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Old    Mike H. (mim3)      Join Date: Sep 2006       12-14-2006, 5:54 PM Reply   
Hello Camera Guru's, I've spent some time reading many posts and reviews on SLR's and lenses. I believe to have narrowed my search down to two models: Canon 30D or Nikon D80. I have been using digital point and shoots for a long time. What I am looking for in a new camera is the ability to get good zoom images both in doors and out (boarding/son's hockey games, action sports, Xmas morning etc).

I have found what I believe to be good pricing on both camera bodies. My question is would it be best to buy the body and add a couple lenses vs going with a "kit"? I would appreciate some guidance on which individual lenses I should start with?

Here is an example of one of the kits off ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Nikon-D80-Digital-SLR-Camera-w-NIKON-LENSES-4GB-FLAS_W0QQitemZ290058466966QQihZ019QQcategoryZ43456 QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

Thanks for your advice!
Old    Scott (scott_a)      Join Date: Dec 2002       12-14-2006, 8:33 PM Reply   
Alright..enough is enough.

I don't mean to be rude, but there have already been a half dozen posts on this exact same topic. Please browse through the topics that have already been discussed instead of asking the same question someone asked last week.
Old    Chris Anthony (cmawsr)      Join Date: Nov 2002       12-14-2006, 9:41 PM Reply   
Most of the time kits are a ripoff.
Old    Mike H. (mim3)      Join Date: Sep 2006       12-14-2006, 10:18 PM Reply   
Chris, thanks...seems to be the consensus on the kits.

I found a D80 body for $859, 18-70mm ED IF AF S DX for $299, and 70-300 IF-ED AF-S VR for $529. Does that look like a good lens combo? The 18-135 DX is also a possibility?
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       12-15-2006, 7:13 AM Reply   
At this point the whole Canon vs Nikon thing at that cost level of camera get's down to whose logo you like better. the first 2 lens you mention would be good for starters. Canon has similar lenses as well in their line-up. Stay away from those bundles on ebay that look amazingly cheap because those lens are normally not worth shooting with.
Old    Mikeski (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       12-16-2006, 10:04 AM Reply   
I tend to agree with Scott, the search button is just below the monster tower ad on the top banner.

My father had Nikons, gave me a Nikon in high school, my sister has one, therefore I bought a Nikon since I am familiar with them and have an extra lens or two that will work on the DSLR. I was happy with my D50, and now with my D80.

Canon sells about 5 digital cameras to Nikons 1, so most people prefer Canons.

As Rich suggests it's really personal preferance. Head down to the local camera store and hold them, check their feature set, and menus. Choose the one that floats your boat.

Cost range is $500 for entry level with basic lens (stick with the mfg. lens at this level). Good mid-range DSLRs are in the $2k range once you get a good lens, memory, a case, and extra battery.

SEARCH for more.
Old    Mike H. (mim3)      Join Date: Sep 2006       12-17-2006, 8:31 AM Reply   
Guys, I understand the search function, you can stop already. Been there and done that. Yes I agree that my post was a bit redundant.

However, the most relevant post on the D80 was about one month ago. Rather than post a reply, I felt my question would be "fresher" if a new post was started, saving first time readers having to read several reply's to get to my question. Also, it is even possible that "someone" had made a purchase since the earlier posts and had not yet added their comments.

Peace!

After spending time in the local camera shop I ended up with:
Canon 30D, EFS 17-85, and 430EX Flash. I also borrowed a used 75-300 USM to play with. I like everything except the old 75-300. I'll be back in Monday to decide between: 70-200 4L IS USM or 70-300 4-5.6 IS USM. If anyone has experience with either comments would be appreciated.

Thanks!
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       12-17-2006, 8:39 AM Reply   
why are you wanting IS?
Old    Mike H. (mim3)      Join Date: Sep 2006       12-17-2006, 9:08 AM Reply   
Joe, great question...I appreciate leading questions! If I understand IS correctly it will help with image quality while panning. I am looking for a zoom lens that is good for action sports. The store mng suggested the 70-200 f/2.8L IS as it would be perfect for indoors ($1700 ouch!). Thanks, Mike.
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       12-17-2006, 9:11 AM Reply   
IS doesn't really help if you're shooting wakeboarding. it does help in low-light situations, but if you're shooting wakeboarding in low-light, IS will help, but your pics will still look like poo, unless you have a remote flash. if the lens is for shooting mainly indoor stuff, then the IS would be helpful.
Old    Mike H. (mim3)      Join Date: Sep 2006       12-17-2006, 9:26 AM Reply   
Is the 2.8 the only way to go for indoors or can I get away with the 4L? Maybe even the 4-5.6? The price range is $550 to $1700.
Old    Jed (gehennaengine)      Join Date: Jun 2005       12-17-2006, 9:54 AM Reply   
It's the minimum if you want to do a lot of indoor shooting without flash. You could also pick up a nice prime lens with a larger aperture (1.8/1.4) which would give you even better results in low light but you would sacrifice zoom.

I have the 30D 17-85 kit and a 24-70 f2.8L. I've used the 17-85 once - right after I purchased it. If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't have purchased the kit and put the extra money into a prime.
Old    Phantom (phantom5815)      Join Date: Jul 2002       12-17-2006, 11:21 AM Reply   
Nikon had made a f2.0 200mm lens that was used for indoor volleyball
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       12-17-2006, 11:30 AM Reply   
"If I understand IS correctly it will help with image quality while panning."

that's true but the effect at high shutter speeds is negligible.

I have owned both the 70-200 f4 (non IS) and the new 70-300 f4-5.6 IS. The IQ of the 70-300 is surprisingly good, especially if stopped down 1 stop. It's very close to the 70-200 for most situations. The 70-300's build and handling is shakey at best. If you have the green go for the 70-200 f4 IS. That's going to be a great all around lens, the problem is the price won't start going down on those for a while.

Get a 50 f1.8 as well, you can't go wrong there. That will take care of your indoor stuff.

Don't be afraid to crank the ISO up to 1600/3200 in lowlight, if you don't have the aperture and need more shutter speed. The Canons' kick ass at high ISO's.

f4 / 1/1000th / ISO800 will give you the same exposure value as f2.8 / 1/1000th / ISO400 (just picked a random setting for the comparison.)
Old    Mike H. (mim3)      Join Date: Sep 2006       12-17-2006, 1:14 PM Reply   
Rich, You had me going, I was all set on the 70-300 until your comments on the build quality! I understand one zoom won't do everything. I would like a good all around indoor and out zoom. I think that is the problem, unless I go for the $1700 70-200 2.8L. So my choices are:

75-300 4-5.6 IS USM $350
70-300 4-5.6 IS USM $560
70-200 4L IS USM $1059
70-200 2.8L USM (non IS) $1139

I'll stop back in tomorrow and see what they will let me borrow.

Mom and the kids are getting tired of my chasing them around with the camera

Thanks.
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       12-17-2006, 6:21 PM Reply   
Mike, unlesss you've actually shot something where you know you absolutely need f2.8 I think you're putting too much emphasis on it over the 70-200 f4. I had a 70-200 f2.8 non IS (which is supposedly a bit sharper then the IS version). And while it took gorgeous shots when I look at all the shots I took with it very few of them were actually at f2.8.
Old    E.J. (deuce)      Join Date: Mar 2002       12-18-2006, 7:12 AM Reply   
Mike.... I am in a situation VERY close to yours. I purchased the 30D w/ 17-85 IS package. Then have been "deciding" what to get next. I was going to go with the 85 1.8 and then get the 70-200 2.8 IS version this Summer. I decided to just get the 70-200 2.8 non is now, then I can always sell if I choose to get the IS version.

I am very happy with the 17-85 as just something to bounce around with, though sometimes wonder if I should have bought body only and then the 24-70 2.8 Jed speaks of above. Then again, maybe I would notice a huge difference not having the IS of the 17-85????

Anyway, this is a learning process with the whole camera thing and a money pit, but I am enjoying the ride so far.

Here are a few shots from the weekend(and one that I took with a rented lens before). AGAIN, it is a learning process....so do not judge too harshly.....



***ADD**** Files too big.... I thought I had them reduced enough....but guess not.
Old    Mike H. (mim3)      Join Date: Sep 2006       12-18-2006, 1:39 PM Reply   
So, I went and picked up the 4L today. Thanks for the great discussion!

Sun was starting to go down, but I took a few pics outside. 1st impression....Fantastic! I shot this in auto sports mode. The original file size was 3348KB. I shrunk down to 1000x667 and then saved with 10% compression using JASC Paint Shop Pro. I can't wait to learn how to use this stuff!

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