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Old    Alain (ak4life)      Join Date: Nov 2003       06-20-2006, 6:23 PM Reply   
Hello,

I'm looking for a sub $3K camera (price including body + lens + accessories).

After some research I'm primarily torn between the 30D and the D200. What would you get and why?

Also what lense would you go with? I understand that versatile lenses make lousy specialists, but ideally I'm looking for one lense that's really good with wakeboarding stuff, but also a decent all around lense..

thanks in advance!
Old    Jean-Philippe Bray (jpbray)      Join Date: Apr 2006       06-20-2006, 8:07 PM Reply   
I would say go for the D200 with the DX18-200mm lens it's an amazing lens! I own the D200 and it does 5 pictures per seconds at 10 megapixel. Saturation his supergood. I love everything about it.
Old    Alain (ak4life)      Join Date: Nov 2003       06-20-2006, 10:34 PM Reply   
Sweet, thanks, man!
Old    Alain (ak4life)      Join Date: Nov 2003       06-20-2006, 10:40 PM Reply   
Is it this one: http://www.dpreview.com/news/0511/05110103nikon18-200vr.asp
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       06-20-2006, 10:53 PM Reply   
I don't think you can go wrong with either one. but if you really get into it the differences start to become clear. Full frame sensors, great high ISO performance, tilt/shift lenses are just some of the reasons I prefer Canon equipment.
Old    Alain (ak4life)      Join Date: Nov 2003       06-20-2006, 11:15 PM Reply   
guys, do you think this is legit: http://www.dannila.com/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=61
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       06-20-2006, 11:24 PM Reply   
hmmm...sounds sketchy. here's one at a reputable shop.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=413124&is=REG& addedTroughType=search

watch out for bait & switch!
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       06-20-2006, 11:28 PM Reply   
by the way, the whole canon vs. nikon argument can go on for days. canon vs. nikon is like ford vs. chevy or pc vs. mac. they both have proponents and opponents. i'm no expert, but my best advice is to read as much as you can, register at fredmiranda.com and ask questions, rent the cameras and go take some pics. you'll get a better gauge as to which camera's right for you.
Old    Alain (ak4life)      Join Date: Nov 2003       06-20-2006, 11:49 PM Reply   
Hehe, yeah, didn't mean to start nothing, so maybe X vs Y wasn't the best thread title..

Anyway, I went ahead and ordered the camera from these guys. Of course, used a credit card with purchase protection after doing a little research against the domain/company name to see if it's a known fraud shop. Found nothing like that.

Their site claims "Dannila.com offers only globally recognized name brand unopened factory fresh products to our customers" the product includes all the standard accessories and a standard 1 year Nikon warranty. They also say "Dannila.com offers a limited thirty (30) day Money Back policy to all our customers".

So we'll see, since the D200 body itself is listed at about $1699 and the lens another $700, $1545.00 for both is too good not to try.. I'll post back with results of this adventure..
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       06-20-2006, 11:51 PM Reply   
alain, i didn't mean to suggest that it was your intention to start a flame war. it just usually turns out that way when you pit the top 2 companies against eachother.

just make sure they don't try to bait and switch you. and make sure you get usa camera and lens...none of that grey market stuff.
Old    Alain (ak4life)      Join Date: Nov 2003       06-21-2006, 12:03 AM Reply   
Joe, I definately appreciate the suggestions. I'm thinking once (if) I receive the order, I'll check the serial numbers presumably present on the body and the lens and definately call up Nikon for verification against the warranty info the product presumably includes.. Do you think there are any other things I could do confirm it's a genuine item?
Old    Jean-Philippe Bray (jpbray)      Join Date: Apr 2006       06-21-2006, 6:29 AM Reply   
The 30D isn't the best camera to compete with the D200. I would more compare the D200 to a canon 5D
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       06-21-2006, 7:31 AM Reply   
"The 30D isn't the best camera to compete with the D200. I would more compare the D200 to a canon 5D"

LOL Here we go! (after 2 cups of coffee)

Upload


As far as the Nikon vs Canon thing goes Joe is right and there are thousands of posts on the internet to prove it. I would advise to take the time to read the full Canon 30D and Nikon D200 reviews on dpreview.com. Compare the images from the different cams right there in the reviews. I should shut up now but I won't!

I guess my thought is if you have to ask you're not ready for either one, go get a used 20D, a Rebel XT or a D50/70 they will give you every bit as good an image and you can spend the extra $ on the 70-200 Canon L or Nikon equiv. The extra 2 mp of the D200 will gain you nothing imagewise over an 8mp sensor (unless you're going to blow all your shots up to 24X36) and 5fps is not the best for true sequences anyhow (if that's what you want to shoot you really need a Canon 1D2 or Nikon D2X).

You said yourself there are compromises with an extended zoom like the 18-200 and although it's a very good lens it's not in the same class as the more expensive prime and more limited range zooms available in the Canon/Nikon lines. I have looked at images from it myself and the distortion at 18mm and softness at 200 are obvious (but that's to be totally expected) and of course it's not considered a fast lens by any stretch of the imagination. Bottom line Nikon finally put VR on a decent ultrawide zoom lens - Canon's been doing it for years (and I expect Canon will intro a similar efs lens to counter the 18-200 in sept. anyhow.)

Anything cheaper then B&H is usually a long shot, watch out for extra high freight, outrageous equipment package add ons or extended warranties. I have beaten my head against the wall for years trying to get those kinds of deals with nothing but aggravation as the result but by all means let us know how you did because that is an unbelievable price and post some shots with whatever you end up getting.
Old    Alain (ak4life)      Join Date: Nov 2003       06-21-2006, 11:35 AM Reply   
Thanks, Rich. Yeah I did read the Canon 30D and Nikon D200 reviews on dpreview.com along with a few other reviews too. Both seem like great cameras and both are a major step up from my old Panasonic DMC-FZ5 and I'm looking forward to learning to make decent shots with it.

I'm not trying to do anything resembling professional photography, but wanted to get the fastest continuous drive camera for under $3K cause I found sequence shots to be a great learning tool in identifying poor riding form. And that's with the 2.5-3fps I got out of the DMC-FZ5. The extra couple of fps the D200 offers should give me almost twice as many shots per wake jump and I won't have to worry about the buffer not clearing before the rider cuts back in.

I'm really excited about the VR built into the lens too.

All in all I'm looking forward to a nice camera regardless whether it's a Canon or a Nikon or [insert your favorite brand here].
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       06-21-2006, 1:00 PM Reply   
I like the D200 a lot, to the point that I seriously considered one. If I didn't already own so much Canon lenses and peripheral equipment . . . .


Keep us posted on how you do getting the stuff thru that "Danilla" (never heard of them before)
Old    Steven Hahn (solo)      Join Date: Oct 2001       06-21-2006, 4:06 PM Reply   
Nikons Suck! Lol!
Old    David Polk (smackus)      Join Date: Apr 2004       06-22-2006, 5:07 AM Reply   
If they are not an autorized nikon dealer. Nikon won't honor the warranty on the lens or camera. I hope you didn't make a big mistake by ordering a very expensive camera from a possible gray market dealer. I hope all turns out well but for sure it is taking a chance.
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       06-22-2006, 9:52 AM Reply   
David makes a good point but I have to say I'd take a grey market unit with that lens for $1545 total anyday of the week.

You can get a cam or lens with an intl warranty worked on normally, it's just a hassle. Notice B&H offers everything both ways- it's not necessarily against the rules.
Old    matt (mcinvale)      Join Date: Apr 2006       06-22-2006, 10:21 AM Reply   
Canon, because I already own lots of glass and flashes... I'd recommend the 24-70mm f/2.8L. By far spends the most time on my 20D. After that, the 70-200mm f/4L for Wakeboarding.
Old    Alain (ak4life)      Join Date: Nov 2003       07-03-2006, 6:52 PM Reply   
Well, I should have listened to you guys. The link I posted above advertizing the Nikon D200 with Nikkor 18-200mm AF-S DX VR II Lens Kit for $1545 turned out to be fraud after all.

Day after we placed the order, dannila.com went down and emails to them would bounce back. Filed a complaint with PayPal (payment processor in this case) and our Credit Card company (we used a B of A Visa). Also filed a complaint with the Arizona Better Business Bureau (http://www.bbb.org/) and The Internet Crime Complaint Center (http://www.ic3.gov/about/). Dunno if it's accurate, but here's the info obtained from the dannila.com whois record:

-----------------------------------
Registrant:
Son Huynh (DANNILA-COM-DOM)
Dannila LTD.
17949 W Mauna Loa Ln
Surprise, AZ 85379
US
602-334-7823
support@dannila.com

Domain Name: DANNILA.COM
Status: PROTECTED

Administrative Contact:
Son Huynh support@dannila.com
17949 W Mauna Loa Ln
Surprise, AZ 85379
US
602-334-7823

Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
Son Huynh support@dannila.com
17949 W Mauna Loa Ln
Surprise, AZ 85379
US
602-334-7823
-----------------------------------

We're getting our refund from B of A (props!). Hope "Son Huynh' (if that's your real name!) enjoys the $1545 and running from the law, meanwhile, we'll place another order, from a legit seller, this time!
Old    Scott (scott_a)      Join Date: Dec 2002       07-03-2006, 9:18 PM Reply   
go to B&H and pay a bit more for the piece of mind in knowing that youre not gonna get F'd with.

photography is expensive. if something is significantly cheaper than you think it should be then it probably isnt what you think its supposed to be.
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       07-03-2006, 10:06 PM Reply   
You would have been doing good to get the D200 for $1545 let alone it and that lens!
Old    Alain (ak4life)      Join Date: Nov 2003       07-06-2006, 1:22 PM Reply   
Unfortunately B & H is out of stock on the D200 and the Nikkor 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED-IF AF-S DX VR II Lens package.

Expresscameras.com has it in stock and unlike that other place I tried, they answer their phone and sound like a legit business.

However, the sales guy at Expresscameras.com is recommending that I switch from the Nikkor 18-200mm lens to the Sigma 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 DC Aspherical (IF) SLD Autofocus Lens (http://www.expresscameras.com/prodetails.asp?prodid=330683&display=2), telling me it's a much better lens.

I searched around for it and based on reviews I've found, it's not all that. However, he's saying the one he's selling me is brand new and the reviews are talking about an older version. My instinct tells me it's sales BS, but I don't have the knowledge to tell for sure. Could you guys help me out, please?
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       07-06-2006, 1:30 PM Reply   
newegg.com has the d200.
Old    E.J. (deuce)      Join Date: Mar 2002       07-06-2006, 1:41 PM Reply   
Did you check reseller ratings on expresscameras?

I found these guys to be high priced when looking for my 30D, but they have the D200 in with your lens for $2,400(don't know how that stands as far as pricing goes).
http://www.ritzcamera.com/product/541535811.htm?bct=t13031003%3Bcidigital-cameras-and-accessories%3Bcidigital-cameras%3Bcislr-digital-cameras
beachcamera has it in with the 18-70 for 2K.
Old    Alain (ak4life)      Join Date: Nov 2003       07-06-2006, 2:17 PM Reply   
Thanks, guys.. So no opinion on that Sigma lens?
Old    Alain (ak4life)      Join Date: Nov 2003       07-06-2006, 2:23 PM Reply   
Joe, thanks, I see newegg.com has the camera, but don't seem to have the Nikkor 18-200mm VR lens. Would VR be really helpful for shooting from the boat?
Old    E.J. (deuce)      Join Date: Mar 2002       07-06-2006, 2:24 PM Reply   
Sorry Alain, I am ignorant to any of this stuff. Just moved from a P&S to a 30D on Monday..... I have A LOT to learn....but the research prior to purchase has been fun.
Old    Alain (ak4life)      Join Date: Nov 2003       07-06-2006, 2:25 PM Reply   
E.J., thanks for the link, but Ritz says "Ships when received from manufacturer - Order Now!", so I'm guess they're out of stock also..
Old    Alain (ak4life)      Join Date: Nov 2003       07-06-2006, 2:26 PM Reply   
Yeah, man, P&S is the model I'm coming off of also.
Old    E.J. (deuce)      Join Date: Mar 2002       07-06-2006, 2:29 PM Reply   
Alain,

Call these guys http://www.pictureline.com/product.php?id=12804 and ask for a guy named Leslie. They are who I bought my camera from locally and they worked with me(price match) to get the price VERY, VERY close to what I could purchase online for. Their website says they have the camera package with lens you want instock. Tell Leslie that I sent you(I still need to get a 70-200 at some point).

E.J.
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       07-06-2006, 2:31 PM Reply   
alain, from what i've read and from talking to a bunch of "pro" photographers, vr doesn't really help much when shooting wakeboarding. it does, however, help in low-light situations. so if your riders ride at night, get the vr!
Old    E.J. (deuce)      Join Date: Mar 2002       07-06-2006, 2:34 PM Reply   
Note, they will only match reputable retailers, ie: BHphoto ect. But looks like they are priced the same as BH....so maybe they are right in the ballpark price wise.

E.J.
Old    Alain (ak4life)      Join Date: Nov 2003       07-06-2006, 2:45 PM Reply   
Joe, OK, so VR is not critical for me then..

E.J., I actually prefer dealing with local shops for larger purchases, where is their store located?
Old    Alain (ak4life)      Join Date: Nov 2003       07-06-2006, 2:46 PM Reply   
OH, I see, they're local to you, cause you're in Utah! Never mind on the location question..
Old    Phantom (phantom5815)      Join Date: Jul 2002       07-06-2006, 4:29 PM Reply   
I went with BH photo with the D200 18-70mm kit and bought a 80-200mm 2.8 on the side.
To get a great deal with the 18-200mm in the Kit is going to take a while.

I just went ahead and put myself on the waiting list with Ritz for the 18-200mm lens while I send my D100 back to nikon for the firmware upgrade so that they will be compatible.
I do have a Canon 500D macro attachment that I used on the 80-200mm lens, but that weighs a lot.
Now I have the 105mm vr for macro, it's heavy but it's a fun lens.
Old                07-07-2006, 3:14 PM Reply   
Hey Alain Kelder,
Here is what comes in public records for the seller here in Arizona. If you want I will drive over this weekend and get a refund for you . Looks like the guy has a nice house, I wonder if he will answer the door.

HUYNH SON D
17949 W MAUNA LOA LN
SURPRISE, AZ 85388-7640
Maricopa County

Stories:
2 Class:
R4
Rooms:
9 Construction:
frame wood
Bath Fixtures:
15 Quality:
good
Heating:
forced air RoofType:
a concrete tile
A/C:
refrigeration Patios:
1 covered patio or porch
SqFt:
4080 Parking:
3 car garage
Pool:
No YearBuilt:
2004
Improvement%:
0.00 - AddedValueArea:
-
Land Prem$:
0.00 - None Added SqFt:
0 -
Elem Schl Dist:
DYSART UNIFIED DISTRICT High Schl Dist:
DYSART USD #89
Legal Class:
Owner Occupied

SubDivision: SIERRA MONTANA PARCEL 6
SIERRA MONTANA PARCEL 6 MCR 633-49
Tax Valuation Trending: TaxAreaCode = 891503
Year 2004F 2005F 2006P 2007P
Limited Full Cash Value 20075 22083 24291 266805
Land Full Cash Value 27500 27500 30500 66200
Improve Full Cash Value 0 0 0 264800
Total Full Cash Value 0 0 30500 331000
Percent of Change - 0% 0% 985.25%
Current Taxes $359.58 $435.36 NA NA

Transaction History
To Deed RecDte Price Down LoanAmt Financing Mortgage Co. Fee#
SON D HUYNH SD 05/09/2005 $312764 $15664 $234550 FM FIRST MAGNUS FINANCIAL CORP 607912
BEAZER HOMES SALES ARIZONA INC WD 05/09/2005 $0 $0 $0 NO NEW MORTGAGE 607910
Old    Alain (ak4life)      Join Date: Nov 2003       07-11-2006, 8:04 PM Reply   
Bocephus,

Wow, he really left himself open there, didn't he? Not very smart.. No worries about the refund, bro, while I appreciate the offer, wouldn't want you to get mixed up. I got my money back from Visa, they can track him down if they want. I'm sure he'll get his sooner or later!

take care, -Alain.
Old    E.J. (deuce)      Join Date: Mar 2002       07-12-2006, 9:28 AM Reply   
So Alain, did you end up getting the D200 and 18-200?
Old                11-14-2006, 11:56 AM Reply   
To Alain,

This is Son Huynh. I just want to make this clear to everyone that Dannila LTD or Dannila.com has nothing to do with me. Someone has stolen my identity and has started this business under my name and address. For starters I am not stupid enough to use my home address so that people like
Bocephus can come to my house and endanger my family. To Bocephus I do not appreciate you coming to my house and posting all my personal information for people to view. I am a victim just as you are Alain. I'm trying to get to the bottom of this and find out who's using my name.
Old    Samuel Sosa (unclesam)      Join Date: Nov 2005       11-14-2006, 12:22 PM Reply   
everyone is out of the 18-200, that is a very high demand lens. You could get a D200 body and 70-200 VR and be under your 3k price. Or since it is for wakeboarding a used D2H and lense. That would be awesome.
Old    Phantom (phantom5815)      Join Date: Jul 2002       11-14-2006, 7:12 PM Reply   
I waited 4 mos for my Nikon 18-200mm vr.
Since you're in the market for a camera as well, you can get the D200 with the 18-200mm lens as a package, would be alot easier thing to do if you have the money.
Old    Chris Anthony (cmawsr)      Join Date: Nov 2002       11-14-2006, 7:49 PM Reply   
WOW!!!!
Old    chris ramey (cramey)      Join Date: Jun 2001       11-15-2006, 1:34 PM Reply   
get the following

30d (1200)
battery grip (150)
70-200 f/2.8 L non is (1000)
17-40 f/4 L (600)
420EX Flash (300)

a little over 3k, but well worth it. maybe you could get a deal with dell or something... i also think canon is having rebates

You can buy most of that equipment from professional shooting message boards as well...

i wouldn't go for a 18-200 f/3.5+ lens. you will crap your pants once you try either the 70-200 canon or nikon f/2.8

(Message edited by cramey on November 15, 2006)
Old    Clubmyke (clubmyke)      Join Date: Aug 2004       11-15-2006, 3:15 PM Reply   
canon does have rebates.. your would qualify for 2 double rebates....i think b&h has pretty good prices and a very good reputation.. i got my 30d & 17-40 for under $1500 ($1150 & $629 before the rebates)
Old    Swami (swami)      Join Date: Apr 2006       11-16-2006, 8:13 PM Reply   
if it sounds too good to be true.. it usually is.

Know the reputable resellers
B&H
Beach Camera.com
BuyDig
etc.
If it's over 15% below one of these, usually it's a scam.

They are out there!
Old    Bakes (bakes5)      Join Date: Aug 2006       11-18-2006, 5:26 PM Reply   
I used to be fairly trusting but after getting screwed I have a hard time buying complex, expensive things over the internet these days. The difference between a local and a mail order purchase for the D200 is about $150-$200. YMMV, but I personally would pay $1700 to best buy or Ritz camera rather than $1500 to some shady dealer in Brooklyn.

Also, I don't really consider the 30D and the D200 in the same class. Should be more of a 30D vs D80 or 5D vs D200 thing....that being said you would probably be happy with any of those.

Later

Troy

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