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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive > Archive through December 26, 2006

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Old    Billy (woreout)      Join Date: Aug 2006       12-15-2006, 12:55 PM Reply   
I just heard Four Winns was coming out with a Wakeboard boat that looks like an XSTAR. I was wondering if anyone heard this or had any pics?
Four Winns has a new Wake System on their SS boats they call RAZORWAKE or something like that. A buddy of mine up north told me it was a cross between trim tabs and a wedge. Just wondering.
Old    Jon (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       12-15-2006, 1:15 PM Reply   
Are they still I/O's???
Old    Stevo (mctc)      Join Date: Oct 2006       12-15-2006, 1:20 PM Reply   
I have heard the same thing, they have a system called RAZORBLADES that work between a trim tab and the wedge. Who knows what will come of it but for the I/O lover, or occasional wakeboarder, it might not be a bad idea. I'll stick to an inboard personally.
Old    Billy (woreout)      Join Date: Aug 2006       12-15-2006, 1:37 PM Reply   
Its still an I/O from what I hear. An I/O isnt that bad a wake for most people by itself. If this new Razor deal adds to it, it may not be bad at all. I would think it would be a lot less money. Four Winns builds a nice boat to begin with. Good luck to them if it pans out.
Old    r3612            12-15-2006, 1:45 PM Reply   
I would still stick with Wakeboat...less moving parts coming out the rear...and from what I remember the Four Winns that were setup for boarding weren't much less than a base wakeboat all things considered.

Of course you're going to get a much bigger roomier boat for the ocaassional boarder. ...so not bad thing...but for a purely boarding fam nothing the beats the performance, quality, durability, and wake of an inboard. I"m sure this boat will be a ton of fun for a bunch of families no doubt, but ultimately those who are serious into boarding will always want the pull of an inboard
Old    Midwestwakeboarder.com (mjmurphy53711)      Join Date: Mar 2004       12-15-2006, 2:07 PM Reply   
Im not sure if it will be a lot less money.

Four winns are expensive boats to begin with. Not compared to MC or CC I suppose, but it is very easy to drop 45k on a four winns...especially if the new "wake boat" is sold at an upcharge.

On the flip side, too anyone interested Bayliner is selling the x series I/o's new for low 20's.
Old    Billy (woreout)      Join Date: Aug 2006       12-16-2006, 10:09 AM Reply   
Here is a pic of the current Four Winns SS. I took this at the local dealer, he said they havent got a boat in yet with the RazorBlade wake system on it. This is the boat that it will come on though. He said they come in 20' 21' 22' this was the 22'. The XSTAR look a like he said would be a few months away.
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Old    Jay (jayc)      Join Date: Sep 2002       12-17-2006, 8:01 AM Reply   
Is the tower attatched to the boat back to front or is the boat attatched to the tower back to front?

Either way it looks dumb.
Old    Roddyrod (wakeslife)      Join Date: Jul 2005       12-17-2006, 8:35 AM Reply   
Yeah that tower does look like its on backwards if you look at if for a second. Swing and a miss on trying to copy the Illusion...
Old    kvanderg            12-17-2006, 9:24 AM Reply   
I did the math on it one day...

Take a good quality, 21-22ft, I/O to start with and add:

1) Tower, board racks, stereo and speakers
2) Ballast bags, lead, pump(s)
3) some more HP (at least 340HP)
4) Prop it
5) Perfect pass (if you can???)

and you pretty much end up with a boat that is just as much, if not more, $$$ than say... a Sanger, Centurion or Moomba but in the end you have a boat that doesn't perform NEARLY as well, will look like ass and WILL have a much lower resale value.

No one will laugh at you if you buy a Sanger... but they will if you buy a Four Winns

(Message edited by kvanderg on December 17, 2006)
Old    marc (7890303)      Join Date: Sep 2006       12-18-2006, 8:16 PM Reply   
I have a 87 Four Winns 21' The interior & gelcoat is faded, but the stitching & drivetrain is still holding together well. It tops out at 50 mph in choppy conditions. I added a tower to mine, & w/ fatsacs, the wake is comparable to most inboards. I agree the reverse tower on the Razor is embarassing, but I'm sure the rest of the boat is awesome. To each his own.
Old    Billy (woreout)      Join Date: Aug 2006       12-19-2006, 6:07 AM Reply   
Doesnt Malibu have a reverse tower?
Old    Scott Root (sroot1)      Join Date: Aug 2005       12-19-2006, 6:48 AM Reply   
Kevin
Stop with the Math already!
2000 19'BR SeaRay, Perfect Pass, Tower, Fiberglass swim platform, 17p hi-five etc. etc!

I Could Have Had a V-Drive!!!!!!

Well live and learn! When I bought I did not even know about Wakeworld!
Shoulda Coulda Woulda!!

I will make some one a great deal on a SeaRay!

Scott
Old    kvanderg            12-19-2006, 4:02 PM Reply   
Scott,

Stop with the math already? I'm an Engineer... what your asking me to do is not reasonable

Sorry if I offended anyone... I was just trying to help out the newbies who think they can "try and cheap out" and dress up a I/O to be a proper Vdrive wake boat. In the end... it just doesn't work.

I hate anything that is misleading... and a dressed up I/O offered up, by the factory, as a wakeboat is just plain misleading.
Old    Scott Root (sroot1)      Join Date: Aug 2005       12-19-2006, 4:52 PM Reply   
Kevin
I sure hope no one was offended by good advice!

I like our I.O! but now I want more out of our boat! I would like to be able to surf when Lake Erie is not condusive to boarding. Also the safty issue of keeping people away from the drive even with the engine off.

So now I am looking at V-Drives under 22' that will handle some of the chop we so often get.

I wish I had tuned into W.W. before I had done so much to our I.O!
Old    Josh B (joshugan)      Join Date: Apr 2005       12-19-2006, 10:17 PM Reply   
I've been behind some I/0s that are better than some d and v-drives. My buddies have a boat called a Century that is I/O. The wake is killer and it certainly hasn't held my buddy back who learned whirlybirds and 5s behind it.
Old    Chqwakeboarder (chqwakeboarder)      Join Date: May 2006       12-20-2006, 10:03 AM Reply   
Scott, you run a 19' boat on Lake Erie! We tired it once with our old IO and got tossed around like no other on a relatively calm day. (our old boat was 19.5'). Where do you ride?

(Message edited by chqwakeboarder on December 20, 2006)
Old    Scott Root (sroot1)      Join Date: Aug 2005       12-20-2006, 12:39 PM Reply   
Chqwakeboarder
We live by Lakeview Park in Lorain Ohio, and we only head out when conditions are good.
The mile long breakwall here helps to give us a little more flat water when the wind is out of N.east to S.east.
We did alot of driving inland this year to try and get more board time in. We hit West Branch State park and several others as often as I could get crew. Even with all of the traveling we did not get out every week. Maybe next year I can hook-up with some people to start early spring and get more time on the water!
Old    Chqwakeboarder (chqwakeboarder)      Join Date: May 2006       12-20-2006, 3:33 PM Reply   
We ride mostly at our home on Chatauqua Lake,(hence the CHQwakeboarder) which is 2.5 hours from our primary house. We also hit up west Branch a few times a year when we are in the area. Your post on tuesday says your looking at a v-drive. I highly recommend Tri Lakes Marine, which is near West Branch, because they have really taken care of us before, during, and after our boat buying experience.
Old    kvanderg            12-20-2006, 5:51 PM Reply   
Josh,

Thanx for that exciting tale of whirlybirds and 5's... but anyone who would "knowingly" spends just as much money on a I/O as compared to a decent vdrive... should "knowlingly" expect to lose their ass when they try and sell or trade.
Old    marc (7890303)      Join Date: Sep 2006       12-20-2006, 9:10 PM Reply   
Its all about the wake. So it doesnt matter if you get pulled behind a Ski doo, I/O, inboard, or winch, a good rider should be able to shread behind anything. Anyone who says any different is just trying to justify their purchase. I know people that own $50-60k "wakeboats" that ride like beginners. I got buddys that can pull various envied tricks behinds bass boats. My boat is a 21' Four Winns, w/ bags. I've been told by several good riders the wake is comparable to Wakesetters, Centuions, Malibus, etc. My boat just doesnt look as cool as a Wakesetter, or cost as much either. My boat also skims across rollers at 50 mph on the way back to the dock. If Four Winns corrects the tower, I'll buy one.
Old    Midwestwakeboarder.com (mjmurphy53711)      Join Date: Mar 2004       12-20-2006, 9:37 PM Reply   
That looks like a standard flight control tower turned around!
Old    Stevo (mctc)      Join Date: Oct 2006       12-21-2006, 7:29 AM Reply   
i don't understand the complaint of the tower...it's the same configuration as a malibu tower.
Old    Dante (hal2814)      Join Date: Feb 2006       12-21-2006, 7:45 AM Reply   
I think the people here are forgetting that we are not the target audience (even those who are actively using an I/O to board). This is for the family that wants a nice familiar I/O boat that can be used to wakeboard without having to worry about the kids wanting to bolt on towers and throw sandbags and bricks of lead into your brand new ride. This boat is a consession. The Dad and/or Mom wants the Four Winns but the kids want to board. They're getting their Four Winns anyways but at least you can have your tower, ballast, and tabs. Better to pay a couple thousand now than risk damage by improperly installed aftermarket mods.

It's a smart move for a boat company to make. The only thing i don't like about it is that the salesmen are trying to make it sound like the boat is only a step away from being a tournament wake boat but that's salesmen for you.
Old    Byrd (byrd)      Join Date: Dec 2005       12-21-2006, 8:00 AM Reply   
I drove by the Dealer yesterday and stopped in to check it out. Pretty nice, and like Dante said, the hard core Wakeboarders are not the target for this boat. Personally, its not my style, but if it gets more people out there having a good time, so be it....

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Old    Bob L (bob_l)      Join Date: Jul 2006       12-21-2006, 8:12 AM Reply   
I purchased a new 194FS Monterey I/O (with tower and swim platform) new last year from the areas top Master Craft dealer. The dealer has a ski/board school and I was after a "family friendly" boat and the wife wanted a cushy ride. I have 3 boys (age 19 down to 10) with zero ski/board experience and they wanted to learn to board. We now own 3 wakeboards and all three have progressed nicely (my middle son was clearing the wake in less than a month). I have no complaints and it has been a good boat but the middle son rode behind a MC and is on me to trade up. With the rapid progression of 2 of my sons (the 15 and 10 year old), I will probably get a wake specific boat in the next 12 months. Talked to the dealer about a trade and he said that he did not think I would trade-up so soon and said he felt a bit bad selling me the boat as he thought it would take me at least 2-3 years to get the "fever". Sure, I will take a bit of a hit but it has been a good boat.

On the other hand, my buddy went from nothing to a new X2 and he regrets not going with an I/O. No experience with any boats so on his maiden voyage, he backed it into the dock (inboards don't back up too well). His young kids are having trouble getting outside the wake and his wife is bitching about the ride in a chop.

In short, I/O's (even with towers) have their place.
Old    Byrd (byrd)      Join Date: Dec 2005       12-21-2006, 8:40 AM Reply   
Trade with your buddy, lol....
Old    Bob L (bob_l)      Join Date: Jul 2006       12-21-2006, 9:15 AM Reply   
Thought about that Byrd but it has a severe case of dock rash.

Did not want to go on and on in my post but he also noticed a lot of water in the boat after he ran it into the dock (while backing up). He took it directly from the dealer to the lake and assumed the dealer left the plug in. Picture this...the wife and kids are loaded up, he backs the boat off the trailer and into the dock. Wife and kids get in the boat and they are taking on water. He does not know where the plug is so he is in the middle of the lake with the cell phone yelling at the dealer while they walk him through the plug install.
Old    Billy (woreout)      Join Date: Aug 2006       12-21-2006, 9:25 AM Reply   
Wow sounds like the dealer did a real thorough demo upon delivery.....not
Old     (fatsac)      Join Date: Jun 2004       12-21-2006, 10:42 AM Reply   
The boat reminds me of Crownline's LPX model. The race graphics, through hull exhaust, etc. I actually like the boat and do appreciate the style of Crownline, Cobalt, and even a couple Four Winns. Having ridden behind Marc's, I will argue it is comparable to a few wake specifics out there. Post some pics of the pirate ship, Marc! If I were shopping, the biggest concern would be the outdrive. Once you get use to an inboard or v, not having to worry as much about the prop means a lot... at least to me.
Old    Daman Barron (ncbschzzt)      Join Date: Jul 2006       12-21-2006, 11:04 AM Reply   
Ewww yuck
Old    Midwestwakeboarder.com (mjmurphy53711)      Join Date: Mar 2004       12-21-2006, 4:16 PM Reply   
Im gonna say once again, for the I/O market the bayliner xp wake edition is a much better choice.

The hull is better, the look is better, and the price better......although maybe not the bling.

Starting at 20k.
Old    Bryan (westsiderippa)      Join Date: Dec 2006       12-21-2006, 7:18 PM Reply   
deep thought by the rippa... base jumping is really cool, i gonna go by a parahute and jump off a bridge tomarrow. NOT!!! i dont understand why people jump into things without researching what they are getting into first. bob, i feel bad for you because of the hit your gonna take but it sounds like you and your kids are stoked. chalk it up as a lesson learned. make sure you do all your research this time and get out there with your boys and demo those wakes. you will find that boat right for your family.
Old    Erik (etakk7)      Join Date: Apr 2006       12-21-2006, 8:57 PM Reply   
I just got out of an I/O and I totally agree that there is so much outdrive related maintenance on an I/O that I won't miss! This doesn't usually come into play for a few years down the road, though.
Old    Stevo (mctc)      Join Date: Oct 2006       12-22-2006, 10:25 AM Reply   
mike murphy, Bayliner?

"The hull is better, the look is better, and the price better......although maybe not the bling"

You must be a Malibu guy too because that is and statement used in our many inboard boat wars.

Bayliners are the worst boat made, and that is why they're cheap.

The Bayliner XP wake edition is nothing but an I/O with a tower and graphics, you can get that in any I/O company. The difference now is Four Winns has "razorblades" that works to enhance the wake.

Those new saturns look nice, don't they?
Old    Midwestwakeboarder.com (mjmurphy53711)      Join Date: Mar 2004       12-22-2006, 11:02 AM Reply   
Stevo, I get what you are saying, but here is a couple things to consider.

(for the record I own a correct craft and have no brand loyalty, I ride em all and love em all).

I rode on a bayliner for years, with the addition of a plumbed in ballast system it through a monster wake, although not is clean and consistent as Im now used to. However, I learned an invert, 360's, bs 180's etc on it and had FUN.

This was my buddies boat that cost 12k out the door with a six year warranty on it. 3k in additions you have a tower, ballast, perfect pass, and racks. It was a FUN ride. He sold it a couple years later for 10.5 and we now ride in his 06 21V and have FUN.

My point that the bayliner is better is simply what others have said, you will spend as much on that four winns as you will on a late model wakeboat! Razorblades, Im skeptical.....tige didnt win a huge portion of the wake market with the addition of taps now did they.

My opinion is simply this......for the die hard wakeboarder a used inboard is "obviously" the way to go. However, there are many people that want something reliable and turnkey, with a warranty and a dealer relationship. I personally believe the bayliner model is better suited because its likely HALF the price.

Apples, Oranges, bananas, watermelons.

Ive grown up on the water and our family has had bayliners, maxums, arriva's (all made by the same company) and NEVER had a problem with any of them.

The worst boat made is the boat you pay too much for, have to spend money on too often, and have a hard time selling.

Saturns are all you buddy, Ill stick to my Ram.
Old    Billy (woreout)      Join Date: Aug 2006       12-22-2006, 11:56 AM Reply   
Is it a 1979 Ram? I agree that a Bayliner is the cheapest but so is a Gekko. The Four Winns might be as much as a nice inboard, but there are a lot of people that like I/O's with quality and good looks, but arent inboard types. The Bayliner probably was carburated and did not have some of the creature comforts offered in a higher end I/O. Thats why everyone doesnt drive a Chevy Aveo and shop at the Dollar store for Christmas. There are many choices in just about anything thats sold. Unless of course you live in Russia.
Old    Midwestwakeboarder.com (mjmurphy53711)      Join Date: Mar 2004       12-22-2006, 12:10 PM Reply   
Fuel injected.

And, its an 05 Ram 1500 quad cab w/hemi, although i doubt its relavent.
Old    Mark (mvl)      Join Date: May 2004       12-24-2006, 8:32 PM Reply   
I know this is going back a little in the post, but dang Kevin. My bro is an engineer, so I get the way you think, believe me, but still, just because it isn't you, don't tear it apart. Besides, you sounded more like a finance guy than an engineer.

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