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Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       07-02-2006, 6:13 AM Reply   
One of the issues that Centurion faced a few years ago at their World Wakesurfing Championships was that the regular side wake was better than the goofy side wake. As is typical at these things, folks complained. I believe it was last year that Centurion introduced a reverse rotating prop and that got the wakes on either side so close to equal you couldn't tell the difference. Realistically for our small grass roots contests we aren't going to have the resources to ask Sponsor "M" to provide us 2 boats - OH and by the way, would you reverse the rotation of the prop on boat number 2 :-)

My thought is that you require each participant to ride backside at some point in the contest - either switch backside on the same side of the wake, or backside on the other side of the wake. In this way, you really determine the best all around rider and I think you step up the riding for everyone. You diminish the impact of a wake that is better on one side than the other. AND for those of us that can't ride backside, we provide entertainment for the judges. :-)
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       07-02-2006, 8:00 AM Reply   
I do have some fresh perspective on this subject. Yesterday I was at a wakesurfing contest at Morse Reservoir, north of Indianapolis Indiana, sponsored by Morse and Geist Lakes Inboards and Malibu. The event was small fun and friendly Ė had a great time. This was the second year for the event. I was told that last year many riders could only line ride, I donít think any did line rode this year. Eleven entered the competition four had a goofy stance (36% goofy). All of the surfing runs were made on the port-regular wake.

The competition was run in a variation of bracketed double elimination heats. The five first round losers (myself included) were taken out for another heat, two best of which would go out again and compete to be once more in get into the final top-4 heat (I missed by one point). On the first round losers heat there were two regular and three goofy stance riders. Only the two regular stance riders made it past the first round losers heat to the pre-finals heat, clearly a strong bias against the goofy stance.

At least one of the goofy riders didnít know that he wouldnít get to ride the starboard wake. In the first round loserís heat Pat and Mark from the Malibu dealership did offer to switch the configuration but for some reason the goofy riders decided to just deal with the port wake.

I think all the riders want a fair opportunity, I have tremendous respect for the goofy surfers that rode heels side Ė some for the first time.

Iím organizing a competition this August and so Iím keenly interested to hear what goofy stance riders would like in a competition. What I heard at Indy was they wanted a good starboard wake. Malibu boats will also be towing at our competition in Columbus. Iíd like to hear from goofy (and regular) stance Malibu owners and riders on their surf setup, if you have set up advice email me, see my profile.

I live in the Midwest, there arenít a lot of ocean surfers around here, so in the beginning weíre not going to have many skilled surfers. If we have a local good goofy stance rider I want to make entering and competing a good experience, one to come back for.

What I had planned to do was group riders by stance and then:
A) run one stance,
B) reconfigure
C) run the other stance
D) reconfigure
E) run the first stance a second time
F) reconfigure
G) run the other stance a second time

Thatís three configuration changes at a time cost of five to ten minutes each. If I took Jeffís suggestion the competition would run as follows:
A) run all riders on one wake
B) reconfigure
C) run all riders on the other wake

Looks like I need to work on my heel side.
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       07-02-2006, 9:14 AM Reply   
Ed, I have to be honest with you. While the two heats is great fun, it won't change the outcome of the event. Offer a practice run BEFORE the competition and then eliminate the second heat. In EVERY contest that I've been in, including the worlds, at the amateur level, the second heat doesn't TRULY affect the outcome. A longer practice run or in fact HAVING a practice run (the world's doesn't and our NorCal INT League doesn't either) gives a better outcome for most folks. I think your format looks fine, but I would eleminate items D thru G and offer a practice time or a longer practice time. Now, do you plan to offer a single run as two passes? (Up and back being a single run). That is pretty typical, in our NorCal INT League the time constraints and the length of the course prevent a two pass run.
Old     (mudsurfer)      Join Date: Nov 2005       07-02-2006, 10:24 AM Reply   
Hey Jeff, Were you out on twin thursday in a tiga? I think you had chase hazen popin some big air's, If you have any goofy riders that need a pull I am out there all the time. my sanger has a reverse rotation prop and from what i have been told one of the better darkside wakes out there. Have you ever put a reg and a goofy boat side by side to make a half pipe ?
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       07-02-2006, 10:59 AM Reply   
Jeff, my first run at the Indy event was dismal. The competition wake was steep, short, not to my liking, others had a similar assessment, so again Malibu guys email me I know Iíve seen some really good Bu wakes. Toward the end of the competition we had about eight people in the boat and the wake improved a little. Starting with practice runs might let us start early, those that register early can practice while late arrivals sign up.

How long do you let each rider go in the CA INT events? At the Indy event each rider was given 7 minutes from possible to free ride to end of ride. No penalty for falling but recovery time to pick fallen riders went against your seven minutes.

The only wake I've ever surfed before is mine, a trial run would have been helpful.

I didn't like the bracket elimination process but it is easier to compare two riders at a time than score two dozen and add the numbers up later. If you had a big event it would take a long time to run all the riders through the brackets.
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       07-02-2006, 11:55 AM Reply   
Hey Scott, no that wasn't us. James and Chase have been wanting to get Chase out behind our boat, but we just haven't made that happen as yet. I have ridden a two boat setup, but that was in...shoot, Idaho or Washington, I think. I do believe it's technically illegal in CA. I had to laugh at the darkside reference, THAT is what all goofy stance riders should do is wear a skull and cross bones t-shirt and call thmselves the darkside riders :-)

Ed, we stole the rules that Tim Lopes and Jerry Price created for the original Worlds. Two passes through a set course, up and back. You get one fall outside the course and two ON the course per pass. So after your second fall, the boat takes you to the other end and if you are set up for a two pass run, you'd start back on the second pass. With our current time constraint we pick up the fallen rider and motor to the opposite end and put the new rider out. As such there isn't a time limit per rider, just a length of course and fall limit.

We currently are limiting the number of riders to 20, within 4 divisions. (to try and stay within the 2 hours we are alloted) To keep the weight within the USCG weight recommendations, we limit the number of riders to 4 per boat and...load all the riders in the boat for that heat. Then set off. We try to group all riders in a division together so the judges can get a clean doesn't always work.

The world's last year had a chase boat and riders staged at a dock. After your last fall, the chase boat picked you up and the towboat went off to get the next rider. Nice if you can afford it :-)

The most FUN contest I enetered was in New Mexico last year, they didn't hold it this year. What they did was drive in a huge circle and you could ride as LONG as you wanted, but you only got two falls. After your second fall you were done. So in that situation, you could gradually warm up and then start ripping after you were comfortable with the wake. That contest, for...less than 20 riders took about 6 hours...but like I said, it was the single most fun contest I have entered.

The trial or practice run would help just about everyone out. The advanced riders can toss a three or an air and then make adjustments to the launch location when they are in the contest. For newbies, they can get some assistance during practice on where to stand and locate the board. Plus the time in the boat with everyone just hanging out is worth the price of admission. :-)

You'll have plenty time at your Scioto Wake Fest, so I would certainly recommend the practice run...make sure that everyone knows when it starts, or you'll get grousing from folks that arrive late.

(Message edited by surfdad on July 02, 2006)
Old     (gary_in_ia)      Join Date: Jul 2004       07-02-2006, 4:36 PM Reply   
Back to your original question, your proposal still creates an advantage to regular foot surfers. Here's a suggestion: If your planning a series of events, which I think you are, perhaps for half of the events, you could have either your current boat sponsor or another boat manufacter to provide a boat with the CORRECT sided wake. So in half the events, regular footers would have an advantage and in the other events the CORRECT footers would have their advantage.
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       07-02-2006, 6:55 PM Reply   
I still like "darkside" as the nomenclature. :-)Certainly one side of the wake will ALWAYS be better than the other, we can get them close, but the rule of thumb we work with is 80%. If we work within that guideline, it seems to me that it's about as good as it's going to get and if we require backside for 1 run, that's about as "equalized" as we can get, don't you think, Gary? The problem we have if we JUST have one side available, is that participation declines rapidly...folks just choose not to ride...and instead COMPLAIN! :-)


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