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Old    sid7 (sid7)      Join Date: Mar 2003       03-23-2005, 1:14 PM Reply   
I am looking for opinions on boards that have a combination of pillow soft landings and good/consistant pop. I have heard good things about the Hyperlite State and the LF Fish. Anyone have any other boards that have this combo? I am limited to what I can actually demo so any info would be good. Thanks guys!
Old    michale detillion (michale)      Join Date: May 2004       03-23-2005, 1:19 PM Reply   
I have demoed a few boards.The softest landing that i found was the state.The best pop i found was the parks.
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       03-23-2005, 1:42 PM Reply   
The Fish lands really hard as it is so wide.

The CWB Absolute has the most consistent pop & incredible landings. The CWB Transcend has HUGE pop and also incredibly soft landings. The CWB's use a long center spine to displace the water from side to side, it makes a huge difference. Check 'em out!!
Old    toolfan (toolfan)      Join Date: Jul 2003       03-23-2005, 1:51 PM Reply   
Anything with continuous rocker will be consistant.
LF Team or Trip
HL Murray, Temet, Belmont or TFD
Old CWB Absolute (2002)
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       03-23-2005, 1:52 PM Reply   
Hiltscherhitlerberger has got it right. The Absolute and Transcend are very consistent and soft landing for big-rocker boards.
Old    sid7 (sid7)      Join Date: Mar 2003       03-23-2005, 1:57 PM Reply   
Cool, keep'em coming guys. Good info, I am riding a 136 belmont right now but HL boards seem so heavy for some reason. Plus I am going to go up to a 138-140.
Old    Squid (twakess)      Join Date: Mar 2002       03-23-2005, 1:59 PM Reply   
I agree with Hiltscherhitlerberger the fish lands a little hard and sometimes bucks and stops when you land. If you can try the new DU Lidberg 139 it has a nice straight up pop and a very soft landing.
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       03-23-2005, 3:45 PM Reply   
consistency is in the rider, not the board.
Old    sid7 (sid7)      Join Date: Mar 2003       03-23-2005, 3:49 PM Reply   
Thanks for your input, Joe, but as you know there are quite a few boards on the market that have an inconsistant buck at the wake. I am sure you know what I am talking about...
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       03-23-2005, 3:51 PM Reply   
yes, i know exactly what you're talking about. but, if proper fundamentals are applied each time, the buck will be consistent.
Old    sid7 (sid7)      Join Date: Mar 2003       03-23-2005, 3:57 PM Reply   
Cool then, guess we can all have "proper fundamentals" all the time. Anyway thanks to all of you that replied to my question I asked.
Keep it coming!
Old    David Williams (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       03-23-2005, 4:01 PM Reply   
It's true that the board itself cannot be "inconsistent." It's a fixed object. Obviously, the board isn't changing it's shape or edge as the rider approaches the wake. Now that would be an inconsistent board!

However, there are certain boards that are more forgiving for riders that are less consistent in their riding. These are generally going to be boards with a rocker that is more towards the continuous end of the spectrum. A severe three-stage rocker will usually require that the rider be more consistent for maximum performance.

I've found that I usually don't get enough time on the water to ride a three-stage rocker board. Since I don't get out much, my riding tends to be less consistent. If I ride a three-stage board, I usually spend the whole session just trying to get "consistent" again. If I ride a continuous board, it allows me to hit the wake a little differently each time without jacking up my riding as much.

Obviously, there are a lot of different rocker patterns available, including many continuous/three-stage hybrids, so the above is a bit of a generalization, but I really think that how much time you get on the water is an important factor when it comes to choosing a rocker pattern.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       03-23-2005, 4:02 PM Reply   
some boards are less forgiving if your technique is inconsistent at the pop.
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       03-23-2005, 4:10 PM Reply   
i know what you're talkin' about sid. i'm not trying to knock you at all. i hope you didn't take it that way. it's just that people can suggest this or that board as being consistent, but what i'm saying is that it won't be if you're fundamentals aren't sound. it was suggested above that the absolute has a consistent pop. well, sure, i agree with that if the rider has consistent basic skills. if not, that board will seem inconsistent.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       03-23-2005, 4:22 PM Reply   
Okay...Dave's post wasn't up yet when I posted mine!!
Old    Squid (twakess)      Join Date: Mar 2002       03-23-2005, 4:22 PM Reply   
I also think that each trick requires a different edge. Some want a harder edge and some want a flattened out edge. Or some want the flip trip edge. With a continuous rocker it lets you cut threw the wake and it wont kick you back and off balance. With a 3 stage you get a straight up pop and it seems to kick some people off and back. I would say demo because we all ride different and something that will work for you might not work for others. I know cause I admit I have messed up fundamentals but can still ride. I gave up trying to fix them and just went on riding. I think if you get the basics down you will adapt and end up having your own style.
Old    sid7 (sid7)      Join Date: Mar 2003       03-23-2005, 5:00 PM Reply   
The Transcend is the culmination of time and dedication from the group. The CWB team riders, the R & D engineers and myself (Andrew Adkison). What has transcended from our efforts is a board that performs phenomenally. The best part of the Transcend's ride is that it pops from the center of your gravity, which allows for an amazingly controllable release off the wake. There is always talk of good pop but the Transcend allows for a consistent, controllable center of gravity release.

Spinning: One noticeable feature of the Transcend's pop from your center of gravity is on spins. I've noticed even simple 3's feel more fluid because the Transcend releases from my center of gravity. There is less adjusting to the right axis before I initiate a spin. It provides a consistent, predictable pop.
Speed: The speed of a board is very important. If a board is too fast or too slow you lose a level of comfort on the approach. With the Transcend, I've found a comfortable speed that allows me to be in control of my board throughout my approach and release.
Edging: Edging on a wakeboard is control. Riding the Transcend, I can put my board on edge as much as I need to and still release at the right time into a consistent, controllable center of gravity pop. I want a board that holds it's edge/control into the wake and releases from the top of the wake at the right time. With the Transcend, I have found that.
Fins: One of the factors in the control you have on edge and still being able to maintain the release are the fins. The fins are mounted to a step down mount that extends below the rocker line. Because of where the fin is mounted, below the rocker line, we were able to put the right length of fin to give traction when needed without sacrificing the control of the release.
The predictability of the pop from your center of gravity, the speed, the fins and edging all lead to a noticeable smooth landing. The control, the pop, the soft landings are the fun of wakeboarding.
Old    sid7 (sid7)      Join Date: Mar 2003       03-23-2005, 5:02 PM Reply   
Above is what I was talking about when I say "Consistent"...

Would still like to hear about opinions on different boards. The boards I can demo are few and far between.}
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       03-23-2005, 5:07 PM Reply   
keep in mind, that's coming from a pro. anytime a pro says a board's consistent, then it probably is consistent for him/her. remember that the pros can get on a 2 by 4 and get consistent pop from it. (not literally) but, if you take into account the inconsistency of the everyday-rider, the board will seem inconsistent.
Old     (piranha)      Join Date: Aug 2004       03-23-2005, 5:27 PM Reply   
I agree with Joe. What makes wake release inconsistent is the rider. However, there are boards that release off the wake differently, due to rocker, shape, etc.

For example, if the riders fundamentals were a fixed constant, a Parks board will have a different wake release than a Transcend, but both boards will consistently have the same wake release each time.

Old    sid7 (sid7)      Join Date: Mar 2003       03-23-2005, 5:30 PM Reply   
ok well then a board that doesnt just buck you off the wake. ( I have heard from some friends that a parks and a byerly will have a bucking effect)
Old    sid7 (sid7)      Join Date: Mar 2003       03-23-2005, 5:31 PM Reply   
I just want opinions on a smooth but good pop off the wake with soft landings...
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       03-23-2005, 5:34 PM Reply   
Again, it all comes down to some boards being more forgiving. I thinks that's the bottom line here.
Old     (piranha)      Join Date: Aug 2004       03-23-2005, 5:37 PM Reply   
If you want a smooth release off the wake get a board with a continuous rocker.
Old    vcamper            03-23-2005, 5:45 PM Reply   
Try out a LF Substance, smooth ride with great pop and forgiving landings.
Old    Christopher Stack (deepstructure)      Join Date: Jun 2002       03-23-2005, 8:32 PM Reply   
i would have to disagree with the idea that all boards are equally consistent given a fundamentally sound rider. what's not being taking into account is the fact that there are *two* objects in this equation; the board (which contrary to what dave said is not consistent), and the wake.

boards flex and literally change shape depending on the position of the rider, the amount of edging, the height of the wake, etc.

and the wake itself is changing constantly simply by virtue of the fact that it's liquid and fluid.

so it's very possible that there are boards out there that by either design or luck are able to provide a smoother response curve over varying conditions.

now as to which boards these are...? i have no idea.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       03-23-2005, 9:53 PM Reply   
good point
Old    Blabelmooch (blabel)      Join Date: Jul 2001       03-23-2005, 10:27 PM Reply   
Geez, what ever happened to demoing boards and picking the one that feels the best?
Old    derek boyer (toyotafreak)      Join Date: Sep 2003       03-23-2005, 11:32 PM Reply   
Got no fundamentals, that's a sure thing, but a board with as much pop as the Parks friggin AMPLIFIES our inconsistencies in a big way. Whether or not the board itself is inconsistent is just an arguing point (semantics). What matters is which board gives US a more consistent pop. Seems even pros would get more consistency out of a continuous (or at least gentle) rocker board - fortunately there's more to riding at that level than being consistent.

What Sid's asking can only be answered by himself. Sid, if you had a real 'pop' rating/ranking scale you could trust, where all boards were listed in pop-alogical order, you'd just have to decide which board fits exactly where you'd like to be right now. Maybe a better question becomes, "which magazine or website BEST ranks board pop?" They all try (even Dave here at WW), but who actually gets them measured in a way you can understand? Then you just demo a couple to home in on what you want.

Now I'll shut the hole and go back to dreaming about an Absolute.
Old    David Williams (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       03-24-2005, 6:59 AM Reply   
I wouldn't say that's contrary to what I said. I'd say that's exactly what I said. Again, the board is not randomly changing shape or flex pattern or edge or anything. The board is completely consistent no matter how good of a rider you are. I've yet to see any evidence of a board that randomly changes its physical characteristics while out on the water.

There are actually more than just two factors in the equation. There is an infinite number. Besides the the wake and position of the rider, there's the weather, the boat speed, the physical condition of the rider, the amount of weight in the boat, the line length, salt or fresh water, etc. However, every one of these is a separate issue. Obviously, a board is going to react differently depending on the other variables in the equation. However, it will always react consistently given the same set of external variables.

So, you're right. There are boards out there that are able to provide a smoother response curve over varying conditions. As I mentioned, these would tend to be continuous rocker boards. These are the more forgiving boards that will seem more "consistent" to a rider with constantly changing variables.

The only possible argument I could fathom concerning a board being inconsistent is the fact that the core might "wear out" after a lot of use by a hardcore rider and this would change the flex pattern and behavior of the board over time. However, this is a negligible factor for most riders.
Old    Thane Dogg (thane_dogg)      Join Date: Jun 2002       03-24-2005, 12:39 PM Reply   
stack sighting.


I agree with Brett, demo a substance. Big predictable pop.
Old    stormrider            03-24-2005, 7:33 PM Reply   
If you want a soft landing, land going down the other wake. I'd submit that no matter what board you ride, if you get high and land in the flats you are going to feel it.

Here's my twist, if you want a soft landing, buy a boat with a steep wake, learn to edge into that wake, and then adjust your rope length so you get the air you need but still land super smooth down the other wake.

Save the bombing into the flats stuff for the occasional "big" set or comps.

Your body will thank you and you will greatly increase your chances of staying in this sport and off the operating table IMHO.
Old     (piranha)      Join Date: Aug 2004       03-25-2005, 3:22 PM Reply   
Stack, You're wrong.

The truth is, as William's has mentioned, A board will always react consistently given the same set of external variables, except in the case of deteriorated integrity of it's construction.
Old    Chuck J (wake_eater)      Join Date: May 2003       03-26-2005, 7:15 AM Reply   
another suggestion would be to try a board that is a blend of a 3 stage & continuous rocker. i have a belmont, a balance, & a parks. i look like an idiot riding the parks because i'm not consistent enough, so i normally ride the balance. it has more pop than the belmont. plus the belmont is the "boat" board.
Old    Chuck J (wake_eater)      Join Date: May 2003       03-26-2005, 7:17 AM Reply   
oh, the balance is an example of a board with a blend of the 2 rocker styles.
Old    pond_scum            03-26-2005, 12:45 PM Reply   
Dont listen to J-rod,he cant ride
Old    Christopher Stack (deepstructure)      Join Date: Jun 2002       03-26-2005, 1:07 PM Reply   
piranha, you and dave are correct, it wasn't my intention to imply that the board itself was inconsistent, meaning that it might react differently at another time to the exact same stimulus. i was responding to dave's statement where he said, "Obviously, the board isn't changing it's shape or edge as the rider approaches the wake." i immediately thought, well actually it is changing shape as the water pressures, line loading, etc. increase as one cuts towards and eventually through and off the wake. however, dave is obviously correct that unless the board is structurally damaged, it should respond to the same stimulus consistenly.

however, i was more pointing out that no one, no matter how good they are, ever hits the same wake twice or the same way twice. every approach and release from a wake is unique. fluid dynamics and chaos theory dominate the environment of wakeboarding whether we like it or not.
Old    crazy_cooter            03-26-2005, 1:44 PM Reply   
i like the new era by hyperlite. i demoed it last week and it was really fun and consistant.
Old    Danny T. (partydock17)      Join Date: Apr 2004       03-26-2005, 2:06 PM Reply   
Try to get on a Gator Boards Caddy. It has a real deep-v type design. When it lands, the design of the bottom of the board makes it have a pillow like landing. With the deeper rail set-up that runs close to the edges, it makes the board feel real stable which helps keep you going after the landing. You can also preview a movie clip of this board on their home page. Since it is has such a bent rocker, it allows the board to shoot straight up the wake, and less out towards the flats. Your softest landing will be, when you land on the wake, not out in the flats. The graphics are cool, too.

http://www.gatorboards.com/boards.asp
Old    Bill Montanye (bill)      Join Date: Feb 2001       03-26-2005, 3:04 PM Reply   
personally i also like the absolute platinum ,i have the 141 and its got nice smooth pop and softer landings then most boards..like has been said no board will feel soft when you hit hard in the flats but the absolute is the best ive felt so far..
Old    Da MOOSE (da_moose)      Join Date: Feb 2004       03-28-2005, 2:18 PM Reply   
you must be looking for a Moose...
because Da Fattest Air+ Da Softest Landing = Da Sickist Tricks
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       03-28-2005, 2:36 PM Reply   
I still say... pick the board with the best graphics and ride it. It's worked well for me.
Old    pappasurf            03-28-2005, 3:28 PM Reply   
I've ridden the LF Substance and the CWB Absolute as my main boards, and both have nice pop and soft landings. I now ride the 05 Absolute only and I love it.

I'd say that the consitancy is in the rider, but if you know the way you ride you can also adjust your equipment to increase your consistancy. For example I ride finless. I started doing this to force myself to edge properly which has worked(at least on my heelside, still perfecting the toeside). It also gives me the benefit of being able to ride away from some squirly landings.

I also agree with everyone that says it is about personal prefference and you need to demo. I understand that you don't have a lot of opportunity to demo, but you can narrow it down to 2-3 boards. Then take them for a ride and see what fits your style best. Good luck, there are ton of good boards out there. I hope you find the one that fits you best.

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