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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive > Archive through March 15, 2006

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Old    depoint50ae (depoint50ae)      Join Date: Jul 2005       03-06-2006, 6:11 PM Reply   
Any one test drive the new Tahoe? I am considering picking one up. It seems like it would be a pimp tow rig.
Old    Bruce Mac (brucemac)      Join Date: Dec 2005       03-06-2006, 6:17 PM Reply   
i looked at one. they're nice, but the new tahoe LTZ loaded is over 50. not worth it imo. i was going to wait for the new suburban ltz, but i found out what they were going to charge for it (laughed), and decided to pull the trigger on an 06 denali xl loaded. we got a sweet deal and they've got huge rebates on them right now because they're making room for the new 07 body style. if you're in the market and are willing to get an 06, now is the time, otherwise, i'm betting it will be next year this time before you see any great deal on the 07 chev/gmc stuff. they are nice though, but i prefer the looks of the tahoe over the new yuk's and i definitely prefer the looks of the 06 denali's over all of them. (owner goggles) ;) basically, you could buy a new 06 denali xl loaded for less than a 07 tahoe ltz.
Old    Bruce Mac (brucemac)      Join Date: Dec 2005       03-06-2006, 6:20 PM Reply   
this is what i picked up saturday. :-) it's tight.
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Old    depoint50ae (depoint50ae)      Join Date: Jul 2005       03-06-2006, 6:48 PM Reply   
Sweet rig. I am going to be out of the states for 3 or so years so I am looking forward to all the new rides that are going to be available when I return. I have always had trucks and I am thinking about getting into the SUV market. Trucks are nice but everyone wants you to help them move.
Old    Bruce Mac (brucemac)      Join Date: Dec 2005       03-06-2006, 6:54 PM Reply   
right on, good luck and thanks for your service.
Old    Sean (slax303)      Join Date: Oct 2005       03-06-2006, 7:47 PM Reply   
I work for Chevy and I would definately suggest getting the new 07 Tahoe. I love it. It is spendy but when you sit in it, theres just no full size SUV in my mind that is in its class. I was planning on buying a vette this spring but with the new tahoe and now the new avalanche coming out (same style as the tahoe), Im starting to think twice.
Old    Kyle (kylek306)      Join Date: Feb 2003       03-07-2006, 8:56 AM Reply   
My parents just got one. It's a LTZ with every option. It's really is like sean said about being out of the class of other full size SUV's. Haven't pulled the boat with it yet but pulled a couple of trailers with it and it did really well. We didn't pay sticker price though. (Owner of a chevy lot is a relative)
Old    Mark B (wakehound)      Join Date: Oct 2003       03-07-2006, 9:20 AM Reply   
I was looking at the LTZ too, but if you option out the 07 Yukon with everything the same, it looks like the price is about $5k less.
Old     (attila916)      Join Date: Oct 2005       03-08-2006, 12:22 AM Reply   
I was told they are offering 1.9% for 72 months even on the 07's
Old    depoint50ae (depoint50ae)      Join Date: Jul 2005       03-08-2006, 6:04 AM Reply   
I hope the 2010 are as sweet as this!
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I wonder what the going GM employee discount price on this bad boy is?

Sean is GM really going to file bankruptcy or is that just BS?
Old    Sean (slax303)      Join Date: Oct 2005       03-08-2006, 6:31 AM Reply   
I highly doubt it. Theyre in a much better state than Ford is right now. There's been no talk of it where I am. And the employee discount is really nice.. around 15k off on the top model LTZ.
Old    depoint50ae (depoint50ae)      Join Date: Jul 2005       03-08-2006, 7:48 AM Reply   
That is good news. It sucks to have to worry if the company that you bought your vehicle from might not be in business long enough to cover the warranty! People need to put there money into the domestic vehicle companies.
Old    Jon (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       03-08-2006, 8:34 AM Reply   
GM will not go out of business. Even if they file bankrupcy they will restructure and not go completley out of business. I would nto worry about that.
Old    Ty (wakeandsnow27)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-08-2006, 3:08 PM Reply   
^true... the govt wouldnt let that happen.
thousands and thousands of jobs gone...not hapn.
Old    Jon (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       03-08-2006, 4:40 PM Reply   
GM's financial problems come from all the retirement benefits that they have to pay. So if worst came to worst they would file bankrupcy to get rid of all of the benefits that they have to pay.
Old    Machew (mbrown)      Join Date: May 2005       03-08-2006, 5:35 PM Reply   
HIJACK, Sorry

I hope nobody starts believing in the propaganda which is worker salaries and "retirement benefits" are going to push any company into bankruptcy. Financial problems stem from company direction being determined by a few people's greed.

Last year in a honest attempt to save United Airlines the pilot's and mechanic's union agreed to millions in contract concessions. In return the company was delivered from bankruptcy after it's stock sank to all time lows where many of the directors gobbled up shares. They then forced the concessions, Wall Street responded and made the board of directors millionaires at the cost of working family's health care and wages. The board of directors then voted themselves a minimum of 5 million in bonus. The company was never in real danger. The board wanted the workers to carry the high fuel prices on their backs not the board. GREED, not benefits.
GM's Richard Wagoner, after negotiating millions in concessions last year received a salary of 2 mil and a bonus of 2.5 mil. Good job RICHARD, I wonder how many autoworkers could receive health benefits for 2.5 mil. This year Richard has given up his bonus and promises more cuts since he had his salary cut.
The new CEO Kerkorian has promised cuts as well. Mostly self serving. He will be able to purchase 12 million shares after gaining concessions. His plan is to push GM into bankruptcy like United and buy those shares for pennies on the dollar. One analyst says he stands to make close to 100 million on the deal. The union will concede in a guise to save jobs but the only thing they are saving is Kerkorian's multimillion dollar estate.
We also have to remember that since 1979 the autoworkers in this country have seen an annual increase in wages and benefits at or around 1.17% per year. CEO's have seen 9.25 % per year, almost 5 times that of the workers. The public has seen a five time increase in car prices.
So I hope people on this sight will start blaming the true reasons for company bankruptcies-poor management and GREED. Wages and benefits have become the scapegoats for many greedy CEO's and directors. Truth is THEIR multimillion salaries and exorbitant bonuses are what's driving corporate collapse.


Old    Clint (ttuclint)      Join Date: Sep 2003       03-08-2006, 5:40 PM Reply   
so how many dollars an hour does one get paid to tighten lug nuts on a factory line ?
Old    Machew (mbrown)      Join Date: May 2005       03-08-2006, 5:56 PM Reply   
Depends on years of service (new hires depending on location around 18/hr.). It's probably not enough to buy a new Bu and feed a family.
Old    depoint50ae (depoint50ae)      Join Date: Jul 2005       03-08-2006, 6:16 PM Reply   
Preach on Brother Machew!

They closed down the GM plant her in Oklahoma City. They announced the closeing 3 weeks before Christmas. They wanted to wait until after the holidays but the story leaked and they had to come out with the news. I feel for the workers that have invested there time into a job that just vanished. Job security is so rare. It will probably be the main reason if I decide to retire in the military. You will never get rich in the military but you can at least sleep at night knowing that the bills are going to be taken care of.
Old    Marco (macrogpx2)      Join Date: Dec 2005       03-08-2006, 7:39 PM Reply   
I agree, it is a good looking truck, but with that huge one piece front bumper how will it look lifted? Has anyone seen pics or heard of companies coming out with lift kits for it yet?
Old    Jon Shaffer (jpshaff01)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-08-2006, 9:55 PM Reply   
depoint50ae: It's too bad plants are going to be shut down but some fat needs to be trimmed GM has 89 models which calls for too many unproductive plants and too many parts. Toyota only has 26 models which makes their plants more efficient and even leaves more funds avalable for development.

Machew:
First off i don't think that if you are a starting line worker you should be able to have a new Bu hahaha. My dad is an unclassified Gm exec (minimum 60 hrs/week) who just took a straight up pay cut and has less benefits than the UAW workers. He can't afford a new bu and also be able to feed me and my bastard siblings.

As far as the autoworkers raises and ceo's raises thats just more crap, salaray workers for gm are given a raise based on what other people doing jobs in the same field throught the industry are getting paid. Wagoner took a pay cut to help GM but all that insures in that he will leave soon and believe me they won't find anyone good for that price. The UAW workers are getting paid way more than anyone else with the same skills or equal jobs.

The wages do go by experience and years of service. The average age of a Gm plant worker is 51, put it together . These jobs are so easy no one wants to leave.

So in conclusion on that, all the salary guys here in detroit are now getting paid less than other people in there field so why won't they go somewhere else to get paid at least the average. Thats just planning for mediocrity. While they could cut the plant workers wages to be in standard for other plant workers around the country.

GMAC has 20 billion in liquidity, so that could keep them afloat for 2-3 years easy. As a last resort they will sell GMAC since its there most profitable asset.
Old    Nick Heckerson (kstateskier)      Join Date: May 2002       03-08-2006, 10:44 PM Reply   
IMO $37,550 is a nice starting wage for a person with littke required education. There are days I'd gladly take that to go in for 8 hours and then leave. I don't like my hourly wage when it's divided by 60+ hours!

(Message edited by kstateskier on March 08, 2006)
Old    Machew (mbrown)      Join Date: May 2005       03-09-2006, 12:54 AM Reply   
Jon you make a tremendous amount of assumptions probably based on some middle management philosophies your father has been telling you.
Unclassified GM execs are not the fat cats at the top making themselves multimillionaires through stock purchases following bankruptcies and concessions. But, not as bad off as you might claim.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060112/AUTO01/601120365
GM's Lutz: Don't cut exec pay - 01/12/06 - The Detroit News

To summarize- the cuts only affected the year end bonus and salaries were merely froze for 2 years. You should be able to buy a Bu and send your son to college on 200K a year with or without the bonus. As for having less benefits, what is it that your dad is lacking that is more than made up for in that extra 160K he makes over the autoworker.
Same skills? That's sort of an assumption on your part. Do you really know what a workers skill set is? Have you been through the training?
Easy Job? You derived this from some strange statistic. Lets see the average age of a boat owner is 37 so they must like hot coffee. It doesn't make since! You came up with the level of difficulty for a skilled worker's job based on their age. The average age of the country is 65 so running into a few 50 year olds around the plant might be possible. You might even find some who are dedicated to a company that has fed them for 20+ years.
Finding anyone good for a directors position?- assumption. I think 2 mil will probably lure some poor soul in.
GMAC is part of the sell off on the way to bankruptcy. Thanks Kerkorian.

So, for all this "crap" that is out there, sure does seem you have not made your point(s).
The top execs in this country have seen the greatest increase in their salary and benefits over the last 20 years. The workers have not kept pace. You will see many more stories of corporate corruption and forced worker concessions in the coming years. Try picking up a WSJ, read more Jon, and when you see the headlines "worker's/retirees are bankrupting a company" you can check the insider stock transactions (SEC form 114) and see that someone is getting filthy rich and workers are losing.
By the way a manager at Starbucks makes about $20/hour and are exposed to far less carcinogenic plant chemicals (almost like a sweet GM desk job but with lots of Jazz).
Old    Jon Shaffer (jpshaff01)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-09-2006, 7:18 AM Reply   
Who's to say somone in my dads position shouldn't make more money than an autoworker, Give me a break its obvious that if you couldnt cut the minimum 6 years of school, than quit complaining. You get a return on your investment like anything else in life

The reason why i said that the average age of autoworkers is 51 was more to show where they are getting their raises from. You show that 1.17% wage increase stat like its the nail in the coffin. But then you admit that wages depend on years of service, obiviously the 1.17% is without inflation. So why should an autoworker econnomically make more now than the 70's. That fact is useless. AS far as the ceo's getting better increases, thats the way it goes. All CEO's make that money its not just GM's.

You can't say hourly wages specifically as comparisson. I'm sure starbucks pays people according to the standard of living in the area, its not just a 20/hr flat rate across the country. Hell if you live in california you probably get paid 15 bucks an hour to collect carts at wal-mart.

I think maybe you should set up an interview with starbucks if its sounds so much better to you.
Old    Erin M (emay)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-09-2006, 8:31 AM Reply   
Let me see if I can get us back on track. Here's my Nali.. I'll track down some more recent pics of her with the boat attached, just had to show Bruce the potential.

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Also, I drove the new Tahoe, it lacks a lot in the interior in my opinion. The exterior though is one of the best out there I think.
Old    Erin M (emay)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-09-2006, 8:43 AM Reply   
Found one, gotta get some pics I guess, got none with my 13th floor tower on.

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Old    Machew (mbrown)      Join Date: May 2005       03-09-2006, 11:34 AM Reply   
Jon I don't know where you continually come up with these assumptions. Do some research and bring some facts. How do you know people working the line have not gone to college? How do you know how many years I went to school? How do you make a statement that autoworkers are less deserving, in an exponential way, than CEO's in sharing in a company's profits?
Many companies these days support their employees in terms of compensation as well as intangible job rewards. GM is not one of those companies, as you can clearly see between the growing disparity between worker and management compensation (adjusted for inflation, of course). But like you say Oh well "that's the way it is". It still doen't make it right. Unless you believe Gordon Gecko "greed is good".
Starbucks national does not pay regional salaries, but does provide profit sharing. Much like Malibu, Genetech, Whole Foods Market, and dare I say Valero energy along with the other 100 names that made the 2006 best place to work list. Dedication to the employees and customers drive these companies not greed, not stock option shell games, and not taxpayer assisted bankruptcies.
Good luck in school Jon, maybe I 'll see you sitting next to Fastow one day. Probably will, especially if you think there's nothing wrong with how current executives are playing greedy managment games at the expense of regular guys.

Nice Ride!!by the way...
Old    Peter_C (peter_c)      Join Date: Sep 2001       03-09-2006, 12:29 PM Reply   
GM needs to learn from Toyota, who is now the #1 car manufacturer in the world. Our technology sucks! Our build quality is crap! It can be turned around though by completely re-engineering and retuning GM's vehicles and plants. The American manufacturing plants are not automated to the standards of Japan. We have a lot to learn. Fuel prices are not going to drop and that very much dictates auto sales.

Before someone bashes me I am proud to own a K2500 Suburban.

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