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Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-11-2006, 4:55 AM Reply   
I was just noticing the Walzer boards, which in very general terms (do NOT bust on me Sean, I know it's a generalization! :-) ) is a 4'6" skimboard outline with twin fins. The twin fins being something you'd see more on a surfboard. The nose, is close to a pintail shape for when the board is ridden revert.


The folks at Calibrated have a twin fin design in their Piscus.

James and I are starting to shape a Hybrid also, basically a twin tip also, but a twin at the tail and a very minimal fin on the nose to allow for stability when he throws a shuv...basically just to allow him to shuv out. This board has...very minimal nose rocker.


Jerry Price at Shred Stixx used to make a board similar in design...shoot, 3 years ago Jerry? I'm thinking he was just ahead of his time in that shape! :-)

Anyway, I think that we'll start seeing high performance boards that will be a hybrid shape, there will be deeper fins in the back for drive and then some manner of allowing stability for when the board is ridden revert.

(Message edited by surfdad on September 11, 2006)
Old     (caskimmer)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-11-2006, 8:56 AM Reply   
Well Jeff, I don't really...just kidding.

Sounds like an accurate description to me. Yes, there are some subtle differences but you're right in
that it is basically a twin fin skimboard.

You also know that I agree with you on where the equipment is headed.

(Message edited by CAskimmer on September 11, 2006)
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-11-2006, 9:50 AM Reply   
Is the center line on the above board a glue line between two halves? I've seen what I think are signatures on the Shred Stixx and Walker Project boards along the line, is that right?
Old    floorguy            09-11-2006, 11:07 AM Reply   
Basic question (don't laugh), but what is the difference between a surf board and a skate?
Old    mobster            09-11-2006, 12:49 PM Reply   
If you want the best hybrid shape .You have seen it in action it's Josh Sleigh Surfskate Placebo model The Air show boys down In socal have tried the twin tips and thats why there are none on the market. Also check out 5050 wake skates you can pull shuvits on them all day those are those are the boards of choice of the air show crew Jamie Lovett, Zak Rinehardt Derik Bockelman ride a 5050 wake skate .Chris Ward Andy & Bruce Irons are riding Josh's board .They know what works
Old     (caskimmer)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-11-2006, 1:12 PM Reply   
Doesn't Jaime ride a Calibrated behind the boat?
Old     (livigno)      Join Date: Aug 2005       09-11-2006, 2:33 PM Reply   
Uh, wait a minute - Bruce and Andy Irons do really wakesurf? In addition to surfing spots like, say, Pipeline, Teahupoo, Cloudbreak and J-Bay all the time? I wakesurf and I surf real waves and for me wakesurfing is a lot of fun and the perfect addition to surfing because I can't go surfing on a regular basis, but I can wakesurf anytime and hone my small wave skills and just have fun. But professional surfers? Does wakesurfing benefit them that much? BTW, I ride a 2004 Hyperlite Landlock (behind an '06 SANTE), a 7'2" mini longboard and a 5'7" Full & Cas "Roundnose Fish" (designed for ocean waves).
Old    mobster            09-11-2006, 3:57 PM Reply   
Yes Jamie rides a skim toy behind a boat but he surfs a 5050 wakeskate he does huge airs on them He also kills it at the wave house If your looking for boards that perform in the surf and behind a boat Those boards rock . Josh's wakeboard is his regular surfboard The point is learn from the masters the small wake skates are the progression of alot of years of testing I shoot alot of pro surfing & the airshow boys show the most progression Of all the pros Thats why you are seeing more air trix on the pro tour Andy & Bruce ride Sleigh's board in the surf they took it from Wardo There is alot testing behind both designs JL
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-12-2006, 5:36 PM Reply   
I've been on two of the 5050 waveskates and what is the other similar manufacturer - shoot, Bui's brother?! I can't remember the name now...anyway...just a bit long for my tastes.

Josh is KILLING it on that Placebo JL, but where does one get one? As far as I can tell, it's a proto and you have to be Josh's cousin or the King of Denmark to get one! :-) Is there a source for them at retail, currently?
Old    mobster            09-12-2006, 8:40 PM Reply is the web site placebo is a lost surfboard company Look for the sleigh surfskate 4'8" or 5'0" the 5'0" is what josh rides behind the boat with the thruster fin removed they are a epoxy pop out design JL
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-13-2006, 3:18 AM Reply   
A pop out? Really? I never would have guessed that when I saw Josh board in Clear Lake. Interesting. Shoot I didn't see any dealers up north. I'l have to check again. Thanks, JL, for the info.

Josh seems to like that board, huh :-)

Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-13-2006, 6:47 AM Reply   
Hey Ed, didn't mean to ignore your question. That line down the center of tmy shaped blank is a stringer. In this picture it's made from wood. It does a couple of things, one is it adds strength to the board. If you're surfing as hard as Josh does in the picture above, you can imagine that those folks would have the potential to be brutal on a board. I do believe the stringer on that blank was 1/8" bass wood.

The other thing that stringers do is offer a true center line. The Ploy U blanks were not always "accurate" on the surface and edges. So, cutting them and gluing in a stringer at the center helped that. "Most" shapers use the stringer as a center line and then measure left or right to make sure the board is symetric at various points measured from the nose or tail.

As you've also noticed, Mike and Jerry's shaper add shorthand on the bottom. There will be dimension's noted, for such things as Length Overall, Maximum Width, etc. Also a model number or unit number is very common. Mike uses Surfcad and he can pull that unit number up and see the actual dimensions he sent to the CNC Machine.
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-13-2006, 6:50 AM Reply   
Hey Carey, I think as in most things surfing, there is only a loose definition of "skate". In my experience, a skate is a board that is designed for technical tricks, specifically those typically associated with skateboards.

Mike Walker, after he shaped a board for me, made a promo board that he took to the Japan show and he termed that board a "wake skate". :-)
Old     (caskimmer)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-13-2006, 6:59 AM Reply   
but IMO none of the boards (for behind the boat)labeled "skates" are very skatelike in the way they ride
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-13-2006, 7:20 AM Reply   
Sean, I'm not sure that everyone knows you have ridden virtually every board sport there is and I think can truly say you are a master of most. Skate, Snow, Surf and Skim. I would appreciate your take on why you lean more towards a skimboard than a surfboard for behind the boat, got the time?
Old     (caskimmer)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-13-2006, 9:02 AM Reply   
I'm didn't mean to come off like I was "hating". In fact I would REALLY like to try one of those out in the ocean and they look the closest to what I would ride if I used a surfstyle board behind the boat. (hmmm, maybe if they divide the disciplines hint,hint)

Give me a little time and I'll get back to you on why I prefer a skimstyle board.

disclaimer 1: I'm not trying to say skimstyle boards are for everyone.

disclaimer 2: I would hardly consider myself a master in any of those sports but I think they are all fun
Old    mobster            09-13-2006, 8:49 PM Reply   
This video is one of SEGMENTS JOSH & I put together And you will see Josh is a Master Of Boards
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-14-2006, 5:01 AM Reply   
I can remember reading about Josh grinding the highway barricade in Transworld Surf - shoot over a year ago, that is so sick. :-) I couldn't quite tell, but it looks like about half way through Josh did a kick flip! Did I see that correctly?

JL, your video and editing skills are incredible. You are master of the video! :-)

Back on track for a moment - I'm having a hard time locating a Placebo Board, most of the dealers listed don't stock the skates. I shot an email to Placeboman and have yet to get a response back - know where I can grab one or how to get in touch with the folks over at Placebo?
Old     (caskimmer)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-14-2006, 5:56 AM Reply   
Jibs don't belong in the lineup. I didn't know that was Josh but I remember quite a few people complaining about that.

(Message edited by CAskimmer on September 14, 2006)
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-14-2006, 7:23 AM Reply   
"Jibs don't belong in the lineup"

Old     (caskimmer)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-14-2006, 8:14 AM Reply   
Because it was in the middle of one of the most crowded breaks in all of So. California. IMO if you're going to do something like that then do it at a remote break and not at one with 50 other people who don't want a barricade in their way.
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-14-2006, 8:46 AM Reply   
In the vid, it looks virtually deserted, but...what you are saying is that "IMO, structures are not suitable for crowded breaks." Common courtesy, seems reasonable enough.
Old     (caskimmer)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-14-2006, 8:53 AM Reply   
I could be thinking of something different. I just remember several people complaining about the same thing being tried at Salt Creek.

edit-it's not that I don't think it's sick.

(Message edited by CAskimmer on September 14, 2006)
Old    mobster            09-14-2006, 1:06 PM Reply   
Josh is 3rd generation salt creek local .That rail was done with permission of the local lifeguards & locals, we promote safety first remember creek is A surfing beach swimmers get black balled there. Also it's in the surfing hub of so cal so if you were not there you don't no what was going on .Half the crowd was there to witness , it takes 6 people to work the rail those people helped out because it was fun .It was safer than surfing at any socal surf spot on the weekends . We also have a grinch winch that we use at the beach and we have the approval of local water safety & fire dept we are safety 1st. The crowd just shows up, Also this orange county They would of hassled us if we were out of control!!! Salt Creek Core approved JL MGP
Old     (caskimmer)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-15-2006, 7:01 AM Reply   
it's silly to be argueing over this. You're right I wasn't there and everything I heard was second-hand but I do have the opinion that there are better places to do that.
Old     (caskimmer)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-15-2006, 7:10 AM Reply   
anyway, getting back to the subject.

I ride a skimboard style board because although I'm now 36 and overweight I once use to be a professional athlete and I still yearn for that shot of adreneline. IMO a skimboard style enables me to ride close to that level despite my waning skills. In other words -you don't have to be a professional to rip one of these boards. Heck my dad is learning airs on these boards and he turns 61 in January.

not bad for being 36 and out of shape
Old    surffamily            09-15-2006, 9:11 AM Reply   

That's a beautiful picture! Hey, if you're overweight and want to lose the extra pounds, I have a great simple way to do it. Let me know if you're interested!

Old     (caskimmer)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-18-2006, 8:05 AM Reply   
How about this Hybrid? A twinfin 1 inch "skimstyle" board that borrows aspects both board styles and fuses then into one board

While these boards share the same outline, they are considerably different from their 3/4" counterparts. They were designed for everyone (I weigh 145) but it's the larger riders who stand to gain the most. Finally, a high performance skimstyle board for riders over 200 lbs. They are also 1-1.5 lbs lighter then a 3/4" Phase 5 of the same length.

I'm not boasting in the slightest when I say that most people will experience a noticeable improvement in their riding after just 1 session.


disclaimer: I did have quite a bit of influence in the design of the new boards and have no reservations about putting my reputation on the line. These boards rock!

(Message edited by CAskimmer on September 18, 2006)

(Message edited by CAskimmer on September 18, 2006)
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-18-2006, 8:50 AM Reply   
Now just fix your email so that folks can contact you and you're golden. :-) Sean, what are the particulars on the boards pictured above?
Old     (caskimmer)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-18-2006, 9:09 AM Reply   
my Grabbag email doesn't work? I know it was down for a week once (and the site) when I was in Cabo but that was all fixed. is currently under construction and will be up in a week or so

The blue board (which belongs to Clubmyke) is 54"x20.5" with 1" core 2 5/8" nose rocker, 3/16" tail rocker and weighs 4.75 lbs with fins. The green board is 51.5"x19.75" with 1" core, 2 5/8" nose rocker, 1/8" tail rocker and weighs 4.25lbs. with fins. Exact fin placement/toe-in is undisclosed but took 6 months of heavy testing to perfect.
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-18-2006, 9:23 AM Reply   
Your email has been bouncing for about a week as of Saturday. You kept the same nose rocker on on the 54 and 51.5? Interesting. It's amazing the difference the fin placement can make. I'm still unclear what fins you are using, they look like they screw on to the bottom of the deck.
Old     (caskimmer)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-18-2006, 9:51 AM Reply   
Actually there might be a 1/16" difference in the 2 sizes but he's keeping the nose rocker fairly consistent throughout the line. This was something else that we tested extensively. We found that anything higher starts slowing the boards down from wind shear and anything much lower causes the board to dive.

Yeah, it's crazy how much of a difference just a mm or 2 makes and how many variables need to be taken into consideration when designing a wakesurfer.
Old     (clubmyke)      Join Date: Aug 2004       09-18-2006, 11:24 AM Reply   
jeff, the difference of fin placment is can speed up or slow down the board(a 1/4" inch can keep the rider in or out)

i rode the blue board for the first time yesterday and it rocks !!!!!

it is very, very, fast compared to a couple phase 5 boards, shoreline, liquid force skim, and a couple hyperlites (it is about as fast as the stripes)

the cool thing is i wanted a fast yet predictable board and that is exactly what i blows away the phase 5's hands down in terms of flotation, speed, predictability, shreadability(hey a new word !!!sorry i am really, really excited)

by my second set i got my first rail slide AND air..(i'm in love )
Old     (critter)      Join Date: Oct 2004       09-18-2006, 11:33 AM Reply   
So Mike it sound like your still on cloud 9. Your riding went to a differnt riding level yesterday.

Old     (clubmyke)      Join Date: Aug 2004       09-18-2006, 11:47 AM Reply   
thanks. the board is a good fit..

yep, still on cloud 9.. btw, that would make a very cool board name (i have offically nicknamed my board to "cloud 9")
Old     (caskimmer)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-18-2006, 2:28 PM Reply   
you definitely killed it yesterday during that 2nd session. even on 2 hours sleep!
Old     (smedman)      Join Date: Feb 2006       04-01-2007, 9:41 PM Reply   

Can you give us a breakdown of the differences between the walzer models?
The Z series
The F series
The Pintails


I rode a friend's Pintail 54" here in austin a few weeks back and really liked it. I curious as to the differences in the boards.
Old     (nickypoo)      Join Date: Jan 2007       04-03-2007, 8:18 AM Reply   
Just wondering how you guys have your fins set on your Walzers? There's quite a bit of fore/aft adjustment in them.
Old     (nickypoo)      Join Date: Jan 2007       04-05-2007, 1:47 PM Reply   
Fine then, be that way.
Old     (caskimmer)      Join Date: Apr 2006       04-10-2007, 6:43 PM Reply   
Sorry Nick, totally missed your post. I'm always adjusting it on how I'm feeling but I usually have them towards the front for a looser feel.
Old     (nickypoo)      Join Date: Jan 2007       04-11-2007, 9:33 AM Reply   
No worries Dude. That's pretty much how I figured I would end up. How much difference is there in the feel of the board from moving the fins all the way forward to all the way back? Are there any benefits in down the line speed from having them all the way back?

Sorry about all the Q's, all I can do is talk about this thing as its one thing after another with trying to get the boat out. Supposed to snow today. Guess I'll just keep surfing mountains for the time being.
Old     (caskimmer)      Join Date: Apr 2006       04-11-2007, 9:44 AM Reply   
Aww poor you having to settle for freshies in the Avy Chutes

It all depends on your style of riding. Some people generate speed by strait-lining it but I was use small carves for my speed where having a looser board is faster. (hope that made sense)
Old     (nickypoo)      Join Date: Jan 2007       04-11-2007, 10:11 AM Reply   
Actually, that makes perfect sense. I put 1.1 A-wings on my Landlock and I swear its faster. It is also 10 times looser. By all rights, 6" surf fins should be way faster the 1.1" wakeboard fins, but they enabled me to work the board so much better that I was able to generate a lot more speed.

By the way, that's an old NASCAR adage, "Loose is fast."

...and yes, poor me I have to drive almost a whole hour to get to places like Squaw and Alpine and Sugarbowl.
Old     (caskimmer)      Join Date: Apr 2006       04-11-2007, 10:19 AM Reply   
Sugarbowl is my all-time favorite resort. I use to live on Donner Lake and do the out-of-bounds run off Mt Judah down to the lake every evening as my commute home.
Old     (entrustclothing)      Join Date: Jul 2005       04-11-2007, 10:33 AM Reply   
sean i just emailed you :-)
Old     (nickypoo)      Join Date: Jan 2007       04-11-2007, 11:49 AM Reply   
Damn Sean, that's about the dopest commute ever.


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