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Old    Brett Wells (bwellsusmc)      Join Date: May 2006       05-04-2006, 10:02 PM Reply   
I'm in the process of deciding on a new Moomba LSV. The Moomba I am interested in comes with a ballist in the front, but the dealership forgot to add the ballist to the back. Its a V-Drive boat. Its an 06 and they want $40,000 for it. Is it worth it without the ballist in the back? Thanks for any insight you can provide.
Old    Jory (carcrz)      Join Date: Mar 2006       05-04-2006, 10:04 PM Reply   
Still learning, but how hard would it be to add it in yourself? Then again, there must be a reason they didn't already think of that.
Old    Brett Wells (bwellsusmc)      Join Date: May 2006       05-04-2006, 10:12 PM Reply   
Thanks Jory! But, from what the dealer told me, when ordering the boat they literally forgot to click the option for the ballast tanks in the back of the boat. Personally, I didn't even know that was an option. I'm like you, new at this and have no idea the cost or method for placing the ballast tanks in the back.
Old    entrust clothing (entrustclothing)      Join Date: Jul 2005       05-04-2006, 10:13 PM Reply   
tell the dealer to add it for you and not charge you, i don't think they would walk away from the deal over that. what all comes on the boat for $40K?
Old    Garret Schmidt (garret_s)      Join Date: Apr 2006       05-04-2006, 10:25 PM Reply   
If you really want it, tell them to install, and you will buy. Simple as that/
Old    Brett Wells (bwellsusmc)      Join Date: May 2006       05-04-2006, 11:12 PM Reply   
The boat is pretty loaded and includes the (Indmar Assault 325 hp MPI, Hydraulic Wakeplate, PerfectPass Wakeboard Pro, and sound system. The only thing they forgot to inlcude was the rear ballast tanks. They stated the engine being in the rear makes up for the rear ballast not being there. Further, they stated once I filled the front ballast it would level the boat. Is that true?
Old    Garret Schmidt (garret_s)      Join Date: Apr 2006       05-04-2006, 11:23 PM Reply   
Thats bull. The LSV needs those back tanks, especially if you already have the front. Don't let them get rid of you without that.
Old    M-Dizzle (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-05-2006, 12:10 AM Reply   
Yah, just sales talk. I agree with pretty much the general statement of...."I am on the fence about buying this boat, add the back ballast and we got a deal". Its a small cost to the dealer to make a sale.
Old    Rob (lowdrag)      Join Date: Jan 2006       05-05-2006, 5:30 AM Reply   
Take all the options and go to the configurator on Moomba's site and see what the price there is to give you a ballpark idea. Definitely agree that you want the rear ballast and they're just doing a little fast talking to get you into that boat.

Second option. If you can't see yourself walking away from the boat if they won't budge on the ballast, at least get them to throw some sacs and the plug in pumps so you can use them in the back, but I'm pretty sure that you won't be happy with that option after having to hand fill and empty the bags a couple of times.
Old    George Aslinger (mobv)      Join Date: Jun 2002       05-05-2006, 5:54 AM Reply   
I believe the Moomba line uses sacs for ballast, not hard tanks, I know thats true in the Supra line. Installation of the rear ballast may cost the dealer a few hundred to make it fully automatic like the factory. If they want to sell the boat they would take care of that.
Old     (offdapeggs)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-05-2006, 7:46 AM Reply   
This is a sign of a bad dealer, they are already lying to you. They just don't want to spend the time and money installing the ballast system. If he will lie to you now, what will he so when you have a service issue? Oh, yeah you perfect pass should keep you within 8mph.....
Old    Elane (ebone66)      Join Date: Dec 2005       05-05-2006, 7:58 AM Reply   
I've got a new Outback V with just the middle sac. Big mistake. When filled it actually makes the wake smaller. I won't even use it until I get 6-800#'s for the back. I agree w/above posters. You need the back ballast.
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       05-05-2006, 8:08 AM Reply   
I have to agree with offdapeggs. The dealer is you already. "the engine makes up for the ballast," I would have walked off the lot right then. I would go to a different dealer, or company. I doubt you want to deal with someone like that.
Old    entrust clothing (entrustclothing)      Join Date: Jul 2005       05-05-2006, 8:23 AM Reply   
$40k seems like a good price for everything you got, tell them you want the rear bags installed or you walk.
Old    Marty McFly (mcfly)      Join Date: Jan 2002       05-05-2006, 8:31 AM Reply   
What Brett just told you was the truth. As many of you know, I am Marty McFly with Waterski Boats Dallas. I am the one that Brett spoke with.

The boat that Brett is considering is very hard loaded, but when we ordered the boat, we literally didn't click on the Gravity III Ballast Option. (Remember, a Mobius LSV comes standard with the front ballast, but the rear ballast is optional.)

The boat has everything else. 325 MPI Engine, Perfect Pass, Hydraulic Wakeplate, Tower, Board Racks, Pop up Cleats, Bimini, Cover, Tandem Trailer, CD Stereo, Depth Finder, Docking Lights and Rear Remote.

What I said about the front ballast leveling off the boat is due to the fact that a v-drive will naturally have its butt end sitting deeper in the water because of the engine weight. The front ballast will help sink the nose of the boat in the water, and the wake plate will help shape the wake that is created. However, the engine cannot make up for the lack of ballast. The only way to make a wake bigger is to add ballast, while the wake plate simply shapes the wake that is there.

So, that is what happened. It was an honest mistake on our end, and mistakes happen.

Most of you know how our dealership works. We are very fortunate to have an awesome market here in Dallas, so we donít have to lie or try to push customers in a particular boat. If Brett does not want to purchase this boat, then that is his decision. I am not going to try to persuade him in either direction. I told him that I could order the exact boat that he wanted if he didnít want this one (since we have sold 5 LSVs in the past 2 weeks and this particular boat is our last one).

I hope that clears things up.

Marty McFly
Waterski Boats Dallas
Old     (insuranceman)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-05-2006, 8:36 AM Reply   
Marty, What about simply adding the two bags to make the deal? I know you have a great service dept.

Doug
Old    entrust clothing (entrustclothing)      Join Date: Jul 2005       05-05-2006, 8:42 AM Reply   
marty no offense but i kinda get the impression from your post that you dont care, i mean you just said i don't care if he buys the boat or not, we sold 5 in 2 weeks.

he came to you to order a boat, and you made a mistake which you admitted to, but you don't seem to care to fix it
Old    Matthew Bird (ldr)      Join Date: Nov 2002       05-05-2006, 8:49 AM Reply   
Marty,
If you know he wants the back ballast tanks why haven't you offered to just install them now. It seems like your more concerned about comming on a chat room to clear your name (a name which Brett hasn't mentioned yet) than just taking care of the customer.
Just make it right. Even if it means splitting the cost on rear ballast. And why would you make up some lame story for not needing the rear ballast tanks. To me it sounds like your trying to pull a fast one to get the boat off the lot. JMHO
Old    Jon (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       05-05-2006, 8:55 AM Reply   
This is going to get fun.
Event: Everyone in Wakeworld vs Marty McFly
Goal: Get Brett Wells the best deal possible

Marty have you ever negotiated with hundreds of people to sell a single boat??
Old    Marty McFly (mcfly)      Join Date: Jan 2002       05-05-2006, 8:58 AM Reply   
Matthew, I did not make up a lame story for the boat not needing rear ballast. Every LSV we have sold this year has rear ballast, while this particular boat had it accidentally left off. If I was trying to make up a lame story to get the customer to purchase the boat, then I would not have told him it was a mistake that we made in not ordering the boat with rear ballast. I would have told him we ordered it on purpose that way because the boat did not need it.

I have already talked to Brett on the phone this morning, and I didn't know that I was obligated to post our conversation on the internet.

McFly
Old    Matthew Bird (ldr)      Join Date: Nov 2002       05-05-2006, 9:06 AM Reply   
Marty,
I didn't say you made up a lame story for why it didn't come with ballast. I said you came up with a lame story for why he didn't need ballast.
Again i hope you did talk to Brett and i hope you decided to just put the ballast on for him. How you decide to work this deal will speak volumes about you and your dealership. It's up to you.
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       05-05-2006, 9:12 AM Reply   
IF you accidentally left it off, then put some sacs in there and make it right.

You are not obligated to post your conversation on the internet, you chose to.
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       05-05-2006, 9:15 AM Reply   
I'm making a batch of popcorn for this one.

There seems to be conflicting reports - Marty, did you or did you not tell him the boat doesn't need rear ballast due to being a V drive?

IMO the lack of rear ballast in an otherwise hard-loaded boat would be an issue with any other experienced boat buyer anyway. Suck it up and install it, and the boat will be easier to sell anyway, even if it isn't Brett that buys it.
Old    Jon Allen (jon_a)      Join Date: Feb 2003       05-05-2006, 9:51 AM Reply   
From another dealer's point of view, it is very easy to accidently leave off an option while ordering. By Marty telling the customer that the engine in the back will make up for the ballast, he is simply meaning that the engine in the back already weighs the boat down a little more and the front ballast levels it off. By no means is he saying that the engine takes place of the ballast. Marty works for a very reputable dealer and I believe would never lie to a customer to get him to buy. I think we should leave this conversation and let Marty and Brett work things out. I'm sure Marty will bend over backwards to make the customer happy.
Old     (insuranceman)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-05-2006, 9:53 AM Reply   
Jon, Both your dealership and Marty's are very good.

By the way thanks for talking with me about the floor panel on my ssv.

Doug
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       05-05-2006, 10:00 AM Reply   
I don't think threads like this should be ignored. Brett came here asking for unbiased advice and opinions, which he will not get from any dealer. That is the value of forums like this.

Another important point that isn't clear to me is did Brett order this boat, or was it ordered for the floor and he likes it?
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       05-05-2006, 10:17 AM Reply   
Agreed Trace. I am sure all the dealers would like forums like this to go away all together. Don't go on a forum and ask questions! Your killing my margins!

Why would you even make the statement about the engine weighing the back down if that was not what he meant? That doesn't make since to me. You are trying to twist a statement to make it, make since.
Old    www.midwestwakeboarder.com (gmarkham1)      Join Date: Sep 2003       05-05-2006, 11:46 AM Reply   
I dont think he ordered the boat, I am sure, from previous experience, that if he had, not only would the dealer make the ballast right, but so would skiers choice!

I think marty is pretty stand up for coming on here and saying who/where the boat was. And he is also agreeing that the boat does in fact need the rear ballast for the best wake possible.

Old    Brett Wells (bwellsusmc)      Join Date: May 2006       05-05-2006, 12:43 PM Reply   
Everyone, I greatly appreciate the responses and advice. I just joined this forum last night in the hopes of being educated on a wakeboard boat. I have to say, I definitely got that. Marty and I have everything worked out, Water Ski Boats Dallas ordered the ballast and included them in the price of the boat, along with taking care of me on the interest rate. Marty went out of his way this morning to make things right. This is my first experience buying a boat and Marty and his team made it an easy & painless process. Thanks again for the advice. I look forward to learning more as my family joins the wakeboarding community.
Old     (insuranceman)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-05-2006, 12:55 PM Reply   
Brett, Congrats. Glad everything worked out.
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       05-05-2006, 1:32 PM Reply   
I am glad you found this forum Brett. Otherwise you would have been sold a Wakeboat with no rear ballast, and you would have been under the impression the engine was enough weight, and that the front sac was just to level the boat. I hope other wakeboard newbies that buy boats from mcfly are as smart as you.
Old    Richard (nauty)      Join Date: Feb 2004       05-05-2006, 1:44 PM Reply   
I'm glad everything got worked out, but I think a few of you might have misunderstood Bret's initial post. Or, perhaps I misunderstood his post?

Nowhere in his post did he state that this boat was ordered specifically for him. I am under the impression that the boat was ordered for stock. It came in without the rear sacs on by mistake.

Bret came in looking for a boat. Marty tells him that he has one left in stock, but it does not have the rear sacs. However, because it does not have these sacs Marty will offer a smoking deal on it at $40K. Marty tells him if he does not like this one, he can order a new one to his specifications at the regular price.

How is Marty wrong here? I could understand if this boat was specifically ordered for Bret and it came in wrong. If that were the case then yes, Marty should take care of him. However, that does not seem to be the case here.

I see this as no different than going to a car dealership and trying to decide if you want to buy a car that the dealer has in stock with the options the dealer selected, or, whether to order a new car with the options you want. Just because the cars in-stock at the dealerships are manual transmissions and you wanted an automatic doesn't mean that the dealership should install an automatic transmission for you at no charge? If you don't like what the dealer has order one with the options that you like!

Regarding whether or not you need ballast or not, that is a very personal choice. Obviously, most of us on this board do prefer LOTS of ballast. However, not everyone who walks into a dealership wants or needs a fully weighted boat. There are many safety conscious parents who won't put ballast in their boats because they do not want their kids to get hurt. My point is, Marty can and will sell this boat without the rear sacs, so why should he take it in the shorts when he can order Bret a new boat the way he wants it?

I think some of you misunderstood Marty's point about not trying to force Bret into buying this boat, as though Marty was cocky and could care less if Bret bought a boat. It seems pretty clear to me that Marty was making the point that if he didn't want this boat without the rear ballast he could order a NEW one WITH the rear ballast. Again, the decision here was Bret's. It wasn't Marty's obligation to discount a boat further just because it wasn't what ONE particular customer was wanting. If Marty was telling Bret that no, he would not order him a new boat and that Bret had to take this one or nothing, then yes, Marty would have been wrong. That was not the case here. I think as it is the boat was discounted substancially when there really wasn't a need for it. The boat could have sold the way it was.

Again, if I am the one who mis-understood Bret's initial posts, I apologize for getting on my soap box.

(Message edited by nauty on May 05, 2006)
Old     (insuranceman)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-05-2006, 1:49 PM Reply   
Damm Richard,

Well put. I think as Bret said he is new to the Sport and with that being said, he may not know everything that he needs in a boat. Lord I know I didn't when I bought my first boat.

Richard, boat in your profile looks great.

Doug
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       05-05-2006, 1:51 PM Reply   
Richard - I completely agree with your points. I posted the question asking if it was ordered specifically for Brett after I reread the thread and started thinking I'd misunderstood.

Brett - Congrats on your purchase of a sweet rig, and have a great summer!

Group Hug!!! :-)
Old    M-Dizzle (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-05-2006, 1:57 PM Reply   
Well, the whole 5 boats in two weeks line is the old "if you dont like it, someone else will buy it" sales pitch. I am sure it is used to death everywhere in the sales community, but I personally hate the feeling of a sales person trying to push me towards making a purchase. The fact that he came on here stating that is what bothers me (combined with the slippery sloped ballast explanation). I am glad that things worked out for both of them, especially Brett. I would like to at one point in my life hear a salesman say "its a lot of money, take your time and think it over". Rather than, "hey I sell these all day long, take it or leave it, someone else will buy it in less than two weeks." Its not always just what is said, but what is implied.
Old     (insuranceman)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-05-2006, 2:04 PM Reply   
Matt, I hate to say but I called the dealership on last Saturday for ask a question about my boat. Marty was out but I spoke with his asst and he told me then they had "sold" all but one LSV when I asked how their business was going.

Again glad this all worked out.
Old    Matthew Bird (ldr)      Join Date: Nov 2002       05-05-2006, 4:04 PM Reply   
Well, since i was giving Marty a hard time, i feel compelled to come back on and applaud him for making things right. Good job Marty, And congrats on the new boat Brett. Be sure to post pictures so we can all Oooh and Aaah.
Old    schooledrider (rmcronin)      Join Date: Aug 2002       05-05-2006, 5:49 PM Reply   
I still want to see or hear what the wake is like behind this boat compared to say the Launch 21v and the 22SSV

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