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Old     (angrygolucky)      Join Date: Jun 2006       11-24-2006, 4:05 PM Reply   
O.k. Tried the comparison thread and hear from many Sanger owners, but only a couple of Centurion owners..
Would love to hear what you think of your boat, any dislikes? Any problems? Reliability? Details? etc...
Anything I should expect when I test drive, and anything I should pay attention to?
I'm looking at the Avalanche C4 but any centurion owner is welcomed to respond!
Old     (josnow1)      Join Date: Apr 2006       11-24-2006, 4:57 PM Reply   
I own an '06 Air Warrior. Its your basic boat, nothing fancy. BUT, as far as quality goes, its a great boat. Have 98 very pleased hours on it so far. The interior layout is nice and comfortable. The ride quality is super, it handles the rough-choppy water like a dream. The wake is a little sensitive but once you get it dialed in it's great. The surf wake is uncomparable IMO.
The only complaint I have is at 62 hours, one of the exhaust manifold gaskets blew. The dealer had my boat in and out to me within the same day.
My next boat will be the AVY C4 only because its a more luxury boat than the Air Warrior.
Old     (nyelland)      Join Date: Oct 2005       11-24-2006, 7:01 PM Reply   
I own an 05' Air warrior. I have never had a problem with the boat at 89 hours. What I like best about our boat is that it is an outstanding boat that performs well for a fair price. I agree with JoJo Snow that the wake is a bit sensitive. The merc. motor is so easy to work on and is reliable.
Old    brodster            11-24-2006, 10:26 PM Reply   
I have an '05 Tornado, and overall it's been an awesome boat. It gives a very solid ride and handles rougher water should you happen to get cought in it. (Which I have a few times!)

As far as issues, I've had some spider cracking around the cooler and in the floor of the bow area, which Centurion is currently fixing under warranty. The 330 hp merc has been great and has never skipped a beat. This hull is pretty sensitive to weight distribution, but I'm not sure if the Avalanche would be effected or not.

Fit and finish is very nice as well. I can't give any comparisons to Sanger because I've never been in one, but for us this has been close to the perfect boat. Skiing, wakeboarding and surfing. It's been great for all the above.

The one thing I will add, is if your going to custom order, make sure you get some sort of a comfirmation back from Kal Kustoms prior to manuf. We ordered ours custom, and it didn't come back the way we ordered it, even though I went through every little detail with my dealer. The order got messed up from KK to Fineline. Centurion/KK ended up compensating us for it, but it was definately a downer. We may have been one of the few that this has happened to, but my original dealer said it happened fairly often.

Isn't Sanger through KK as well? If so, that's something to think about either way you choose. Good luck with your decision!
Old     (c4avalanchen)      Join Date: Aug 2006       11-25-2006, 12:21 AM Reply   
Mike, I responded on your other thread.
Old     (06aw)      Join Date: Jul 2006       11-25-2006, 10:06 AM Reply   
I also own a '06 Air Warrior. I believe it is a smaller version of the avalanche hull. I have 86 hrs with only one issue which was a vendor issue not Centurion's. I really like the interior, it's one of the best IMHO, I would recommend getting the the bling package if you like something fancy. I think the quality of Centurions is up there with most. I only have knowledge of '05-newer Centurions so I don't know about earlier models nor have I have any experience with Sanger. My next boat will be another Centurion but the Avalanche C-4. I agree with JoSnow, it has a nice steep wake when dialed in, one of the best surf wakes out there, and great rough water ride. It also makes a big wake without a ton of weight. The only dislike I have is that it is a little weight sensitive side to side but that is why my next boat will be an Avalanche(wider beam). I hope this helps, Good luck deciding.
Old     (angrygolucky)      Join Date: Jun 2006       11-25-2006, 11:53 AM Reply   
The weight sensitive issue seems to be a result of the deeper v. Its a trade off.
Plenty of Sanger owners have responded about their boats, I've just been looking for the Centurion owners ( especially the newer models) to comment on the quality and any likes or dislikes/problems they've had.
As I posted before, the test drive will be huge for me, but there are some aspects that I wont be able to tell just from that, such as wake/weight issues, etc.
Thanks for the responses and please keep them coming.. Especially from the Avalanche owners out there!
Old    r3612            11-25-2006, 2:21 PM Reply   
Well here's a great summary of what I think of the Centurion line. As u know I"vbe posted on the other topic..

Centurion boats do a ton of things well and where the excel in is their rough water ride, solidness in the chop, and room and storage. They all drive very nice.

Here's my negative comments....If I wanted a boat to throw 2000lbs of weight in and was just concerned about wake performance I would own a Correct Craft. Hand down the wake would be much easier to blance and would have to worry about that sensitivity issue so much. But yup you guessed it I own a Centurion.....My wife along w/ myself prefere the ride that the centurion gives aolong with the nice deep interior for our 2 little ones. We don't like to get slammed on the days we choose to go out on the big lake. And I"ve been in all the top name boats on the big lake
I really like the wake shape of the Centurions think it's a perfect cross between the ramp of an MC and the Kick of a Nauty. I rarely ever ride with addition weight in my boat No one's factory wake will come close to a Centurions with the amount of kick it gives you just stock. Something I really really like. But if I was constantly throwing 2000 lbs w 5 peeps in it I would def want a different boat just because with that weight the sensitive wake issue starts to come into play.

That(wake issue) rarely happens to those wh ride with the factory ballast on their boats or just a little more(300-500lbs), but it appears when you start to weight it heavily. Also no one will touch the surf wake. Enjoy the test ride and post someof your thoughts on the differences you though on both boats. I'm sure we'd love to hear them...

Would steer you away from sideswipe, but that is up to you. It just gets to be loud every now and them, but again personal prefernce as some people love it
Old     (angrygolucky)      Join Date: Jun 2006       11-25-2006, 2:35 PM Reply   
I'm not looking @ Sideswipe. I would be looking @ the additional fuel tank and I think I lose a ballast..
How big are the factory tanks? ( rears are 23 gallon I believe? )
How much weight do you run?
If I do the long range fuel tank I'm sure I will have to get additional weight eventually, but I am a beginner. If it progresses I'm sure I'll want more, but is there a point where it maxes out? And when you get that much weight in there, is there anything that can be done to keep it from washing? ( I've read on a post that it likes weight in the front..)
I'll be scheduling test drive for the first week of december..
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       11-25-2006, 7:18 PM Reply   
Mike, I have a 2004 Lightning, the old hull. The rear tanks on my lightning are as you suggest about 23 gallons, that's 180 pounds each, I think the center tank is larger at 230 pounds.

This last year I replaced my stock tanks with 750 lb fat sacks. I also have 270 pounds of bag weights and I have 80 pounds of weights that I put on the tower. With the center tank and all of this weight my total ballast is over 2,000 pounds. At rest the swim platform goes about 5 to 6 inches below the water line.

My Lightning wonít come on plane with all of this weight and the stock prop, I havenít re-proped. When I run the rear sacks about half full, all the rest of my ballast, and with a crew of three to five, the wake is pretty big. My first time riding with all of the ballast I was a little intimidated. A few others that have ridden with me have likewise been impressed or intimidated by the size of the wake. Perfect pass has a lot of trouble maintaining speed with heavy ballast, I really should re-prop.

I wish I had an Avy, or really, wish I had an Enzo. Both of these hulls, as well as the new Lightning hull are true wakeboard boat hulls. My older Lightning hull has a ski heritage, itís good but could be better. I suspect that the newer hulls will handle extra weight better than my Lightning. The price on my Lightning was what I could afford at the time, no regrets.

The newer hulls should be better for wakesurfing than my Lightning. Iím spending half or more of my boat time wakesurfing now. I actually have a third 750 pound fat sack. I load up the rear locker 750, center tank, bag weight, and third 750 all to one side and build a very respectable port-regular surfing wake.

Iím putting about 150 to 180 hours on my boat every year and Iím working her pretty hard pushing large wakeboard and wakesurf wakes. I did have a Merc engine electrical problem this year. My dealer and Centurion did everything youíd want to resolve the problem, Merc sent them running around in circles; it was my dealer that really solved the problem.

Iíve spent a lot of time describing my ballast set up, there are many other things that I like about my Centurion, but my experience with other boats is somewhat limited, Iíve been in and behind several VLXs, and a Supra 21 SSV. My next boat will most likely be a Centurion.
Old     (soak_up_the_sun)      Join Date: Jun 2004       11-25-2006, 7:40 PM Reply   
We have an 04 Enzo. We bought it new last February. We love problems at all with the boat, trailer on the other hand seems to be a bit "off", the guides are off centered, but that's not Centurion, that's Boatmate.

We run factory ballast for my son and his friends and they say it's a great wake, even from the ones who have MC and Bu's. We generally run with 5-8 people, and when we weight it down, throw three of them up front, and the wake is clean. No ballast for me or other beginners on the boat, it's plenty big for me the way it is.

The layout of the interior is fantastic, plenty of room for people and gear. As mentioned before, I like the "deepness" of the interior. We tried out several other boats before deciding on this one, and that was one factor that really impressed me, especially when there are little ones on the boat...I have no fear that they are going to fall overboard, very safe feeling.

The walk through transom (different from the Avy, this one is below one of the transom pads and swings up on a hinge, again great for little ones) is a "must have" as far as I am concerned. Such an upholstery saver! The interior quality is better than some, not quite as luxurious as a couple others. Great for us.

I haven't been in a Sanger, but I hear (here) that they are great boats...but most are.

Drive all that interest you, and that you have access to, then make your decision.

Good luck, it's not easy!
(I don't think you'll be disappointed in the Centurion...)

(Message edited by soak_up_the_sun on November 25, 2006)
Old     (angrygolucky)      Join Date: Jun 2006       11-26-2006, 1:09 AM Reply   
Ed & Laurie, Thanks for the info!! Its all helpful!! If you guys ( or anyone else) thinks of something let me know...
Anyone know how much weight an Avalanche can take before the wake washes out? is it fairly clean at lower wakes?
I suppose down the road I could always decide to add the switchblade, but I want this to be able to ski as well..
Old     (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       11-26-2006, 10:47 AM Reply   
"but I want this to be able to ski as well"

What are you looking for whe you say that?
Old     (mobv)      Join Date: Jun 2002       11-26-2006, 11:10 AM Reply   
I don't think it is a matter of washing out. It doesn't need as much weight to get big due to the hull design. My son is a very advanced rider, we spend lots of time with about 1600 pounds of ballast and it makes all the wake he needs. It equivalent (in pop and hardness)to a X1, former X2, former X-star with over 2500 pounds. It is more verticle and therfore more sensitive to balance. We have had 1600 pounds plus 10 people in the boat and the wake is still clean (riding at 24 mph) it just takes a long time to plane out and is harder to drive. Anything over 2000 pounds is unnecessary for wake quality and just hurts gas consumption, where several other hull designs need that to develop a big solid wake.
Old     (angrygolucky)      Join Date: Jun 2006       11-26-2006, 11:17 AM Reply   
Was asking about the wakes, as I'm not going to add the switchblade. There will be some skiing behind this so I'll probably want to have as neutral setting as possible. Bad grammar, sorry it was late and I was tired!!
More wake questions I guess with ballast only.
Is it too much that will cause it to wash? Is there anything that can be done when that happens ( i.e. more weight in the front?)
George, where you you have that ballast placed in your Avy?
Old     (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       11-26-2006, 11:22 AM Reply   
The Switch blade is adjustable and can go to the neutral position. In the Neutral position the wake is no bigger than stock.

What I meant by my ski question is what kind of skiing? Slalom? just having fun on a pair? Serious slalom??
Old    r3612            11-26-2006, 11:45 AM Reply   
Can't really give you a true number on the max out of the Avy. Never spent that much time in one to messaround consitantly. We have had about 1600lbs and 7people and it was still great. It's a huge boat with a huge beam so it can take some weight for sure.

Ed was pretty much right on. That older hull maxed out around 500 in each of the trunks 300- in the nose and the centert tank filled with 4 adults.
Ed if you have the factory 4-blade....Dump that thing pronto...It's a dog for sure. Totally the wrong prop for that boat. How it made it out of the factory with that prop is beyond me.....Get yourself an Acme 3-blade #653 its a 13 X 11.5 You wil see a 10fold improvement with no loss of top end. I would assume you have the standard Merc 315hp towsports engine. If not then disregard the selection. ALso if you have a 3-blade on there now...You won't notcie much on the wake shape thing, but you will notice it on hole shot and maintaining speed. Just not as drastically a difference. Acme has recently come out with a pitch beyond the one I have recommended that has a different cup as well. If you are still running that amount of ballast consistantly it would def be worth checking that prop out as well. If I rode with extra weight all the time I"d be moving to that new one as well. Acme is great and they will let you send a prop back in exchange for another if you don't see an improvement.. It will also put your boat in a better "sweet spot" and save you fuel consumption and wear and tear on your engine. Will help with your speed problem tremendously and also clean up the wake a little believe it or not. I ownned that boat for a yr and half so am very familiar with it's performance. Also have you adjusted your KDW and NN settings on your perfect pass? Could give you some that will lock you in a little better to give you that speed control tweak.

We found the wake of that hull gave the best performance with about 300-400 on each side of the engine cenetr tank filled and 300 in the nose with about 4 adults and the wakeplate all the way up. Anything more than that in the rear gave it a very very steep transition that tended to curl at speeds below 23.5 So your right on track.....Try a 200-300 in the nose if you get a chance. It makes the take offs so smooth and the landing zones a little longer(so a bit softer/smoother landings.) Here' a couple pics of the old ride and the new rideUpload
stock ballst speed 23mph, line 75ft, rider is my buddy and he's 6ft1inch behind my Cyclone

And to answer your won't have to worry abouut the curl problem with just the factory setup at all. It will be perfect. Alos it will take more than over 1000lbs of extra balllast on top of the stock factory to even start to notice it effecting the wash issue. I don't think you have to worry about that at all...The Avy is least prone to that as that is their flagship wakeboat. The smaller 2 odels the Lightning C4 and the Cyclone are where it comes into play more often. It's just a short boat with a deep v. Since your not interested in the switchblade I would def opt for the hydraulic trim tab. Worth it's weight in gold for sure.

(Message edited by r3612 on November 26, 2006)
Old     (angrygolucky)      Join Date: Jun 2006       11-26-2006, 11:59 AM Reply   
No not serious slalom skiing... Recreational with the ability to get a little more serious if grown into...I'm looking at the long range fuel tank so this is another reason for the ballast questions...
Would the factory 4 blade fine for the AVy with a 330 Black Scorp?
And why on the trim tab? I've no experience with them...
and i'm looking at the long range fuel tank so this is another reason for the ballast questions...
(Message edited by angrygolucky on November 26, 2006)

(Message edited by angrygolucky on November 26, 2006)
Old     (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       11-26-2006, 11:59 AM Reply   
The most I ever had in an Avy was Stock triple ballast and 10 people in the boat.....It was not washed out and Know one was asking for more
Old     (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       11-26-2006, 12:03 PM Reply   
Recreational Slalom is no problem.
This is a wakeboard hull not a cross over boat. That would be the Enzo 216.

"Would the factory 4 blade fine for the AVy with a 330 Black Scorp?" YEs as long as your are not talking about 2000lbs of extra weight and 10 people then not so much
Old    r3612            11-26-2006, 12:26 PM Reply   
The stock prop is def doable on the Avy especially the one that comes with the 330. If It were me though I"d still drop down 1 or 2 for sure.

The props that come from the factory are props that make the boat perform best is all around use. From my experiences and from the long history of performance towboats it's not the prop that is best for watersports use. If you want the best otimal performance I would def "prop down" 1 or 2. You will see a much better hole shot (great for people like myself who fall ocassionally) Also fuel economy will be a little better as well as being able to hold speed. Even with pp you still will notice a bit of a boost. It comes into play mainly in turns.

So the factory prop on the 330 will do, but for optimal performance and benefit and to get the most out of your boat I would def prop down....besides yuo should always have a spare

Also with the fuel are loosing ballast, but not quite as much as you think as you're still adding fuel.

Also trim tab 4 sure because of it's advantages.

- you are going to want to ski you can help minimize the wake coming out of that boat by putting that thing down
- Helps the boat on cruisning. you can raise and lower the bow to adjust your running surface to give you a smoother ride. Especial helpful when wanting to cruise to another riding spot at full bore without emptying the boat's ballast.

-Helps shape a great can really dial in the curl

When you're wakeboarding you want that plate all the way up or barely dwon depending on the weight you're running. Problem is with a manual plate it's pretty much stuck were you set it. So it will most likely be all the way up. When you start to cruise even with the boat empty it will begin to porpise(sp) at higher speeds (happens to every wake/slalom boat PERIOD) so with the hydralic plate you can tap it town or raise it at your fingertips. Just makes the boat much more pleasant to drive and gives you a couple added bonuses. So to me its a must.

(Message edited by r3612 on November 26, 2006)
Old     (angrygolucky)      Join Date: Jun 2006       11-26-2006, 1:02 PM Reply   
I was suggested by the dealer to do the "stock 4blade" which was an upgrade, and then change the prop out when I progress to the point that I'm running heavier than stock ballast.. Gotta remember I'm a beginner on the wakeboarding thing, so I doubt I'll be wanting the hugest wakes possible for a little while. I'm asking about all this so I can decide on the boats and know what to expect. I'm leaning toward the centurion for a # of reasons. All of this discussion really helps!
I figure the prop change will come if I get to the point I want to pull out the rear tanks and put bigger bags in its place..
And since I would be doing the fuel tank, I'll probably see about some weight in the bow. When I get to that point, I'll tackle the prop. The trim tab on the other hand would make more sense now..

(Message edited by angrygolucky on November 26, 2006)
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       11-26-2006, 2:52 PM Reply   
KJ, I've got a 3 blade ACME, I forget if I have the ACME 515 or the 525. Karl DeLoof, is the WW prop expert. I definitely need more push.
Old     (c4avalanchen)      Join Date: Aug 2006       11-27-2006, 4:44 AM Reply   
Mike, the stock Avalanche wake will easily be plenty for you since you are a beginner. You probably won't even fill the rear tanks for a while, but that depends on your beginner skills.
Also, i'm not sure where you live, but if it's in a cooler (climate) area like myself, you will definitely want a heater and wind dam. Options such as Perfect Pass, depth-temp gauge, billet pkg, hydraulic trim tab, triple ballast and 330hp engine, are IMO, necessities.
Old     (sk_centurion)      Join Date: Oct 2006       11-27-2006, 8:42 AM Reply   
I bought a new 05 lightning Last year it is my first boat. I am fairly new to wakeboarding and I did progress a ton this year. The price was great for the boat it was part of the reason in me getting it. I love the boat I just have the center ballast and it puts out a great wake. I have two 500lbs sacks in the rear lockers and it makes the wake huge I was definatly intimidated when they are full. It has a great surf wake also I don't use a ton of ballast and I was able to surf with out the rope my first try. I think Centurion makes great boats and I would buy another one in a heartbeat.
Old     (ef3529)      Join Date: Nov 2003       11-27-2006, 10:18 AM Reply   
I have had 3 Avalanches. We have loved everyone of them. They keep getting better each year. The ride, stock wake, storage, solid construction, and finish are awesome. I put around 120 hrs a year and no problems with anyone of them.
Old     (superez)      Join Date: Nov 2006       11-27-2006, 11:24 AM Reply   
We own a 2006 Avalanche C4. We put roughly 67 hours on it this summer and have had no problems. We use the stock ballast for wakeboarding and have a clean wake on both sides. We use an additional 400 lbs for surfing if there is only a few of us in the boat. The Avy throws a great stock wake, and great surf wake as well.

The Avy is also great in rough water, plenty of storage, very comfortable and rock solid. Ours is pretty much loaded and my only mild regret is the side swipe....just a little loud sometimes but very tolerable.
Old     (sroot1)      Join Date: Aug 2005       11-27-2006, 11:47 AM Reply   
What does everyone think of the Avalanche with walkway verses the Avalanche C-4 with full wrap around seating and No walkway?
After reading some of the posts on passenger weight positioning I am leaning towards the C-4.
I wish the sideswipe had the option of switching to stern exhaust for most running, then switching to side ports for surfing.
Old    r3612            11-27-2006, 2:15 PM Reply   
Yeah that would be the ideal sideswipe sytem config for sure.

I"m not opposed to the walk through at all. Main difference is that the driver's side ballast is a bag instead of a tank. Still the same amount though if I recall correctly. The reason the C4 is better for more hardcore boarders is that you can add extra ballast and it will still be hidden...whereas if you decide to add extra to the regular walk through your walkthrough disappears so that kind of defeats the purpose. Also there is no ability to swap out the hard tanks for bigger bags as that space under the walkthrough is small. All in all though both boat have same factory ballast and same running surface so both are great. You just lose storage on the walkthrough and also some options.

If i were in the market for a bigger boat for a family I would be looking at the a tough decision because of the extra weight issue though.
Old     (gene3x)      Join Date: Apr 2005       11-27-2006, 2:54 PM Reply   
I love the wake on every Centurion I have been on loaded out. Someone said it right..... it is a cross between the Bu and 210. I do not like the angled walk thru bow though. I always seeem to hit my foot or knee on something.
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       11-27-2006, 3:10 PM Reply   
Hey, Scott, Take a look at Fresh Air Exhaust. It costs, less, reduces the noise level, and should be great for surfing.

I'd rather have storage space than a walk through.
Old     (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       11-27-2006, 5:02 PM Reply   
I am pretty sure that The sac that is under the walk thru does not fill the whole space you could change the sac to a larger one not a huge one but bigger than stock for sure. My dealer has a left over 05 with the walk thru

I will take a look and check for sure

"I wish the sideswipe had the option of switching to stern exhaust for most running, then switching to side ports for surfing." My thoughts exactlly!
Old     (p_e_ski)      Join Date: Jul 2004       11-27-2006, 5:35 PM Reply   
We have an 04 cyclone, which everybody says is a smaller version of the Avalance. Love the boat to death. Kinda wish we woulda waited a year or 2 because they have some better colors and options than what we got. but as far as the quality of the boat and wake, they are both awesome.
Old     (soak_up_the_sun)      Join Date: Jun 2004       11-27-2006, 7:55 PM Reply   
Go with the Enzo. No loss of room, plus you get the walk through, and it's hidden under the sun pad, so you don't even know it's there till you need it.
It's a win-win
Old     (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       11-27-2006, 8:14 PM Reply   
KJ, you were doing great until this:"it will begin to porpise(sp) at higher speeds (happens to every wake/slalom boat PERIOD)"... absolute bu**s**t! I'm on my third wake/slolom boat, two direct drives and a v-drive, as well as other peoples boats that did not have this problem.
Old    r3612            11-27-2006, 10:48 PM Reply   
Your boat with weight in it will porise at high speeds I"ve been in one and with some sacs still filled it did. All it takes is weight in the wrong place. I have owned an 88 2001, , a sport nauty, an air nauty. an 00 Air warrior 02 Hurricane and Now an 04 Cyclone...... my cousins own a ps 205(d-drive) and my brother in law owns a 205V and my uncle owns an Avalanche. My close freinds own a Supra 21V, Launch (d-drive),MobLSV, 205V, x-star, x-2 Supar Air All of them porpise at one point or another when weight was in the wrong places excpet the boats with the plates. It helps you compensate for that balance problem. Even with no ballast. Will guarantee it. I"ve been in pretty much every boat mfg and it will at one point or another. Never said is was a regular occurrence. The chance is just eliminated with the hydro plate

(Message edited by r3612 on November 27, 2006)
Old     (uga33)      Join Date: Jul 2003       11-28-2006, 6:04 AM Reply   
I'm on my 2nd Centurion. Great boat and great company.


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