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Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       09-19-2005, 8:39 AM Reply   
http://news.yahoo.com/s/latimests/20050919/ts_latimes/californiasleveesareinsorryshape

So the recent leve failures in the wake of Katrina have got everyone talking about the vulnerability of the Delta to a large earthquake. One of the more "practical" options is to build a waterway that takes water from the Sac River that feeds the Delta and divert it into an aquaduct of sorts. Booo!! I've ridden the Delta once and am a little worried about this. Fruit farmers? I'll go without oranges and almonds for a year.
Old    Dennis (denystaucd)      Join Date: Feb 2003       09-19-2005, 10:24 AM Reply   
http://calwater.ca.gov/programs/conveyance/ftddcctdf/dcctdf.shtml

Hey if your interested here is the CALFED site to the technical team which is reviewing Sac River diversions. Instead of a peripheral canal its now called a through delta facility or they are exploring the re-operation of the delta cross channel. Much of this sites meetings minutes are dense and all relate to the CALFED Record of Decision (ROD), which you can search the site more for the CALFED ROD. Basically this review team is exploring every possible environmental harm (fish population declines, salinity creep into the south delta, etc.) and benefit (more SO Cal water, preventing salinity creep, into delta interior, etc.) which come with massive water diversions..
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       09-19-2005, 11:18 AM Reply   
Nooooo, say it ain't so. Actually the original proposal was in '82 if I'm not mistaken, so it's not a new idea to bypass the Delta. It just never got anywhere because of environmental and budget concerns. Personally I think it would be a tragedy if the Delta dried up. Think what'd happend to the discover bay home prices if they were located on a huge sand pit instead of the river..... sorry, bad joke.

Anyway, we were talking about it a couple weeks ago. I'll be sad if my kids never get to ride the Delta. IMO it is the ultimate spot for wakeboarding.
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       09-19-2005, 11:39 AM Reply   
So, the big concern from a huge earthquake is that:

1) farmland would get flooded.
2) roadways would be blocked.
3) socal access to nocal water would be interrupted.

Seems like a lot of blowing hard to me.

The same huge earthquake would likely cause much worse issues in the cities.

Is the delta area that earthquake prone? Seems to me that the serious faults are in the bay area where 19 million people live.
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       09-19-2005, 11:54 AM Reply   
i'm with dane on this one. if the big one ever hits, the delta would be the least of our worries.
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       09-19-2005, 12:31 PM Reply   
Interesting article . . . I didn't realize the Delta is providing that much water (2 out of 3 Californians according to it) to the rest of the state. I have a feeling those people who use this water down south have little regard for either our recreational use of or the environmental impact of pumping more water out of the Delta system (which in reality is what building the Peripheral Canal is all about.) The canal is not going to protect the Delta from earth quake damage, in reality it's going to further hinder it's ability to recover from flood damage by diverting fresh water away before it get's even close to the system. It's going to protect areas that shouldn't have been built out to begin with.

BTW I have been out on our island in a cabin which is built on telephone poles embedded in that peat during a number of earthquakes during the last 20 years and I have yet to feel any quake movement at all. I wasn't there during the Loma Prieta quake (I wish I was as my house in Aptos is about a mile from the epicenter) but I can tell you none of our structures were affected. I also believe like Joe and Dane that a quake devastating enough to severely damage the Delta will probably destroy the bay area! So pardon me if the least of my worries at that point is the drinking water supply for SoCal.

Let them get their effing water somewhere else!
Old    Shawn Wilson (wakestar8878)      Join Date: Oct 2003       09-19-2005, 4:45 PM Reply   
"Let them get their effing water somewhere else!"

You do realize that Southern and Northern California are in the same state, right?

Rich - With all do respect, what if the situation was reversed, and we had the water and you didn't. I don't think you would be saying stupid crap like that. Remember that little saying: love thy neighbor.
Old    Brendan (kybool)      Join Date: Aug 2004       09-19-2005, 4:54 PM Reply   
yeah, you'd think so, but for the most part there is somewhat of a love hate between norcal and socal peeps. It's kind of what happens when most people from socal take what they get for granted. not all just most.
Old    Dennis (denystaucd)      Join Date: Feb 2003       09-19-2005, 6:49 PM Reply   
This is a record year for pumping water to SoCal...the sacbee has had a bunch of articles on it. The new water diversions would actually put more water in the south delta (Disco bay area)and cleaner (less salinity) water there too. The probelm is more water would be taken out of the north delta, so if you ride north of the San Joaquin on up past Sac it could be bad. As for the levees I heard that the Army Corp of engineers said there are over 250 locations are in need of repair near the Jones tract break of last year, but they only have enough money to fix a handfull of spots.

cheers
dc
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       09-19-2005, 8:59 PM Reply   
Ahh yes, that's why I live in Central Cal. You guys can squabble all you want and I will just sit here and snipe whatever has the best water to offer. Canyon one weekend, the Delta the next or I'll just stay home and ride Naci. Either way the Delta is an amazing system and it's not surprising that it is fragile. It was made from silt deposits that were dredged from the bottom. That stuff is not stable. I hope it doesn't fall apart.
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       09-19-2005, 9:04 PM Reply   
what's funny is, technically, those that live in sacramento, san francisco and their surrounding towns don't even live in norcal. technically, they're central cali, which is also known as the central valley. those that live in redding, yreka and eureka are in norcal.
Old    Squid (twakess)      Join Date: Mar 2002       09-19-2005, 9:21 PM Reply   
yep, Joe is so right. Delta is in the central valley. As for the Delta I never see it drying up.
Old    Scott (scott_a)      Join Date: Dec 2002       09-19-2005, 10:37 PM Reply   
i poo'd in socal's drinking water. TAKE THAT SOCAL! haha

we consider ourselves norcal more than cencal because we wanna think were as far away as possible from those baboons with poo poo in their water!

haha. j/k
Old    Mark Riley (madchild1)      Join Date: Mar 2005       09-19-2005, 11:39 PM Reply   
^^scott, i pee'd in your water at shasta so HA!
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       09-20-2005, 6:47 AM Reply   
"Rich - With all do respect, what if the situation was reversed, and we had the water and you didn't. I don't think you would be saying stupid crap like that. Remember that little saying: love thy neighbor."

Yes if the situation was reversed I was say screw the Delta too, but it's not.

And you're being hypocritical here, If you truly "loved your neighbor" down there you'd pony up for some desalination plants, new reservoirs or whatever and leave our water alone. But since this is the cheapest source of water obviously the powers that be are looking for new excuses to exploit that.

And I'm all for dividing this state in half from say about Pismo straight over. There was a grassroots movement started back in the 80's to split the state but it died when it became clear the majority of the population (in soCal) wouldn't vote for it.

I've heard one of the problems with the 2 existing canals right now is that they're silting in, which is slowly diminishing the volumne of water they can deliver. At least the Delta is trying to take care of itself even if we aren't.
Old    Shawn Wilson (wakestar8878)      Join Date: Oct 2003       09-20-2005, 8:54 AM Reply   
"Yes if the situation was reversed I was say screw the Delta too, but it's not."

Who said screw the Delta? Certainly not me.

"And you're being hypocritical here, if you truly "loved your neighbor" down there you'd pony up for some desalination plants, new reservoirs or whatever and leave our water alone."

I'd pony up? I don't think that is my decision, but thank you for thinking I'm that powerful. And I think they are working on SoCal's water problem, with new reservoirs opening up such as Diamond Valley (now if they'd just let us ride there).

"And I'm all for dividing this state in half from say about Pismo straight over. There was a grassroots movement started back in the 80's to split the state but it died when it became clear the majority of the population (in soCal) wouldn't vote for it."

If it came down to it I wouldn't vote for something so trivial either. I have PRIDE in the fact that I'm a Native Californian, one who has lived all over the state, including Northern, Southern, and the Central Coast.

Rich - I'm not trying to start a fight; sometimes I just think this whole NorCal vs. SoCal thing goes a little to far. I remember walking in to a skate shop as a kid to buy some trucks, and the guy wouldn't order me the trucks I wanted, because only people in NorCal ride those. How freakin' stupid is that? Anyways, have a good day and I'll sit here and thank God itís raining.
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       09-20-2005, 1:00 PM Reply   
I was being rhetorical when I stated "you" should pony up for new water sources. I know you're not responsible per se and I'm glad to hear that there are water projects underway down there because I firmly believe the Delta is not the answer. The dividing up the state comment was a bit tongue in cheek but it was an issue a few years back and if I remember right it was over water.

No fight here!
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       09-20-2005, 1:43 PM Reply   
hahaha...

Sometimes I have to remind myself that this is a wakeboarding forum.
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       09-20-2005, 2:52 PM Reply   
it is????
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       09-20-2005, 5:09 PM Reply   
Sorry I thought I was on Treehugger.com!

But . . . . after seeing what Delta water did to the wedge on my old Malibu after 3 years I'm surprised anyone would want to drink it!
Old    albinorhino (mikerod29)      Join Date: Dec 2002       09-20-2005, 8:25 PM Reply   
My father was a water litigation attorney, if you think this is a new argument you are just plain insane! Joe you say that your a socal guy but we all know your heart lies in the delta!! But in all seriousness something does need to be done to the delta as there are many problems and from my limited knowledge it would be much more affordable to shore up the delta system that build desalinization plants, and the like in SoCal. But we don't have the cash to do either in the state so we are left to argue what to do. It actually wouldn't be a problem if the damn tree huggers wouldn't put up such a fuss to us building a few more dams in the state, but they won't. Look up things about the possible additons to the top of Shasta dam and you'll see what I'm talking about, it was built to be 900 feet tall but is only 600 feet tall, lots of room to expand. AHH it doesn't matter anyways all the tree huggers don't care since they don't shower, jez just don't get me started on the subject of water, I'll go on forever!!!
Old    Machew (mbrown)      Join Date: May 2005       09-25-2005, 2:36 AM Reply   
Delta water feeds most east bay and south bay cities. It travels through a diversion and is pumped into San Luis Reservior, it then travels via 12 ft. mains to Morgan hill where it is distributed to 4 reservoirs Chesbro, Anderson, Calero, Coyote.

So don't poo in the water if you don't know where your's is coming from.

Rich is exactly right. The Delta is silting in and can only hold a fraction of the drinking water it used to. It is a man made system that has not been maintained because of the hysteria created over the Clean Water Act. The facts are that the Delta is full of alien vegetation from Brazil, full of Asian crabs, and full of silt from lack of dredging and other maintenance.
If we dredged our man made Delta like we used to, it would diminish many or these current problems and provide more water storage in case of drought in the future.

Seldomly used dredging is performed only during a small time window in Fall to prevent disturbing the environment and animal species. Dredge castings are placed in holding areas for treatment to prevent pollution. But, current environmental laws restrict this practice and other maintenance that needs to be performed.

The latest word is that a bond measure may be voted on to raise money for some badly needed levee repairs, not construction of a Delta Bypass canal.

The biggest pollution issue in the Delta is the leaking dregs. The Clean water act does everything to prevent healthy maintenance but nothing to clean up those leaking pieces of garbage.

I would encourage all to write your state assembly person and express to them that the Delta needs to be maintained and cleaned of all abandoned vessels not destroyed because an earthquake might destroy it first.
That makes little sense.
Old    Dennis (denystaucd)      Join Date: Feb 2003       09-27-2005, 10:21 AM Reply   
Hey Matt,
just to update you the money does exist right now for a Delta Bypass canal or system. The money came mostly from Prop 13 monies.

I have heard of people suggesting more research into when to dreg to least effect the salmon, the proplem is no state agencies want to pay for any dreging operations and the army corp engr doesn't have the funding too do it themselves.

The "leaking peices of garbage" would be covered by I believe Fish and Game Code 5630 which prevent any toxic spills into the states water-ways. Just again there is a sevre lack of funds to enforce these regulations.

I agree a new bond to protect levees would probably get passed now after all the recent levee problems.

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