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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive > Archive through May 19, 2006

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Old    catfishh            05-02-2006, 2:41 PM Reply   
Well this seems to never end. The final diagnosis on my 2001 Mobius is a cracked cylinder wall and the need for a whole new motor. Here is my question:

I only owe $14000 on the boat, NADA has the value at a low of 23,780 and a high of 27000.

Should I sell as is and try and just get what I owe, and also would anyone even be willing to buy a boat that needs a new motor-new motor w/ labor is $4400.00.

any advice would help as I do not have an extra $4400.00 laying around.
Old    entrust clothing (entrustclothing)      Join Date: Jul 2005       05-02-2006, 2:50 PM Reply   
damn Jeff, that sucks :-( and right when the weather is gettign nice :-(

honestly i would sell the boat for like $15k and say it need a new motor and that with a a new motor it will be under $20k total, way less then the nada value. or if you want a new boat i'm sure you could work out a deal with a dealer, it won't cost them $4400 to put a new motor in. so maybe trade it in and tell them you want like $17-18k then you can pay off your boat and a have a few thousand for a downpayment of whatever
Old    jaubrey (jaubrey)      Join Date: Feb 2003       05-02-2006, 2:55 PM Reply   
I would go with a trade in like entrust said. a dealership can get some new business and work with you in negotiations and theri means to get a motor in is easier and cheaper. I dont know if you are looking for a new boat but this is definitely a possibility. Di you buy this boat from a delaer that you can go back to them and have them help you out on it?
Old    C.I.E... AL Bischofbee (allen)      Join Date: Apr 2005       05-02-2006, 3:03 PM Reply   
Have the cylinder sleaved if they say you can't find a new shop that says you can, because, you can and it will only cost a fraction.
Old    CBrown (powdrhound)      Join Date: Nov 2002       05-02-2006, 3:05 PM Reply   
depends on if you are happy with your boat (apart from the engine obviously) if so maybe bite the bullet and replace the engine....
Old    catfishh            05-02-2006, 3:26 PM Reply   
What's up with having the cylinder sleeved? My mech said it could be repaired by a mchine shop but it would cost almost as much as a new motor. I was definetely happy with the boat especially because I paid so little for it and no it was from some kid whoase dad bought it for him.

This really sucks though man, when it rains it pours....
Old    entrust clothing (entrustclothing)      Join Date: Jul 2005       05-02-2006, 3:30 PM Reply   
it will cost almost just as much to get the motor fixed becuase they have to pull it and then empty it, then have it machined and so forth. instead of just pulling it out and putting a new one in. ive blown motors and trannys in cars and done many motor swaps in other cars and it was always easier to put a new motor in than fix the broken one
Old    Aaron Ware (99_slaunch)      Join Date: Oct 2005       05-02-2006, 3:30 PM Reply   
Put a new motor in and do it you're self.
Old    depoint50ae (depoint50ae)      Join Date: Jul 2005       05-02-2006, 3:54 PM Reply   
Put in a new motor. The 4400 is a good price for motor and labor. Aren't most crate motors in the 5K range?
Old    Adrenaline Junkie (kgoings)      Join Date: Apr 2005       05-02-2006, 3:54 PM Reply   
put the new motor in and then sell the motor or parts on ebay
Old    Craig (yosquire)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-02-2006, 4:29 PM Reply   
if it's a small block chevy, you can pick up a professionally rebuilt one for around $1300. You can get a new GM one for about $1800 last time I checked. (with some price shopping)

Engines are not that complicated to swap out. I've done boat motors before. The biggest challenge is finding something that can lift the motor up that high and get it out. The last time I did this, I bought the motor rebuilt from Cummins Diesel, (yes they do gas motors too), for $699. Chevy 350ci. They charged me a $300 core charge since I had a bad engine. So for $999 plus some misc parts, I swapped out my buddy's boat engine. That engine is going on 8 years and still pulls stronger than most new chevy engines.

Seriously, If you had a friend who had the knowledge to do it, you could do this for $1200-$1500 and about 40hrs of time. This is also figuring using a non-marine engine...which has basically no difference, just price. Marine engines most commonly have 4-bolt mains and brass softplugs.
Old    Steve™ (kingskrew)      Join Date: May 2004       05-02-2006, 4:38 PM Reply   
I 2nd Craig's thoughts completely.

-Steve
Old    Bruce Banner (breadbutta)      Join Date: Dec 2003       05-02-2006, 4:42 PM Reply   
Marine crate motor....
Old    Craig (yosquire)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-02-2006, 4:55 PM Reply   
oh, one other thing I thought of, if you do it yourself, you're at least a month out. By the time you get all the ducks in a row, get the engine pulled, and break down all of your mainifolds and other boat engine 'parasites' things, build up the new engine with all of these parts, Install it, deal with things that come up, and live your regular life -- You're well into June.

I still would argue against using a Marine Engine. The warranty won't be as good on a Marine engine. And the Marine Crate will exceed $2k, easily. I'd use a Chevy 350 with a four bolt main. Four bolt main is because of the increased torque load that boats regularly see.

A quick correction: I just priced some rebuilt engines - you're looking about $1100 plus $300 core. So $1400 plus about $200 misc.

Old    catfishh            05-02-2006, 6:12 PM Reply   
Yeah I already thought about doing the swap myself(w/ a little help) where can I find some rebuilt motors? the engine is a base 330hp PCM V8-the worst part is this motor only has 75 hours on it!! I took it in to have it inspected before I bought it and they said nothing about the impeller-they said my water circ pump was going so I figured they had to check the impeller, it would take like 2 minutes to pull the cap and see. Well apparently not and when the impeller went, I was too far from the B/R. By the time we got in, the temp was thru the roof. Next time I will just kill the motor and wait I guess...If anyone can point me in the right direction of where to find a rebuilt one, that would be great.

Entrust-you get your boat fixed yet? I couldn't get a stright answer from anyone about that area you were in. Sorry, I tried.
Old    mplv            05-02-2006, 6:34 PM Reply   
you can refinance the boat and borrow more money on it to do the repair also.
Old    Cliff (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       05-02-2006, 6:43 PM Reply   
at least you still have all of the marine specific engine parts that you can use

do it yourself...study up on engines
talk to engine guys...several of them

you can choose your own crank, cam
flat or pop-up pistons

design your own horsepower

torque curve

wow....what an opportunity for you
I've often wondered what I'll do when my engine accumulates alot of hours

engines are easy....just scary at first
Old    Danny (boomerang)      Join Date: Feb 2006       05-02-2006, 6:53 PM Reply   
Find a Jasper motor, I replaced a 350 for less than $1500.00...

You can buy a short block and do the labor yourself.

But to be honest, if my dealer could do the swap and get boat back quick with a warranty, $4-$5 k sounds cheap.
Old    Shawn (csquared)      Join Date: Jan 2002       05-02-2006, 7:46 PM Reply   
Put in a long block from Jasper. Will run about $2400 total. The short block is an OK idea but only comes with a 1 year warranty. Long block has a 3 year warranty and you'll save a ton of labor.

If you seriously want to sell the boat for $14,000, let me know.
Old    882001 (882001)      Join Date: Nov 2003       05-02-2006, 8:44 PM Reply   
pull the motor take it to your local hot rod shop and have them rebuild it. its scary at first but its way easier than i thought. i did it last year.you will know way more about your boat when your finished. and have a feeling of satisfaction. if you want something done right do it yourself!
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       05-02-2006, 8:58 PM Reply   
Do you know for sure the heads are good? If not, I agree on the long block - it's cake to swap the intake and exhaust over. Count on about 20 hrs and $2500 that way. If you can get by with a short block, you'd save around a grand and add probably 10-15 hrs.

It's pretty ghetto, but I've pulled boat motors with a come-along and a tree. Winch it up, and pull the boat out from under it. :-)

Good luck.
Old    catfishh            05-03-2006, 9:34 AM Reply   
Where can I look for a rebuilt motor at- I spoke with Jasper and their prices are much higher than everyone on here thought. I need the Long Block also because both heads are cracked.
Old    entrust clothing (entrustclothing)      Join Date: Jul 2005       05-03-2006, 9:41 AM Reply   
Jeff i got my boat fixed, i appreciate your help. it didn't really seem like it was worth persuing to get stuck in all the back and forth BS that i knew would come.

if i was in your situation i would look at trading it in
Old    rodney (azwakekid)      Join Date: Apr 2005       05-03-2006, 9:47 AM Reply   
have you called around looking for a used block? i would check with some of the older boat shops in your area and see if they have anything used sittin around, that would be you best guess, but i have no idea what the boat shops are like where you live
Old    Wes Gardner (wesgardner)      Join Date: Oct 2003       05-03-2006, 9:55 AM Reply   
Jegs and eBay are worth a look
Old    Rod McInnis (rodmcinnis)      Join Date: Sep 2002       05-03-2006, 10:36 AM Reply   
$4,400 for a new Marine motor, including labor sounds like a deal to me. Unless you enjoy getting greasy and want the experience you would be better off forking over the cash and enjoying your boat instead of spending all summer messing with it.

By the way, you are actually lucky that your boat didn't sink from this ordeal!

The water pumped out of the lake not only cools the engine it also cools the exhaust. The portion of the exhaust that runs along the bottom of the boat and then out the transom is not built to handle hot exhaust without the water. The exhaust path often includes rubber hoses and/or fiberglass tubes which will quickly self destruct under very high heat.

Running for even a few minutes without water cooling can cause the exhaust path to form some major holes. I have seen rubber hoses completely melt away, opening a 4 inch hole in the bottom of the boat. Because the exhaust outlet is below the water line having the exhaust system fail can cause your boat to sink.

Word to the wise: your earliest warning of the raw water pump failing is often a sharp increase in the exhaust noise. If you are not getting a flow of water through the exhaust, shut it down!
Old    eric fox (fox)      Join Date: Jul 2002       05-03-2006, 1:33 PM Reply   
$4,400 for a new motor installed with a warranty..no brainer dude. I just spent $7k on a new motor for my landrover with a 1 year unlimited milage warranty. Swap motors on toys you don't really need to work, but not on stuff you depend on. That's just my take.
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       05-03-2006, 1:47 PM Reply   
I agree $4400 isn't bad, but you said you don't have the money right now. If money is an issue, I recommend either refinancing and skimming off $4400 as someone suggested (if you can swing it), or doing a long block yourself. I think you would be lucky to get what you owe on it on trade-in, but there's no way you could replace it for $16.5 - 18k total investment.

The question still begs: are you happy with this boat, do you have your eye on a new one, or are you looking to just duck out of boating altogether?
Old    Craig (yosquire)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-03-2006, 2:28 PM Reply   
I'm addressing the long-block/short-block question.

Long-block: Engine, including heads, not including intake/exhaust manifolds, no valve covers, sometimes no oil pan.

Short-block: Same as above, just no heads.

I'd personally advise looking for a long-block. As you know an over-heating condition occurred, and you don't know if there is damage to the heads. If you want to do a short-block, pull your heads, take them to a machine shop and have them magnafluxed. This will detect any cracks that are not visible to the naked eye. If they're good, then sure, go with a short block.
Old    catfishh            05-03-2006, 3:01 PM Reply   
Yes, both heads are cracked so I need a long block. I definetely will not be getting out of boating. I love wakeboarding and this is my first wakeboard boat, I have only owned it for two months and already put 50hrs on it. I am going to probably just suck it up and charge it on the Visa. Not the best plan with a house on the market and a newborn in the house but what can ya do... I would like to personally thank everyone who contributed to this forum and offered their advice to a stranger. If I can ever repay the favor I will. Thanks again and I hope you all have a better boating season than I have had so far!!!!
Old    Jman (jmanolinsky)      Join Date: Dec 2005       05-03-2006, 3:42 PM Reply   
Jeff,
Are you a complete klutz? Do you have a tool box? If you answered no to the first question and yes to the second, you and a buddy can do this yourself. It really isn't that hard to do and it doesn't take that long. You can probably do this over a weekend. I've pulled the motor out of my big block jet boat more than once. This is much easier than swapping motors in a car. Just take pictures, make notes and label wires and hoses. You can probably rent or buy a puller and engine stand for a couple of hundred dollars.

Hope this helps,
Jman
Old    Big E. (wakesetter101)      Join Date: Oct 2005       05-03-2006, 5:28 PM Reply   
I think for less than 2 grand you can be going again with a new motor and you doing the labor. It isnt that hard and like Jman said mark things and take some pictures.

What caused the motor to blow? Was it over heated?
Old    wake_and_bake            05-03-2006, 11:34 PM Reply   
where do you live? I might be interested in buying a blown up boat
Old    catfishh            05-04-2006, 11:15 AM Reply   
Oh don't get me wrong, I know this would be easy to do at home, but with a nagging wife in the driveway every hour and crying baby, oh and realtors and potential buyers coming in and out of the house with every question under the sun, then there is the work thing and findiing someone that will give up their weekend and turn wrenches in 90 degree weather!!! Beleive me I am with you guys but I also can not find a decent motor for under 3200, and if anyone else can I would love to see it. The problem is I don't want to put junk in the boat, I am planning on keeping it so no half-assing. I have been looking though and for a 350 chevy LONG block shipped (marine engine)-3200 is the cheapest I ahve found. Feel free to email me or post a link if you can beat that price, then 800 in labor=not a bad deal w/ a 1 week turn around also...
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       05-04-2006, 6:42 PM Reply   
I feel ya bro. Go with the $4400 + a week, know that you can get your money back out of the boat if you really need it, and enjoy your summer. :-)
Old    Wilson Lee (leewilson)      Join Date: Sep 2002       05-05-2006, 10:20 AM Reply   
Do you have insurance on the boat?

I blew out my motor due to a plastic bag being sucked in and fried my impellar.

Insurance covered the rebuilt engine removal and replacement. I added a full closed water cooling system, total bill $9,000, insurance covered half.

Make sure you have your story straight.

Wilson
Old    rodney (azwakekid)      Join Date: Apr 2005       05-05-2006, 1:39 PM Reply   
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/boa/157871927.html

and shiping couldnt be that much you could have it in your boat turn key for under 2k and a weekend of your time
Old    catfishh            05-07-2006, 8:36 AM Reply   
Went with the $4400.00 deal, boat will be back on wedsnesday. 18 month warranty, 90 days on labor. Thought about the ins. thing, but It would be a huge risk to try and play that off. Not really in the mood for an ins. fraud charge either!! But it definetely crossed my mind!
Old    Wilson Lee (leewilson)      Join Date: Sep 2002       05-07-2006, 9:33 PM Reply   
How did the motor crack? If it was caused by something out of your control and not wear and tear, your insurance may cover it. They cover if you hit a log and wreck your prop and drive shaft. I am not suggesting ins. fraud, see what your insurance will and will not cover.

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