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Old    Brett Wells (bwellsusmc)      Join Date: May 2006       07-14-2006, 7:45 PM Reply   
On the news this evening there was a story about boats and the effects that gas having 15% plus ethanol has on fiberglass gas tanks. Stated, "Its degregating the fiberglass and new boats are having to replace gas tanks after only a couple of years. Anyone else heard about this?
Old    Lucky275 (lcky275)      Join Date: Jul 2002       07-14-2006, 7:48 PM Reply   
Who has fiberglass tanks? Mine have either some sort of metal or plastic.
Old    Sparky Jay (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       07-14-2006, 7:51 PM Reply   
No, but I would never run fuel with ethanol in any of my vehicles! Alcohol is highly corrosive and fuel systems need to be properly set up to use it. It also pulls more moisture out of the air.
Old    Brett Wells (bwellsusmc)      Join Date: May 2006       07-14-2006, 8:00 PM Reply   
I was thinking surely boat gas tanks aren't made out of fiberglass. The report stated with some gas prices where they are many stations were getting more gas with ethanol to curb cost. Have not heard of that before. But if its true it coule really screw up some boat engines.
Old    David Williams (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       07-14-2006, 8:10 PM Reply   
I just read an article on this. It's mostly in older boats that used older fiberglass technology. Here is a quote from the article...

"BoatU.S. has found an engine-killing sludge in tanks built prior to the mid-1980s. The association theorizes the sludge could be the product of a chemical reaction between resin and ethanol. A BoatU.S. laboratory report indicates ethanol dissolves uncured phthalates in the fiberglass.

This is not a problem with newer tanks, which use vinyl ester resins rather than polyester resin, which was used in older tanks.

“The inhibitors the refiners use keep the ethanol from attacking metal, but can’t do a thing about fiberglass,” says Cohen. “If you have a fiberglass tank from pre-1985, just call it quits and yank it out before you blow your engine with hardened deposits. Not even Star tron can remove that baked-on plastic.”"

Click here to go to the article.
Old    Newty (newty)      Join Date: May 2005       07-15-2006, 8:55 AM Reply   
Don't crucify me on this but, I've heard from many sources that part of the reason for gas prices going up during the summer season is because oil companies are required to add more ethanol to gasoline because it burns cleaner and leaves less smog during the warmer months. The heat and less wind typically keep the smog from dissapating as quickly as the winter/cooler months. Gasoline has ethanol in it anyway it just has more in the summer.
Old    Sparky Jay (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       07-15-2006, 10:33 AM Reply   
If it has it in it, it has to be labeled as such on the pump. Some manufacturers' specifically say not to use it and it voids some warranties, therefore it must be identified. Not all gas has it in it.
Old    ilovetrains            07-17-2006, 9:22 AM Reply   
FYI - since the late 80's all gas sold in the US has been AT LEAST 2% ethanol. Most pump gas containes up to 10% and they do not have to list it as containing ethanol until it reaches 15%.

You all run it, you just don't know it.
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       07-17-2006, 10:03 AM Reply   
MTBE is a fuel additive that is being replaced by ethanol. soon, every gallon of gas will have ethanol in it. off the top of my head, i think its close to 10%

(Message edited by denverd1 on July 17, 2006)
Old    Sparky Jay (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       07-17-2006, 7:14 PM Reply   
Any articles or industry info to back this up?? My sources say only some companies are using it and they list it as an additive on the pump. Inquiring minds want to know.
Old    ilovetrains            07-17-2006, 7:25 PM Reply   
There is a fairly good article on the viability of ethanol as a motor fuel in the current issue of car and driver. they have been discussing the issue for some time, many articles. The current one gives some background both about how long it has been around as a supplement to gasoline and the federal standard for an oxygenate.

The 2% standard comes from the deletion of MTBE which already occurred. MTBE was used an oxygenate previously. If I understand it, MTBE was more directly linked to methanolt, than ethanol. Similar compounds, but from different sources and with different properties.
Old    autowiz            07-19-2006, 2:20 PM Reply   
AVOID Ethanol gives you horrible gas mileage and carbon buildup in engine.. Im And Auto Technician
Old    bocephus            07-19-2006, 2:30 PM Reply   
Look at Brazil,

Seems like a good deal to me, goodbye Middle-East and hello Illinois & Iowa farmers. E85 is a start!
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       07-19-2006, 3:00 PM Reply   
well that was the idea, but according to Boone Pickens (who has been in the oil industry for decades) if every agricultural acre of American soil grew corn for ethanol it would decrease our annual demand for oil by 3%.

Brian - is that true for vehicles that have been modified to run it? O2 sensors, fuel pumps, etc?}
Old    bocephus            07-19-2006, 3:14 PM Reply   
That's BS! My family has corn that has been sitting in dryers for over 5 five years and are paid a royal fee not to grow anything. This is in order to subsidize corn prices grown elsewhere. Brazil provides for themselves on used sugarcane pulp! Old Boone Pickens wants to stay in the oil business for a couple more decades. The oil companies don't want any part of a energy solution, they want more money!
Old    ilovetrains            07-20-2006, 8:11 AM Reply   
Many car makers offer E-85 compliant engines that are designed to burn ethanol. However, since Ethanol only 80% the energy content of regular gasloine, you lose about 20% in MPG.

Boone Pickens loyalties aside, the federal mandate for ethonal production over the next 10 years will require roughly 10x the current production of Ethanol. It is reasonable to assume that despite routine advances in farming, they will need to utilize roughly 10x more land for corn production that is used in Ethanol. Reportedly much of this will come from 30-40K acres of BLM land that are currently not farmed. As to what environmental impact suddenly converting that land to corn production will have, I don't know.

One final note, Brazil uses sugar cane, not a crop the US has access to make methanol. Brazil is also a net exporter of crude oil. Brazil does not allow foreing companies to compete for gasoline sales, all sales are though a state run 0 profit company. Theoretically, people in Brazil pay no mark up over the cost to produce the fuel, and bring it to the station. The price of unleaded gas in Brazil is currently around $4 a gallon. That would suggest that it is actually more costly to use sugar/corn based fuels that oil based gasoline.


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