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Old    Dennis (denwbaseball)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-09-2007, 6:17 AM Reply   
Ok, so I was thumbing threw my new Overtons and I came across a Bennett Wake Tab, that says you can raise and lower this into the water to determine the size of the wake. I know that this is possible but isn't there some serious risks to your boat if doing this? Has anyone ever used one of these? Does it really work? Give me anything, not really thinking of getting one just curious. Here is the link to the site, this is just one but they have a few different models.

http://www.overtons.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?pdesc=Bennett_X_18_Wake_Tab_18W_x_12D& cname=Trim-Tabs-/-Planing-Accessories&r=view&i=71227&aID=23C
Old    Luciano Grimblat (luchog)      Join Date: Jun 2002       05-09-2007, 6:55 AM Reply   
A trim tab affect boat planning angle, so I Dont think it will affect wake size as much as it will affect shape.

Many pro boat now have this trim tab standart but will call it something else.
Old    Dennis (denwbaseball)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-09-2007, 7:03 AM Reply   
I understand the purpose of a trim tab and what it does and all, but a single tab driving the transome deeper and deeper into the water on just any old boat seems dangerous.
Old    Ken Toby (towboat_222)      Join Date: Feb 2007       05-09-2007, 7:36 AM Reply   
A single trim tab will not pull the transom down. It accually pushes the bow down transom up.
Old    Dennis (denwbaseball)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-09-2007, 7:39 AM Reply   
Hmmm, yea that makes more sense!haha Do you guys think that it could hurt your transom? Or even make the wake bigger. Luciano I know you said it prolly wont make a big difference in size but could it with an I/O with a very very small wake?
Old    Art (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       05-09-2007, 8:03 AM Reply   
No Dennis, that single tab needs a flat section across the center back of the hull like most inboards have and it won't sit well on a V that runs all the way to the stern.

You can get twin tabs for your boat that will help you plane and correct for list but they don't shape the wake as much as trimming your outdrive will.

(Message edited by rallyart on May 09, 2007)
Old    Steve Oh (olskooltige)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-09-2007, 8:13 AM Reply   
The manufacturers that install them usually design the hulls to work with them. Size can change on those hulls by allowing the transom to sit lower in the water, though not as much as ballast will do. They are also very nice at shaping and firming up the wake. A deep v will need two tabs.

(Message edited by Olskooltige on May 09, 2007)
Old    George Aslinger (mobv)      Join Date: Jun 2002       05-09-2007, 8:53 AM Reply   
The Bennet trim tab is what Tige calls taps, Supra calls a wake plate, Centurion and Mastercraft offer on some boats. I have had one on a Moomba and my current Centurion. They help with getting on plane when really loaded, shaping the wake, and eliminating porposing when going cruising. Lots of offshore fishing boats and larger cruisers have trim tabs. They work for purpose of getting on plane or eliminating porposing on just about any boat. They have minimal effect on wake size.
If you look at non-wake boat applications many larger boats have 2 tabs, one on each side, to make the boat ride level.
Old    Steve Oh (olskooltige)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-09-2007, 8:26 PM Reply   
True on all of those except the Tige. TAPs is a combo of the convex hull and the trim tab. The hull by design wants to sit low in the water. The trim tab pushes the bow down when it is lowered. It has a much greater effect on wake size than the other applications listed.
Old    Louis Teague (loux2)      Join Date: May 2004       05-10-2007, 10:31 AM Reply   
I installed one on my 03 X2. The boat had a serious porpoising problem at any speed over 25 mph. When Ski World sold me the boat they told me "other" manufactures have "wake plates" etc. because of poor haul design. They said I did not need one. Well after 3 years of porpoising I asked them to fix the haul. Mastercraft admitted they have had to add more "hook" to the hauls to fix this issue. However, they said my boat was too old. So I installed a Bennett trim tab. Works perfectly. No porpoising what so ever.
Old    Louis Teague (loux2)      Join Date: May 2004       05-10-2007, 11:50 AM Reply   
oppps "hull".
Old    Louis Teague (loux2)      Join Date: May 2004       05-10-2007, 11:53 AM Reply   
Upload}
Old    Nick (nickypoo)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-10-2007, 12:12 PM Reply   
Beyond fixing the porpoising, how do you like having it on there? Have you played with it for wakeboarding and such? I can tell you that after owning a Tige and then being in other boats that don't have a "trim tab", I'll never own a boat without one.
Old    Louis Teague (loux2)      Join Date: May 2004       05-10-2007, 12:51 PM Reply   
Nick,
I love it. I would not own a boat without one either. You can make some adjustments to the wake. I have only had it for a couple of weeks. So I still have experimenting to do. I also like that in the "up" position it does not make contact with the water. So no effect on the wake. Trim down a little and start making adjustments. Pretty cool... I highly recommend it!
P.S.
It only cost $390.00 + $89.00 for the gauge. One day of my labor to install.
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       05-10-2007, 3:07 PM Reply   
Steve, Tigé called their trim tabs TAPS before the convex hulls came out in ~'03. Are you saying you believe the trim tab can increase wake size? Tigé builds nice boats, the newer hulls throw great wakes, and trim tabs are great features on an inboard, but a trim tab can never increase the size of the wake. Tigé's marketing department cannot alter the laws of physics.

Louis, is your hull flat where the tab is mounted? I would love to add one to my VLX, but never have because the hull has a slight curve.
Old    David Bell (dabell)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-10-2007, 3:13 PM Reply   
Just to clarify and put on record..... Straight from the tige website about Taps. No, just even trying to start a fight either. Just making a point.

Upload

(Message edited by dabell on May 10, 2007)
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       05-10-2007, 3:47 PM Reply   
Ah that's right, I forgot they changed the name to TAPS˛. I am not saying anything negative about Tigés, I really like them. I have ridden several pre- and post-convex hulls quite a bit, and the newer boats definitely throw better wakes. I think it has more to do with eliminating the spray pockets than the convex hull, though. The older hulls throw a big wake too, but are very hard to keep clean.
Old    David Bell (dabell)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-10-2007, 3:53 PM Reply   
should have said "no, not trying to start a fight either"

Trace, glad you liked the tige's.
Old    Nick (nickypoo)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-10-2007, 4:13 PM Reply   
Oh boy, people, people, people, this is not a Tige/Taps discusion. This is about the Bennett Wake Tab. The whole Tige/Taps issue just ends up as a pissing match every time. Anybody who wants to get into that needs to start a thread just for it (trust me Dave, it's lame and it won't get you anything besides pissed off).

Moving on,

Right on Lou, glad it worked out for you. I'm really quite surprised it has taken this long for Bennett to jump on the train. I had a seal go out in one my rams last year, no, year before. It was right after my warranty was up on the unit itself. I was totally fine with buying a new one. The guys at Bennett shipped one out the next day and didn't charge me one cent for anything. Super cool people with a great product. Good move.
Old    Nick (nickypoo)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-10-2007, 4:16 PM Reply   
Ohhhh, isn't that sweet, you two kissed and made up before I could post. Way to keep it civil fellas, it usually gets way out of hand.
Old    David Bell (dabell)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-10-2007, 4:20 PM Reply   
Nick, I know it does and try to stay away from the arguing. Each person has their own opinion and wanted to get the facts straight. If they are incorrect, then that's Tige's doing and not mine.... Thanks......

It was fun trace......

Hijack over....
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-10-2007, 4:29 PM Reply   
How does that Bennet trim tab compare to the Power Wedge thing that Malibu is offering now? Wondering if companys will purchase some rights from Malibu and start trying to sell that?
Old    Louis Teague (loux2)      Join Date: May 2004       05-10-2007, 5:22 PM Reply   
Trace,
No it is not flat where I mounted the plate. The hull is concaved on the other side. I had to be really careful when I put the screws in. Totally worth it.
Timmy,
The trim tab does not increase the wake size what so ever. You can shape your wake differently with it, but not increase the size. It absolutely eliminated porpoising in my boat even with 1200 lbs and 5 adults in the boat.
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       05-10-2007, 5:28 PM Reply   
Totally different than the Wedge / Power Wedge. The Wedge is a hydrofoil that extends down into the water about a foot and pulls the back of the boat down. A trim tab basically just extends the running surface of the hull, for more lift and adjusts the attitude of the boat when underway.

I usually avoid these threads too, glad we can all be civil. IMHO, though, Tigé has always been pretty misleading with the whole positioning of the TAPS thing. In addition to telling people they don't need ballast, in the screenshot above they claim that they were a decade ahead of the other mfrs with trim tabs... huh? I know for a fact that Supra has used them for a long time; a buddy had an '87 Comp with a manual trim tab, always been an option on the Launch, etc. Centurion has used them for quite a while too.

Tigé builds great boats, and trim tabs are great options - no need for the hype, or whatever it is.
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       05-10-2007, 5:33 PM Reply   
Louis, what I meant to ask was the bottom / horizontal surface of the hull flat? (not the vertical surface, if that is what you're talking about)

I would love to try mounting one on my VLX - it's always cool to have more tools to tweak the wake and ride quality.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-10-2007, 5:56 PM Reply   
Oh I know that the trim tab doesn't increase wake size but Malibu is claiming that the power wedge thing does.

"Whether you want to soar like an eagle over wakes produced by 1200 pounds of displacement, or test out a new trick with only 400 pounds of displacement, the Power Wedge puts that control squarely in your hands. The automatic hydrofoil can be set to almost any position between stowed and fully engaged to change the size and shape of the wakes to your specifics. The Power Wedge means versatility on demand."

Sorry, that's off-topic... Trim tabs definitely help getting a boat on plane faster, my buddy's all have Baja's that have them and it makes a huge difference on the way they ride, handle and accelerate.
Old    Louis Teague (loux2)      Join Date: May 2004       05-10-2007, 6:12 PM Reply   
Timmy,
Well said.

Trace,
The bottom of the boat (i.e. horizontal surface of the hull) is not flat. It has a hook or concave right at the back of the hull. So as you drill deeper into the back of the boat you have to be careful because you end up in the hook area. I do no think it matters if the vertical area is flat or not. The actuators have some flex to them. I hope I answered your question. Also call Bennett as for Tom McGow. He is the OEM manufacture and will help you through the process.
Old    Louis Teague (loux2)      Join Date: May 2004       05-10-2007, 6:18 PM Reply   
Trace,
just to be clear, the picture in the overtons catalog shows the plate being mounted to the bottom of the boat. If you look at my picture above you will see I mounted mine to the back of the boat. The reason for this is the hull is not flat on the bottom. Maybe this is what you were trying to ask me. Let me know what you think.
Old    Nick (nickypoo)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-10-2007, 6:26 PM Reply   
I would like to say one thing regarding Tige, specifically for trace. I agree 100% with you on Tige's maketing. Being a Tige owner, it bugs the crap out me. For Average Joe Family Guy, an unballasted Tige will probably have enough wake. This is Tige's target market. That's the biggest crowd with the most money. Something to think about. For anyone, anyone, who likes to go somewhat big (which is pretty much any of us here), obviously ballast is a must. Tige makes it sound as if Taps is a replacement for ballast. It aint. IMO, Tige should market their product on their build quality. That's why I bought one in the first place. But what do I know? I'm just another know-it-all boat owner.

Malibu's Wedge and Centurion's Switch Blade both produce bigger wakes. I don't really care for them cause they get in the way of the FAE.
Old    Dave (deltadave)      Join Date: Mar 2005       05-10-2007, 7:23 PM Reply   
Dennis. I would not put a Bennett tab on your boat or a boat that was not designed for a tab. Did you say what type of boat you have? an I/O? If you have an I/O the power trim should work to change the wake shape some. The idea of a tab is to force the bow down. A tab or tabs works well on cruisers or larger I/O boats when the idea is to minimize planning time or level the boat in windy conditions.

It's not going to make the wake larger, it may shape the wake some. The concern, though, is that when you force the bow down on your boat, it may give it strange (and possibly) dangerous handling characteristics, depending on the speed and how far the tab is down. For example, at 30mph with a tab down or partially down, in a turn it could force the bow down even further and cause the boat to pitch and leave you and your passengers in the water. Obviously not desirable. If you have an I/O, you'd be better off adding sacks or weight and possibly a hydro foil on the drive unit, that might help shape the wake.
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       05-11-2007, 6:02 AM Reply   
Louis - that makes sense. You can see the hook if you're standing to the side of the boat looking under it, right? Would it appear flat if you are standing behind the boat? That is where mine is curved. My concern is that it would create a pocket under a flat trim tab.

Nick - thanks for understanding my point. Group hug!
Old    Steve Oh (olskooltige)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-11-2007, 7:56 AM Reply   
And one more note on Tige and TAPs from another Tige owner. TAPs does not make the wake bigger. The non-planing ConvexV hull makes the wake big, TAPs makes it smaller.

(Message edited by Olskooltige on May 11, 2007)
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       05-11-2007, 7:59 AM Reply   
As viewed from behind the boat...

tt
Old    Art (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       05-11-2007, 8:45 AM Reply   
Louis has his mounted well on the back so the mount does not interfere with the waterflow.
Trace, if your hull is curved as in your diagram the tab will still work and the air pocket will not have any great affect. The tab will just start lifting a bit later as you put it down. Also you last water leaving will come from a flat surface instead of a curve so some characteristics of the wake might also change.
Old    Louis Teague (loux2)      Join Date: May 2004       05-11-2007, 8:56 AM Reply   
Art is 100% correct.
Old    Nick (nickypoo)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-11-2007, 9:28 AM Reply   
The best thing about about having a tab on your boat is being able to control the attitude of the boat. Truly a wonderful thing. I am curious to know more about the other builders, besides Tige, that are are putting tabs on their boats. Have they done anything to the shape of the hook or the rest of the running surface to make best use of a tab. I do know that Tige has engineered their hulls to maximize the effect of the tab. Obviously a hook would negate any effect the tab could have once raised above dead horizontal.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-11-2007, 10:09 AM Reply   
Curious here...the Baja's that I mentioned above both have 2 trim tabs, 1 on each side of the curve in the diagram. So instead of putting 1 in the middle, they put 1 on each side. I know they are totally different hull designs and made for different things but how would a ski boat react to those? (not on my boat, I have a Tige RZ2...)

(Message edited by timmyb on May 11, 2007)
Old    Nick (nickypoo)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-11-2007, 10:37 AM Reply   
I've often thought of that Timmy!. It sure would be nice for surfing if you could put one and one down and not have to switch ballast. A complete movable plate in three or so sections across the the entire back of the boat. I'd just like to see what it would do. Anybody out there with a spare boat we could experiment with?
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       05-11-2007, 10:37 AM Reply   
Art - Sanger! Another mfr that's used them on inboards for quite some time. Thanks for the input on the hull question. I've also considered dual tabs, but don't really have good mounting surfaces on my boat for those either. Would be nice for cleaning up unbalanced weight, passengers moving around, maybe help surfing, etc.
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       05-11-2007, 10:38 AM Reply   
Great minds apparently think alike. :-)
Old    Nick (nickypoo)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-11-2007, 10:51 AM Reply   
Lets use your boat trace.

Bitchin profile pic BTW.
Old    Ken Toby (towboat_222)      Join Date: Feb 2007       05-11-2007, 11:07 AM Reply   
They are used totally different on a Baja. The are used to pick the boat out of the water and to keep the bow down in ruff water. With outdrives when you trim drives up it lifts the bow of the boat. Then you use the tabs to lift the transom to make the boat run flat. the lower the speed the less effect. also on Baja the tabs run away from the hull of the boat not with. To make the boat think it is longer.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-11-2007, 11:58 AM Reply   
Ahhh, good info! Thanks!
Old    Art (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       05-11-2007, 12:37 PM Reply   
Volvo make a QL trim tab that is really different. I don't know of anyone who has run in though.
http://www.qlmarine.com/ql.asp

Sanger has a plate that runs from the back of the hull, like a cavitation plate. It gets removed and their trim tab mounts in the same location. No change to the hull.
Old    Nick (nickypoo)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-11-2007, 1:53 PM Reply   
It's a little vague on how exactly it works. Almost looks like a vertical blade that gets either retracted or deployed. Am I close?
Old    Art (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       05-11-2007, 3:22 PM Reply   
Yep, it builds a high pressure wedge in front of the vertical plate that drops down which lifts the stern in the same way that a regular tab does.
They say, ( not that the manufacturer might have a bias), that it creates less drag. I just know it doesn't stick out.
Old    Nick (nickypoo)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-11-2007, 4:27 PM Reply   
Huh. How would that not cause more drag? Seems like it would cause a ton of spray as well. Weird.
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       05-11-2007, 4:53 PM Reply   
I forget who it was, but someone on WW posted pics a few years ago of a Wedge-like adaptation on his trim tab. It was basically a little wing that stuck down from the tab on 2 or 3 standoffs. Anyone else remember that?

Thanks on the profile pic. Headed back there in two weeks. I have gone every year since 2002.

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