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Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       06-13-2006, 7:07 AM Reply   
There are a couple of ways with the HVX to get slow motion without rendering, one shooting with the variable framerate in either 24p or 30p which does the pulldown in the camera. The other is to shoot in 60p and use the FCP frame rate convertor to remove the extra frames and then drop the converted clip into a 29.97 (which I did here) or 23.98 timeline. Still working with that original footage I shot but I've learned a few new things about cam setup which should hopefully give me more of the look I'm after so hopefully I'll get another chance to shoot Chris soon.

Anyway check it out. I'll have to do a test rendering the 60 fps file to 50% speed in FCP and see how that compares. Not sure it will look any different compressed down this much.

http://homepage.mac.com/rd4tile/FileSharing7.html
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       06-13-2006, 8:52 AM Reply   
does fcp have pixel motion (i think that's what it's called in premiere/after effects) in which is "creates" pixels to make slo mo footage looks smoother?
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       06-13-2006, 11:05 AM Reply   
In FCP I believe it's called frame blending. The AE/Premiere plugin may be more sophisticated then Apple's though, it would be interesting to do a side by side on identical footage.

Maybe it's just because it's HD but the slo-mo I'm seeing at full resolution out of the HVX looks much better then anything I've seen done with miniDV whether via DVX/FCP or any NLE for that matter.

The quality of the interpolator as well as the quality of the video obviously plays a big part in the rendered final quality when done in software. In the case of film (or variable rate progressive video) overcranking should provide much better quality though because the true image information is already there and you're just playing it back with a slower framerate.

Old    Mike McLin (mike_mclin)      Join Date: Oct 2004       06-16-2006, 7:07 AM Reply   
If you do the over/undercranking in the camera, then the HVX200 does not record audio. If you want audio, then you have to shoot in a 720/60P mode. Then you can bring it into any Non-Linear editing program (like Final Cut or Premiere). Once in the program you interpret the footage as 30 frames per second, or 24 , or whatever. The program does NOT remove any frames. It simply plays them back at a different rate. For example if you shot it at 60fps but you have your editing program play it back at 30fps, it will take 2x as long to play it back, therefore giving you 2x Slow-mo effect.

As far as frame-blending and pixel shift techologies...these are very different. When referring to time stretching (or slowing down your content), frame blending simply takes 2 frames and then blends them together to make an "inbetween" frame. Frame-blending is offered in most high end video software packages. Pixel shifting is where the program analyzes each individual pixel. It determines where one pixel is in 1 frame, and where it is in the next frame. Based on that result it tries to put that pixel where it should be for the "inbetween" frame. Adobe did just recently add this technology to some of their apps, but it has been around for a while as a plugin (Twixtor is one of those plugins). Pixel shifting is much more sophisticated than frame blending. Sometimes you get phenominal results, and sometimes the results are terrible. I have found the pixel shifting is almost useless in wakeboard shooting. There are some small applications for it, but for the most part it is a headache. Hope this clears some questions up.

(Message edited by Mike McLin on June 16, 2006)
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       06-16-2006, 7:26 AM Reply   
Sorry "pulldown" wasn't really the correct terminology. As you point out you do need to run the frame rate convertor on 60p footage to "interpret" it for correct playback on a 24 or 30 fps timeline.

I tried the Twixtor plugin for FCP on DVX wakeboard footage and couldn't see any real improvement over the standard slomo rendering engine built into FCP so my experience there is in line with yours.

What's interesting is I experimented with the clip above rendering it with FCP at 50% slomo with both frame blending on and off and like the results much better with frame blending off. It looked fairly close to the overcranked playback but that was only on my small screen. Need to do some comparison tests and then play back on my 42" HDTV to really see the difference.

Regardless the footage coming out of this cam is really a step up compared to miniDV.
Old    Mike McLin (mike_mclin)      Join Date: Oct 2004       06-16-2006, 7:51 AM Reply   
Frame blending will look "blurrier", because it is blending the frames together. Turn it off, and the picture will be much crisper, BUT, the motion will be rougher. Because it will just duplicate frames to create the slow mo. So for picture quality, no frame-blending. But, for motion quality you want frame-blending. You can't have you cake and eat it too :-) Thats one of the reasons why the HVX is such an exciting camera. Now you can have slow-motion effects without having to frame-blend or do any of that nonsense in your software program (unless you want REALLy slo-motion).
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       06-16-2006, 8:16 AM Reply   
It's amazing how much better video FX hold up with HD (especially with this codec).

Mike what scene settings are your favorite for WB footage?
Old    Mike McLin (mike_mclin)      Join Date: Oct 2004       06-28-2006, 10:10 AM Reply   
HVX-200 in-camera scene settings?
Video editing software scene settings?

which scene are we talking about?

For now, I am assuming you are talking about the scene settings in the camera. I don't mess around with them that much. I don't fully understand all of the adjustments (gamma, chroma, etc). I mainly shoot everything on auto. The only thing I really fuss with is the format that I am recording and the frame rate I am recording. Everything else I do in post with software. I am much more of a post-production computer guy, than I am a cameraman. I am learning though. I'm waiting on Barry Green's book to come out on the HVX-200. At that point, I'll probably get a little more in-depth with the camera.
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       06-28-2006, 4:13 PM Reply   
I'm talking about in cam scene settings.

BTW Barry just started taking orders on his book yesterday:

http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/hvxbook/

I'm going to wait though as Panasonic is going to give everyone who bought an HVX from a US dealer a coupon for a free copy of the book in about a month!

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