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Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       04-12-2007, 4:11 PM Reply   
Had Mike make us up a custom Composite X. Air brushed and bagged. I like the 'sort of' ghosted skulls on the tail.

What do you think, James? Sweet, huh?

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Old    wardovision (caskimmer)      Join Date: Apr 2006       04-12-2007, 4:21 PM Reply   
Looks like a pretty good copy a Walzer board to me.
Old    wardovision (caskimmer)      Join Date: Apr 2006       04-12-2007, 4:22 PM Reply   
Innovation through imitation?
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       04-12-2007, 4:33 PM Reply   
At least flattery! :-) Like I've stated before, the Walzer 1" is the finest wakesurfer I've ever ridden.

When are you going to offer custom airbrushing Sean? The one thing that Mike has on everyone else is the artwork.
Old    wardovision (caskimmer)      Join Date: Apr 2006       04-12-2007, 4:41 PM Reply   
trying to copy someone else's designs isn't flattery and exactly what patents are being filed?

(Message edited by caskimmer on April 12, 2007)
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       04-12-2007, 6:53 PM Reply   
As we've discussed Sean, the man to talk to about all those issues is Mike.

I still think the airbrushing is sick. :-)
Old    along (awl)      Join Date: Feb 2006       04-12-2007, 7:14 PM Reply   
Are the inserts asymetrical for a reason or is that an oops? It maybe be the photo but the insert on the right looks higher and angled a little different than the left.
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       04-12-2007, 7:27 PM Reply   
I don't have the board in hand, so it could BE! :-) Dennis, you have the board, are the fin boxes out of alignment or is it just standing on an angle?
Old    Dennis (dennish)      Join Date: May 2005       04-12-2007, 9:28 PM Reply   
Just an optical illusion.
Old    SCoffin (critter)      Join Date: Oct 2004       04-13-2007, 8:04 AM Reply   
OMG!!! I can't believe this. So it OK to steal an idea or design, becuase he has better art work. So this sport is already becoming ugly before it gets the reconized by board makers. THIS SUCKS!!!!!!!
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       04-13-2007, 9:15 AM Reply   
In this picture, you can see the Walzer at the far right. The Composite X prototype is the black one second from the left.

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It's a little hard to see, but the differences between the boards is rather significant. I had to check them last night. Now, I still have yet to see the board pictured above in person, but from the prototype the differences between the Composite X and the Walzer, minimally are:

Nose outline and hip - they match at the pin - as does virtually every other board
Nose & tail rocker
Length
Width
Thickness
Rail shape (Composite X is 60/40)
Fin placement, including toe-in.
It would also appear the materials used in construction are different as the Walzer is about 1/2 the weight.

About the only thing the two boards share is the use of the C5 boxes. Which is a commodity through Futures Ocean Air. It was certainly an innovation associated with Walzer, but...if the use of commonly available fin boxes was considered theft or stealing then every single wakesurfer would be guilty of that, right? Shouldn't there be some outrage at Shred Stixx and Inland for using the standard Futures boxes, or Shoreline for using FCS's? Really, even the Walzer would be guilty of stealing the idea from quads in the ocean, right?

There doesn't appear to be much in the way of proprietary design that is shared between the two boards - at least in the prototype I have and the Walzer I have.

I don't mean to minimize the Walzer or even the concern expressed by Sean and his sister...but I don't think it's a theft of proprietary info as Critter would suggest.

Sean, I still think the Walzer 1" is the best board I've ever ridden behind the boat. Can you offer airbrushing? :-)

(Message edited by surfdad on April 13, 2007)
Old    Nick (nickypoo)      Join Date: Jan 2007       04-13-2007, 9:38 AM Reply   
Wait! Lemme go n get my popcorn and a soda.
Old    wardovision (caskimmer)      Join Date: Apr 2006       04-13-2007, 9:40 AM Reply   
Actually the more the think about this the less mad I become. All it does it solidify Walzer as a trend setter and when it comes down to it what are people going to want to buy. A board from a company pushing the envelope of design or one that sees what's working and tries to copy it?

The Composite X might not be an exact replica of a Walzer but when you take measurements off someone else's board and base your model off it then it's a copy.

BTW-when Walzer 1st met with the So. Cal. Future Fin rep he had no idea how to install these fins into a vacuum bagged board because we were the 1st ones to attempt it. (that he knew of)

No more complaining from me. I'm done with this, it's weak but I'm over it and need to focus on polishing up the next idea to be copied.
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       04-13-2007, 10:05 AM Reply   
Kudos! I think that when you push the envelope as you do Sean, you can expect to be copied. Really there can't be any argument that the Comp X isn't a copy or knock off. Nature of the biz, I guess.

I'm sure we all look forward to more innovation from Walzer.
Old    Show (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       04-13-2007, 7:26 PM Reply   
Uhmmm.... Last fall I copied a Walker F-18, stretched it 8 inches, but I made it out of card board, shopping bags, and a gallons of resin; it's quite heavy Ė itís a brick - I hope it floats. I apologize to Mike for copying his board; can I do it again next fall?

With any luck I'll be surfing the brick in the sleet and snow tomorrow:-)
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All kidding a side, I think thereís a lot of development going on in the wakesurf world. Has there been that much innovation in the regular surf industry latterly, - with Clark Foam getting out of the business I suppose so, hard to here in the land locked Midwest.

Iíd love to see a Waltzer and a Composite X and I canít wait to see the next wake surf innovation.

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