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Old    www.midwestwakeboarder.com (gmarkham1)      Join Date: Sep 2003       03-22-2005, 2:01 PM Reply   
I am starting to consider putting together a ballast system for my Bayliner 1850. I have searched the threads and looked at all the information out there. I still have a few questions and would like input.
And yes I have looked at upgrading to an inboard. Just looking to make life a little better until that is feasible(no I do not want a nautique 2001).



So here are my thoughts. I am going to have 3 simer pumps... not sure of mounting location yet, boat is still shrinkwrapped. I know they are not ignition protected and have taken that into consideration. I plan on putting a thruhull mushroom fitting opposite my perfect pass. I can fill and drain from this same hole. It looks like a 1-1/4 fitting seems to be the best solution. I am going to run a 250lb sacs on either side of the engine both with their own pump so I can adjust left and right. Then I already have a big bump that I usually put in the walkway, and have obtained a 200lb slim sac that I am considering putting in the ski locker. I think the big bump is to big for the ski locker and worry that if it gets to full it will break the floor or the stringers. Is this a worthy paranoia? I do plan on venting all the sacs using tube and some kind of check valve to let the water and air escape but not come back in. Can I just tee in the bilge drain and add another check valve to that line?
also with the two front sacs one being larger then the other I guess I need some type of restrictor on the smaller sac so it doesnt fill as fast, I assume this is necassary since it will be vented, or should I just scrap the 4th sac and stick to the 3 which would be about 1100 lbs total.

Old    robertt            03-22-2005, 2:23 PM Reply   
Wait...can you put a perfect pass system on an I/O????
Old    Mikeski (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       03-22-2005, 2:31 PM Reply   
Robert, the Perfect Pass I/O offerring is new this year but in reality all a perfect pass requires to operate is a tach signal, paddle wheel signal, and a throttle connection. They can even operate on outboards.

Gordon, When we board behind my buddies Regal we put a 500lb as far forward as possible and just trim the motor as much as possible before it starts to cavitate to push the back down. I think you will need more weight up front. If there no room for a bigger locker sack you might consider 300-400lbs of lead under the bow cushions (it will help to reduce bow rise too).
Old    flipout            03-22-2005, 2:34 PM Reply   
got my ballast system from wakezilla.com. All the work is done for you. Cheap
Old    www.midwestwakeboarder.com (gmarkham1)      Join Date: Sep 2003       03-22-2005, 2:43 PM Reply   
ok i know how I want the weight placed. I used the 750 lb sac last year in the walkway. Also we had a 600 lb sac behind that. Placement isnt an issue as much as the pump placement or the set up.

Yes I had perfect pass installed last year!
Old    www.midwestwakeboarder.com (gmarkham1)      Join Date: Sep 2003       03-22-2005, 2:49 PM Reply   
I think I can put this together cheaper then wakezilla, including the sacs...
3 pumps $150.00
hoses, fittings and wiring $100
sacs $150 ( i found great deals)

The pride of knowing that I sunk my own boat... pricelesss!

also I want it to be adjustable on the go so I can adjust the weight if one side of the boat is heavier then the other due to people!
Old    TK (swab791)      Join Date: Mar 2005       03-22-2005, 3:10 PM Reply   
Don't Forget the collasable tower, mini ski pylon, 4 blade stainless prop, Doel fin Hydrofoil, Perfect Pass, C'mon man you are wasting money, Break down and buy a TRUE inboard. quit messin around. You will not regret it I promise you that. You are throwing good money after bad with NO return in investment.
Old    www.midwestwakeboarder.com (gmarkham1)      Join Date: Sep 2003       03-22-2005, 3:33 PM Reply   
TJ... exactly the advice I was looking for. Thanks for wasting my time and yours. The boat works for me and mine!

The boat is still worth more then I paid for it.
Old    Bob (bob)      Join Date: Feb 2001       03-23-2005, 5:40 AM Reply   
TJ obviuosly has never riden behind a correctly set-up wakeboard I/O boat. Robert, i installed PP on my I/O 4 years ago (2001) so it has been available for I/O's for a long time. TJ, no hydrofoil needed as it acts completely opossite of what a wakeboard boat wants, lifting the rear of the boat out of the water instead of letting it sink.
Old    DJ (greenthumb)      Join Date: Mar 2004       03-23-2005, 7:05 AM Reply   
My question is what kind of engine do you have trying to run with that kind of weight? I found that our old 20ft Byliner with a 4.3 would have never had enough power to pull a boarder with ballast without bouncing quite a bit. I know I am not contributing to your question, I am being curious.....because we could never find the correct combo for our old I/O.
Old    www.midwestwakeboarder.com (gmarkham1)      Join Date: Sep 2003       03-23-2005, 7:58 AM Reply   
I have the 4.3, but my boat is only a 18 feet. Also I run a 4blade 18pitch prop instead of the standard 3 blade 23 pitch.
Old    Mikeski (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       03-23-2005, 9:04 AM Reply   
Gordon,

I had a two Simer system in my last boat. One was T'd into the raw water cooling line and the other replaced the 3/4 bottom drain plug. If you use a scoop you might consider opening up the back of the scoop if you want to drain through it, you don't need the scoop since the displacement pumps pull water in the same manner as the raw water cooling pump. I filled and drained the pumps through the same hole, they are positive displacement pumps so they suck the water out of the sacks and push it up, down or wherever you want. You don't need any check valves this way but it eliminates the visual indication that the sacks are empty (can's see water spraying out of the side of the boat). You can tell that the sacks are empty because the pumps change pitch when the sacks are empty. Be careful with the sack in the locker, the pump is capable is pumping enough pressure to split the hull if you over fill it, I would consider a small vent on this sack. My Simers only drew about 8 amps when pumping but they spiked up to about 20 amps for a second at startup. I was able to use the stock accessory circuit breakers for the pumps. I used some nice Carlon latching DPDT switches with lights. Both of the indicator lights came on whenever the pumps were filling or draining, I was going to install some diodes so only the top light would come on when filling and bottom when draining but I never got around to it.

To do it all over again I would not use Simer's, they are noisy, slow, fairly expensive, and can produce dangerous pressures. The aerator pumps are simply more effective for ballast systems. This is why almost all new boat manufacturers now use them instead of water puppy's or Simers. The plumbing is a little more complicated, priming can be an issue, but when you get the kinks ironed out they are much more pleasant to operate. The growl of the Simers became very annoying after a single summer's use. I have a small diagram that should allow the aerators to operate without any valves, just a few properly placed vents. At least one aerator per bag is required for draining it's possible to combine fill pumps. But considering you are going to have close to $300 in the three Simer pumps you could easily afford, the eight Tsunami 1200's at about $35 each that could do a nice system in your boat.

Sources:
Simers - BE Atlas
Tsunami - Marine General
Hose - Tanks & More (E-bay) or just use flexible plastic electrical conduit
Valves - the automatic RV waste gate valves work well to use as system shutoff valves so the scoop doesn't keep filling the bage
Check valves - sprinkler check valves seem to work fine
Old    www.midwestwakeboarder.com (gmarkham1)      Join Date: Sep 2003       03-23-2005, 11:35 AM Reply   
Thanks mikeski! That is good info! I can get the simers for 52$ each at my local Blain's Farm and Fleet. Would you still go with the aerators? and arent check valves needed to keep the water from draining back out the pump?
Do you have the diagram you mentioned?
Old    Jason Pribyl (skibum69)      Join Date: Aug 2004       03-23-2005, 11:42 AM Reply   
Gordon, I am converting mine to simers from aerators, I always had problems with the aerators priming plus you either need complex pluming or two pumps to fill and drain. I am getting my simers from farm and fleet as well. I would go with the simers
Old    Mikeski (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       03-23-2005, 2:22 PM Reply   
If I kept the boat it would be a tough call, since I had already installed the simers I would probably just leave them. Knowing what I know now if I were starting over I would use aerators. True they are a bit sensitive to priming but if they are installed below waterline in the correct orientation with good plumbing they should keep prime. The key to keeping the water from siphoning out of the bladder is to vent the hose, see attached diagram. Fill port in top, drain port in bottom, drain must loop up then down as it exit's hull.

Old    Mikeski (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       03-23-2005, 2:24 PM Reply   
I might add a automatic waste gate in front of the fill pump if it uses a scoop through hull to prevent unintentional filling at speed. The vent lines can be done with small tubing, their main purpose is to vacuum break siphons and exhaust air from the bladder.
Old    Luciano Grimblat (luchog)      Join Date: Jun 2002       03-24-2005, 6:31 PM Reply   
sorry to ask this, but translation for me is difficult sometimes, what is an aerator pump???
I posted about this same topic a while back and nobody answered : (
Old    Bob (bob)      Join Date: Feb 2001       03-25-2005, 10:56 AM Reply   
its a pump used for mostly baitwells in fishing boats to keep the bait alive
Old    Mikeski (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       03-25-2005, 11:09 AM Reply   
Just like a bilge pump except it attaches to a hose.


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