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Old    Flux (flux)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-22-2006, 10:10 AM Reply   
So I spent a few hours going over the 02 SANTE trying to find the ballast control wires and see where they split. I managed to match the 2001 40 pin harness wiring diagram and found the two control wires. I had very little luck finding the splicing points, especially for the belly tank, they are tucked way in there in the main raceway back to the engine. The other splice points are buried behind the eninge I am screwed as far as doing this in a simple manner, looks like I would need to rewire the whole thing.

I would like to find the points where they junction so I can wire in independent ballast control. Basically the idea is to still use the dashpod controls as main on/off switches and then put in some rocker or toggles to control each aerator pump individually.

So I did find the two main wires coming from the 40 pin harness, they are orange/red & orange/yellow. Does anyone know if these two wires are thick enough to handle the power for all three pumps each when filling or emptying?? I may try to tap them at the dash into a switch panel and run new power wires to all the pumps.

Has anyone done this ballast modification to their 02?? I would really like the ability to tune the wake and empty individual tanks for surfing.

Could there be a bigger mess than what CC did under the 210 kick panel?? What a nightmare!! Looks like they just get in there with zipties and and tape and jam everything together. Ugh. There is alot of waste in there, they could have mounted amps and put a sub in there if they had some ambition to do things clean under there. Also looks like the absolutely have to wire the boat before dropping in the engine and tanks, no possible way to get at alot of the wiring.
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       06-22-2006, 11:17 AM Reply   
Yes Flux I feel your Pain. I would like to Punch the guy in the face that makes the wires go straight threw the floor on all Nautiques. Your correct there is lots of space there that can be used for many things and nautique just squanders it away. Here are some Pic's of a 30 hr clean up job. All cut wires are solder and shrink tube'd Sorry I dont know the answer to your questionUpload
Upload
Upload
Old    Flux (flux)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-22-2006, 11:43 AM Reply   
Thanks for your response Grant, this was my fourth post on 2 forums and all I heard was crickets chirping. If my kick panel looked like your picture number 2 I would have a sub in there tomorrow. It actually looks worse than pic number 1 because my heater is stashed in there and there are a bunch of 2/0 gauge battery and alternator wires coming up to the switched mounted on the front of the kick plate. We all know you do good work and share your knowledge.

It has been an interesting endeavor though. Mostly I find myself asking "WTF were these guys thinking??" So many great aspects of the boat and then you try to hunt anything down and it's buried in a rats nest of flex tubing, zipties, and electrical tape. Then try to trace the wiring as it disappears beneath the floor, splices in unknown locations, and is hidden in another rats nest only accessible by removing the engine and the ballast tanks. The sad thing is that they definately went through the trouble of making nice wips from the connectors, but then they just hang them in the breeze.

I am thinking my only option is to start from scratch and rewire each pump from a switch panel and feed them off the two wires from the black box/dashpod. I will document this and post it.

Can anyone veriy if I got this diagram of my battery switches correct??

battery switches

What all is in this box?? Are there relays in there too?? Does this thing provide the power to everything that is not remotely relayed?? Are the power terminals used as junction points for other stuff?? Confusing for sure.

black box
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       06-22-2006, 12:20 PM Reply   
Flux: If I was you I would make a harness with alll the wires your gonna need to the pumps solder and shrink tube it and then put it in a nylon enclosed wire wrap and just re-run power to the pump's rather than tap into your stock wire set up if you do it correct it will be better than stock
Old    Flux (flux)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-22-2006, 1:01 PM Reply   
An excellent suggestion. I was just checking out marine wire on Westmarine. They have bundled wire with 4 conducters in a nice jacket. Maybe just run 3 sets to the 4 locations and run it off a panel with a breaker and a relay for main power that uses the ballast button on the pod.

Thanks for the input, I hate all fill or all empty, the SAN needs a tweakable ballast.
Old    Cliff Griffin (seattle)      Join Date: Mar 2002       06-22-2006, 5:36 PM Reply   
Nice Flux and Grant,

You guys just made my weekend pump swap much easier.

Flux,

I'm going to add a Fly High center sack to my boat as it didn't come with center ballast. I plan on using a Simer pump that I'm going to install in the little cubby just behind the driver's seat. I was thinking about trying to tie this in with the existing switch until seeing this post!

Grant,

In your pics the heater unit is forward of the kick panel. I plan on putting a heater in the boat as well and I was wondering if that's something you did, or if that's OEM install from the factory?

OBTW,

I hear you were interested in one of these.
Upload

I may be persuaded to do a little bartering.
Old    Flux (flux)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-22-2006, 9:48 PM Reply   
Cliff, Grant was correct in telling me to start from scratch with the wiring. I took another look tonight and what I want to do would be redundant, I would have wiring going back and forth from the dash to the pumps for nothing really. It serves better to go direct.

As for the heater, mine is under the dash right next to the hole where all the wiring comes up. There is a perfectly useless cooler under the bow seat in front of the driver. I have a feeling Grant may have cut the cooler out of there and relocated the heater up there. I would do the same if I planned on cleaning up the wiring to add a big sub in there, but not this year unfortunately.

Definately add a breaker in front of that Simer pump and keep it accessible for changing the impeller and troubleshooting. If you want any pics of the aerator pump setup that fills and empties the belly tank on my 02, just ask. I am sticking with aerators, they seem to work really well and are reliable and inexpensive. They empty and vent through hoses that go up through the floor hole under the dash. Gran't second pic shows where he extended them and the bilge hose so they sat flat.

Good luck with your install, your wake will be much nicer with the centered weight. I am trying to figure out what bag to use to replace the hard tanks. Maybe some custom Pro-X if they are not too pricey.
Old    Cliff Griffin (seattle)      Join Date: Mar 2002       06-23-2006, 7:23 AM Reply   
Flux,

I installed a completed system using Simer's on my old boat I still have a brand new one on the shelf so I decided to go that route again. I bought the Pro X bag for the front locker and it fits perfect when full. My boat doesn't have the wedge style tanks in the back, they are flat and take up the entire rear on either side. I plan on adding 200lbs of lead Pop Bags on either side, and another 200lbs evenly distributed under the cushions in the nose. For now I'll be running about 1350lbs of ballast and hopefully that will be sufficient. If not I may end up taking the back hard tanks out and replacing them with Pro X sacks.

I'm definitely going to install the heater forward of the factory location. The OEM location looks as if it's a complete waste of space and I already have a sub up in there so I wouldn't want to have to relocate it.
Old    Flux (flux)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-23-2006, 8:01 AM Reply   
The wedges are cool, but not nearly enough weight. We have been throwing sacs on top of the wedges, probably getting about 450 on either side total. We also put a 400lb sac in the bow. We trailer everywhere and don't wanna haul lead around, other wise I might add a few hundred here and there. That put's us at about. 1600 lbs total and the wake is very nice. You will be pleased with 1350, but will probably want more after a while.

Good luck with your install, but you've done this before.
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       06-23-2006, 8:06 AM Reply   
Cliff: That's a swimdeck that Jason Black made. That thing is real nice. What are you talking about when you said barter for one? I didnt think Jason was going forward with making to many of them.?
Old    Craig (yosquire)      Join Date: Jun 2005       06-23-2006, 8:33 AM Reply   
Flux,

There are devices out there that allow you to track a wire that's behind a wall, or buried underground. You hook a transmitter up to one end of the wire, then the sensor will tell you where the wire is. You sweep the sensor over the surface and a tone goes off when you cross the wire.

These devices are commonly used in telecom applications. If you know someone who works in that field or an electrician, they likely have one. Maybe you could take your boat to a telecom shop and use their tool in the parking lot. I suppose after you paid for there time and hassle, it might be cheaper to buy one.

Here's an example of the basic tracker. With good batteries, these can sense a wire from about 10 inches away: http://www.action-electronics.com/tracker.htm (also see Home Depot)

They do make real fancy ones that can sense through sheet rock and ground upto about 10-15 feet. Those things run about $250.. I just found the underground sensor: http://tmt.stores.yahoo.net/cauguncalo.html
Old    Cliff Griffin (seattle)      Join Date: Mar 2002       06-23-2006, 1:50 PM Reply   
Grant,

When I bought his boat he gave me both the custom deck and the original teak. Watcha got for trade.
Old    Flux (flux)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-23-2006, 2:20 PM Reply   
I just placed an order for 3 rocker switches, 3 6-Amp Breakers, 1 10ga inline fuse holder, a bosch 30-amp relay, and 50 feet of 14/4 marine wire.

The way I see it, I will have the main power coming through the fused connection 20 amps, through the relay which is tied into the dash pod, then through the individual push button breakers, and on through the rocker switches to the pumps.

So I can never run the ballast by accident without the dash and battery switches on and the circuit is protected twice from any screw-ups that might happen. I got the nice marine grade tinned wire, 14 ga for minimal voltage drop, and 4 jacketed conducters for cleanliness for the home runs under the deck. No need for the flex tubing, it will all be neat and tidy and clear as to what is what

Which makes me wonder why Nautique uses millions of loose wires wrapped in the flex stuff?? They could have used nice bundles of multiconductor wires and probably saved a crapload of time?? Maybe its' all the color coding they have to do.

All that is left is deciding what ballast bags to use. I did some calcs and it looks like the max I could get in each locker with a few inched on top for vest storage would be about 450-500 each side. It would most likely need to be a custom bag as the back of the boat has some wierd angles. The X-series bags are sweet, and for 200 I can get two 400 lb bags that would easily fit.

Has anyone with a 210 stuffed those 700 lb bags back there?? How did it work out?? Anyone have custom bags made??
Old    Fluid Concepts (jlembas)      Join Date: Apr 2002       06-23-2006, 4:17 PM Reply   
Flux,

I assume you are trying to tie into the stock electronic ignition panel. We did a custom install on my friends boat and his electronic ignition had three switches for the ballast system. Finding the wire ends are truly a pain in the ass. We eventually found them (all were taped up in the main wire loom at different points throughout the boat). In his boat, all the ends had resistor termination.

Anyway, after wiring in the fill/drain pumps and the electric valves we found a design flaw in Nautiques electronic panel. You may have the same problem. Turns out that they didn't incorporate shunt diodes in the controller box.
What this does is cause the computer and ignition to hiccup everytime the ballast pumps are turned off via the buttons on the dash. In my friends case, the motor would die for split second. Took us a while to figure that one out. We ended up installing shunt diodes on the relays that controlled the ballast system and it fixed the problem. Now he has complete control......front, back, and side to side. Good luck.
Old    Flux (flux)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-23-2006, 9:40 PM Reply   
Fluid,

I owe you huge for the heads up on this. I have smartpod that is on the 02 210's, and the 01's as well. I have a wiring diagram and basically there are three wires that come out of the big wiring harness that plugs into the black box, 2 power for fill & empty, and a ground. I managed to track them down for the most part throughout the boat.

I will only use these wires to energize a main relay, the power for the ballast system will come directly from the battery switch terminal. This gives me somewhat of a failsafe in case a button get's pushed accidentally and I forget to turn the battery switches off. Essentially I will be removing the amp load from the black box.

I did a quick googlesearch on this and it seems that the relays cause a voltage spike when turned off, probably what was messing with the black box for sure. I was going to use a simple Bosch automotive relay. They make prewired harnesses for them, some with what they are calling "a prewired diode across the coil". Does this sound like it would be the ticket for avoiding that hiccup??

I can't thank you enough for bringing this to my attention, I would have crapped my pants and started crying if I fried the Nautique. My buddy who co-owns it with me probably would have drowned me. I owe you a 12 pack for sure.
Old    Cliff Griffin (seattle)      Join Date: Mar 2002       06-23-2006, 9:59 PM Reply   
Smile and Wave Boys... Smile and Wave.

I went with a stand alone Simer pump system tonight. No problems. Tapped in to the factory scupper. The center sack fills in just under eleven minutes. There's something to be said about my old Moomba's simplicity! I think Nautique engineers have wayyyyyyy too much time on their hands!!!

OUT!
Old    Fluid Concepts (jlembas)      Join Date: Apr 2002       06-24-2006, 11:24 AM Reply   
Flux,

You're correct with the research. That is exactly the relay harness you need. Or you can wire it up yourself.

We did the same in my friends boat....wired everything through relays since we had a good deal of pumps etc. Works like a champ now. Although if I remember correctly, I think my friend had three drain and fill wires.....Or maybe it was 3 fill and 1 drain....either way there were too many beers. haha.

It was definitely worth the effort.

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