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Old    Sean Petersen (outboardin)      Join Date: Apr 2004       04-21-2005, 9:43 PM Reply   
I need to buy some tower speakers.....any suggestions?
Old    Mikeski (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       04-21-2005, 10:13 PM Reply   
I have ten 4" dual cones from Radio Shack zip tied to my tower, they rock! They completely blow away all the commercial systems.
Old    code6            04-22-2005, 12:57 AM Reply   
yeah right! I work at radioshack and this kind of a review is unbelievable!
Old    bigthunder            04-22-2005, 4:46 AM Reply   
I prefer the Kraco 4" with paper cone. Crisp, tight sound.
Old    Adam Curtis (acurtis_ttu)      Join Date: May 2004       04-22-2005, 6:23 AM Reply   
Sean.....try running a search....there is a ton of info out there. this topic has been beat to death....
www.nvs1.net
Old    Scott Stevenson (scottie4421)      Join Date: Oct 2004       04-22-2005, 11:27 AM Reply   
Fusions....awesome sound, awesome look, great price.
Old    Greg Beauchamp (dgoose)      Join Date: Feb 2005       04-22-2005, 12:17 PM Reply   
NVS all the way. hands down the best sounded.
Old    sebastian            04-22-2005, 12:28 PM Reply   
one more vote 4 NVS.
Old    Buzz (buzz_grande)      Join Date: Mar 2004       04-22-2005, 12:45 PM Reply   
OK, I'll chime in.

Skylon Defcon 4 (OK, 5's are nice too), but I love my 4's.

"Best" is really personal opinion. I am VERY happy with the sound "quality", and it is plenty loud for my riders. I am not trying to piss off everyone on the lake. Just make some quality sound for my riders.

Best if you can get out and listen to various ones, and see which ones "you" like.

Kind of like trying to get opinions on the "best" board. Everyone likes something different.

Defcon Reference
NVS
Fusion

All great systems.
Old    Joe (joe_788)      Join Date: Aug 2003       04-22-2005, 1:20 PM Reply   
Comparing the Fusions to the Addiction, Entity or Defcon Reference is an insult to NVS and Skylon.
Old    Scott Stevenson (scottie4421)      Join Date: Oct 2004       04-22-2005, 1:53 PM Reply   
They're all good....no comparison from me as far as sound quality. I've never heard the NVS or the Skylon's but I've heard great things. I prefer the look of the Fusions over the other 2 though....but like Buzz said, it's all personal opinion. Most people (like myself) will tell you the best is whatever they have on their boat.

I bought the Fusions because they were 699 for a set. The sound is awesome...they run Diamond Audio components which are top notch...but for me it was all about the price.

The NVS are 1600 bucks for a pair of the cheapest but I heard they will blow you out of the boat.
Old    Alex Benetatos (calabria_man)      Join Date: Aug 2004       04-22-2005, 2:57 PM Reply   
Lightning Accessories are the best in my opinion. They are the cleanest sounding and they are great looking.
Old    Steve Amestoy (stevev210)      Join Date: Feb 2005       04-22-2005, 6:15 PM Reply   
I run 6 Lighting Accessories which use ARC Audio speakers,one thing no one ever mensions is the amp pushing there speakers which makes a huge impact on the sound and performance of the speaker.I run a ZAPCO 500 to the tower and it sounds great.I guess the moral of the story is,If your gonna spend a ton of money on speakers buy a good amp so you can get your moneys worth out of the speakers.
Old    shane (auto)      Join Date: Aug 2002       04-22-2005, 6:23 PM Reply   
Last bu I had 4 Quart References, the new ride has 2 NVS and they just flat out rock, simple insanity.
Old    Bill Bierbower (monstertower)      Join Date: Mar 2003       04-22-2005, 9:35 PM Reply   
NVS1 is the proven champ at insane pro-audio tower speakers, Skylon is chasing that hard. Fusions that were closed out last year at $699 were an a amazing deal.

There is a major oversupply of tower speaker makers in the market, with new stuff coming all the time. You start at a PVC can & bracket at www.diyTower.com for under $100/set unloaded. I'd say the next level is the product on eBay in the $200 to $300 range, followed by prices for all types of cool product from lots of good companies up to $2K/pair.

What are you looking to spend is really the question, and Setve's comment about the amp is so true. Even with a good amp tuning it is needed to make the speakers really come alive.



This pic has our double bullet on the outside and singles on the inside, sorry there is no model in the pic - coming soon :-)



Here is some new pics of the tantrum version which will be on the site this weekend and the team boat next week.










Old    Jamie LaMar (jamie_lamar)      Join Date: Mar 2004       04-22-2005, 11:14 PM Reply   
Check out this combo from MAKO-INC.com with KICKER speakers!!!
Speaker & Lights

E-mail at jammin29jamie@aol if you would like more info.

(Message edited by jamie lamar on April 22, 2005)
Old    bersh31            04-22-2005, 11:31 PM Reply   
If you have the money the best speakers are the Skylon Deafcon 4's. As a dealer of most brands I've been able to try them all and these are tops. Having subs and mids up there gives the best sound quality and carries the best, no problems hearing them while you ride.
Old    mia            04-22-2005, 11:53 PM Reply   
i have heard both designs and each one has pros and cons (both very limited situations and unfamilair systems)

the defcon v is really, really, really inefficent.. you will need some big high quality amp or amps to push these (250rms to 500 rms of zapco power(wakeside sells tru amps for a reason)..not to mention the brutal 2 ohm load)..
by the time all is said and done you will need another alternator or a major altenator upgrade. but the id horn is very, very smooth.

the nvs are more dynamic, have a nicer enclosure, but the horn isnt as nice as the id...also, they are much more efficent.

btw, horn speakers have "beaming" issues (common to both)..this is evident when you behind the boat and cut in either direction..

i am going to make a strong statement...though horns are very efficent.... i think there are better sounding drivers, better enclosure designs,easier to drive, and bass( i am really surprised no one came up with any of these yet...

imo, tower speakers are still very much a work in progress..there has'nt been enough r&d in the drivers, crossovers, or enclosures ( tubes make for great subs in the right enviornment but are not a efficent design for tower speakers)..
Old    Kevin aka Chino (big_xstar)      Join Date: Nov 2004       04-23-2005, 12:13 AM Reply   
You go with your bad self!!!

BTW--Dam your smart!!!... LOL
Old    mia            04-23-2005, 7:11 AM Reply   
kevin -want to go in the tower speaker business ?
Old    Randy (dudeman)      Join Date: Mar 2005       04-23-2005, 7:12 AM Reply   
Monstertower. Which of the speakers that you're putting out sound the best? The Tantrums or the db675 Polks?
Old    Joe (joe_788)      Join Date: Aug 2003       04-23-2005, 2:35 PM Reply   
"Lightning Accessories are the best in my opinion."

"If you have the money the best speakers are the Skylon Deafcon 4's. As a dealer of most brands I've been able to try them all and these are tops."


This thread just keeps getting better!!
Old    jeff begley (jeffry)      Join Date: Feb 2005       04-23-2005, 3:47 PM Reply   
NVS's baby WOOO WOOO
Old    Bill Bierbower (monstertower)      Join Date: Mar 2003       04-23-2005, 8:36 PM Reply   
I'm going to run the Tantrums on my boat this year except when we are at a Polk event. They are sponsoring our boat and we will run all Polk at the events we are doing together. Both sound really good and it almost comes down to what grill design you like better.

The Polk do a great job and have a sweet grill design but I like the more traditional reference audio grill look personally. The external crossover seems to take the car audio based product up a knotch as well on the Tantrums.
Old    Leo Lasecki (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       04-24-2005, 6:34 AM Reply   
Wow, monster tower is really stepping it up. What more can you ask for- quality, stylish, and affordable.
Old    Tim Parsons (slowake)      Join Date: Mar 2005       04-25-2005, 8:29 AM Reply   
Those new tower speakers look almost identical from the Bullets by warlock. I know that they also use Polk speakers. Is there a difference or are they working together?
Old    Scott Stevenson (scottie4421)      Join Date: Oct 2004       04-25-2005, 9:02 AM Reply   
I'm lovin the new Monsters. I'm running the Polks as interior speakers and they sound very good. Great product....I think you'll do well with those.
Old    Bill Bierbower (monstertower)      Join Date: Mar 2003       04-25-2005, 10:57 AM Reply   
Tim, I'm not familar with Warlock, do they have a website? We developed them independently and the main reason we started with Polk was they were really easy to work with and don't have a lot of crazy distribution rules like some audio companies. Naturally the fact they provide great product at decent prices was key for any one we worked with.

Old    grud8            04-25-2005, 11:58 AM Reply   
clubmyke - when you say alternator upgrade, what size alternator are you talking about? I am looking at the Deafcon Vs with a Zapco Ref 750 and the alternator in my boat is 90amps. Other than that it is the stock MC setup for the interior speakers plus a Pioneer 9600MP HU. Thoughts???
Old    tabiggs            04-25-2005, 2:15 PM Reply   
Of course I am biased but its true...

these are image dynamics, those of you that know ID know what I am saying... extreme clarity, high compression horns and given the power it needs, you dont have to worry about needing volume for reserve...
ID Tower
Old    hyperryd            04-25-2005, 3:03 PM Reply   
I would say the best tower speakers would be ones that are on the same level as the boat system. I have heard a few "Best" tower speakers lately with weak boat systems and it is awful. I don't care how far the sound projects across water if the overall sound is poor. Tower speakers that dominate the sound, just make the boat sound worse. I know the rider wants to rip to the tunes, but the 6 people in the boat should have some decent sound too. I know there are people that don't agree with me, that is what makes it my opinion, not law. You show me a boat with a well rounded system, including good tower speakers and I will show you more happy people, than a stock boat with a concert mounted on the tower.
My rant is done, everybody have fun at the lake and listen responsibly.
Old    Duane (nvsairwarrior)      Join Date: Aug 2003       04-25-2005, 6:05 PM Reply   
Well said John.
Saw you Saturday and was hoping to meet you but it just didn't work out.
Anyway, I do agree with your comments. For most people that may have a difficult time in designing a complete sytem to cover all the bases, a concious choice is usually made towards the type or part of system they want most.
Cost is often a factor as well. If you put 2.5 G's on the tower and no subs or cabin stuff, well, it's not complete for sure and will sound as such.
I would go so far as to say that very few systems currently exist that can do it all.
Your's for example, I would put in the category for one of the better Beach systems I've heard. How it is riding behind it I can't say.
John, for the readers, please list your system for us. For those that haven't heard it, please take my word that it is very good. (I know you've listed it before but I can't remember exactly)
BTW, I thought the Boardwiser was going into retirement?
D out
Old    Kevin McGuirk (ktmwakeboarder)      Join Date: Jun 2004       04-25-2005, 8:59 PM Reply   
NVS
Old    hyperryd            04-25-2005, 9:50 PM Reply   
Duane, Sorry I missed you. I didn't know you were there. Boardweiser is in full effect. The wife had a change of heart and summer is on the way.
I wasn't dogging on large tower systems, just that it is but one part of a complete system. My current tower speakers get sound out to the rider, but in a very narrow pocket. I know you are going to hate me, but I ordered a set of Defcon V's that will be here in a couple of weeks. I looked and listened to both and I feel that while the 808's rock hard, I liked the asthetics (sp) and weight differential of the V's. I think both speakers systems are a huge step forward in sound. I just liked the V's more.
Some people say a Ford will pull more than a GMC, but my GMC does everything I want it to do and it does it in style. That is how I think the big debate over what set up is best is going to play out. A few great speakers set ups with very loyal people who are passionate about their brand.
That being said I don't care for either set up as the primary sound of the boat. I think that they should be the final step of a complete sound system, not the only step.
In my previous post I said that your tower speakers should be on the same level as your boat system and I stand by that statement. I have a system large enough to round out either the NVS or the Defcons. I just don't want everyone to think that a huge tower set up is the cureall for sound on the lake.
Wow, am I long fingered today.
Old    mia            04-25-2005, 10:01 PM Reply   
barefooter4life- i dont know if a single zapco 750 is enough for the v's...maybe the zapco comp series c2k6.0 (450 into 2 ohms) or 2 reference 500's (monoblocks- each one 500 @ 2 ohms)... or the tru amps that wakeside reccomends.

but by the time you start running the above in addition to a sub amp of like quality ( not including interior speakers/amps) you have pretty much hit your 90 amp limit on your alternator..

i am waitng for feddback from other to confirm this or not ( i could be waaaayy off on this, but imo and experience not to many amps can deliver that load to the v's over the period of time..)
Old    Duane (nvsairwarrior)      Join Date: Aug 2003       04-25-2005, 10:33 PM Reply   
John,
No worries, I'm agreeing with you about the balanced system. As far as the Def 5's go no worries either. Each system has their +'s and -'s.
I was hoping to hear Chad's setup (the only Def 5's that I was aware of that was there) at WSSR but didn't see him on the water while we were there and he left Saturday before I could check it out. Getting a listen to one of them was one of my objectives for the weekend.
You didn't list your system! would you mind? I can easily add some more nice comments about it.
D out
Old    hyperryd            04-26-2005, 5:32 AM Reply   
Ok here is the list.
Sony CDX850MP head unit
Sony CDX757 MP3 Cd Changer
Sony Transom Remote and Dome remote
1 Orion 8004 for the boat speakers
1 Orion 8002 for the 15"
1 Orion 8002 for the tower
1 Orion 6002 for the 12's
1 PPI DCX15D4 15" Sub under the driver
2 Orion P12d4 12" subs under the seats venting into the passenger compartment
4 Orion C-63's 6 1/2's in the boat
2 PPI DCX-CTS tweeters on the dash
4 Orion C-63's in a fiberglass tower box.
3 Optima yellow tops for power.
Soon:
1 set of Defcon V's going on the tower

I know Chad didn't have his system where he wanted it at WSSR. He is still changing sub amps and dialing it in.

(Message edited by hyperryd on April 26, 2005)
Old    Chad Miranda (forwaken)      Join Date: Jan 2003       04-26-2005, 5:55 AM Reply   
Duane-
I was there untill Sunday. Didn't go back to the party area, we were riding most of the time. You should have hunted me down, I would have been more than happy to let you listen to the system. I really didn't hear any of the NVS systems there as well which was one of my objectives. How that happened I don't know with as many of them that were out there. You definitely have the market share! Which boat were you in by the way?

Like John said I am still dialing in the sub and amps for it. I want to change to boat speakers as well but they sound fine as they are. The tower however I feel is getting really dialed in. Maybe we could meet soon sometime again. I live here in Turlock and I think you are somewhere near Disco Bay. That's only a little over an hour. Let me know...

John-
How did the 6x9's hold up.....

Clubmyke-
I think I have said it before, but here it goes again.... My PCX2200 seems to be running fine to the 2 ohm load. It's putting 400 rms to each side and it runs a little warm, but not alarmingly hot. I spoke with a guy at DE and he said that the amp will have no problems with the 2 ohm load as long as it is run in stereo and not brideged which at that time it would kill the amp. He told me he has two 2400's running the same ohm load and has so for almost 2 years now with no problems.
Old    hyperryd            04-26-2005, 6:37 AM Reply   
Chad which 6x9's? If you mean the 6 1/2's, they are screaming along as usual. I worked hard to build a bullet proof system. I have only had one blown speaker in a year and a half.
By the way Clubmyke, I run my 12's on my 6002 at 2 ohms without a problem and last year I ran my 8004 at 1.5 ohms per channel for the whole season and never had an issue. I run it at 3 ohms now and it generates the same amount of heat as it did then. Trust me when I say I drive my system hard and for long periods. Most newer amps see a 2ohm stereo load the same as a 4ohm mono load.
Old    Duane (nvsairwarrior)      Join Date: Aug 2003       04-26-2005, 9:37 AM Reply   
John,
Thanks for the listing. Somehow I had the idea you were running JL stuff. Anyway, it sounded great and am curious how your subs are directed, hull, floor, or?
Chad, I was only there for Sat and left before 8. I didn't see your boat at the site when we left so I assumed you had left already.
I was a boat whore starting out on Jarrod's Bu then ending up on Monk's B52 with a couple other's in between.
You guys are making me put a better system together just so I can hang out in the same hood with ya. I hope it will be done in another couple weeks. Design is finished, parts ordered, boxes being built, etc, etc, you know the drill.
I'll take this op to say thanks to CIE for putting the weekend together. I thought it was well done. And of course, looking forward to the next one. Whenever that is, I'll be there.
D out
Old    Chad Miranda (forwaken)      Join Date: Jan 2003       04-26-2005, 10:19 AM Reply   
John-
That tells you what kind of weekend I had, I thought they were 6x9's. That's cool that they lasted. Your boat is beautiful in the water man btw. And to any haters of the "E" boat, unitl you see it on the water or sitting on his trailer, you have no justification in trashing it.

Duane-
We were in sites 118 and 70 if it wasn't there, it was on the water. I am sorry we missed you. Next time.

Chad
Old    Tim Parsons (slowake)      Join Date: Mar 2005       04-27-2005, 8:29 AM Reply   
Monster,

Here is the link for those bullet speakers.

http://www.bulletspeakers.com/speakers.html

Old    mia            04-27-2005, 9:29 AM Reply   
john,

most "quality subs amps" have no problem with 2 ohm loads all day long ( class d does really really well here).

but taking a stero amp(a/b) and presesnting it with a really inefficent load ( aka skylon reference v's) with 2 mono block amps ( zapco 500's ) or a zapco reference 1000 and then running your system for the day ....the tower amps and the sub amp ( i go modest and say a jl 500/1)not including the amps in the cabin for the cabin speakers.. you are talking about a alternator upgrade to 150-200 amps..

i dont think one ppi pcx2200 on the skylon reference v's @ a 2 ohm load would really get the reference v's to sing..it may work but not optimal( i could be wrong here..a blown driver or amp would tell)

btw, the nvs are much more efficent than the skylons in this regard...
Old    doubleup1080            04-27-2005, 2:33 PM Reply   
I've been running my Deafcon V's off the crossfire vr804 amplifier. 250watts per side at 2 ohms and I have had no troubles.
Old    whitechocolate            04-28-2005, 7:37 AM Reply   
The best Tower Speaker's.

Hey you guys ever seen the movie "The Italian Job". They are all taking about what they are gonna do with the money that they just stole from a robbery job. Seth Myers says he wants, and then later buys a Stereo thats as he explains " A system so Powerfull will rip the clothes off a woman". This IMO is the best speaker. LOL
when they come out whith these speakers Im getting a set. "Panty Shredder 9000's"

Old    swpmwinc            04-28-2005, 8:35 AM Reply   
So Bill are you saying that you had never seen a bullet speaker with Polk Audio before. I am just having a hard time with this one you have allways seemed to be a real honest guy with really good designs that looked all there own. Then to come out with a product that looks like a clone is kind of a let down.

(Message edited by swpmwinc on April 28, 2005)
Old    chavezychavez            04-28-2005, 9:12 AM Reply   
Warlock's Bullet
Monster's Bullet
Looking pretty darn similar here....

Called the same too? UGH, No bueno!
Old    chavezychavez            04-28-2005, 9:18 AM Reply   
PS: Grant
Old    Bill Bierbower (monstertower)      Join Date: Mar 2003       04-28-2005, 9:48 AM Reply   
OOPS, in hindsight I dont think we need to be calling them bullets. Pretty much everyone calls their towers "swoop" and it seems to have become a generic term, but I just checked and they do have "bullet speaker" trademarked so we'll stop using that moniker. Sorry if we offended anyone.

I definatly have seen the bullets, just never heard them called Warlock, sorry. Below are some of the drawings and calc's we did developing the new speakers. Looked at lots of different profiles and settled on the bullet design based on input from a group that we run new ideas and designs by. It won the popularity contest in sharing the various profiles we considered. Spent a lot of time on the injection molded parts and quick release as well once the profile was determined so we truly developed our own product.





Pretty much the same at http://www.optionindustries.com.au/default-speakers.htm which is a company downunder.



Also going to have to use a larger can with a different design for our ProAudio product that should be shipping about July.
Old    Scott Stevenson (scottie4421)      Join Date: Oct 2004       04-28-2005, 9:57 AM Reply   
I think Bill is a "real honest guy" and I'd be careful about pointing someone out as dishonest when you don't know the facts.

Lots of manufacturers have gone with a bullet shaped speaker and a similarity shouldn't brand someone as a fraud. Lots of manufacturers also use Polk as well.

I'd like to give props to Bill and Monster Tower for staying in touch with the wakeboarding community and producing quality products at great prices.
Old    chavezychavez            04-28-2005, 10:07 AM Reply   
Bill, just watch out/double check for patent issues here. I'd hate for you guys to do up a ton of these and then get the "Correct Craft" letter if you knowhutimean.
Old    swpmwinc            04-28-2005, 10:20 AM Reply   
Scott-I was not calling Bill a fraud just pointing out my dissapointment with the "new design". Warlocks Audio has been using this design for over 5 years and put alot of work into it.

}
Old    bambamski            04-28-2005, 10:28 AM Reply   
They look really good bill. How does the quick release work for the speakers and wires? That's one of the reasons why I don't have a lot of things on my tower because they're a pain to take off each time. I trailer my boat everywhere and it gets coated in bugs which realy sucks when you're trying to scrape them off everything.

Do your lights have a release as well?

What name can we come up with for Bill? The boob speaker? What are they a C cup?
Old    Randy (dudeman)      Join Date: Mar 2005       04-28-2005, 10:38 AM Reply   
If you call Bill a fraud for using a good design, what do you call all of the manufacturers that put a speaker in a cannister called? There are only so many speaker container shapes that work to produce quality audio.
Old    swpmwinc            04-28-2005, 10:51 AM Reply   
Randy- DID I CALL BILL A FRAUD? All I was pointing out was the so called "NEW DESIGN" was not at all new that is it. Bill has always been inovative this product just is not. That is all I am saying.
Old    Bill Bierbower (monstertower)      Join Date: Mar 2003       04-28-2005, 11:22 AM Reply   
xxxl wake is right about we should not be calling them "bullet speakers" since that is trademarked. I appreciate you letting me know that, and I took no offense.

As far as bullet shaped speakers I dont believe anyone in this market can take any inventive credit there on being the first person to make a bullet shaped speaker enclosure. Then again it's not logical that putting a tow point on a fishing radar arch . . . nevermind.

This speaker dates to way before wakeboarding even existed.


The Fiberglass Fixation / Proflight cans have been bullet shaped for years.


And we've been blingin our riders with bullet shaped toys for longer than any of us have been alive. These seem to go really well with Fuzzy Dice
image/bmp
bullet light.bmp (35.5 k)


Old    Bill Bierbower (monstertower)      Join Date: Mar 2003       04-28-2005, 11:25 AM Reply   
Now the fun part of coming up with a new name, better call an emergancy board meeting for tomorrow afternoon!
Old    Bill Bierbower (monstertower)      Join Date: Mar 2003       04-28-2005, 11:30 AM Reply   
Pat - only the racks, mirror and double "can" speakers have quick release. The lights, light bar and single cans are fixed mount
Old    Bill Bierbower (monstertower)      Join Date: Mar 2003       04-30-2005, 7:54 PM Reply   
Huh, doing some research this weekendd I found that both Titan and ProFlight both currently call theirs product "bullet speakers" as well?

http://titanwake.com/speakers.html

http://www.proflighttowers.com/ See audio link?
Old    MHayes (mhayes)      Join Date: Jul 2004       04-30-2005, 9:13 PM Reply   
Bill,

Just curious if you guys are going to be offering the bullet speakers with black cans? Thanks, and keep up the great work!
Old    Bill Bierbower (monstertower)      Join Date: Mar 2003       04-30-2005, 10:01 PM Reply   
Been thinking about it. It's a capital vs inventory vs sales guessing struggle. Really seasonal business makes life interesting so something as simple as adding another color to a product becomes a bunch harder than it sounds. Your the second person to ask. Were working on it and if the interest is good we will.

I heard a great line this weekend that I relate to so well . . . "I have no problems a few million bucks would not solve"

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