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Old    Brett Treiber (pc_sledge)      Join Date: Jan 2006       06-22-2006, 5:15 AM Reply   
I've heard from my dealer that MC will be introducing a 400 HP engine for next year, and I thought he said it would be the standard engine for some of the largest models. Has anyone else heard of this or have any more information regarding MC changes for 2007?
Old    Matt Cour (mcsammamish)      Join Date: Jun 2002       06-22-2006, 1:44 PM Reply   
Will probably be the same engine that Malibu has had for a while. The Hammerhead 383 6.2L 400HP. I guess this means Malibu won't have the highest HP small block availble anymore. Oh, except may the Corvette LS7 500HP.
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       06-22-2006, 4:45 PM Reply   
oo, oo, I hope it'll burn more gas than the current MCX. That'd be rad. Then we could fill up 3 times in a day instead of twice.

Honestly I think the answer is to make a more efficient boat, not a bigger motor. I don't even need 400hp in my truck and I cruise at 85 no problem.

Just something to think about. I will say that my 350 horse MCX sucks way more gas than my 315 horse motor did in my Sanger.
Old    Luciano Grimblat (luchog)      Join Date: Jun 2002       06-22-2006, 5:36 PM Reply   
CIE you have a point there, this whole wakeboat/engines thing is getting pretty crazy, and costs are only getting higher and higher.

how big must a boat be? how much HP is needed? how much weight do you really need???

I know it all comes down to personal preference, but in what boarding refers a 21 feet boat with a 330hp engine is more than enough for almost ANYONE who rides.
Old    Daniel (deltaboarder)      Join Date: Jan 2005       06-22-2006, 7:10 PM Reply   
My friend has the vortec 8.1 in his Mastercraft and I could have sworn it has well over 400hp maybe closer to 450. That thing get the boat out of the hole like its nothing but I've seen it go through 55gallons twice in one day. Makes me happy my little sangers tank lasts so long
Old    patrick (grenade)      Join Date: Nov 2002       06-22-2006, 7:35 PM Reply   
biggest small block. 8.1L is a big block, its something like 475 i think, things a beast..I've heard a rumor of a supercharger for the MCX, anyone know anything?
Old    P. Van Every (boss210)      Join Date: Jun 2006       06-22-2006, 9:35 PM Reply   
Every one is allways worried about Horse Power. F-that, the biggest big rig has only about 350 hp. Horse power is only the after afect of torque. No troque no go. The 383 Hamerhead sucks, it should only be availabe to boats that need to run over 5500 rpm. Dose anyone ever wakeboard at 5500?. No f-ing way!!
TORQUE is what is needed in comp boats, dont spend the extra $ unless you plan to Barerfoot...
After all most wakeboard boats ushally only see 25 to 27 mph when fully loaded, witch for most props is 2600 to 2800 rpm. The horse power most new high output engines are measuring max HP at 5000 rpm & over.
TORQUE is the awnser to a good comp boat engine.
Old    norm (bigworm)      Join Date: Dec 2004       06-22-2006, 9:43 PM Reply   
phillip you are correct about torque being a bigger deal than hp, but biggest big rig only having 350 hp? that is not correct my dad owns a trucking company his truck has 600 hp and 1900 ft lbs. of torque this hauls 40 tons all day long. i think a better answer would be to detune a long stroke small block and making it more efficient and more torquey.
Old    norm (bigworm)      Join Date: Dec 2004       06-22-2006, 9:44 PM Reply   
oh and i dont ever plan on seeing the ls7 in boats everyone of those motors are hand built... talk about expensive... and expensive to run
Old    P. Van Every (boss210)      Join Date: Jun 2006       06-22-2006, 9:47 PM Reply   
I did say about, and you do get the point..
Old    Mike Parker (roughrivermike)      Join Date: Apr 2006       06-23-2006, 5:29 AM Reply   
I don't know about a new standard engine, but I do know that there is going to be some changes in the MC engine. I have an 06 xstar and I am considering changing every year or two. My MC dealer told me that next year they are going to have catalitic convertors on them. That is just hearsay, but it makes sense. He told me that they have been selling them that way in certain markets for a couple of years.
Old    Tommy (lakeguy77)      Join Date: May 2002       06-23-2006, 6:45 AM Reply   
Depending on the quality of catalytic converter they use, this could be a good thing for wakeboarders, particularly where the manufacturer mismatches the boat with an engine more given to high-rpm operation, given that a little backpressure in the system will shift the power/torque curves down in the rev range, and only really peak power (and therefore high-rpm operation) will be negatively affected.

And norm and phillip hit the nail on the head. In the biggest rig, it ain't the horsepower gettin' the work done, it's that 1900 ft lbs. of torque, and in a wake boat, that's what's getting your 1500 lbs. of ballast out of the hole.
Old    Lil Tuna (rmack)      Join Date: Jul 2005       06-23-2006, 6:47 AM Reply   
TWO SPEED TRANSMISSION!!!!!! Why aren't other manufacturers following MB.
Old    Jon (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       06-23-2006, 8:04 AM Reply   
A prop can change more than anything. If you are not worried about going fast 300hp with the correct prop will do anything you need it to.

The cat converter is a good idea. That should help with CO too.
Old    Malcolm Campbell (senna1)      Join Date: Jun 2006       06-23-2006, 8:25 AM Reply   
Indmar, who private labels MC's engines, is putting catalysts on all 07 engines. They claim no power loss. Here is the press release:

http://indmar.com/news/newsroom_article.cfm?id=31
Old    Ben (schackdaddy)      Join Date: Dec 2005       06-23-2006, 2:58 PM Reply   
The biggest thing about HP and torque is where they are on the curve. A motor is most efficient when the max Hp and max Torque are with in 200 rpm. A super would be a nice addition if done correct. Superchargers if done right are very reliable and actually use less fuel and the engine burns more efficient. But done right is the key, where not talking dragster here, just a reliable, efficient, and strong motor.

Norm, your talking a diesel motor though right? Be nice to see a boat comapany put the duramax in a boat to see the performance. Maybe one day.
Old    bocephus            06-23-2006, 3:19 PM Reply   
Superchargers are not the way to go IMO. Now Turbos would be great! Look at UNCHAINED's motor on the hotboat.com forum, wicked! Turbos would be great since we have access to a huge radiator (the lake) to keep things cool. I thought Sessions was putting a diesel in some boats? As far as HP goes in boats, the 305 in my old MB would rip the damn handle out of anyone's hands period! Why don't we just prop the boats correctly, it's not like I need a top end in my SAN.
Old    Matt Anderson (xaggie)      Join Date: Nov 2002       06-23-2006, 3:36 PM Reply   
Hmm We have the 8.1 in our '04 X-Star and we would be pushing to burn a full tank in 1 day. We have done it before but that was running full ballast and 9 people boarding from 9 am to 9 pm. You don't have to push it nearly as hard to get moving or stay at speed. We must just not be as hardcore as your friend Daniel. Cheers
Old    David Polk (smackus)      Join Date: Apr 2004       06-23-2006, 3:53 PM Reply   
What about a cold air induction system that uses the lake water for an intercooler. It would make the most difference using a compressor (turbo or super) however even without though an intercooler for the air would be a plus.
Old    TK (swab791)      Join Date: Mar 2005       06-23-2006, 4:42 PM Reply   
The NEW Motor that MC is using in a 6.0 LITRE GM motor LY-6. 400 HP 425 FT/LBS of torque. The HammerHead is like the Mercrusier Motor Bored and Stroked 350 ci. The NEW motor is susposed to be AWESOME.

Indmar is putting cats only on the MCX motor or its equivilant. The base motors are not getting cats. INDMAR is not supercahring the MCX
Old    Tommy (lakeguy77)      Join Date: May 2002       06-24-2006, 2:47 PM Reply   
Turbo motor would be useless in a wakeboard boat due to lag. You'd need a pretty small turbo to spool quick enough to make any power in the 2400-3000 rpm range that you ride at, and anytime you back off the throttle, it takes time for the turbo to spool back up, and you lose your low-speed responsiveness. A supercharger would be the optimal choice if you want forced induction in your boat, but contrary to what was previously posted, at a given engine speed, when you run boost, you're pushing in more air, and for more air you need more fuel. Under no circumstances will a supercharged engine get better mileage that its non-supercharged counterpart, all else being equivalent. On top of the air-fuel mix issue, there's also huge parasitic power loss involved with a supercharger. On average, to produce 8 pounds of boost, an engine has to produce 70 horsepower just to spin the supercharger.

As an example from the automotive world, GM's 3.8L V6's are put out in both naturally aspirated and supercharged versions. With 2.93 final drive, the supercharged 240-hp version gets about 28 mpg on the highway. Yet the non-supercharged 200-hp version, with it's 3.29 final drive, is revving 300-400 rpm higher on the highway, yet gets 30-32 mpg. Keep in mind, the supercharged version, in this situation, is NOT PRODUCING BOOST, the bypass valve is open and it is operating in vacuum like a naturally-aspirated car. That's the difference, just in driving that supercharger with no load on it. Add to the fact that you must run premium fuel in a boosted application, and the cost of operation goes up pretty significantly.
Old    bocephus            06-24-2006, 3:22 PM Reply   
Tommy,
With a properly tuned TURBO charged engine there is no lag PERIOD! In consumer automotive usage the turbo is setup to have a turbo lag to aid in cooling, and fuel economy. A turbo has very little parasitic drag on a motor. Look at Unchained's motor on the hotboat.com forum if you want to see a turbo setup with no drag. It can be done very easily. A turbo doesn't have to be fully "spooled" to produce boost, only in some automotive applications.
Old    jt12            06-24-2006, 4:02 PM Reply   
Diesel power, that is what we need to see in a wakeboard boat, a diesel engine will produce more torque than a gas engine. Diesels are easier to add horsepower and torque to as well, look at the pickups today, you can add 100hp and 175ft/lbs of torque in 5 minutes. Just my 2 cents.
Old    Mark Riley (madchild1)      Join Date: Mar 2005       06-24-2006, 4:51 PM Reply   
TJK, i think i speak for everyone here when i say:




GO AWAY AND NEVER COME BACK.

(Message edited by madchild1 on June 24, 2006)
Old    Tommy (lakeguy77)      Join Date: May 2002       06-24-2006, 4:53 PM Reply   
Bocephus,
That's true, it can be done with enough research and tuning and picking the right parts for your purpose. But you still have greater fuel consumption under boost due to more air, combined with the need for premium fuel to prevent detonation. I'm not sure what current wake boats use for fuel, but I'm glad my 4.3 mercruiser uses regular unleaded, and runs it happily all day long. :-)

As for parasitic losses, I never claimed any under a turbo setup. My comments regarding that topic were restricted to supercharged engines only.
Old    bocephus            06-24-2006, 5:01 PM Reply   
Mad Child,
What did TJK do?
Old    Mark Riley (madchild1)      Join Date: Mar 2005       06-25-2006, 12:48 PM Reply   
tjk always comes in and touts about how everything non-mastercraft sucks. he never brings anything good to a debate.
Old    Tommy (lakeguy77)      Join Date: May 2002       06-25-2006, 5:08 PM Reply   
I only saw TJK laying down the facts about mastercraft engines, I saw no "dissing" of any other makes in his post.
Old    Brett (bennettag10)      Join Date: Aug 2005       06-25-2006, 10:38 PM Reply   
i heard from the local dealer that the changes for 2007 aren't much... i don't know anything about the engines, but he did tell me that all models towers are changing and are kind of like the x stars current tower, all are keeping the same graphics except the x stars is supposed to change a little, also he said something about white gauges i think... i'm not positive these are all right, so don't yell at me if i'm wrong, haha
Old    Mark Riley (madchild1)      Join Date: Mar 2005       06-26-2006, 6:57 AM Reply   
yeah, but he'll chime in later about how mastercraft's new engine has like 800 hp and like 1500 lbs of tq and will go 15000 hours before an oil change.
Old    Big Ed (big_ed_x2)      Join Date: Jul 2004       06-26-2006, 1:23 PM Reply   
Mad child,I know what you mean since I've been on these boards for a while but I think you need to chill when he is just laying down the facts and not bashing any other brands.

When he makes a ridiculous statement....then call him out.
Old    ilovetrains            06-27-2006, 12:22 PM Reply   
BTW - the 8.1 is 496 ci, currently rated at 450 hp, however prior to 05 was 425.

I have a hammerhead. It has plenty of torgue, 397 lb ft at 1500 rpm, to be exact. It is a 350 block that is bored to 383, or 6.2l.

The new 6.0 is a different block based upon the GM 327 block (not the 350.) It should make 400 hp without difficulty as it is rated similary in automotive applications. However the torque numbers will be lower than the 383 at a given rpm.
Old    Tommy (lakeguy77)      Join Date: May 2002       06-27-2006, 1:07 PM Reply   
You sure it's bored to 383? I dunno about the newer LS-series smallblocks, but the old LT-series 383's were stroked, not bored. It was my understanding that the LS blocks had even LESS room for boring than the LT's. Might want to check the specs on those.

Not trying to start anything, but bore vs. stroke can have a pretty big impact on power and torque production. Stroking generally delivers better low- and mid-range torque characteristics at the expense of a lower redline due to the larger rotating assembly. Boring improves mid- and top-end power production.

EDIT: I'm assuming the blocks you guys are referring to are GM blocks in the above statements. :-)

(Message edited by lakeguy77 on June 27, 2006)
Old    ilovetrains            06-27-2006, 1:22 PM Reply   
I researched it before I bought, and here is what I remembered. The cylinders were bored out to accomodate a larger piston, however the stroke was changed as well.

Most enthusiests refer to the engine as a "stroker" even though it was bored as well.
Old    Tommy (lakeguy77)      Join Date: May 2002       06-27-2006, 2:19 PM Reply   
I just did some checking, turns out the 6.0L LS2 block is a BORED 5.7L LS1 block, and the 6.2L block is infact a STROKED 6.0L. So I was half-right. :-)

I've often wondered why the marine engine guys haven't turned to Chrysler's HEMI engines. I'm a GM guy myself, but I have to admit, the HEMI engines are vastly superior low-end torque monsters, which would make for a much better choice in a watersports boat. It's true, a cam change can go a long way in any engine, but right off the assembly line the D-C V8's are a better engine in this application.
Old    elliott dye (habcaw_creek)      Join Date: Mar 2005       06-27-2006, 3:44 PM Reply   
a deisel would be cool, and , im not sure, but get a more economic fuel consumption. The Cummins torque monster is available in marine applications. It would be cool to try to transplant that engine into an older boat.
Old    Tommy (lakeguy77)      Join Date: May 2002       06-27-2006, 5:03 PM Reply   
A diesel would do well in wakeboarding situations, but that boat would be extremely limited and couldn't reach speeds suitable for other watersports without aggressive gearing/propping.

The other thing to consider with diesels is the pollution factor. Diesel itself is far more corrosive and capable of far more environmental damage than gasoline, not to mention a much messier burn. Yes, I understand that some newer diesels are extremely clean-burning, but those are in passenger cars with extremely strict regulations on them. It's just now that the marine industry is getting into putting cats in boats.
Old    TK (swab791)      Join Date: Mar 2005       06-27-2006, 6:37 PM Reply   
This jsut in from MC in 2007 MC is using a 1000 HP aircraft engine that runs on JETFUEL and produces 1500 ft/lbs of torque.

Feel better now that I got that out there for you to get all rilled up about. Instead of me leaving why don't you GET A LIFE !!


Oh MADCHILD has ANOTHER TANTRUM. MasterCraft does not produce these motors. Indmar purchases then marinizes them
for Marine use.

As a Matter of fact MC does use a SET (That's 2 MADCHILD)
in the SaltWater Series 280/X-80 TWIN 6.0 Litre 375 HP each
producing a whopping 750 HP. Talk about on FAST boat out of the hole. It will beat any prostar out there.

Now back to the facts. Mercrusier does BORE and STROKE there 6.2 Starts out a 350ci. That motor IS NOT a true 6.0 at all.

Now MADCHILD if you have ANY TRUE facts that you would like to ad please do so.

Tommy, MASTRY in St Pete Florida is still experimenting with Diesel in an X-Star. The UK does have a diesel powered PS 197 in use. There Fuel prices are over the edge.
Old    elliott dye (habcaw_creek)      Join Date: Mar 2005       06-27-2006, 10:45 PM Reply   
I cant sleep. Ive been dreaming of getting an old 2001 nuatique and putting a Cummins Mercruser diesel in it. This is my 2nd time posting in almost a year. Now I remember why i stopped.. this damn forum gets my imagination going!
But seriosly , does anyone think it can be done. Also Tommmy why do you say it can be limited?

Even if it is it would only be for wakeboarding.
Old    ilovetrains            06-28-2006, 8:29 AM Reply   
Tommy, I could not agree more - I am a MOPAR guy, swapping a HEMI into a old CJ-8 now (with a brand new stretched LJ frame, love coils). In marine trim the HEMI would easily push 425 hp out of only 5.7 l, and the 6.1 would make a solid 500 if not more.

BTW - disagree slightly on the diesel issue, only in that for 07 the make up of diesel fuel is changing. Also the water functions as a particulate trap for exhaust.

I know Malibu has explored diesel options, but no idea where that is going. If you put in a two speed gear box, man you could have a monster.
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       06-28-2006, 11:11 AM Reply   
I'd love to get a diesel in my wakeboat. It'd be the coolest if you could power up and lay down long black clouds of diesel exhaust.

How much fun would that be to ef with your friends. The'd come out of the water looking like a reverse skunk with a big black line running up the front of them. LOL...
Old    Matt Simpson (pink)      Join Date: May 2006       06-28-2006, 4:06 PM Reply   
ok tjk one MC or any other boat would never put a 1000hp jet engin in a boat cas that would just be stupid and would make the after market dead and all your stats mean nothing so stop listing them
Old    Psyclone (cyclonecj)      Join Date: Jul 2001       06-29-2006, 9:43 PM Reply   
These days, when I go out on saturday afternoon, there are just as many wakeboard boats out, but they are all sitting saving gas... while I go back and forth in my Toyota using 2-3 GPH. I think that there will be a backlash against big inefficient boats, most people that actually ride don't need the bling or the gas costs. I rode today for about 4 hrs (sat for 45 min or so) burned 7 gals. I had about 1800lbs of water weight and five people. Back and forth while an X80 just sat there. He'd probably burn 7 gal in one pull:-) I think that boat manufacturers are going in the wrong direction lately. A smaller V drive boat with a small but efficient V8 and Perfect Pass and not much else would be a hot seller.
Old    bocephus            06-29-2006, 9:47 PM Reply   
Can we talk about rod length ratios now?
Old    Patrick (jetskiprosx)      Join Date: Aug 2004       06-30-2006, 9:28 AM Reply   
I just read this on another boating forum. Someone earlier in this thread mentioned the LS7 so I thought I would share.

"...The Silver Edition Response LXi features the Corvette LS7 engine. A hand built masterpiece specifically built for the ZO6 Corvette now available only in a Malibu Silver Edition Response LXi. It features 525 ft. lbs. of torque and a whopping 500 horsepower! The Silver Edition Response LXi is also new featuring a redesigned hull that creates an entirely new standard in World Class Slalom wakes. The Silver Limited Edition is only available in the black & silver metallic design and will be limited to 100 boats...."
Old    Karl De Looff (boarditup)      Join Date: Jan 2004       06-30-2006, 10:35 AM Reply   
You can make the X-Star perform with a 310 hp motor. You can have enormous torque off the line and have the boat handle better than ever. The solution is twin props, twin rudders, and one motor. You have a physical limitation (discussed below) with the torque going to the prop at a certain rpm and pitch. It does not take more gas at our speeds, it simply optimizes the running gear to the hull and the drag produced by the hull in the water and the air.

It is not a pipe dream. One copy of the Pro Star exists and a V-drive hull was converted as well. The performance increase in incredible. You lose some top end (who cares?). You gain hole shot and handling since the props counter rotate. It backs up straight.

The developer is KW Show Ski Equipment and I have driven it and have been behind it. We will use it this weekend for 4 ski shows in West Michigan. I'll take some pics of the running gear and gear box and post after the weekend.

A 13-14" prop can only tansfer about 500 ft/lbs of torque max. That is inefficient at best. It is a curve with several data points. That is why you either need to have a massive prop with all the drag or use two smaller props with running gear drag. No perfect solution, everything is a compromise.

I don't think MC will put this out soon. It is expensive and I don't think the market is there. You do, however, get to put a very small engine with an expensive gear box. The gear box is about half of the engine upgrade, however. You then have the gas savings. You do have, however two props to damage.
Old    Thomas Schön (wakeboat)      Join Date: Mar 2006       06-30-2006, 12:12 PM Reply   
look at this,the new mastercraft engine-see the picture at the 225-6 -click this
http://www.volkswagen-marine.com/vwm/index.php?id=2&L=0&tx_lienginesheet_pi1[engine]=11

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