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Old    Cliff (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       04-30-2007, 9:38 AM Reply   
rode behind a brand new Xstar on a private lake this weekend
that is an awesome boat..........
......fantastic wake.....

but, it sure does seem like it takes alot of extra weight to get such an awesome wake

......don't ask how much,cause I don't know...

seems like ... for the money you pay...Mastercraft would add more factory ballast so you don't have'ta have bags in the isle, under the seats, and in the lockers
but, I love the boat

......can't wait to get my 2007 VLX :-)
any week now
Old    Caleb Rountree (dlwsrider)      Join Date: Apr 2007       04-30-2007, 9:48 AM Reply   
i think that mastercrafts are grossly over priced personally, but hey, if you have the money im not stopping you
Old    Tickle (showtime)      Join Date: Nov 2005       04-30-2007, 9:49 AM Reply   
i agree, to me it's just like an older mari-star...huge and have to add tons.. i was not impressed at all w/ the stock wake... but sacked out it is ridiculous, along w/ most boats today....
Old    Dennis (denwbaseball)      Join Date: Apr 2007       04-30-2007, 10:18 AM Reply   
Wait so your saying that this boat isn't worth that kind of money!hahaha I just saw this thing and had to post it!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2005-Mastercraft-X-80-STS_W0QQitemZ120113405925QQihZ002QQcategoryZ63686Q QrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       04-30-2007, 10:23 AM Reply   
That's just the way it is with a bigger boat. If you want to add less weight, go with a 21 foot.

We have a 2007 Xstar now. Previously we had two 2005 X2s. The difference in the amount of weight we run is only 500-800 pounds (more in the Xstar), for a bigger boat. The payoff is much more wake. Not necessarily height, but just mass in general. There's a lot more ramp, and you can charge in without getting tripped up. I'm loving it.

Anyway, it seems like the industry is defnitely going towards bigger boats, so the amount of weight we have to add is increasing.

The only stock wake that is rideable imo is the VLX which has an advantage with the Wedge.

The Epic is good stock (I hear), but the amount of stock ballast is more than most poeple run in their Xstars.
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       04-30-2007, 10:28 AM Reply   
Yeah..... The stock wake isn't anything to write home about, but I disagree that you have to add a ton to get a great wake. I gues my idea of a ton may be different from a lot of folks, but we've got a killer wake out of our '07 by adding a 550 to each rear compartment and another thousand of lead spread around the boat. That's 2k of additional ballast on top of the factory ballast and it's big and meaty. We used to add almost the same amount to our old X1/X2 to get a wake that was good, but not quite this good.

Like I said though.... It's all relative. It seems like nobody rides behind a boat that has less than 3k in ballast these days.

IMO... The price of all boats is obscene today.... I like some of the nice little add-ons that MC does to make their boats worth it. The dash's are really nice, swiveling/clamping board racks are sweet, the bimini's work great, the ladder and anchor holder in the front of the boat is really convenient when you have a big crowd.

I remember thinking the X-star was a joke when it first came out. Now I'm wondering why we took so long to get one. The wake is absolutely amazing and the interior/seating keeps a huge crowd happy.
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       04-30-2007, 10:29 AM Reply   
Ha, ha.... Looks like Jarrod and I were typing at the same time. LOL!!
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       04-30-2007, 10:30 AM Reply   

quote:

By C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod) on Monday, April 30, 2007 - 10:23 am:

The Epic is good stock (I hear), but the amount of stock ballast is more than most poeple run in their Xstars.





here's the stock epic wake.

Upload
Upload
Upload


the xstar is definitely a sick wake, once additional weight is added. i believe over 200lbs is added to my friend's boat. how much more weight are you adding on top of stock, jrod?
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       04-30-2007, 10:37 AM Reply   
Joe.... Like I said, We're running around 2k extra. That still leaves us around 1k short of what's in a Epic. I wish we had a pic of Jim Aikens behind our boat this weekend. We were laughing because the wake was waist high.

Big block to Big block... I think we should have a wake showdown at Spring Ride. LOL!! The Epic definitely brings the meat. These are two boats that move a lot of water.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       04-30-2007, 10:51 AM Reply   
The Epic wake looks very different from anything else. It's crazy how it goes from nothing to big and steep in what seems like just a few feet. It looks like you can have rampy OR steep just by adjusting your rope length. That can probably be said for any boat, but more so on the Epic from the pitures I've seen.
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       04-30-2007, 11:01 AM Reply   
Heck this past weekend at our tournament we added 4k to a Tige 24ve. At 3k it was still in need. At 4k it was pretty sweet. Huge boats need a ridiculous amount of weight, its just the way it is. Besides, after you stack the X-star, its hard to argue with the quality of that wake, big & meaty! It's funny, having ridden the new 210, the old 210, the VLX, LSV, 24SSV, X-Star, X-1, they all throw up bangin wakes! Some are different but I can ride & enjoy each and every one! Boat wars are silly...sink it & enjoy!!!
Old    Cliff (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       04-30-2007, 11:09 AM Reply   
for the record
I wasn't slammin the Xstar, or saying the VLX is better
just sayin I really enjoyed the pull behind it, and...making an observation about the amount of weight added

you guys are correct in that the bigger boats need more weight
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       04-30-2007, 11:19 AM Reply   
I definitely agree with Heavy... Sink it and enjoy. There are soo many good wakes out there. A lot of boats are underrated (some overrated). The new boats move an amazing amount of water. The wakes are definitely bigger and harder than ever, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's what you need to progress.
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       04-30-2007, 11:20 AM Reply   
BTW.... That butter pic with the Epic makes me want to go ride. Summertime here we come.
Old    M.K (mkrueger313)      Join Date: Jan 2007       04-30-2007, 11:32 AM Reply   
For sure evan!! I have to wait 18 more days then fianls are done and I get to go play with my Mobius' ballast/wake.
Old    Byrd (byrd)      Join Date: Dec 2005       04-30-2007, 11:54 AM Reply   
After a while, you will add weight to your new VLX as well...
Old    Mark Fletcher (fletch_tx)      Join Date: Aug 2003       04-30-2007, 12:14 PM Reply   
are the newer X-Stars side to side sensitive when you're running a lot of weight? My #1 gripe about my 05 SAN...even though I love it...is how sensitive it is when people move around the boat. I keep a couple pop bags in the main passenger area to keeps things balanced...

CIE guys - would that 1K of lead be easy to replace with ballast bags? or would you be eating up a ton of storage space? would it be difficult to plumb those sacs in given the storage it has...?

(Message edited by fletch_tx on April 30, 2007)
Old    Billy (woreout)      Join Date: Aug 2006       04-30-2007, 12:21 PM Reply   
Cliff did you ride the XStar stock?
It does sound like you were trying to start off with a nice intro about the XStar and then work your way into bashing MC and promoting your new BU. When you get the new VLX you may want to add weight but first you should put some "Ballast" pumps in it, instead of the "Livewell" pumps that come stock with BU.
I think the ironic thing is we all(including myself) complain about stock wakes, but in reality the stock wake is more than enough for the level of most riders.
Old    Ron (ronnyboy27)      Join Date: Nov 2005       04-30-2007, 12:34 PM Reply   
I have an 04 X2 and the stock wake is fine. I can't do half of what I've seen others do behind my boat. I think it is more about the rider than about the boat (or wake).
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       04-30-2007, 12:35 PM Reply   
Mark.... it's worlds different from a SAN. I love the SAN's and think that the wake is great, but I really don't like how sensitive they are. The X-star takes full size adults to throw it off, and you have to move from one side of the boat all the way to the other. On the SAN's I've ridden if you move 10" the wake changes. We still leave a little bit of lead sitting on the floor for some wake shaping, but we rarely need to move it.

You can definitely trade the lead for water. Flyhigh makes custom sacks that can be plummed in under the front seats and eliminate the need for lead. We rarely tow the boat, so we opt for lead instead of water because of how little space it takes up, but water works just as well. Trust me.... even with sacks under the front seats you'll still have plenty of storage. The area under the seats in the boat and the back compartments are huge.

Billy: I agree. When people ask me why MC doesn't put bigger ballast in their boats to start with my usual we reply is that we're the minority in terms of ballast desires. Most people would just hurt themselves with 3k in ballast. The average family flips the switches, fills the ballast, then rides at 20 mph on a 60' rope. It's more than enough for that. They usually don't even ride fast enough for the wake to clean up if they were running the kind of ballast we run.
Old    Jim Aikins (ccryder)      Join Date: Apr 2002       04-30-2007, 12:43 PM Reply   
Waist high is all relative, I am a bit shorter than you Evan, LOL. Regardless, it was like going for a ride at an amusement park hitting the wake. I think the key like you mentioned to decent fuel economy is having the big block so it is not working so hard and the ballast to HP is a pretty good trade off. Thanks again for the pull.
Old    Aaron (aarond0083)      Join Date: Apr 2007       04-30-2007, 12:46 PM Reply   
I agree with Billy. I run my 2007 SAN 210 with stock ballast and 80 lbs. of lead under the front bow cushion. 1000 lbs. of ballast plus another 800-900 lbs. with four or five guys in the boat. The wake has plenty of size and would be more than plenty for the majority of riders. Keep in mind we're talking about a 21 foot boat. When I start coming close to landing TS 9's I'll add another thousand pounds of ballast.
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       04-30-2007, 12:47 PM Reply   
That's why I wanted to get a pic with you riding next to it. In relative terms it was the biggest looking wake I've ever seen. Ha, ha, ha...

I do think the big block helps. The boat gets on plane soo effortlessly. We haven't had it for long enough to really get a handle on it, but it seems like it's getting right around the same economy as our X2's with the MCX motor. We're actually going to try a bigger prop, too. It's got horsepower to burn.

See you at Spring Ride, Jim...
Old    Mark Fletcher (fletch_tx)      Join Date: Aug 2003       04-30-2007, 1:20 PM Reply   
let's see that pic! :-)
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       04-30-2007, 1:25 PM Reply   
Stock wakes can be fun, but lets face it, 80 feet of rope, 3000 pounds, and 24-25 mph is just WAY more fun!
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       04-30-2007, 1:58 PM Reply   
To be fair to the epic with 4000 pounds of ballast it is 1000 pounds lighter than a x-star due to the construction.

I love big meaty wakes but with the cost of gas here and the amount we ride I don't think I would be able to keep a consistant crew charging what I need to to run a big boat. I did a few sets behind a weighted up VLX and the wake was kickin but the gas worked out to be $30 a set! In contrast our slammed 20 foot boat costs $10-12 a set to run. That adds up quick if you do 4-5 sets a weekend.
Old    Big Ed (big_ed_x2)      Join Date: Jul 2004       04-30-2007, 2:48 PM Reply   

quote:

I remember thinking the X-star was a joke when it first came out. Now I'm wondering why we took so long to get one. The wake is absolutely amazing and the interior/seating keeps a huge crowd happy.




You guys used to tell me I was on CRACK.


Glad you guys are enjoying your new boat.
Old    Andrew Moreton (andrew_moreton)      Join Date: Feb 2003       04-30-2007, 6:48 PM Reply   
Flaming our boat, Cliff??? Just kidding, hope you enjoyed the lesson and let me know if you need any more lessons or anything else. Hope Sasser taught you something.

Andrew
Sasser Wakeboard School
Old    Cliff (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       04-30-2007, 7:44 PM Reply   
Ha
no, Andrew I love that boat.
can't wait to go out again Sunday morning.
felt like i pissed Brian off 'cause I went with the VLX instead of an X15...but I can't wait to get my boat.
as you and Brian both know....both boats are well beyond my skill level
.........but the 11 year old kiddo is movin up fast
Old    Andrew Moreton (andrew_moreton)      Join Date: Feb 2003       04-30-2007, 8:29 PM Reply   
Well you can't really go wrong with a X-15 or a VLX from TXMC or WSA here in Dallas. Both great boats and both great dealerships. We'll get you to switch over to the A-Team next time around!
Old    Mark (mofreestyle)      Join Date: Jan 2006       04-30-2007, 9:15 PM Reply   
Evan,
How are you guys weighting your star? Trying to figure how much extra ballast I want to add. Thanks.
Old    Alex Hamrick (lfboardboomer)      Join Date: Nov 2006       05-01-2007, 4:36 AM Reply   
We run our 07 SANTE with the stock ballast, then 300 in lead up front, a 600 pound fatsack in the center on top of floor, and then 300 on each side of the motor in the lockers. The wake is very firm and fairly large and alot more like the X-Star than the old Super Air.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       05-01-2007, 7:22 AM Reply   
Mark, Look above for your answer.
Old    C.I.E... AL Bischofbee (allen)      Join Date: Apr 2005       05-02-2007, 8:56 AM Reply   
IT's bigest, hardest wake I have ever hit. But I only got to hit it three times then I broke my damb leg. HAHAHA

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