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Old    Trace (woundedknee)      Join Date: Apr 2002       09-25-2005, 12:19 AM Reply   
Does'nt landing blind require a back side spin.
on a TS FS 3 no handle pass, is that landing blind??

trace.
Old    R M (dr_inc)      Join Date: Mar 2005       09-25-2005, 12:49 AM Reply   
yes it it b/c u r landing BLIND!

u answered your own question there
Old    murrayair            09-25-2005, 1:11 AM Reply   
Yeah, fs 3's can be landed blind.
Old    Squid (twakess)      Join Date: Mar 2002       09-25-2005, 1:28 AM Reply   
I would call it landing wrapped.
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       09-25-2005, 1:38 AM Reply   
i'm inclined to agree w/ squid on this one. i don't think landing wrapped on a fs spin constitutes a blind landing.
Old    rammer (craiger)      Join Date: May 2002       09-25-2005, 8:11 AM Reply   
well, you are landing with your back to the boat and looking the opposite way from the boat, so...
Old    Thane Dogg (thane_dogg)      Join Date: Jun 2002       09-25-2005, 8:21 AM Reply   
ts3, or a switch hsbs 180, exact same landing.

If you do a hsfs 3 and don't pass the handle I would call that landing wrapped. A tsfs 3 no handle pass, I call landing blind.
Old    Bill Montanye (bill)      Join Date: Feb 2001       09-25-2005, 9:14 AM Reply   
i agree its completely different landing wrapped and blind are two different landings...Blind aka backside is really a rotation not a landing...
Old    Thane Dogg (thane_dogg)      Join Date: Jun 2002       09-25-2005, 10:37 AM Reply   
Blind is not a rotation.

Think about this: on a hsbs 3 you see the landing a lot earlier than you do on a hsfs 3.
Old    Midwestwakeboarder.com (mjmurphy53711)      Join Date: Mar 2004       09-25-2005, 2:03 PM Reply   
blind aka backside is not an accurate term, linding blind is landing "backwards" (ass to the boat) and backside is a direction of spin.

www.wakecoupons.com
Old    Christopher Stack (deepstructure)      Join Date: Jun 2002       09-25-2005, 4:55 PM Reply   
i agree with thane and mike. backside is a spinning term. blind is a landing. and yes, i consider landing wrapped on a tsfs 3 a blind landing.

if someone does a tantrum to blind landed wrapped and then does a switch tsfs 3 landed wrapped, the landings would look exactly the same. why would only one be considered blind?
Old    Kevin Bird (kevin_bird)      Join Date: Dec 2002       09-25-2005, 5:25 PM Reply   
i have to disagree on this one i feel that blind is the rotation of the spin for example a backside five is aka a blind five, And if done with one more 180 will be a blind 540. As far as i hjave ever heard if you ever do a frontside spin it can be landed wrapped and you may not be able to see anything, but the spin was not a. blind spin. I agree with bill
Old    Midwestwakeboarder.com (mjmurphy53711)      Join Date: Mar 2004       09-25-2005, 5:44 PM Reply   
wrong. ill say again that you are referring to a backside spin. for example, i can throw blind 180s and i can also throw backside 180s.

www.wakecoupons.com
Old    R M (dr_inc)      Join Date: Mar 2005       09-25-2005, 5:46 PM Reply   
ok we need chris dykmans on this one... hes the king at landing blind/wrapped
Old    doctor octagon (dococ)      Join Date: Mar 2002       09-25-2005, 6:35 PM Reply   
I agree with Kevin. Backside aka "blind" refers to the direction that the spin is initiated, and the landing just depends on how far one rotates, choosing to land wrapped or not. I understand Trace's question, and Thane correctly notes that the landings can be the same whether or not the spin is "blind." Example, I finally got my TSFS3s dialed in the same weekend I learned the switch blind 180, because it is the same landing. But the 180 is called "blind" because you initiate the spin backside, whereas the TSFS3 has you initiating the spin frontside. Another way to think about it is like this, a TSBS3 (toeside "blind" 3) has the same landing as a HSFS5. The ts blind 3 is clearly a blind spin (and one of the hardest ones), but the HSFS5 clearly is not a blind spin, even if the landing is the same. I agree that certain landings can feel pretty blind, but the terminology refers to the direction of initiating the spin, not the landing. If Dykmans disagrees, then I will shut up.
Old    doctor octagon (dococ)      Join Date: Mar 2002       09-25-2005, 6:46 PM Reply   
Well, obviously there is disagreement, and as a rider I agree that this is confusing. Why is one trick named "blind" and another is not, even though the landing is the same. But the idea that backside and "blind" are interchangeable terms and refer to the direction of the initiation of the spin, having nothing to do with the landing, this is how Gregg Necrason's father Conrad explained it to me back in the late 90s when riders were just beginning to focus on blind, or backside, spins. Maybe our usage of the term has evolved such that the meaning is now different, I don't know.
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       09-25-2005, 7:00 PM Reply   
mike, what's the difference between a blind 180 and a backside 180?
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       09-25-2005, 7:38 PM Reply   
so you are saying if I pass the handle in a backside 180 that it is a blind 180? NOPE
I am 100% agreeing with thane, blind is not a rotation, frontside-first part of the spin(180) you look at the boat, backside first part of the spin (180) you look away from the boat... blind is landing with your back to the boat, the handle wrapped


(Message edited by wakebordr11 on September 25, 2005)
Old    Thane Dogg (thane_dogg)      Join Date: Jun 2002       09-25-2005, 7:42 PM Reply   
BLIND IS NOT A DIRECTION!!

You spin frontside or backside. End of story.

Blind is a landing, and a loosely used term in wakeboarding. It needs to be stopped.
Old    Sparky Jay (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       09-25-2005, 8:00 PM Reply   
Agree. And wrapped or not dosen't change a blind landing.
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       09-25-2005, 8:36 PM Reply   
I'm with Thane and others. FS BS is rotational direction and blind is a landing term.

Example:
HS BS 180 is a blind landing
TS BS 180 is not

I tried a wake to wake TS BS180 yesterday and got the rotation and landing fine but binned the handle when my nuts dropped, it feels freaky but cool. Hopefully I will have them soon.
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       09-25-2005, 8:40 PM Reply   

quote:

Example:
HS BS 180 is a blind landing
TS BS 180 is not




neither is landing a ts fs 3 wrapped. it's simply landing wrapped.
Old    Christopher Stack (deepstructure)      Join Date: Jun 2002       09-25-2005, 8:42 PM Reply   
fwiw (from that other site):

Spin Terminology:

Backside: A spin where the rider rotates with the back of their body towards the boat first. Many times mistakenly referred to as blindside spins. Collin Wright was the first rider to start doing major backside spins including backside 540s off the wake and backside 720s.

Baller: This is a term used for when a rider does the handle pass of their spin by passing the handle between their legs. Parks and Shane Bonifay invented it.

Flatline Spin: A spin where the rider goes over the rope instead of passing the handle.

Frontside: A spin where the rider rotates with the front of their body towards the boat first.

Off-Axis: When a rider does a spin but goes off the vertical axis so the board usually gets up to shoulder level or above. Invented by Marshall Harrington. Also referred to as "Monkey" or "Corked" spins. Other notable contributors to off-axis spins are Corey Kraut and Shawn Watson.

Osmosis: When the rider performs a spin by tossing the handle from one hand to the same hand again, bypassing the other hand - Invented by Shaun Murray.

Rewind: A spin where the rider does a shifty one way, then back the other, then spins back in the direction of their initial shifty.

Shifty: Board is shifted 90 degrees in one direction and then shifted back in the opposite direction. Gregg Necrason was the first rider to land a shifty 540.

To Blind: The rider lands with the rope wrapped around their back instead of passing the handle.

Wrapped: When the rider has the rope wrapped around their back when riding they are are going to perform a wrapped trick. It allows a rider to spin without doing a handle pass. It also allows the rider to perform unique grabs that usually cannot be done when passing the handle. A big innovation in wrapped tricks came when Randy Harris invented the double wakeboard handle - the Vandall Handle.
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       09-25-2005, 8:45 PM Reply   
so when murray does a blind judge (he passes the handle), he's not landing blind?
Old    Trace (woundedknee)      Join Date: Apr 2002       09-25-2005, 9:04 PM Reply   
even tho landing blind is not a direction, the spin has to be backside to land blind I thought.

a blind landing does not it make without the backside spin daniel-san.
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       09-26-2005, 2:15 AM Reply   
BOOOM!!!

My head just exploded, please excuse the mess.

Joe, new video, ooh it'll be up Wednesday.
Old    Brad Werner (wakebrad)      Join Date: Aug 2005       09-26-2005, 2:15 PM Reply   
I think the court is still out to lunch on the issue but here's my opinion. I believe it depends on the context what the name means. A "tantrum to blind" would be a tantrum with a bs180 even if the handle is passed in the air. A blind 180 would be a backside 180 or blind 540 a backside 540. IMO there's no use for the term "blind" in a frontside spin even if you land butt forward. Because if it did, that would mean a roll to blind could mean either frontside or backside rotation, but the term roll to blind is reserved for backside spins. If you are referring to a landing such as "landing blind" that would mean landing wrapped such as in a "ts fs360 landing blind." Or riding blind would be riding wrapped. I guess it seems to me that it is a versatile name and has standard usage that doesn't fit in one definition.
Old    Robert Thorson (thor)      Join Date: Oct 2001       09-26-2005, 2:58 PM Reply   
Trace,

If you're referring to the TS3 that you landed the other day where you didn't pass the handle and landed with it in your rear hand behind your back, I say it was a blind landing. A real sketchy blind landing that you were lucky to ride away from without getting worked.

It was pretty cool though.

Rob
Old    Midwestwakeboarder.com (mjmurphy53711)      Join Date: Mar 2004       09-26-2005, 3:39 PM Reply   
joe the difference between my blind 180 and my backside 180 is harder to explain than to see.
on my blind i land wrapped and blind to the boat, i.e looking in the opposite of direction traveled. On a backside I pass the handle in the air and end up looking at the shore as if it were a regular frontside 180.

these days i typically only land blind if i throw a shifty to blind, due to throwing it late.

ill say this again, and maybe im wrong, but backside is a direction of spin whereas blind is the form in which you land.

backside and blind 180's are too different tricks imo.

www.wakecoupons.com
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       09-26-2005, 6:24 PM Reply   
they are not two different tricks, they are the SAME trick, DIFFERENT LANDING
On a different note, Ive never seen anyone do a tantrum to blind and pass the handle before landing... Roll to blind can be done with an early or late (after landing) handle pass, Im only assuming the roll to blind was done first as a roll to a blind landing and then ppl started throwing the pass earlier and a new trick name was not invented and the name stuck for both...
you CAN land a toeside 3 blind in my opinion, as it has been said earlier in this thread, a switch backside 180 landing blind has the same exact landing as a toeside 3 landing wrapped... the last 180 of the toe 3 is the same rotation... so you can land blind...
blind judge I am guessing is just a trickname/figure of speech (don't know the origin) blind pete is what danny named his backside pete...
I will take this arguement one step further and open a whole new pot of stir, there is no such thing as a blind spin in any other board sport... that I am aware of, there is frontside and backside
blind is reserved for landing as has been discussed on a WAKEBOARD therefore no blind spins for the love of integrity
Old    Midwestwakeboarder.com (mjmurphy53711)      Join Date: Mar 2004       09-26-2005, 7:56 PM Reply   
good point, i stand corrected.......

backside and blind 180s are not two different tricks, just the same trick landed two different ways.

Old    Christopher Stack (deepstructure)      Join Date: Jun 2002       09-27-2005, 2:42 PM Reply   

quote:

On a different note, Ive never seen anyone do a tantrum to blind and pass the handle before landing




duane - check out sean obrien in this vid:

http://www.orlandowakeboard.com/wp-gallery2.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=176

Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       09-27-2005, 5:42 PM Reply   
ok.... woow that was sick and twisted looking
Ive never seen him ride, wicked smooth
what tige is that that he rides behind? it looks like a tige was pulling him for atleast some of it

also that whirly rewind was ridiculous too

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