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Old    3rd Coast (lol1585)      Join Date: Feb 2005       11-08-2005, 6:13 AM Reply   
I'm wanting to know which one I could get a bigger and better wake out of. I like the fact that on a i/o you can put the sacs beside the motor , in the skilocker ,in the front and they are out of the way. I have heard alot of mixed opinions and I really want to know from the guys that have had both. I can't spend more than around 10k on a boat so I want to get the best bang for my buck I guess you can say. I learned behind a ski nautique and we had about 600lbs plus about 5ppl and the wake was really not that big and it was really crowded. Thats why I started looking into the I/O's. I know its harder to maintain speed on and I/o but I really want to know which one would put out a better wake.
Old    Adam Curtis (acurtis_ttu)      Join Date: May 2004       11-08-2005, 6:48 AM Reply   
If sacs are on the floor there not out of the way. If you wanna party more than you ride get an I/O, just make sure you always have a good driver who can hold speed. If not buy a good used inboard, most of the time a better shaped wake adn nearly all the time better resale.
Old    Brendan (kybool)      Join Date: Aug 2004       11-08-2005, 7:50 AM Reply   
Everyone on this site is going to tell you to go with an older DD. I/Os just are not that great for wakeboarding. Don't get me wrong you can get a decent wake out of one, but you'll get a much better wake out of an older DD, like a SN 2001. Like Adam said above, it's hard to get them to hold speed and the wake is very inconsistent.
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       11-08-2005, 9:14 AM Reply   
besides all the performance downfalls of the I/O its resale value will go down dramatically faster compared to an older direct drive.
Old    Bob (bob)      Join Date: Feb 2001       11-08-2005, 10:10 AM Reply   
Ok now have any of you that just posted riden behind an I/O with PP, plenty of power (V8 and the right prop), fat sacs, and a tower? I have and ride regularly behind a supra ssv also which has way better wake then any older D drive. You will spend just as much money on an older D drive to set up properly unless it already has all the goodies. That is exactly why all wakeboard boats already come with them...the are required!
Lets compare apples to apples not an older D drive with fat sacs, tower, PP , and lower pitch prop to get all that weight going to a basic I/O off the showroom floor. If you can get a properly set up older D for the same price and you never run on rough water do it but if they are the same price dont rule out a 19-20 I/O that has the right motor but just like the D plan on spending a few grand getting it in shape for boarding. Use the I/O resale deal everyone downs I/O's for to your advantage and get one cheap or so everyone keeps saying?? Dont buy anything under 19' and definitely dont get anything but a V8 engine. All the rest you can add later, stereo, tower, racks, PP, prop, etc. Oh yea the older D's didnt make 310 HP like the newer ones so that advantage is out.
Sorry Scott to pull the plug on your theory but i needed to speak up. This is all JMO but there are others on this site that have had similar experiences with a properly set up I/O.
Bash away
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       11-08-2005, 10:28 AM Reply   
never been in/behind I/O. I think someone on WW has a 26' I/O and the rider doesn't pull around. my comment was about depreciation. and the 265 horses in my 'older D drive' is plenty. are you telling me that your new 19 foot I/O isn't going to depreciate?

not bashing here, but the last thing I want to do is spend several grand on something I won't be able to get my money out of... JMO

Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       11-08-2005, 11:10 AM Reply   
yawn.
Old    Boardingitup.com (wakeboard19)      Join Date: Apr 2005       11-08-2005, 12:04 PM Reply   
We had a 1996 Regal I/O and it threw alot better wake then all the old direct drives except the nautique.
Old    Jeff Moore (jeff359)      Join Date: Jun 2005       11-08-2005, 12:35 PM Reply   
"Sorry Scott to pull the plug on your theory but i needed to speak up."

Like it's the first time Bob. EVERY I/O vs ski boat thread that pops up you need to start thrashing those with valid opinions. Trying to justify your boat purchase?

I can go down the laundry list of boats i have owned. Dozens between my father, brother, and I. They ranged from I/O's, bass boats, jets, daycruisers, flatbottoms, sportboats, and real ski boats. after experience with many types of boats, I'd never buy anything but a vdrive REAL wakeboard boat to board behind (if that was my only objective).

Here's my opinion(s) - blanket statement, direct drives and v's will be better for boarding, period. Across the board this will hold weight every time. Are there some I/O's that will throw better than some ski boats, maybe. Are there I/O's that'll roll with ALL wake/ski boats, uh no.

It comes down to YOUR purchase. If you like your boat, and it works for what you need, great.

I'm pulling the plug before I tell all you what I really think (you got the edited version above) about I/Os as wakeboard boats.
Old    Jon (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       11-08-2005, 1:10 PM Reply   
V-drives are going to be the best.
I was recently in your position. If you are on the budget like me you need to decide if you want to wakeboard or go to the lake. I decided taht I wanted to Wakeboard so I bought an 82 Correct Craft. This boat throws a great wakeboarding wake and handels well. But for the price I paid I could have bought and I/O that would have a pretty good wake and been about 15-20 years newer with more room.
I go out with a small crew and very rarely do we do anything other than board so that is why I chose what I did. Do not buy a boat like the one I bought if you are into cruizing around with a bunch of people and partying.
Old    billymac            11-08-2005, 3:06 PM Reply   
hey let's be honest here, not everybody can buy a new v-drive, but not everybody wants to buy a 15-20 year old boat either! like jeff said if your'e happy with it, that's all that matters--enjoy it. on the other hand, if you own a spendy v-drive, don't think just because someone skis or boards behind an i/o they're automatically a gaper. my wife and i bought our first boat this year, it's an i/o. it was within our budget and suits us as beginners very well. it's a great boat to learn how ride behind and we're not sick to our stomach every time we see it sitting in our driveway covered. :-) we slapped a great stereo in it and had a monster tower put on it and it works great. we're really happy. that's all that matters. it's all about respecting each other and remember, whoever has the most fun wins.

group hug!

/edit o
oh yeah, and if i could afford it, i'd buy an 06 X-2. maybe some day...

(Message edited by billymac on November 08, 2005)
Old    Patrick Vega (3205lpv)      Join Date: Nov 2005       11-08-2005, 3:06 PM Reply   
Bob your comment about old direct drives not having over 310 horsepower like they now do is wrong. I have a 1985 sunsport that has 350 horsepower.
Old    www.midwestwakeboarder.com (gmarkham1)      Join Date: Sep 2003       11-08-2005, 3:29 PM Reply   
here I you go... I have just what you need...

http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/8/250141.html?1127767901


send me a pm and I can get you a lot of pics/video of riding and what not

I/Os can work for what you want, and in my opinion will give you just as good as a wake as most older dd, which are no more wake specific boats then I/Os.

It is all a matter of what you want out of your boat and your budget. Myself, a open bow is a must which led me to the i/o which I had also bought before I started wakeboarding. Also, if you ever ride in rough water, an older dd is going to beat the crap out of you and itself.

gmarkham1@ameritech.net
Old    Bob (bob)      Join Date: Feb 2001       11-08-2005, 3:44 PM Reply   
Nacho, no i wont tell you that because everything except property/land depreciates eventually. Uh oh Jeff you figured me out, yes i do defend my position and have every right to just as you do yours. I dont think i thrashed anyone. I stated facts and by the way while your bashing I/O's ill bet you fit right in with my first line above or you surely would have defended riding behind one that was set up right and then bashed on it, but you didnt?? 3rd coast, im not the only one on this site that thinks an I/O can have as good a wake as most D drives, maybe not as good as some V drives but then again im not a pro and dont add 2000 lbs (did once, had 600 locker and 4 250's as well as 5 people) Wake was very large to say the least. Jeff you almost sound as if i shouldnt post my opinion because it differs from yours?? I think he was asking EVERYONES opinion that has had experience with BOTH and my point is that 90% of the bashers NEVER rode behind an I/O that was at least set up comparible to a D or V drive...I say again WHO HAS? 3rd coast why do you think everyone is going to an I/O style layout (V DRIVE)....because the older D's suck as far as room and ergonomics. There has been plenty argued over a similar hull with D or V giving a better wake and wake shape would be the same if the CG is the same on both by adding weight to the rear of the D. V CANT GIVE A BETTER WAKE JUST CAUSE THE MOTOR IS IN THE REAR, just like a tower cant give a better pull then a properly supported pylon(one that doesnt sway when rider cuts out). It physics. Now for the down sides i do know of, wake is wider, shape (same as D/V, can be different for different makes), outdrive can be an advantage and disadvantage. You can trim it most of the way up and it has alot of moving parts that can break if not maintained, mainly trim cyclinders and u joints.
WHEN DAVE STARTS BANNING PEOPLE WITH I/O's I'LL STOP POSTING
Old    Brendan (kybool)      Join Date: Aug 2004       11-08-2005, 4:42 PM Reply   
Bob, actually I do have plenty of experince riding behind a weighted 20 ft Bayliner with a V8. I rode behind my parent's boat for years before I bought my own last summer. I am sorry, but in my opinion there is no comparison. The wake on my folks boat was great at the time, but it didn't hold speed and the wake was different every single time out. Some days good, some days terrible. It was no different then a DD in the fact that there were fat sacs all over the floor.

You stated your opinion we are stating ours. I do have experience with both types of boats. IMO if you are into wakeboarding an I/O is the wrong choice.

The DD is a better choice for the simple fact that you can also wakesurf behind it, not to mention all the other reasons already posted. just my .02
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       11-08-2005, 7:09 PM Reply   
Bob, relax man. take a deep breath. no need in getting your panties in a knot over your boat. Sounds like you enjoy it a lot. Just opinions and preferences. (BTW 4 250s and a 600 isn't 2000) and the people were going to be on there anyway.

Now, here is a nice discussion about weighting I/Os:
http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/60406.html

have fun guys! i'll be back in a few days to see how many asses I/O Bob has destroyed

(Message edited by denverd1 on November 08, 2005)
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       11-08-2005, 7:21 PM Reply   
http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/60406.html
Old    Craig Cox (wakedoctor)      Join Date: Dec 2004       11-09-2005, 6:04 AM Reply   
Bob, I believe you are a little biased.

3rd Coast, Everyone confusses theirself when it comes to diferent motor and prop placements. Actually the running hull is what makes the wake not the motor. Their are some great I/0 out there and you can equip with PerfectPass, they will be newer boats in your price range, and the trim will be an advantage and disavantage(I fell this is why the wake is never constant for some). I honestly don't know why a V-drive got thrown into the subject because you will be looking at a D-drive with that price. A D-drive will offer you more control over you speed manually, Wake is always the same, and you can get your money out of it 3 or 4 years down the road. The downside is you are going to be looking at quite an older boat, Will have to buy some sacs (which it is about the same with any boat), and you will be giving up some room.

I've been skiing behind outboards, I/O's, and inboards for over 10 years. Last November I was in the same situation as you with the same budget and I went with the D-drive. I love the pull they give and they are notorious for their craftmanship.
Old    tribal            11-09-2005, 7:59 AM Reply   
Propped right holding speed on an I/O is not an issue.Bob's right,alot of you are comparing apples to oranges.Not all I/O's are 18' with a 4 banger.You need at least 19-20ft and a V8 as Bob said.
And I always love this depreciation arguement.Who said you have to go buy a new I/O.If they're all worthless after 2 years as everyone says maybe I'll pick myself up one of those

Here's a pic of my ghetto 1989 22' I/O wake,3 people,no weight on board.
Not all of us our rich but we can make it work
Funny thing is after 4 yrs of using this boat 200+ hrs a year I could still sell it for what I got into it.
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       11-09-2005, 8:37 AM Reply   
sean, that sounds like a reasonable argument. Older boats have finished depreciating, for the most part. Certainly, a boat's value will down a little year after year. But nothing compared to when its new. V Drive/D Drive/IO - doesnt' matter. new boats depreciate faster than older ones. remember, 3rd coast asked about I/Os vs. OLDER d drives. leads me to believe if I/O is the way to go, it will be newer. buy a boat - go have fun. im out

(Message edited by denverd1 on November 09, 2005)
Old    Craig Cox (wakedoctor)      Join Date: Dec 2004       11-09-2005, 11:10 AM Reply   
The reason every one talks about new vs. old is you can usually buy a new I/O for what you can and old D-drive. It's the same thing with people in the 40K price range, should they get the new Moomba or get the 3-4 year old SAN.

The speed issue has two differnt sides. Sure you can hold speed. I can watch the RPM's and tell what a boat is about to do most good drivers can. But it really doesn't matter how good you can drive when you are behing the boat. Unless you are good enough to drive yourself and I haven't figured that one out yet. See what I'am getting at?
Old    Bob (bob)      Join Date: Feb 2001       11-09-2005, 11:28 AM Reply   
Scott i respect your opinion but did the bayliner have perfect pass and a prop suited for boarding? How could the wake change from day to day if you put the trim at the same place everytime? I trim up till the trim stops at halfway by the switch on the outdrive so it is the same ALL the time. Just like a D it does change depending on crew size, ballast, and speed. Hell i hear people talking all the time on here trying to find out ballast placement and recomendations are to move people around till you get the right wake, now how can the wake be so consistent if your moving ballast around...same as I/O. This isnt even taking into account a wake plate or other device? Patrick , i stand corrected "Oh yea some ofthe older D's didnt make 310 HP like the newer ones."

Hers a quote from a nautique add though stating a 1990 model with only 240 HP "Year: 1990 Model: Ski Nautique Engine: PCM 351 Location: MI
Up for sale is a beautiful 1990 Correct Craft Ski Nautique. This boat is powered by a 351 PCM with approx. 240HP and a PCM 1.23:1 Power Plus transmis ... " from here so it seems we are both right
http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/list.asp?yrstart=1986&yrend=1990
Old    Jeff Moore (jeff359)      Join Date: Jun 2005       11-09-2005, 12:34 PM Reply   
Why are you guys still bangin your head against Bob here?

You have me sold Bob! I/O's rock, ski boats suck, we're all wrong. I want some trim. I'm trading my ride in.

A guy down the street has a 19 Bayliner with a cool tower and racks. He said he'd trade me straight across, and he'll add in perfect pass and buy me a couple fat sacks to make up for the ballast system in my boat. Whatcha guys think?
Old    Patrick Vega (3205lpv)      Join Date: Nov 2005       11-09-2005, 1:48 PM Reply   
Jeff I am glad you made a choice. I think a boat is a boat and as long as you can wakeboard behind it who cares. I have a question. I may be wrong on this
but why would a v drive throw a better wake than a d drive. The prop and rudder or in the same spot on each. So a boat that has a 500 lb. sac in the back would be the same as a v drive wouldn't it.
Old    Bob (bob)      Join Date: Feb 2001       11-10-2005, 5:14 AM Reply   
Jeff you are right, that D and V drive boats throw a great wake for boarding. I never said I/O's were better, just that they can be real good IF set up properly. Jeff im sure you read the few peoples statements above that were not bangin their heads against mine, they were backing my statements. Hey nacho you gave me a new idea for my name
Old    Bob (bob)      Join Date: Feb 2001       11-10-2005, 5:30 AM Reply   
Hey Patrick you may want to check your numbers again. Unless its a big block i found this "Settled for a nice Sunsport with 240 HP" from here http://www.supraboats.com/msgboard/read.php?TID=1221
also found this "PCM INBOARD V-8 240HP ENGINE, 1988" from here http://www.usedboats.com/index.php?site=usedboats.com&section=search&boatva lues=analysis&boatId=401998

you might be confusing cubic inches with horse power??

(Message edited by bob on November 10, 2005)
Old    Patrick Vega (3205lpv)      Join Date: Nov 2005       11-10-2005, 4:22 PM Reply   
No, it does make 350 horsepower. I am not confusing cubic inches. It is 454 cubic inches.

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