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Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       04-25-2006, 11:16 AM Reply   
Look at the picture of J-rod's X1/X2 wake and then look at the pic of the new X2 wake. End debate. What else do you want. The transition is longer, the wake is cleaner and it stays that way all the way back. I also guarantee, being that is Callen's raley, that he is out close to 90'. I'm thinking the rider in the new X2 pic is at 75' from what was said. IMO there is no comparison and I will still stand by the fact that I think the X1/X2 wake isthe best wake MC has. It is the perfect combo of X-star and SAN wake that I've found.
Old    Jeff Vaaler (jcv)      Join Date: Oct 2005       04-25-2006, 11:17 AM Reply   
fb,

The people with enough money to buy a boat freely (no thought to cost) are going to want the most up-to-date, unique, and "cool" looking boats on the market, especially if they have kids. Yesterday it was Cobalts and cigar boats, today it's wakeboarding boats. I have absolutely no numbers to back this up but based solely on what I've seen on numerous lakes across the country, FAMILIES DO DRIVE THE WAKEBOARDING BOAT MARKET. For example, on my lake, there's a dozen 226's, LSV's, 247's, 23 XTI's, X-30's, X-45's, 24V's, etc. for every one VLX, SAN, X-1/X-2/X-Star, or 22V you see. Not to say the boats on the first list aren't awesome wakeboats--they are--but it's obvious the buyers (mostly wealthy, older family men/women) were interested first in size, comfort, and amenities, then in style, appearance, and brand status, and lastly in the wake capabilities for their children/guests.

And this isn't likely to change anytime soon, not that it needs to. It makes sense that the people with the nicest boats aren't big-time wakeboarders. To be an awesome rider, you NEED to devote A LOT of time on the water; something that doesn't bode well for making the kind of money you need to afford a nice new boat. It's a Catch-22. I laugh when my friends get angry at a $70k wakeboard boat pulling a tube or pulling a "bad" wakeboarder...like somehow they deserve the boat more because they can do a whirlybird on a over-priced piece of foam over someone who probably excelled in college, has their masters, put in 60 hour work weeks, and has the money to buy whatever the hell he wants and do whatever he likes with it.

GD,

Yep, I think you're out of luck. There's just not much profit to be made marketing strictly to the hardcore wakeboarding crowd. A 20' closed-bow wake machine would be a complete bomb in the the design room. Big boats = peaked interest from successful career men = $$$

(Message edited by JcV on April 25, 2006)
Old    C.I.E... AL Bischofbee (allen)      Join Date: Apr 2005       04-25-2006, 11:33 AM Reply   
"I do know the difference between a good wake and a bad wake, and I promise you- when dialed in correctly you will be stoked on the wake as well"

But I don't have all day for (a.) you to dial it in and (b.) the boat to get on to plane. I would just rather go ride an X1/X2 wake and get booted into the sky like we always do. There is a reason that MC didn't get rid of the 205/ X-star/ X2/ X1 hull, Why?..... Cause its the sickest wake ever. OLD FAITHFULL.

Nuf said, for now


Old    travis moye (driving)      Join Date: Jan 2003       04-25-2006, 11:45 AM Reply   
This is why I refrain from answering posts like this, you never win. No matter what I, or anyone else says, someone else is going to take a stab at you. It's lose/lose. The fact of the matter is, you have several guys who have spent a good bit of time in the boat messing around with weight configurations and love it, end of story. Ronnie isn't trying to compare it to anything. He was just posting pics that people have been begging for for months and giving his personal review. It's a different wake, much like the X-Star is. Not everybody has to love it. That's why they make different boats. As my dad use to say, "there is an ass for every seat."

And, as far as riding it the day before or after a contest for a few hours, I'm going to say that's not enough time. I won't mention any manufacturers or names("out of respect"), but I have been in a couple new boats for multiple days with very knowledgeable and experienced people, and never figured it out. When you are dealing with a new hull it takes a little time to learn how to weight it, ride it, and drive it.

And, I'm not just defending it because it's a MasterCraft. I am defending, because I have spent some time in it, and really liked it. If it was crap, I wouldn't say a word on here. I would sit in the corner and hoped this thread went away. Much like I will do now.
Old    Jeff Vaaler (jcv)      Join Date: Oct 2005       04-25-2006, 11:56 AM Reply   
i'd bet every dime i have (which isn't too much unfortunately) that someone--even if it is only one person on the whole planet--who doesn't own either boat will like the wake of the new x-2 much better than the old. is that person wrong?
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       04-25-2006, 12:11 PM Reply   
My beef is with manufacturers fixed to build hard to sink expensive hogs (gas, ballast & garage hogs). Its not about someone else's butt in that seat, its about my butt in that seat!
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       04-25-2006, 12:14 PM Reply   
Funny, the older 205 was designed as a skiboat which to date produces one of the best wakes. Yet wake specific boats have a more difficult time producing. CC and MC both lucked out.
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       04-25-2006, 12:20 PM Reply   
Ya, the SAN and X1 hulls are from the mid 1990s.

Only BU has improved on their best (old VLX (my boat) to new VLX).
Old    Matthew Bird (ldr)      Join Date: Nov 2002       04-25-2006, 1:29 PM Reply   
jeff Valeer hit it on the head. The new boats are more about being comfortable for large wealthy families. If you read the interview with the CEO of Mastercraft you would have seen that their target market is to older more affluent families. Simply because that is where the money is.
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       04-25-2006, 1:45 PM Reply   
I agree with a lot of the points on here. We could probably stop killing the dead horse, but I think this thread is interesting.

Malibu has it figured out right now, but isn't getting much recognition for it. I'd love to have a box stock boat that makes a wake like a wakeboat should and the VLX does just that. What's up with buying a wakeboat, then spending hours and weeks getting the wake "dialed" in. Isn't that what R&D is for? How would you like to buy a Porsche that handled like crap, then spend months changing springs, shocks and running gear to make it right. How is that any different.

Really, how hard is it? I guess we should actually be glad the X1 keeps getting moved downmarket. It's the boat we really want to ride behind. What would I do if the most expensive boat made the best wake. I'd have to take another loan on my house to get one.

Anyway, I'm sure we'll give the X2 some more time to prove itself. I'm just saying that next year when I go looking at boats I'll be more inclined than ever to look at the VLX.
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       04-25-2006, 1:55 PM Reply   
Ya, when cope's had the X1 with tower and racks at the boat show for $40K, I thought it was the best deal in town (nearly a steal). Next, when I learned that they were not selling many, I was surprised.
Old    Joe Mitchell (mitchj)      Join Date: Aug 2002       04-25-2006, 2:16 PM Reply   
Maybe they are played out?
Old    Jeff Vaaler (jcv)      Join Date: Oct 2005       04-25-2006, 2:37 PM Reply   
not played out. just most boat payers would prefer paying $70k for a boat that comfortably sits 15 than pay $40k for a 20 foot, 90 inch beem boat, even if the wake is legendary. mastercraft was trying to appease the hardcore wakeboarding crowd (props to them, they could have easily continued to sell that hull for $55k), but unfortunately we're all broke

the passionate boarders that actually have the money tend to be over the age of 25, so they have to entertain the needs of a family (or an impending family) as well. let's be honest though, if ALL we cared about was the wake, we'd all be in 2001 nautiques. best wake for your dollar right? i think everyone appreciates the creature comforts, hardcore wakeboarder or not

(Message edited by JcV on April 25, 2006)
Old    du540            04-25-2006, 4:32 PM Reply   
Did you go and get a new boat, Ronnie??

Lucky sucka

Have fun!!!

Ron Mart
www.numbskullpro.com
Old    roadking            04-25-2006, 6:27 PM Reply   
GEEZ, Go buy the boat with the features and add ons YOU like, along with the WAKE YOU like and then who gives a dump wether the people on here like it or not. I doubt they will be helping you pay for it. In most cases they are jealous you have a new boat and they don't!
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       04-25-2006, 6:39 PM Reply   
i guess that means boat owners are the only ones allowed to give opinions on boats and their wakes. otherwise, they're just jealous.
Old    upupnaway            04-25-2006, 6:58 PM Reply   
Boat owners cannot give opinions.... They have ownership goggles!


Old    Big Ed (big_ed_x2)      Join Date: Jul 2004       04-26-2006, 7:54 AM Reply   
Everybody has goggles...owners and whores!
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       04-26-2006, 8:10 AM Reply   
I don't have ownership goggles at all.

I just know what is important to me in a boat and the wake is number 1.
Old    Big Ed (big_ed_x2)      Join Date: Jul 2004       04-26-2006, 8:20 AM Reply   
There are exceptions to every rule. surprisingly you got a different brand boat then your goggles show.....j/k


If you ask me,I don't have goggles either(which most will disagree)I know what is important to me as well therefore got my X2.
Old    eric fox (fox)      Join Date: Jul 2002       04-26-2006, 8:29 AM Reply   
Mastercraft has solved a number of problems with this boat. They have created a wake specific boat for the small lake/private lake market. They have solved the storage issues plagueing a lot of boats in this category. They have found a way to cram more people in a small boat.
Old    NAW (ripr)      Join Date: Mar 2002       04-26-2006, 8:42 AM Reply   
...they still haven't solved the issue of having a 20' boat that's 15% more than it's competition in the 20' market.

Sorry, couldn't help throwing a log on the fire.
Old    soulrider (projectely4)      Join Date: Apr 2003       04-26-2006, 9:21 AM Reply   
NAW please name another boat in the 20' market that is as well designed and built as the X2 and that will explain your comment.

this boat is totally unique with all its features and only measuring 20'
Old    Jeff Vaaler (jcv)      Join Date: Oct 2005       04-26-2006, 9:28 AM Reply   
well, if the x-2's in your area are as expensive as they are here (easily over $60k), you could techinally get a 22 or even 23 foot boat for much much less. they are the nicest 20' boat on the market though (if you count the x-1 as 21'), but it may have the highest price per foot ratio of any boat not named x-star
Old    NAW (ripr)      Join Date: Mar 2002       04-26-2006, 9:33 AM Reply   
Well designed is a matter of opinion. Well built is another argument that has been beat to death and subject to much speculation, debate and even opinion.

The only thing unique is the pickle fork bow. It's still a 20' V-drive. Calabria, Tige and Supra all offer 20' V-drives.

Don't get me wrong, I like the boat, I just had higher expectations for such a well respected manufacturer. Would I ride behind it everyday...you betcha!
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       04-26-2006, 9:58 AM Reply   
Jeff, some of us prefer smaller boats (because the are easier to store/fuel and generally build better wakes). Price per foot would never motivate me to buy a 23' boat.
Old    Jeff Vaaler (jcv)      Join Date: Oct 2005       04-26-2006, 10:33 AM Reply   
GD, I know, I like smaller boats as well. I don't think I'd ever own a boat over 22'. I was just pointing out it's odd that a 20 foot boat can cost so much more than a 23' boat when they're made of similiar materials. not to mention it's a 20' boat that apparently needs to be weighed like a 23 footer anyway. i really like the boat, but the prices i've seen are absurd.

(Message edited by JcV on April 26, 2006)
Old    Jeff Schwartz (jschwart73)      Join Date: Apr 2002       04-26-2006, 11:17 AM Reply   
GD - I remember that 195's wake. :-) I occasionally miss my boat, but not that often...
Old    eric fox (fox)      Join Date: Jul 2002       04-26-2006, 12:45 PM Reply   
Are you comparing a 20 boat and a 23 foot boat from the same manufacturer? I have a good rough figure for a loaded out x2 locally and I am certain that optioned with the same equipment an x-star would be much more. I am no longer certain how that pertains to the x1 but would assume them to be similar price to the x2 with comparable equipment.
Old    Bill Montanye (bill)      Join Date: Feb 2001       04-26-2006, 4:42 PM Reply   
good point evan

i agree and also agree the old x2 has a more user friendly boat in the wake s big and easy to get it that way..

i hate the Xstar wake and ridden it five times but others love it ...

i like the wakes like san,x1,ssv,and vlx so you all are right about mc going the wrong way for a lot of old schooloers but the boats do look good,they are big and seem to be liked by the pros so they are still going to be in business for a while :-)

bt i also agree about contests being hard to judge a new wake but the 4 i mentioned above especially the san i can do better behind them at contests because they are steep and predictable ,they allow you to take quick short cuts and you can cheat your edge so you get more in and less stress..

wide rampy wakes take longer cuts and longer releases off the wake,hard to get used to if your not on one regularly..
Old    roadking            04-26-2006, 5:19 PM Reply   
Naw, what where your expectations that were not met with the new X-2? Bill, different boats for different people, but most riders now are into 80' plus ropes and want to take wide cuts and charge the wake, a large cresting wake will cruch you if you hit it like that, but like I said different boats for different people. Also not sure where your getting your prices but most nicely equipped 06 X2 can be had for less than 60K, but if you add 4 tower speakers and 4 lights etc, the cost of any boat will rise.

MasterCraft is the only maufacturer that is always thinking out of the box and taking the chances, thats why they are the leader, not the follower. When I say leader I don't mean numbers, I mean inovation in design, graphics, towers, board racks, throttle by wire, saltwater specific boats and I could go on and on and on. I just read CC is now going to be looking for another President, they can't keep them. They hire a guy from Sea Ray to handle a sport specific boat, those guys don't get it, and I am sure thats why he is going back to where he came from. CC makes a fine boat, but there seems to be some rumbleings within upper management. I wish them luck and sucess.

(Message edited by roadking on April 26, 2006)
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       04-26-2006, 8:17 PM Reply   
"I could go on and on and on. "

Please don't. What a crock.

I own a Mastercraft and I still thought your post was rediculous.

Old    zakman (zacky)      Join Date: Apr 2003       04-26-2006, 8:46 PM Reply   
Been to a Mastercraft sales seminar lately?
Please. I'm with J-Rod... that was a rediculous thing to post. I would venture to say that 90%+ of wake boat manufacturers have something exclusively innovative on their product. However, they all could be peeking through the gate at the Mastercraft prototype facility, stole Mastercraft's "innovations" and put them into production before Mastercraft could...

Mastercraft makes a fantastic product and I think few would dispute that, but let's be real here...
Old     (attila916)      Join Date: Oct 2005       04-26-2006, 10:57 PM Reply   
Reading this post sapped me of the energy required for coming up with an informative, cohesive, and valuable post.
Old     (kampus96)      Join Date: Oct 2005       04-26-2006, 11:08 PM Reply   
Upload


sorry that they are action shots i know its harder to see the wake...first shot is half ballast two people in the boat...2nd shot is no ballast two people in the boat..rope at 70...i love this wakeUpload
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       04-27-2006, 8:34 AM Reply   
I got no problems with wakeskaters, but I also know they aren't looking for the same type of wake that a wakeboarder is. When was the last grabbed five on a wakeskate or an invert for that matter?

MC is definitely inovative, but so are the other manufacturers. I definitely wouldn't say they are the only ones.
Old    Jeffrpod (jeffrpod)      Join Date: Jun 2005       04-27-2006, 5:05 PM Reply   
I rode behind an 06 X2 this winter, and I rode behind an 05 VLX most of season so I can compare the two wakes. As a "Beginner/Intermediate" rider, both are great wakes; however, I got a lot more straight up pop from the X2 wake. Even with the VLX stock MLS (including bow) and wedge and a little extra ballast, the X2 wake had more pop. I agree, the X2 wake looks smaller in the pics but the pop is awesome. Pic below is 06 X2 with about an extra 1,000lbs and 2 people in the boat. Also, the X2 does not sway at all side to side - I was very impressed. Upload
Old    Tyler Jacobsen (delta_rider)      Join Date: Apr 2006       04-27-2006, 5:46 PM Reply   
Are most of these pics shot at the Delta?
Old    Ronnie Romero (rorowake)      Join Date: Oct 2003       04-27-2006, 7:22 PM Reply   
Since this thread isn't going away... Here are a couple shots from today. Tried to make sure we weren't turnin' :-)
Upload
Upload
Upload
Upload
Old    D C (dirwoody)      Join Date: Apr 2003       04-27-2006, 7:26 PM Reply   
hey ronnie, I'm going to be living in lincoln this summer, is there any way you can hook me up with some pulls?
Old    Jeff Vaaler (jcv)      Join Date: Oct 2005       04-27-2006, 7:31 PM Reply   
"Tried to make sure we weren't turnin'"

haha, good thinking. it's just a matter of time until someone breaks out photoshop to point out flaws. i'm officially converted though. that lip is crazy thick. until i get a chance to ride it myself and make up my own mind, i think it rocks
Old    soulrider (projectely4)      Join Date: Apr 2003       04-28-2006, 4:08 AM Reply   
hey ronnnie i was just wondering what rope length you were all riding at in these pictures.
Old    Eddy Celis (bughunter)      Join Date: Nov 2001       04-28-2006, 7:00 AM Reply   
It sure looks like a very good wake.
AND a nice looking boat as well...
Old    mstimpson            04-28-2006, 8:06 PM Reply   
what a long thread to get through. I just wanted to say, I love my x-1 wake, and we currently don't weight it up too much to accommodate the beginners we pull, myself included. It was nice to find a boat brand new and reasonably priced. After speakers, lights, tax tag and title I still ended up over Fifty though.
Old    Paul Hanna (faceplanter69)      Join Date: Mar 2006       04-30-2006, 9:46 AM Reply   
Jeffrpod

IMO I think that's BU's biggest issue when it comes to their boats. They have great style, are super comfy to ride in ect ect. When you look at their wake in a picture or from the boat they can look huge. However, they don't give you that straight up pop though like a SANTE or older X-2. When I compare my old wake to say my CC it's like saying the BU has a mellow continous rocker vs an explosive 3 stage board rocker.

I think you can compare size all day long, but I say the most important thing is what the wake does to you when you hit it. If it's large rampy, soft with no pop what's the point?
Old    Jeff Vaaler (jcv)      Join Date: Oct 2005       04-30-2006, 5:58 PM Reply   
Paul, I know it may be a mystery to you as to why, but some people (not the majority, but a lot) actually prefer rampy wakes. They take less wear and tear on your body and give you the same height (IF you know what you're doing) even if it doesn't feel like it. I will say the margin for error is larger on a steeper wake. As long as you approach the wake with any kind of edge--even if you flatten off--you'll get some pop where as you can just flat out miss the pop on a rampy wake. As always, it's just a preference thing.
Old    soulrider (projectely4)      Join Date: Apr 2003       04-30-2006, 7:54 PM Reply   
there is nothing wrong with a rampy wake as long as it isn't mushy and soft. it has to have a really solid and crisp fell to it.
Old    Jeff Vaaler (jcv)      Join Date: Oct 2005       04-30-2006, 8:20 PM Reply   
someone still has to explain to me how a big, rampy wake with a round lip can be soft. the only thing determining actual "hardness" is how much water is backing the wake. maybe it's just me, but i can't visualize a rampy wake with a long transition where the back falls out quickly. it would have to have a peaky lip for that to occur
Old    Tom (laptom)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-04-2006, 3:38 AM Reply   
I don't want to add extra ballast. Just give me a boat with stock ballast tanks (max 1000lbs) and which produce a nice wake that way. I'm not a pro, I ride mostly with 2-3 persons in the boat. I like a 4g/h gas consumption.

Just build me that kind of boat MC, CC, Bu or Epic!
Old    Jeffrey Byron (99xstar)      Join Date: Aug 2005       05-04-2006, 1:36 PM Reply   
This thread has just made me more and more happy that I own the boat I do. Jeff Vaaler seems to have it right in his post about matching the price of the boats with what those people want to use the boats for. I can tell you that my boat and comfort are arch rivals, but the wake is oh so money. I just hope that MC keeps making my hull whether they call it the X-1 or whatever so that I can buy one when my boat finally dies.

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