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Old     (msasser)      Join Date: Apr 2005       04-25-2005, 12:18 PM Reply   
ok, so my parents want a safe boat... no propeller. so they want to get the seadoo challenger x instead of other wakeboard boats, does anyone have one, or has ridden behind one and can tell me how they stand against other boats such as malibu or mastercraft? like, is the wake as big, or solid, stuff like that, thanks a lot.
Old     (greenpinky)      Join Date: Apr 2004       04-25-2005, 12:24 PM Reply   
Mike, I see you're new to Wakeworld. Do a search on here and look under 'Sea Doo'. There should be plenty there to answer your question.

In short, and I won't sugarcoat this buddy, any Jet Drive boat will produce a terrible wake. It'll get you up and learning, but you'll want something better very quickly. Any boat with a prop would do a better job.
Old     (882001)      Join Date: Nov 2003       04-25-2005, 12:28 PM Reply   
tell your parents a d/d or v/d is safe because the ptop is way under the boat.}
Old     (msasser)      Join Date: Apr 2005       04-25-2005, 12:39 PM Reply   
ive also heard that d/d and v/d dont handle as well when going slowly as the jet drive, its hard to pull them into a trialer or get them to a boat lift at a dock, is there really that much of a difference?
Old     (sbt3)      Join Date: Jun 2002       04-25-2005, 1:16 PM Reply   
Inboards handle fine once you learn how to drive them. They are a little harder to learn to drive than a I/O or outboard because you can steer with those in reverse. A inboard basically backs up in one direction depending on the rotation of the engine, most back to the drivers side. I have never driven a jet boat so I can't tell you how they handle.
I have been in one of the seadoo's at a demo day for them. One of my friends rode first and after seeing him pull the boat around and how bad the wake was I didn't even bother to ride.
Do whatever you can to convince your parents to buy a inboard. I think it would be pretty hard to hurt yourself with the prop. The only way is to run someone over. I don't think it would be too good if you ran someone over with a jetboat either so that takes away that arguement. Good luck.

(Message edited by sbt3 on April 25, 2005)
Old     (wildcatx2)      Join Date: Mar 2005       04-25-2005, 1:43 PM Reply   
I grew up on an outboard. I have had my mastercraft for three months now and I think in time I will be able to control this boat better than I could my parents outboard. And putting it on the trailor is cake as long as you can get that nose between the guide posts. Anyone that can see over the stearing wheel could do it.
Old     (jeffreyala)      Join Date: Dec 2004       04-25-2005, 1:44 PM Reply   
Even a jet Drive will not steer unless the throttle is applied.
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       04-25-2005, 2:46 PM Reply   
Tell your parents to get on this site and read about the differences. I have never heard of anyone(Although I am sure it has happened) getting hit by the prop in an DD/VD. I can see why they would not want an I/O. Tell your dad he is going to have to better than that for the justification.
Old     (cyclonecj)      Join Date: Jul 2001       04-25-2005, 4:08 PM Reply   
Inboards usually have less freeboard than an IO or jetboat. It is easier for women to drive and trailer them. It is safer for kids because you can't hit the prop jumping off the swim platform. And, they hold their value better than an IO or a jet.

That's what the sales lady told my wife when we were looking at boats. It worked :-) It took my wife a couple of times out, she was then completely comfortable putting it on the trailer, etc.

You'll hate that jet even more when you suck up a walmart bag and have to take it to the shop for a week or two and big bucks.

Incidentally, girl fell off the front of a Malibu last weekend here in Ga, lost her arm. It doesn't happen often, it was a freak accident.
Old    wakeking933            04-25-2005, 6:38 PM Reply   
man don't get a jet drive they are a joke it would be a waste of money plus if you aren't careful they suck up your rope really fast
Old     (buzz_grande)      Join Date: Mar 2004       04-25-2005, 8:14 PM Reply   
Go to any lake where there are wakeboarders (and/or skiers). I know on my lake, there can be up to 100 boats there. I bet 1, or maybe, maybe 2 are jet boats. That should tell you something too!
Old     (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       04-25-2005, 8:27 PM Reply   
Ask your parents how safe they would feel if they had to take their hands off the wheel every time they took their foot off the accelerator of thier car. There is almost noting more unsave then a jetboat that loses it's steering when you let off the throttle. No steering in a panic situation... think about it.

Other then safety, the jet won't hold the speed, won't make a wake, thier hard to keep going straight, and they are not very comfortable or stable in rough water. I would take a beat up 20 year old Mastercraft, Malibu, or Nautique over a brand new squirt boat any day of the week.
Old     (882001)      Join Date: Nov 2003       04-25-2005, 8:39 PM Reply   
yeah!! what he said.
Old     (cbaird)      Join Date: Apr 2005       04-26-2005, 6:08 AM Reply   
This is bit long Ė but it was right up my ally.

I bought one of the first Challenger 2000's in 2000 and did the trailering/boat slip thing, I moved on a lake last year and used the boat quite a bit more. Did alot of cruising around and some wakeboarding. The smoke and noise on these things are terrible and the wake is very shallow and when crossing the wake there is a terrible jet wash which makes it very slippery unless you have lots of fins on your board. I finally could not handle the smoke and noise and bought a new 2005 MC X2 (vdrive). The MC is the best boat I've ever owned, better quality, no smoke, quiet and the wake and absence of jet wash is a fresh relief. The steering on the x2 is quite difficult when trying to go in reverse - it takes ALOT of getting used to and is the most difficult boat to steer that I've ever had unless your going forward. The other drawback to the X2 is that you have to watch the water depth, whereas in the seadoo you don't as much because all you will do is touch bottom. As long as there isn't little rocks or other stuff to get caught up you'll be okay (itíll chew up about anything it can). Both are as safe, you'll never touch the prop in the x2 (too far under).

All in all the seadoo was a good boat. I would never buy one again (jet boat) though. Here are the pros and cons.

Sea-doo PROS:
> light and easy to trailer
> easy to steer and backup
> don't need to watch water depth

Sea-Doo CONS:
> 2 stroke - smoke, very bad on gas, sucks it like crazy. You can go through a 40 galons in a day especially if your towing and WOT alot.
> Small wake.
> Poor quality on sea-doo stuff - hull, guages, glovebox (merc engine and jet are high quality though).
> Won't hold speed when pulling, full time job controlling throttle.

Mastercraft X-2 CONS
> Hard to steer in tight quarters

Mastercraft X-2 PROS
> Good wake and no jet wash
> No smoke
> Alot better on gas
> There is quality in everything
> The Dealership is awesome and they are very knowledgeable and help you out and don't try to screw you over like the seadoo dealers do.
> You are not covered in 2stroke exhaust when tubing or wakeboarding. Also, you donít send a cloud of smoke over your neighbors. Literally it was a cloud (240 EFI).
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       04-26-2005, 8:05 AM Reply   
Have you had the X2 very long? I could not disagree more about the steering(except in reverse, but you get use to it). I can manuver mine in tight spots better than our old I/O. It is all about using the throttle.
Old     (cbaird)      Join Date: Apr 2005       04-26-2005, 8:36 AM Reply   
I've had it for 7.5 hours. This is my first v-drive, I have driven friends but not in tight quarters. I would say I'm beginner level with ddrive. Whenever I try to go in reverse it pulls the boat to the right (I guess they call that torque steering). What compounds the issue is if the wind is blowing my boat to the right as well. I see it helps a little with going in reverse and then puting it in neutral. Still in some cases I can't get enough momentum. I'm sure by the end of the season I'll figure it out, but boy it is frustrating and what makes it worse is that my boat lift is parallel to shore and when I drive in/out, the shore is to the right. So you can imaging if screw up your approach your hosed and if you go in reverse the boat is a like a magnet and wants to drive right into shore.

At least with an IO and in reverse you turn the propeller and the backend will draw you in a certain direction.

Any tips would be greatly appreciated?
Old     (cbaird)      Join Date: Apr 2005       04-26-2005, 8:59 AM Reply   
I should clarify, in forward it is easier to steer than the jet by far, and about the same if not easier than io. It is reverse that kills me.
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       04-26-2005, 9:36 AM Reply   
Well, reverse is an issue, and with your shore conflicts you do have a problem. I would try to figure out how to not use reverse as much as possible, or try a different ramp. Just remember, SLOW.
Old     (whitlock87)      Join Date: Feb 2005       04-26-2005, 9:49 AM Reply   
come up to the dock at 45 degree angle ( slow ) when you get a few feet from the dock BUMP the reverse. this will swing the back of the boat into position.

Play with this out in the open water, you will see that after a few tries its not hard,

We got our first v drive last June. Both me and my wife would only dock the boat if no other boats where there. Now I donít have any problem sliding between two boats, it just takes practice.
Old     (msasser)      Join Date: Apr 2005       04-26-2005, 9:53 AM Reply   
thanks for all the info, i have a seadoo utopia 205 and thats what i wakeboarded behind all summer, its the only boat i had been behind so i dont know what other boats are like. it sounds like seadoos are crap for wakeboarding, but my budget only allows no more than 25,000, thats kindof pushing it, really more like 20k. ive found some stuff on boat trader online. but they are all like 10 years old in that price range. is a boat thats 10 years old as good as one thats new? does it deteriorate fast? or do they last?
Old     (cbaird)      Join Date: Apr 2005       04-26-2005, 10:22 AM Reply   
Don't get me wrong, me and my wife loved the sea-doo and put alot of hours on it. The problem I had is that I wanted to get serious about wakeboarding and I hated the smoke and noise of the 2 stroke (my little kids would get alot of exhaust when tubing). Also, I worked on the boat alot, I had the problem were the jet pump sucked in two of the tines from the grate and I had to totally tear it apart and rework the stator, impeller, and wear ring. It was like $2,500 to have it done professionally. Also, I destroyed a couple of ski ropes from being sucked up and had at least a couple large rocks being stuck in the stator which required some dissasembly to remove.

I talked with the seadoo dealer here in MI which is one of the biggest in the country and they want almost $30K for a 04 Challenger X. That's crazy when you can buy a couple year old malibu or a new one for a bit more.

If you have 25K, you can get a 2-3 year old malibu or a 5+ year old mastercraft. Give the seadoo like a year or two before stuff starts breaking and the boat will be in worse shape than the 5+ year old MC or BU boat and you will kick yourself in the butt for not buying a real boat.
Old     (kybool)      Join Date: Aug 2004       04-26-2005, 11:20 AM Reply   
You can get an awesome wakeboard boat for $20-25k. Look for older ss Nautiques and the MC 205, malibus, etc. As long as the hours are low the year built doesn't matter all that much
Old     (ttuclint)      Join Date: Sep 2003       04-26-2005, 1:26 PM Reply   
for that kind of money I would look for a 98 or 99 malibu VLX.
Old     (hamkj)      Join Date: Apr 2002       04-26-2005, 1:29 PM Reply   
Bombardier SeaDoo brand can be tempermental and costly to repair. I had a Seadoo and I made sure I had a good set of tools. Never any day did I not have to pull out the tools. As for safe? Boats are only as safe as the operator, passengers, and riders. Prop or not!!! If you want safe, by a dinghi with plastic paddles. If you want performance, buy a tournament boat. If money is no object, buy whatever you want. As for myself, my money is important to me, and what ever I buy must perform to its intended purpose... or I view it as a wast of money, whether it be one penny or thousands of dollars. Just my thoughts. Good luck!

PS... Bombardier has had corporate struggles, which you hope will pull its way into financial recovery. When buying a long term asset, look at how long a company is going to be around for!
Old     (msasser)      Join Date: Apr 2005       04-26-2005, 2:09 PM Reply   
How low is low hours? ive seen them from 300 to 1000, and really, how does someone tell how many hours their boat has? on my seadoo it doesnt have a gauge, do they just guess? or keep track?
Old     (sbt3)      Join Date: Jun 2002       04-26-2005, 6:49 PM Reply   
I wouldn't worry too much about the hours of the boat if it was maintained properly. I just sold my 1988 mastercraft. I bought it with 400 and put 450 on it in the last 2 1/2 seasons. The boat ran great when I sold it. I found a 97 SuperSport this winter with 125 hours for 22K. After everything is in it I will have probably around 26-27. You obviously don't have to stick that much in it but now the boat will be done the way I want it with ballast and tower. This boat should last me for many years to come. I would definitely look for a used inboard and maybe a V-drive in that price range rather than a new seadoo.
Old     (cbaird)      Join Date: Apr 2005       04-27-2005, 6:24 AM Reply   
The hours for the seadoo boats is kept electronically and the dealer can tell you how many are on it. The new seadoo jetskis at least finally tell you how many hours are on it (at least this is with my 04' RXP and 4TEC Limited). As for a new seadoo boat your looking at $30K which is insane and I'm surprised they can sell at this price point. They want almost $40K w/tax for the islanda and they continue to sell them.
Old     (apmullaly)      Join Date: Jul 2004       04-27-2005, 11:49 AM Reply   
I bought a 2000 Mastercraft PS205 for 21k last year. It only had 105 hours on it when i bought it. Of course I had to drive 2780 miles round trip to pick it up in Oklahoma and bring it back.

But it was worth it, saved me 7-8 grand, and i think the boat turned out pretty damn good after i put on a 13th floor tower.

So long post, short: you can find good ski/wakeboard boats out there in your price range just keep looking, keep an open mind and make sure you find what you want.

As for safety, i have 3 kids 6 and under and have no worries about them ever hitting the prop. First, the prop is way under the boat, and second i kill the engine whenever anyone is close to the swim deck. (As for the steering in reverse, it does take some getting used to, but its not that hard once you get the hang of it.)

(Message edited by apmullaly on April 27, 2005)
Old     (kybool)      Join Date: Aug 2004       04-27-2005, 12:32 PM Reply   
I think what everyone is telling you is to convince your parents that the seadoo is a bad choice
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       04-27-2005, 1:18 PM Reply   
Andrew, nice boat. That is the exact boat I use to have(minus the tower). I loved that boat. IT was a great all around.
Old     (erik_c)      Join Date: Jan 2005       04-27-2005, 4:57 PM Reply   
If you're going to get a jet boat get a hot boat, at least then it would be fast a sea doo is worthless.


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