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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive > Archive through December 26, 2006

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Old    Matthew Bird (ldr)      Join Date: Nov 2002       11-27-2006, 4:19 PM Reply   
Has anyone plumbed v drive side sacks into the existing ballast system? We're thinking about doing this on my parents X Star and are wondering if it has been done before.
Old    Kevin aka Chino (big_xstar)      Join Date: Nov 2004       11-27-2006, 6:46 PM Reply   
We have 2 600lbs sacs in the rear lockers of ours.
We actually have a sepearate pump and lines dedictated to just those 2 bags. No bags up front, just POP bags.
Old    Andrew Davis (c640947)      Join Date: Jan 2005       11-28-2006, 11:14 AM Reply   
yeah its super easy - 2 backflow preventers, 10 feet of hose, hose clamps, t connectors and you are in business. need screwdriver (for hose clamps), vasoline (makes hose attaching easier) and box cuter. all parts available at local hardware store except maybe hose. takes about an hour a side when you know what you are doing, first time plan on 6 hours total project.

t into line between pump and hard tank and that is your fill empty into the bag bottom. another line at the top of bag t into overflow line for rear tanks - put backflow preventer on here. thats it.

i did my buddy's 05 1 hour per side.
Old    KennyMo (boardcrazy)      Join Date: Oct 2003       11-28-2006, 12:31 PM Reply   
I was actually thinking of doing the same thing this off season. I just hadn't sat down to see exactly how I was going to go about it. I think I have a good idea now...
Old    Matthew Bird (ldr)      Join Date: Nov 2002       11-28-2006, 1:12 PM Reply   
Thanks andrew, that's about what i thought.
Did your buddy still need to add weight to the rear or were the stock tanks plus sacks enough. Also what size sacks did you use?
Old    Christopher James Shelstad (shelstad)      Join Date: Oct 2005       11-28-2006, 2:51 PM Reply   
You also ccould take the overflow hose from the hard tank and plum it as a fill/drain for the sac. Then the sac overflow will go out the original hard tank overflow.
Old    K.B.C.            11-28-2006, 2:56 PM Reply   
We took the stock tanks out of my friends 06 X-1 and replaced the tanks with bags, works great.
Old    Manny (mrm2083)      Join Date: Nov 2005       11-28-2006, 3:34 PM Reply   
I did it on my x2, took me about 2 hours first time
Old    travis moye (driving)      Join Date: Jan 2003       11-28-2006, 3:52 PM Reply   
Fly High actually makes a kit to do it now. We used it on the tour boat last year and it worked great!

I have all separate pumps for mine now with sacks on each side of the engine and under each front seat, but will be doing the Fly High system this year. They have bags that are the exact size of the rear compartments and for under the front seats.
Old    the right kind (the_right_kind)      Join Date: Oct 2005       11-28-2006, 7:43 PM Reply   
Travis, do you have a link for Fly High?
Old    Christopher James Shelstad (shelstad)      Join Date: Oct 2005       11-29-2006, 1:16 AM Reply   
www.fatsac.com
Old    Christopher James Shelstad (shelstad)      Join Date: Oct 2005       11-29-2006, 1:18 AM Reply   
Our Site is going to be rebuilt and will be updated w/ all new prod. in JAN.
But feel free to call with questions
Old    Matthew Bird (ldr)      Join Date: Nov 2002       11-29-2006, 10:59 AM Reply   
Thanks Travis,

Was the aditional weight of the sacs enough to ge a good wake out of the boat? Meaning do you need to have additional sacs on the floor?

Thanks again for all the replies. The reason for this is that my brother and i have been frustrated that our parents don't like running with lead and we know that the stock ballast system doesn't begin to tap the potential of the hull. Hopefully this will be a good compromise.
Old    Andrew Davis (c640947)      Join Date: Jan 2005       11-29-2006, 11:48 AM Reply   
mathew - he uses a 750 in each compartment, not totally full usually, and a 750 in the bow floor, again not totally full. He hasn't plumbed under the front seats yet. lazy punk

I think either one in the floor or two under the seats in the front plus 600 or partially full 750s in the back makes an excellent wake. Fly High's custom fit sacks will definitely be the way to go.

Christopher - "You also could take the overflow hose from the hard tank and plum it as a fill/drain for the sac. Then the sac overflow will go out the original hard tank overflow." I disagree, or maybe I don't clearly understand what you are saying. You should obviously be the expert in it, but don't see how hooking the sack fill / empty into the overflow of the tank is optimal. Shouldn't the tank and the bag each be seperately plumbed into the overflow line? I know the tank fills faster but I would think it would have trouble draining the sack properly if it is set up the way you suggest.

I used the fly high sacks and connections and T-ed into the line between the pump and tank for fill / empty and then T-ed into the tank overflow line for the bag overflow. Has worked great on my 06 X2 and no extra expensive pumps are necessary.

On a side note, I have not plumbed in my integrated bow sack yet - I was planning on using the same methodology with the KGB pump, but a lot more hose is involved. Anyone already done this or have suggestions?
Old    dan (doubleup_dan)      Join Date: Oct 2006       11-29-2006, 12:48 PM Reply   
in mine i run 2 large in the back 1 large in the middle and 2 sides in the front and then ballast and about 4-5 people in the boat and you got a sweet wake
Old    travis moye (driving)      Join Date: Jan 2003       11-29-2006, 4:48 PM Reply   
Mathew,

I don't run any extra sacks. And, the wake is great. Everyone that has ridden behind my boat loves it. Get Chris at Fly High to set you up. They have it figured out!

Travis
Old    dan (doubleup_dan)      Join Date: Oct 2006       11-29-2006, 6:20 PM Reply   
any one have any pics of plumbin process on xstar?
Old    kyle (lfxstar)      Join Date: Jul 2001       11-30-2006, 9:13 AM Reply   
dan, you ever considering riding the protour in the US or are you just sticking to dominating europe?
Old    Christopher James Shelstad (shelstad)      Join Date: Oct 2005       11-30-2006, 9:29 AM Reply   
Andrew, the concept that I am referring to is simple and effective that allows people to integrate without all of the dirty-work of drilling an major pluming. Here is a crappy drawing to try to explain what I was trying to say.
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/6827/hardsacop0.png

By doing the install this way control is limited but it will get the job done.

As far as the X-Star system you can use the same concept but include distribution flow valves to enable control to fill both hard and sac--just hard--or just sac

I will try and find some pics to exp.
Old    Christopher James Shelstad (shelstad)      Join Date: Oct 2005       11-30-2006, 9:47 AM Reply   
Upload
Here is a prototype model of the distribution flow valve. Today they are made individually, ie: instead of the large one unit with 9 ports pictured, today there would be three small individual 3 port units.
Upload
Upload
Old    Christopher James Shelstad (shelstad)      Join Date: Oct 2005       11-30-2006, 10:00 AM Reply   
Here is a shot of our 4 sac Custom X-Star Add. Ballast aprox. 2500 lbs


Upload
Old    drew patten (drewdown)      Join Date: Jun 2006       11-30-2006, 10:00 AM Reply   
Chris

Will the conversion kit work on an 06 X-30 as well? I mean are the ballast systems the same across the board on 06 MC's?

Can you replace the hard sacs on the 06 Mc's with fly high sacs and call it a day?
Old    Christopher James Shelstad (shelstad)      Join Date: Oct 2005       11-30-2006, 10:08 AM Reply   
I do not see why it would not work?

Any Help W.W.er's?

I believe that all of their boats ballast systems use the same concept of pluming.

"Can you replace the hard sacs on the 06 Mc's with fly high sacs and call it a day?"
-Yes, you could replace and "call it a day" but you could also just add to your current system and "call it an Upgrade"
Old    wakeridersaz (factory)      Join Date: Aug 2006       11-30-2006, 10:16 AM Reply   
chris- so you just using gravity to empty the fat sac above the factory ballest tank?
Old    Christopher James Shelstad (shelstad)      Join Date: Oct 2005       11-30-2006, 10:48 AM Reply   
Gravity, yes. But also the primed siphon created by the hard tanks pump
Old    wakeridersaz (factory)      Join Date: Aug 2006       11-30-2006, 11:17 AM Reply   
what does the xstar setup cost what will i need for fittings to plumb it in?
Old    GoodTimes (bennygoodx)      Join Date: Aug 2006       11-30-2006, 11:52 AM Reply   
Just got off the phone with donovan. Taking my 45 in to get a custom plumb job on tue. The design they're talking about doing is quite a bit simpler than the pics above. No switches and only one valve. I'm going to plumb 2000 lbs on each side.
Old    Christopher James Shelstad (shelstad)      Join Date: Oct 2005       11-30-2006, 12:20 PM Reply   
Factory, if you just want the 4 sacs part#W715 the price is 599.99
custom fittings not included B/C we never know how people want to fill their sacs (integration vs. manual).

If you are looking for everything needed to add it to an X-Star factory ballast system the same way the factory does it, you will want to buy:
BAREFOOT INTíL & FLY HIGH
PART #558031
PRICE $1,2500
[Additional X-Star Ballast Upgrade]

INCLUDES:
(2) - Custom Rear V-Drive compartment Sacs
(2) - Custom Front Open bow (under seat) Sacs
(4) - Custom Distribution Flow Valves
- All custom integrated hose connector
fittings installed where needed w/ PVC
cement.
(1) - 50' of 1" reinforced black bilge hose
Old    Michael B (michaelb14)      Join Date: Jul 2001       11-30-2006, 2:10 PM Reply   
I have the FlyHigh kit in my X-Star (it is from the Atlanta PWT this year). The kit works very well. Mine looks similar to the photos posted except I have 2 sets of values (one set with one valve and another set with 2 values) as opposed to the one large set.

My only complaint is the fact that if you fill the front sacs all the way up, it will push your cushions completely up in the air.

(Message edited by MichaelB14 on November 30, 2006)
Old    Manny (mrm2083)      Join Date: Nov 2005       11-30-2006, 2:12 PM Reply   
why dont u guys use something like the integrated bow sac for the front, wouldnt that be easier and add more wheight than 2?
Old    soulrider (projectely4)      Join Date: Apr 2003       11-30-2006, 2:58 PM Reply   
the integrated bow sac wouldn't add as much weight in the bow as those 2 sacs do. the xstar has a very wide bow compared to most other boats and would probably not allow the integrated bow sac to fit right and it wouldn't fill up all the space
Old    travis moye (driving)      Join Date: Jan 2003       11-30-2006, 7:55 PM Reply   
Michael,

Do you have the sacks that are made for the front of the X-Star or just the normal side sacks? I have the custom ones and they don't push my seats up at all. But, I do take out the bulkhead that's under the front seat on the drivers side so the sack can go back a little extra.
Old    Michael B (michaelb14)      Join Date: Jul 2001       11-30-2006, 8:08 PM Reply   
I have the boat from the first pwt (Atlanta) this year. I would assume that they are the same ones you have. It wasn't plumbed inline at the pwt, but was done a couple of weeks later. Now my system was the second one they did, so maybe they learned something and fixed it on later models. I haven't tried to move the sacks back more. I can try that and see if it fixes the problem. If I fill them up for more than 75% it will push the seat up and since those seats are on gas springs, the seats will stand them straight up.
Old    travis moye (driving)      Join Date: Jan 2003       12-01-2006, 4:01 AM Reply   
Are your sacks rectangular, or round. The new ones are rectangular.
Old    Michael B (michaelb14)      Join Date: Jul 2001       12-01-2006, 8:21 AM Reply   
I'll have to look when I get home.
Old    soulrider (projectely4)      Join Date: Apr 2003       12-12-2006, 6:00 PM Reply   
im looking into this system and was wondering how it will work with the new timed ballast pumps on the 07 xstar?
Old    Cliff (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       12-12-2006, 9:26 PM Reply   
I put the Rival system in my 'Bu and love it
Old    Marco (macrogpx2)      Join Date: Dec 2005       12-12-2006, 9:40 PM Reply   
Lets see some pics of these X-Stars slammed!
Old    Eddy Celis (bughunter)      Join Date: Nov 2001       12-13-2006, 8:17 AM Reply   
I put the Fligh-High system in our boat earlier this year and it is working out pretty good. The wake is just great with that extra weight.
The problem with the integrated system is that there is no provisions for the overflow of the sacs. The simplistic drawing that Fligh-High sends with the kit is calling for overflow, but it looks like they presume you would be drilling three new holes in the hull.
The only way to plumb the overflow of the bags into the existing tank's overflows is to add a check-valve that prevents the water from coming in through the overflow. When I did mine I added PVC check-valves from Home-Depot. These did not work because the pressure required to overcome the build-in spring on the valve is to high.
My dealer had to experiment with it until they found a low-pressure check-valve they sell at Boaters World. This valve works fine.
Fligh High should include better instructions and include the low-pressure check-valves with their kit.
Old    TR (biz)      Join Date: Mar 2004       12-13-2006, 8:46 AM Reply   
Will Fly High be selling the distribution flow valves seperately? if so how much and when? I couldn't find them on the website.
Old    Christopher James Shelstad (shelstad)      Join Date: Oct 2005       12-19-2006, 9:17 AM Reply   
Eddy-
There is a Check (3) valve that is included with the system. It is called - Check valve T assembly for vent and it is used to stop hard tank overflow from getting into the sac. Also this allows the sac overflow to be "T"ed into the original overflow hose.

I will try and post a pic of the unit.
Old    Christopher James Shelstad (shelstad)      Join Date: Oct 2005       12-19-2006, 9:19 AM Reply   
TR (biz)-

It will be sold seperately but I do not have a price for you yet, sorry! But If you wanted one today, I am sure it could happen. One way or another.
Old    Christopher James Shelstad (shelstad)      Join Date: Oct 2005       12-19-2006, 9:24 AM Reply   
Here is that check valve

Upload
Old    Eddy Celis (bughunter)      Join Date: Nov 2001       12-20-2006, 9:23 AM Reply   
I must have had one of the first or even a prototype.

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