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Old    Joe Pinkston (dtownwakeboard)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-13-2007, 10:00 PM Reply   
With this new onslaught of the close toe binding in wakeboarding also comes a rumor that people's feet jam in close toes. Ive never had this happen and want to shut this rumor down. SO who loves their close toes? and who has jammed their feet in them. I know the toe lift is a myth but they are a lot more comfy than traditional open toes so lets hear what yall think about close toes
Old    gimp990 (gimp990)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-13-2007, 10:14 PM Reply   
I love mine. I will never ride open toe again, not even on my roam or my scurfer. I have never jammed my toes. My feet never go sleep. My feet never move. Like i siad in a previous post i think that the people who jammed their toes were ridding bindings that were to big for them. I wear a 10 shoe so i ordered my bindings in a size 9-10 and they fit perfect. I have had two pairs of the same brand and they both fit the same so i know that the sizes are consistent. I got them as small i could ride and still be comfy. So if you have ever jammed your toes then how much bigger were your bindings from your normal shoe size?
Old    Rich (rson)      Join Date: Jun 2002       04-13-2007, 10:44 PM Reply   
mYTH....
Old    Nick Jackson (kkong72)      Join Date: Apr 2007       04-14-2007, 5:32 AM Reply   
time to call myth busters!
Old    Bill Montanye (bill)      Join Date: Feb 2001       04-14-2007, 6:23 AM Reply   
JOE its NOT a RUMOR its happened to at least three people i personally ride with and know..

It happened to me three times in one week..My big toe was bloody under the nail and i had to wear a splint with sport tape to hold it on in order to keep riding.I loved the comfort but i jammed my big toe on more then one occasion in the shanes.

It was weird it didn't happen the first month or so riding but as soon as i hit a slump riding and was wrecking in weird positions on crows and landing sliding hard in between a crow front and slamming the back edge into the water thern sliding forward the toe jammed VERY hard ..

NOT a rumor my nail was black and blue for months after..

also on other occasions where it didnt slam it actually bumped here and there but that wasnt a big deal..

read the FN posts before you say it rumors when people are coming on here and saying it HAS happened to them ,how about it this it can happen but its not widespread and a personal choice on whether or not to wear them or not..

to each their own bro but this was stupid post since there are many posts about people it HAS happened too.

OH and while i'm at it the shanes also took forever to dry out and started smelling ,also not a rumor and also after a crash sometimes the water wouldn't drain fast and it felt like i was wearing a weight around my ankle so that also not a rumor either!..

im sure these things improve as each year goes by but in the short term it has happened and can happen..
Old    Bill Montanye (bill)      Join Date: Feb 2001       04-14-2007, 6:26 AM Reply   
gimp i wear a 9.5 shoe sometimes but a ten in most high end tennis shoes so explain why my shane 9-10s were too big??

BTW have you tried to put on the 7-9 watson/shanes with a 9.5/10 foot ??its nearly impossible so whats your solution OH Binding Guru??

they fit perfect and yet on big knarly crash in the flats i jammed my toe,yes i said it rumor about the rumor squashed ...

(Message edited by bill on April 14, 2007)
Old    English (kristian)      Join Date: Nov 2002       04-14-2007, 7:49 AM Reply   
I dont mean to product bash here but any incident of serious "toe jam" I've heard of has always been from the 2006 Shanes. It just might be how those were made. I've never heard it from Ronix, HL or the 2007 LF stuff. It was the first year with the close toe for LF and it might of been a slight flaw in design which they appear to have fixed with their new product.

Feel free to chime in if its happened to you with any other bindings.

Personally I've taken the Ronix Scouts and Cells through hell and have never remotely jammed a toe and I simply cant see it happening with the way they fit. I really like close toe now.
Old    Corn Holio (thedangcorn)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-14-2007, 8:52 AM Reply   
Closed toe boots are a breeding ground for fungus and bacteria. Can you say black mold? I'd say mushrooms but some of y'all will get excited.
Old    Air Again (airagain)      Join Date: Jun 2006       04-14-2007, 8:53 AM Reply   
I have the Ronix Ones and I have been riding them for the last 5 days. The closed toe is the natural evolution of the equipment. Original wake board bindings were adapted from water ski equipment. My old Hyperlite Splits look very similar to the bindings on my slalom ski. I never did get huge air or do any of the things I do on my wakeboard on my ski. The difference is like playing basketball in some really good basketball shoes or playing in a pair of sandals. The closed toe just lends itself to a more athletic feel. Not to say that people have not jammed their toes.
But remember, people also have also jammed their feet right through the front of open toes. No design is perfect in all regards...just better then the last one.
Old    scott firman (mucktoerider)      Join Date: Jan 2007       04-14-2007, 9:02 AM Reply   
Ronix is treated with a solution to keep anything funky from growing in your boots. You can buy the spray and retreat them every so often. I would recommend doing this for any closed toe.
Old    innov8actionsports.com            04-14-2007, 9:08 AM Reply   
So Air Again are you saying that closed toe bindings are new to wakeboarding and we have never had a closed toe binding in wakeboarding?
Old    gimp990 (gimp990)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-14-2007, 9:20 AM Reply   
Bill i have the 06 shanes, in fact i have two pairs and they both fit the same. How tight were you tightening them. I pull mine as tight is they will go. I dont like my foot to move at all, I like them to stay on my feet in fall. Do you keep them lose where you can come out of them in a fall? I have heard someone say that they have jammed their toes by doing that. But i guess they are like every first year bindings which will have kinks until they work them out. As for the water staying in them i just turn my board upside down on the racks where the water will drain out ankle opening. I also have a boot drier that I will put in them when i get done for the day for about and hour to dry them out.
Old    Air Again (airagain)      Join Date: Jun 2006       04-14-2007, 9:27 AM Reply   
Jeff,

No, I am not saying that there has never been a closed toe before. I am saying that the current designs seem to work. In particular using heat etc. to fit the bindings much like a snow ski boot. I see
that as a move forward in the evolution of the equipment. Also, function is something
that is purely subjective. My opinions are about my experiences. Yours and others may be different.
Old    Joe Pinkston (dtownwakeboard)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-14-2007, 10:46 AM Reply   
Bill,
Sorry this post is "stupid". Im just trying to see if it happens to a lot of people or just a few. I dont see how this post is stupid because it lets people know wats up with closetoes. But to each his own. I agree that some people dont size right and that is what is messing them up
Old    Phantom (phantom5815)      Join Date: Jul 2002       04-14-2007, 11:16 AM Reply   
I was wondering about the aroma of closed toes after they've been exposed to the elements. So do your feet smell skanky too?
Thanks for the feedback.
Old    gimp990 (gimp990)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-14-2007, 11:21 AM Reply   
Mine still smell like brand new and i have had then for over a year. They have not molded at all. I keep mine dry.
Old    innov8actionsports.com            04-14-2007, 11:33 AM Reply   
Gimp I think Bill knows what hes talking about the guy can ride and yes he does know how to tighten up his bindings, trust me.
Old    gimp990 (gimp990)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-14-2007, 1:25 PM Reply   
I know that. I was only asking him if he likes to keep them where he can come out of them on a fall.
Old    Leo Lasecki (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       04-14-2007, 1:55 PM Reply   
For the people who say that it is a myth, what is your riding level? I hate to say it, but unless you are advanced/pro, how do you know if you will jam your foot on a binding? When I was first learning frontrolls, I had my foot go straight through a binding. It was very painful and I thought we were going to have to get scissors to cut the binding off. That was 3 years ago. What would have happened if I was wearing Closed toe bindings? Maybe a few broken toes. I am not saying that I am a pro, but I am saying that unless you are an advanced rider, you probably wont ever experience any of the problems of those people who are jamming their toes.
Old    Bill Montanye (bill)      Join Date: Feb 2001       04-14-2007, 4:06 PM Reply   
Leo thanks i forgot to say that,so true..

until you take some weird falls off some inverts or spins where your not in control of some backrail edge landing with immediate forward push you wont know whats up with close toes..yea Fronts are well known for pushing your foot out the front of bindings..

i wasnt awake fully yet anyway so sorry joe/gimp if it came out wrong ,i was just adding my two cents..

Yes i am a believer in tightening the laces as tight as i can get them so that wasnt it..

I tend to agree maybe the shanes had some issues in 06 and they were the first to get theres out and maybe now after some feedback..

I really liked the close toes but improvements were needed before ill throw them on again but i will for sure..

I am now riding 06 watsons since october 06 and have been very happy with them so i maty try some ronix or new ct watsons later in the summer..

thanks Jeff :-)
Old    gimp990 (gimp990)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-14-2007, 5:09 PM Reply   
Man its no problem.
Yea Leo I agree with you to.
I still havent done it though.
Old    Chase Andrew (wakeboardnut)      Join Date: Jul 2006       04-14-2007, 5:27 PM Reply   
closed toe FTW
Old    soulrider (projectely4)      Join Date: Apr 2003       04-14-2007, 5:33 PM Reply   
i think any one that is jamming their toes on closed toes just isn't wearing the right size or maybe you didn't find the right boot that fits your foot well. i have shanes and ronix cells and they both fit snug and perfect and i will never ride open toe again, but i have also tried Hyperlite 3ds and they just didn't fit right and i tried multiple sizes but the murrays i tried once fit very well.
Old    Corn Holio (thedangcorn)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-14-2007, 11:59 PM Reply   
toe fungus rocks
Old    schooledrider (rmcronin)      Join Date: Aug 2002       04-15-2007, 9:01 AM Reply   
Shapiro could ride with bungee heel straps better than I'll ever be able to dream of. Breaking out the old vids is always enough to convince me not to fall for the latest product hype.
Old    mike (wakeboarddad01)      Join Date: Dec 2003       04-15-2007, 10:12 AM Reply   
My daughter has the 2007 3d's and never had a problem with jammed toes.... She has more water time than most of the guys that post on here.... The boots from hyperlite are quality and hold up very well... Would suggest them....
Old    M.K (mkrueger313)      Join Date: Jan 2007       04-15-2007, 12:05 PM Reply   
ive jammed my toes in watsons before.... IT IS NOT A MYTH OR A RUMOR!!! The bindings fit my foot perfectly and I came around late on a hs bs 3 and my toes slammed into the closed toe.. very painful!!

Closed toe boots are a gimmick. Everyone keeps talking about how they want lighter gear, so why do you buy the boot with extra crap on it? I do not think that there is any extra added value besides keeping your toes out of the wind. Its just another reason to tack on an extra $50 to the price!!!

I havent had a chance to ride any closed toe bindings this year yet but hopefully the design was changed. However, I am still not a believer in closed toe bindings. OPEN TOE BINDINGS I WONT ABANDON YOU!!}
Old    Joe Pinkston (dtownwakeboard)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-15-2007, 4:59 PM Reply   
Leo,
i dont wanna brag but i can throw a good number of inverts and spin to win and ive never had problems with mine i had 3ds last year and cells this year. But it would make since on wierd falls that ur toes would jam, but i dont want people to stray away from close toes just because they jam sometimes on wierd falls i mean u said your self that your foot can go through a open toe so either way your screwed why not be more comfy?
Old    max luna (lfshane132)      Join Date: Jan 2007       04-16-2007, 7:04 AM Reply   
yea i got 06 shanes and i can throw the basic inverts and 3s but never jammed my toe.
Old    scott firman (mucktoerider)      Join Date: Jan 2007       04-16-2007, 7:32 AM Reply   
If I jam my toes real bad on my Cells this year. I will just convert to wakeskate. No jammed toes from closed toe bindings. And no rip thru on an open toe binding. There is the solution. Everyone will be wakeskating.
Old    Matt (devilshaircut29)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-16-2007, 8:16 AM Reply   
The only benefit I see to the closed toe bindings is keeping your feet warm for winter riding. I ride straight up Ultra's and couldn't be happier. They keep my feet in place, come off when they need to, are nice and comfy, and, most importantly, are the lightest bindings on the market. I have to admit, the closed toe 3DS bindings I rode kept my feet nice and warm, but they were also super stiff. Idk if that is just the 3DS ones, but I really didn't like that about them.
Old    Caleb Rountree (dlwsrider)      Join Date: Apr 2007       04-16-2007, 9:24 AM Reply   
ive taken some pretty nasty falls in my Ronix ones and ive never jammed my toes, or even had them hit the end for that matter.

and my bindings are a perfect fit.
Old    Joe Pinkston (dtownwakeboard)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-16-2007, 9:25 AM Reply   
matt the 3ds are made to be stiff try out some ones or murrays. I think just to be safe you should try on some ones and i think you will probably walk out the store with them
Old    Jeremy Byrom (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       04-16-2007, 11:28 AM Reply   
FULL TILT CAME OUT WITH THE FIRST CLOSED TOES EVER BACK IN THE 90's CALLED THE SUB ROSA. they produced it for two years and then what happened???? They went out of buisness yup... but i guess technology has gotten better and has made it better... i could compare it all to the multi fin to single fin to multi fin design history circle.... Upload
Upload
Old    Jeremy Byrom (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       04-16-2007, 11:29 AM Reply   
still havnt tried em on the water so my comments are mostly limmited to philosophy news and these pics
Old    Erik Jernberg (juniorhawk)      Join Date: Jul 2004       04-16-2007, 11:31 AM Reply   
I don't understand how there is even room for argument in this matter.

If you ride in a way that causes your foot to occasionally protrude out the front of your boots after a fall, then yes, in truth, you will eventually break or jam your toes if you switch to closed toe boots. Thats just a simple fact.

I rarely fall that way - and "jam" my heels in such a way that winds up pushing my toes out the front of my Liquid Force Exos. Now, my best friend rides a pair of Belmont bindings and has at least one fall like that per session. He would never even consider a pair of closed toe boots - and despite the fact that I rarely fall in a way that pushes my toes out the front of my bindings, it has happened, nor would I. Thus there is NO WAY I would consider a pair of closed toe bindings and I think they are one of the stupider R&D choices I have seen in recent years from this industry. It adds to the reason why I have 4 pairs of Exos, and one more set that could be assembled from spare parts. I keep 1 pair on the board, a backup pair in the boat, and 2 pairs stored in a cedar closet, and a basket of parts for emergencies. The year after I made that investment, Liquid Force started making closed toe boots and nixed the Exo altogether.

Sorry for the rant - but yes - the answer is your toes are considerably more breakable in closed toe boots. Period. If you land heel-heavy and fall the way that causes this jamming I speak of, then absolutely.

(Message edited by juniorhawk on April 16, 2007)
Old    Brett Van Hemmen (bvanhemmen)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-16-2007, 11:51 AM Reply   
I don't see why everyone is so worked up about closed toes breaking your toes. Ever notice how snowboard boots are all closed toe? you don't have a choice. and how many times do you hear of people breaking toes in them? If i had the money i for sure would buy closed toes since with living in canada snowboarding is more natural up here and therefore i would feel more at home with a snowboard style boot.
Old    M.K (mkrueger313)      Join Date: Jan 2007       04-16-2007, 9:25 PM Reply   
quote:

Ever notice how snowboard boots are all closed toe? you don't have a choice.


Is it just me or is that not the dumbest thing I have ever heard? Hahah- you could choose to cut the toes out and get frost bite if you so choose
Old    Justin (jusstty)      Join Date: Dec 2006       04-16-2007, 9:32 PM Reply   
I love my Cells and have never jammed my foot in them. The end
Old    Timothy (timmy)      Join Date: Jul 2001       04-16-2007, 9:47 PM Reply   
snowbard boots are made out of different materials, that are not flexible and don't let your feet pop out.

people ride them for style
Old    Brett Van Hemmen (bvanhemmen)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-16-2007, 10:30 PM Reply   
mike k. how is that the dumbest thing you've ever heard. is it not the truth? and for the record, why are you askin a question if thats the dumbest thing you've ever heard. how would i know, now to me that is one of the dumbest things i've ever READ.
I don't see how different materials really makes a difference here? how does your feet popping out have anything to do with materials, or jamming your toes for that matter?
Old    Timothy (timmy)      Join Date: Jul 2001       04-16-2007, 11:19 PM Reply   
if the materials are flexible, the material will stretch more, potentially allowing your toes to move forward more easily. not that difficult of a concept
Old    scott firman (mucktoerider)      Join Date: Jan 2007       04-17-2007, 5:20 AM Reply   
Ronix worked with snowboard boot designers and intution who makes the liners for snowboard companies and now Ronix wakeboard boots. I read this early on with a review of square one and Ronix. The Cells are a stiffer boot. As for the Ones and the Scout, not really sure. I heard they are not as stiff. No one so far has made the comment that they jammed their toes in the Ronix brand yet. So maybe they they solved the problem. Looking at the Shanes, the Murray's, the 3DS...I have noticed they seem to not fit close around the toes when trying them on. The boot material is not as rigid as the Ronix around the toe area either. The Ronix Cells before heated fit snug to the toes. After heated, are molded to my toes. So maybe this is the answer for future closed toe products. No movement inside the boot equals no jammed toes. Would not be the first time Paul O'Brien added innovation the sport. If this is the case, I bet you will see more heat molded inserts next season. I promise you my friends, if I jam my toe in my Cell's, I will post it here and with pictures to prove it. All I can say is, try some on, they are very nice.
Old    Brett Van Hemmen (bvanhemmen)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-17-2007, 9:08 AM Reply   
tim. you snowboard? if you do you will notice that snowboard boots are not so stiff you can't move your foot around. if the closed toes are so pliable that you can move your foot around in them, then wouldn't that be a pretty clear sign that you should stay away from them if you are that worried about jamming your toes a bit? either way this is one of those online discussions that doesn't make a difference at all. if you like the boots use them, if you are worried you may ruin your pedicure then don't buy them. that is all
Old    wakejjboard12            04-17-2007, 9:34 AM Reply   
love my '06 murray's. never jammed.
Old    Robin (robin_holland)      Join Date: May 2006       04-17-2007, 1:26 PM Reply   
I think it is the truth and a myth. I use LF Ultra's and me foot slide forward when I jump really big! So if you land nasty, your foot can slide forward, also with a close toe if they are to big. But that you can break your toes is very unlikely. So just buy the right size!
Old    Matt (devilshaircut29)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-18-2007, 8:36 AM Reply   
What benefits do closed toe bindings have over open toe? This is just out of curiousity because I haven't heard what they are yet. Is it just a comfort factor?
Old    Joe Pinkston (dtownwakeboard)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-18-2007, 6:32 PM Reply   
yea its straight comfort because they dont have any pressure points like some open toes and they keep your feet warm but that usually doesnt matter
Old    gimp990 (gimp990)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-18-2007, 7:20 PM Reply   
They have better foot hold IMO.
Old    Randy Scagliotti (wakedad33)      Join Date: Oct 2005       04-18-2007, 7:34 PM Reply   
My son has been riding the Murrays for two years and never has jambed his toes (and he's taken some nasty crashes) he loves them.
Old    Michael ImObersteg (kickflip_mj)      Join Date: Apr 2007       04-23-2007, 6:59 PM Reply   
im not so sure i like closed to bindings because i cant tell when im getting a crappy toside cut or if the driver has slowed down, with open toe when the boat slows you can feel the difference... wired i guess.lol
Old    Justin Rodier (jwr)      Join Date: Jan 2006       04-23-2007, 7:56 PM Reply   
One difference that has been over looked is the warmth factor, it does make a conciderable difference when you are trying to get out in the late or early season, it can make the difference of freezing cold and numb toes and a 5 min. set versus functional toes and more time on the water. We have ridden in some nasty conditions, and I would go closed toe for the reason above. I've been riding mine since july and like them much better than what i've ridden before. And I'm going to be in some Ronix cells pretty soon!
Old    Leo Lasecki (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       04-23-2007, 8:12 PM Reply   
Also, think of the dynamics of snowboarding. Cutting into the wake TS comes nowhere near to hitting a slope. The angles are all different. In snowboarding, all of the force is put on the sides of your foot. In wakeboarding on a TS frontroll, all your motion is in the direction of your toes. So no, you wont jam you toes in snowboard bindings unless you catch the worst edge of your life.
Old    calder billhardt (longlakerider)      Join Date: Mar 2007       04-25-2007, 3:07 PM Reply   
leo, i think your a little mixed up. the angles in snowboarding are a little diffrent but pressure isn't put on the sides of your feet its put on your heels or your toes depending on which side your edging on

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