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Old     (cjromero77)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-02-2006, 10:57 AM Reply   
I thought I'd write this thread for those riders who think it's never gonna happen because it finally clicked. W2W with pop no problem. It took me about 14 or 15 times out to actually get it. Yesterday was it.

I've read all the threads, watched the tapes, etc.. and wasn't getting it.

Here's the pathetic part. I'm 42 and marginally athletic. I'm a natural at the beginning techniques but require a lot of work to master intermediate or advanced stuff.

Up to yesterday, I had been riding frequently. Have my own boat, etc... and people are using my equipment (including my board) and seeing improvement.

When I first started riding (end of last season, 5 or 6 times) I could see myself doing basic tricks in my mind (grabs) as early as the following season. WRONG!!

Now I had to learn to get air. Man... I took forever. I literally had to learn each stage individually then put it together. I tried to put it together of 3 or 4 different occasions and even cleared the wake with good pop and air. But each time, it was that "oh crap" feeling and if I cleared, it was out of sheer circumstance as opposed to repeatable technique. In fact, I took two particularly hard crashes which gave me whiplash that scared me pretty bad. All in all, I went out yesterday feeling pretty emasculated.

Since there are folks out there who feel the same, I’ll share some experience with you. Maybe you can relate and this will help you “get it”.

Basically, I’ll bulletize a list of the problems I encountered, what I did at each “stage”. Since there are good threads on the technique of progressively edging, I won’t describe the technique. Just my approach on practicing till I got it to work for me.


1. Making the cut. This was tough. When I would go out to make the cut, the rope seemed to lose tense and I would lose energy. I could never seem to regain the energy back especially because I was “standing up”

Once I realized I needed to “sit” with bent legs I would do this immediately and cut hard. The cut would be so aggressive that I would do one of two things:
a. Sketch out, get scared and flatten my board
b. Over cut and wipe out severely before even getting a smidgen of air.

2. To fix that, I went out only half way. I still cut hard and “sat” immediately. So I was able to hold a good edge without feeling out of control at the wake. At this point I started applying a "progressive edge" because going right into the cut was still causing me problems with control. I start to create an angle then gradually sit back giving me better and better edge. The angle I chose got more acute as I got better. The idea here as to actually be able to ride my edge through the wake (cut through rather)

3. Now I began to work on the pop. There were a couple of problems I encountered here. Each one I worked on as someone watching would tell me what they observed. Some of the really good observations came from guys who didn’t know anything. Unbiased I guess.
a. Not pulling the handle to my waste caused me to roll over the board and not get a decent “pop”

b. Standing up at the wrong time
i. Before reaching the crest of the wake. This caused me to lose all my energy and land in the middle of the wake
ii. After leaving the crest. Once in the air, I would stand then compress my legs immediately. Again, losing energy and land in the wake.

c. Whether I stood at the right time or not, I would ALWAYS look for the landing and put my legs down to soon. Usually reaching with the forward leg. You can only imagine what a disaster that was.

4. Once the “pop” felt good I moved back out for more speed. Here’s where I think being “fearful” came into play. All the sudden the wake came to fast and was not comfortable performing the “pop” when I hit the wake. This really bothered me, because it took me 5 or 6 times more days of riding to be comfortable. I think the big problem here was I would immediately get on the board and “go for it”. I wouldn’t even let myself get comfortable riding. I would go out and immediately make a cut, ending in a huge crash. Of course I would feel more and more like a chicken crap effecting self-esteem and confidence (I mean in terms of riding)

Yesterday I just went out and made the cut without trying for the jump or the pop. 3 or 4 cuts so I know where the wake would be. The another couple stiffening my legs to get air. Zoom, wake to wake with about an inch or two clearance. That’s when I felt comfortable with the “pop” and went large (for me). Good pop, pulling the handle into my waste as my body rose. Tip slightly up and landing into the flat. “EUREKA”

Here’s the feeling I had. Everything happens as a transition. It wasn’t 1. Cut, 2. Pop, 3. Pull handle. That’s how you learn it, but one transitioned into the next.

Once I felt the transition, I was actually able to experience the “jump” as opposed to experiencing just the take off/landing and missing everything in between. In the air, I actually was able to look forward and to the sides with time. Not much time, but it’s a start.

Anyways…. Long thread, but I’m stoked. Though this might bore the crap out of the good riders, I’m sure someone out there grasping at the elusive air might appreciate it.
Old     (woohoo)      Join Date: Jun 2006       08-02-2006, 11:05 AM Reply   
Yeah thanks a lot That was a great thread, I'm in the same spot your were only being able to jump to the middle of the wake, with the info you gave me I think I will be able to get w2w next time out.
Thanks a lot Chris, I think I'll get it now.
Old    hyperlite_m            08-02-2006, 11:06 AM Reply   
thank you i know u wrote a lot but im gonna put all that to use this weekend i land every time on the top crest of the other wake not quiet far enough i will give it a shot.
Old     (just_board)      Join Date: Jul 2005       08-02-2006, 11:12 AM Reply   
awesome thread!

THIS is what wakeworld was made for!
Old     (anabolicone)      Join Date: Jun 2006       08-02-2006, 11:17 AM Reply   
Great post . Trying to get it every weekend. What length rope are you using?
Old     (cjromero77)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-02-2006, 12:03 PM Reply   
I'm using 55' rope. At one point, I was actually using 60' and didn't know it. That didn't seem to matter when I went back to 55'. You'd think it would. But mentally, I think I made whatever adjustment to place me right where I was. Going back to the 55' rope made it easier to just fall short of the wake.

Also, I got a hold of a couple of fat sacks which one of my partners wanted to fill immediately. So the first time out after I cleared the wake (one of those "oh craps" but miraculously cleared it) we made bigger ramp. Once again, I mentally stepped it down just enough to fall short of the ramp vice clearing it.

The lesson there was "its not the equipment, it's not the wake...its the technique".

Though length of rope should be shorter. That definitely makes a difference in how easy it is to maintain the edge. Maintining the cut is the hardest thing for me. Interestingly enough, I am much more comfortable toeside and I'm a foot away from clearing with no fear. Just trying to stay stable.

Glad you guys like the post.
Old     (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       08-02-2006, 12:06 PM Reply   
good post
my trouble is not clearing the wake....but doing it with pop
I have always charged the wake...confusing speed with line tension
I can hit it correctly both heel and toe side about half the time
coaches have stressed to me to slow down and do 1 handed edge changes
trouble now is finding smooth water to practice in
the wind here has been no rain, so we are a bit hesitant to venture into coves
Old     (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-02-2006, 12:54 PM Reply   
thanks for the post Chris, very detailed. If Hemmingway was still around he would have described the art of W2W the same way!
Old     (mhayes)      Join Date: Jul 2004       08-02-2006, 3:11 PM Reply   
Great post Chris! I am definitely in the same situation regarding most of the points that you mentioned, and I can relate to almost everything you wrote. Definitely going to try to feed off of this thread and get the wake-to-wake!!
Old     (asilaydying06)      Join Date: Jun 2006       08-02-2006, 3:30 PM Reply   
i've been having the same problem and i have a question about pulling the handle. when i start my cut, i hold the handle at my waist, sit and progressively edge. when i try to pop off the wake i keep the handle at my waist. is this correct? do you have the handle out as you pop and then pull it in or is it always at your hip? thanks
Old     (pottsy)      Join Date: Jul 2006       08-02-2006, 6:06 PM Reply   
thats a good question... im not sure if im doing it right, but what i do is pull the handle in right before i go off the wake to create more tension, im not sure if thats the right way to do it tho.
Old     (cjromero77)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-02-2006, 7:21 PM Reply   
What I started doing to get the pop, was arms slightly bent, handle at hip height. As you sit back, the arms relax more and naturally drop with hips and slightly move forward. They don't really move forward as much as the shoulders protrude. So you don't "straighten" your arms. There's always a slight bend. As you cut, the arms are "away" from your body.

Next, as the board edge enters the wake you "begin" to stand. I don't stand all at once. I transition so I'm standing tall at the top of the wake. You want to make sure, your not standing before the peak of the jump. Cuz like I said, loss of energy from standing tall too soon.

Simultaneously, my arms stay slightly bent and are always extended the same distance. As I stand the arms stay hip height and I pull the rope in to the hip. So at the top of the wake, I'm standing with a good arch and the handle is tight to my body, just below the naval right at the top of the wake on take off.

Basically, the deeper I sit in the cut, the farther away my arms, but still at hip height. At the top of the wake, my arms are closest.

Remember "transitional" motion. NOT "Ok... here it comes.... NOW!" That abrupt motion is disastrous.

The key arm motion for me is the arm extension. It stays the same. My elbows stay slightly bent and are no more straight nor bent. The rotation is at the shoulder.

Do a squat and have your arms stay hip level without bending your elbows. The motion is at the shoulder.

Don't know if the pros will say that's correct. But that's what got me the pop. I'd be happy to hear any tips on what I might be doing wrong.

Hope I'm at least describing it somewhat correct though.
Old     (pottsy)      Join Date: Jul 2006       08-02-2006, 7:39 PM Reply   
this is really helping me, im understanding it a lot better now, thanks a lot.
Old     (cjromero77)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-02-2006, 8:29 PM Reply   
Watch... next post I put up will be how bad I sucked last time out.
Old     (cjromero77)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-02-2006, 8:33 PM Reply   
oh yeah... hold the handle as wide as possible. That was a big help!
Old     (cjromero77)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-02-2006, 8:37 PM Reply   
I'd love to hear if anyone got results from the post good or bad. Even if you didn't clear it.

PRACTICE has been the key
Old     (jtd)      Join Date: Jul 2006       08-02-2006, 10:45 PM Reply   
Awesome post... I'm -- that close to clearing it.....this is gonna help alot!
Old     (asilaydying06)      Join Date: Jun 2006       08-03-2006, 12:45 PM Reply   
i'm going out tomorrow and i'll give it a try


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