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Old    Big Ed (big_ed_x2)      Join Date: Jul 2004       02-26-2005, 7:28 AM Reply   
If that's how you feel then you shouldn't put up a list that eveybody's gonna feel is false or most of us!
I got my boat cuzz I love being out on the water so don't change the subject!!
Old    Romi (romi)      Join Date: Sep 2002       02-26-2005, 7:43 AM Reply   
Its not the list.. its the point.. its his opinion.. Thats all this is.. Opinions.
Old    wickedwakes (sjmedic)      Join Date: May 2004       02-26-2005, 9:56 AM Reply   
Hey Waterlover...see what you started? LOL!!! This is great! I think I will change your nickname to "spoon" (Stirring it up.....get it)?
Old    jzwake            02-26-2005, 12:49 PM Reply   
Thanks Romi. Obbviously he didn't read the post.

But ok, Would the enjoyment of the water change if your boat used 2in washers as backing plates instead of 2.5 inch. I hope not.

Enjoy your boating.

PS. Your the only one who posted my list was wrong. If it makes you happy:

Best wakeboard boat in mastercrafts line
1) X2 ( I feel Xstars wake and handling leave way too much to be desired, great double ups and storage though)

Best wakeboard boat with max 90inch beam
1) X2

Best Wakeboard boat under 21ft
1) X2
Old    Timothy (timmy)      Join Date: Jul 2001       02-26-2005, 1:00 PM Reply   
the corvette/porsche/ferrari comment is completely innacurate. it is more like pickup trucks with chevy/ford/dodge, associate whichever to which boat you like. they are all about the same and people like to argue about them. you guys should make calvin stickers so everyone knows your true feelings!
Old    bsow2g            02-26-2005, 1:15 PM Reply   
all the comparisons ive seen between ford/chevy/dodge have gone like this:Chevy=luxurious, Ford=budget, Dodge=cheap shjt.
Old    Timothy (timmy)      Join Date: Jul 2001       02-26-2005, 1:17 PM Reply   
haha brian, that exactly points out what I am saying, that is your opinion, definately conflicts mine.
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       02-26-2005, 1:20 PM Reply   
More interesting questions are:

1) MC

a) is the X2 better a better hardcore wakeboat than then XSTAR?

b) is the price difference justified?

2) BU

a) is the new WakeSetter VLX better than the previous WakeSetter VLX?

b) is the price difference justified?

3) CC

a) why is the 10+ year old SAN still one of the best wakeboarding hulls in the world?

b) why does CC suck at storage so bad?

4) Sanger

An xstar is twice the price.

how can this be justified for any reason other than EGO?
Old    footin_farley            02-27-2005, 12:26 AM Reply   
X-2 is the best 4 sport boat MC has.
Barefooting
Slalom
Kneeboarding
Wakeboarding

Not very roomy and porpoises a bit too much for me. Other than that a great boat.
Old    Nick Heckerson (kstateskier)      Join Date: May 2002       02-27-2005, 12:42 AM Reply   
4 sport boat??? There is no way I'm slaloming behind an X-2. You wakeboarders don't really understand the crossover boat from a slalom skiers perspective. The X-2 doesn't cut it, it's a recreational slalom boat at best. IMO, the best crossover boat is the Malibu Sunsetter LXi, but like I said, that's from a slalom skiers perspective. As the wakeboard wake wouldn't be that great for those of you at a high level. Also, the X-9 is also a horrible slalom boat. If I had to pick a v-drive to slalom behind at all, it would be the 21 ft. LSV from Malibu. I do agree though that the X-2 is a great boat. Still a great buy, even though it's not the companies marquee wake boat anymore. I've probably spent more time in the X-2 driving than any other wake boat and I like to drive it. I like the smaller size I guess.
Old    Rick Bailey (kcsideways)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-27-2005, 7:24 AM Reply   
The new 'Australian University Championship' slalom record which was set behind a} 2004 Supra Launch 22SSV at Mildura, Victoria, Australia, 3502, Saturday 5 February 2005 is:


Andrew 'Panda' Morris
3 buoys @ 38' off (ie 3 @ 11.25m)


It's by no means a world record; however, considering the level of competition (university titles) , water conditions (less than perfect) and that the event was being towed by the 22SSV (a wakeboarding boat!), it is a very respectable result.
Old    jzwake            02-27-2005, 8:55 AM Reply   
as for the American trucks, I agree That chevy,dodge and ford all have their fans and haters. Being a chevy owner who didn't like the last version of the f150 I used to bust on ford some. Honestly, they are even more equal then the MC,CC,BU. But, that is a great comparision from tim.

GDs questions are good. So i want to post my OPINIONS.
-----------
More interesting questions are:

1) MC

a) is the X2 better a better hardcore wakeboat than then XSTAR? I belive SO, the Xstar is better for a big crew but the wake is just not Anything I like. I rode it with fact ballast and 12 people on board and the wake was just not great for me.

b) is the price difference justified? NO, its not and When I asked a MC dealer (Owner of shop) His only justification is their was nothing out there like it so you should want to pay And extra 15-20K. So that sound like a EGO thing to be referenced later.

2) BU

a) is the new WakeSetter VLX better than the previous WakeSetter VLX? NOT sure yet, my first impression with one ride on teh new hull is they are equal. The new bopat is definitly more spacious and they under floor ballast is pleaser.

b) is the price difference justified? There was bearly any price increase form 04 to 05 on the VLX. The markup was small enough to say it would of happened even if it was not changed (oil costs, inflation).

3) CC

a) why is the 10+ year old SAN still one of the best wakeboarding hulls in the world? People like a steeper wake because it allows them to get a little extra boot even without a perfect edge. I love the size of the boat as well, great for me to store and trailer around. I do like the classic styling and look. Just becuase a design is 10 years old doesn;t mean it can't be great. Look at the V210 sanger.

b) why does CC suck at storage so bad? The storage is scarce, without a doubt. It is adequate for me and my crew. Its a trade off for the small foot print of the hull, and how many people who have a lake front house really use much storage.

4) Sanger

An xstar is twice the price. -Yes it is.

how can this be justified for any reason other than EGO? - Tough to justify. I say it can't but sanger is a myth to most of the US. my closest dealer is 800 miles away. Its been said before of theres boards "How can you justify buying a 50K VLX, SAN, X2 when you can get the sanger for $36K". I hope to have sanger as a option soon and see for myself.


Old    bc canuck (abc33660)      Join Date: Jan 2005       02-27-2005, 10:04 AM Reply   
I do not own any of the big three boats so I will stay out of which boat is better. I am a Chartered Accountant (equivalent to a CPA in the US).

I disagree with Waterlover's contention that Malibu dealers have to be paid additional margins in order to sell an inferior boat. Based on the work that I do with my automotive clients I know that margins have very little to do with the quality or the cost of a product. It has everything to do with supply and demand.

Let me give you an example. The Acura MDX has been a very popular mid sized SUV for the last six or seven years. For the first four of five of those years most dealer were able to sell them at MSRP or even over MSRP. Now the Ford Explorer in that same period never sells at MSRP. So according to Waterlover's theory this would imply that since the Explorer has a smaller margin the quality is better than the MDX as the dealer does not need a financial incentive to sell it.

At least in the automotive business, the best margins are found in the vehicle with the most demand. Also the better margins are usually found in the more expensive vehicles. You should see what the margins are on Lincoln Navigator.

To put it another way. If every Mastercraft dealer could increase its margins to 50% or 60% without losing sales ... would they? Of course they would ... aren't you all in America the land of capitalism.

BTW - I own a '05 Tige 22i ... so bash away.
Old    bambamski            02-27-2005, 12:16 PM Reply   
How many people buy a boat or truck without ever driving what's in the same class? I bet over half, you get stuck on a certain brand and if you've never had any problems with it why change?

All my neighbors are chevy people, I had a blazer, Z71 and a Yukon. When I was buying my new truck I drove all three and I bought what I liked the best. I get grief all the time about buying my F350 by the neighbors. I think they're retarded for not even driving or considering anything else though.

Same thing with boats. It's tough to keep an open mind when you're looking at all the different brands as you'll always have preconceived notions about them. When I went to the BU dealer and MC dealer I took a buddy who doesn't know much about boats. He was great to go with because he picked things out that I looked over or had the blinders on for.

If you're a hardcore MC or BU lover, chances are you'll be able to pick out the smallest falts of each boat with out ever seeing them on your brand. I'm happy with my purchase and think that I bought the best boat for me. I have friends that have BU's and I'll never turn down a ride behind their boats. They put out a great wake, and I'll have as much fun in and behind a BU as I'll have when I take them on my MC. You can't go wrong with any of the big 5 these days.

The boat wars thing will always be pointless, but they can be kind of fun as well. Only two more months until the ice breaks up... I'll see ya out there
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       02-27-2005, 3:07 PM Reply   
JZ, nice response.

Regarding... "how many people who have a lake front house really use much storage"

I was told by the CC Regional REP that this is likely the reason CC hardly considers storage volume and access. He said that for years CC had poor trailers for similar reasons.

I related to him that most WEST SIDE consumers are day trippers and a full day on the water demands storage volume and access.

This is especially true on the delta.
Old    jzwake            02-27-2005, 3:51 PM Reply   
GD, good to hear you sticking it to the CC people. I get in arguements with a CC rep out here voer the observer seat every boat show (He looks to argue with me as much as I do with him). He tells me wakeboarders want that seat because they can store a board under there. I just laugh and say "No I don't"
Old    Clubmyke (clubmyke)      Join Date: Aug 2004       02-27-2005, 4:22 PM Reply   
in looking at current boat trends, the majority of boats have gotten a lot bigger..but then again so has most americans (different subject all together)

a lot will depend on "your situation"....if you go wakeboarding or boating with 6-10 people, then a bigger boat is the ticket. if 3-6 people then boat storage may note be a issue.

have to agree that cc doesnt have the most storage. the newer 211 & 226 are better in that regards. but the storage in my 211 is fine for my situation and most importantly it fits in my garage !!!!
Old    Big Ed (big_ed_x2)      Join Date: Jul 2004       02-27-2005, 4:53 PM Reply   
Pat ~ Good post,I Feel like that on everything you touched on!

Mike ~ Your boat is the shiiiiiznit!!Plenty of storage and super fun boat to be behind!!

(Message edited by big_ed_x2 on February 27, 2005)
Old    Clubmyke (clubmyke)      Join Date: Aug 2004       02-27-2005, 6:02 PM Reply   
thanks big ed... cant wait for my foot to heal and go out on your PIMPED x-2 !!!!!
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       02-28-2005, 2:14 PM Reply   
I just don't see how the markup can be an indicator of boat quality. Isn't it possible that the dealer has a different arrangement from one company to the next? Where the MC deal was front loaded perhaps the BU situation was heavy on the back end ie a % of the sale? How is it that Malibu is so much cheaper coming from the factory? Doesn't the mark up % indicate that MC has to cut it's earnings just to sell boats? If they were to mark them up at the percentage the Malibu does they would be way too expensive & no one would buy them. Malibu as a company is more streamlined & doesn't have to push the #'s that MC does as they make more on each boat. I guarantee you MC wishes they were able to markup the boats like Malibu does. What special technique makes MC cost so much more? Perhaps it's the advertising they have to do so they can sell the numbers that they must to make a profit or perhaps it's the Pro Tour, I know that isn't cheap.

Waterlover, are you related to John Kerry because you spun this one so it reads to back you up. I see it as showing MC's faults. Also you said that we all have opinions etc. so then why are you adament about having your opinion marked as law?
Old    Psyclone (cyclonecj)      Join Date: Jul 2001       02-28-2005, 4:35 PM Reply   
It's definitely more expensive to build boats in California than in Fla or Tenn. Taxes, environmental stuff, labor costs, kooky local politicians...

The dealer is WAY more important than the extremely minor quality and construction differences between the top and even second tier manufacturers. Since my local MC dealer (ATL)is a complete tool, no chance I'm buying one of those, regardless of price or quality.

Plus, my Toyota is still nicer than all of them. AND I use 61% less fuel and have 1/4 the maintenance. NYAAAAAHHHHH!!
Old    bambamski            03-01-2005, 8:35 AM Reply   
Longest post in the history of WW right here.

Psyclone, didn't that 61% less fuel and 1/4 the maintenance boat pull up stakes and go out of business?? Also heard the engine didn't have enough tourqe?

Ok here it is MC has how they build their boats step by step. Malibu doesn't really have that on their website. I copy and pasted what Malibu has. It would be nice to know how BU does their floor and gelcoat and what they do with their molds. I couldn't find anything on that though. Maybe some can find it because I couldn't.

Both are right from the websites...

MC

After a prototype boat is validated, molds must be cast of its hull, floor liner and deck. These molds are precisely constructed and then wrapped in a steel skeleton to keep them from warping or twisting over time. We design and build our molds right here at the factory.

Your MasterCraft is only as good as its mold, which must be meticulously maintained. MasterCraft is the only inboard-boat builder with an entire department dedicated to inspecting, maintaining and waxing every mold. Hulls are waxed and buffed every 3 uses, decks every 5. After 50 uses, both hull and deck molds are removed from rotation and undergo a complete overhaul, all to make them a better fit for your boat.

Each MasterCraft deck and hull is prepped and taped off before the gelcoat stage. Tape is applied to the deck to mark where the accent lines will be sprayed after the boat receives the base color.

Boats are built from the outside in, so the first material applied to a boat mold is the color or "gelcoat." Our gelcoat is a product of Cook Composites & Polymers — the number-one gelcoat producer in the world.

To get multiple colors on the exterior of a boat, we carefully apply layers of paper and tape to the mold, spray it with gelcoat and then remove the tape. The gelcoat is sprayed 22 millimeters thick and checked to .005 inch. Each mold is striped and gelcoated up to 3 times to give every MasterCraft a rich, colorful finish. MasterCraft even goes so far as to gelcoat the liner. This is day one. It takes approximately 7 business days to build a boat.

Think of it as gelcoat insurance. A protective layer of resin is applied between the gelcoat and the first layer of fiberglass to prevent gelcoat print-through and blistering. MasterCraft is one of the very few boatbuilders who currently use this preventive measure to ensure the long-term beauty of your boat. We wouldn't have it any other way.

Now your boat is ready for the first application of fiberglass. We start by wetting the mold with resin, laying in a blanket piece of fiberglass, saturating it with more resin and then hand-rolling every crevice to remove air pockets. This application is referred to as the "skin" stage.

The preferred way of constructing a boat is to hand-lay the fiberglass. Handlaid fiberglass is stronger and more consistent. That's why we buy premier-quality mat and woven fiberglass and then cut it into the appropriate shape and thickness of each individual model boat. We hand-lay up to 22 layers of fiberglass on each boat to ensure strength.

Next, a layer of stiff synthetic foam is applied to the boat for a superior strength-to-weight ratio. Our synthetic foam is the most advanced product available today. It is lighter, stronger and more durable. It also serves as a heat barrier, a cosmetic print-through protector and a stiffening agent.

Stringers are the backbone of your boat. MasterCraft's exclusive Monocoque stringer system is primary-bonded to the hull. AnchorLok™ aluminum, steel and high-density polyethylene (HDPE) pieces are glassed into the structure for anchoring major external hardware.

Steel for engine and ski-pylon mounting is sandwiched under the liner. PVC conduit is laminated into the deck for easy cable and wire routing.

While some manufacturers send out for parts, we handcraft even small fiberglass parts, using the superior handlaid method, to ensure quality and the LifeMaster® construction seal of approval. Ski lockers, coolers, trailer fenders and other pieces are built on a specially allocated assembly line.

The MasterCraft liner system is unequaled by any other inboard company. The mechanical bond and unibody construction adds rigidity and strength, making a MasterCraft more like offshore fishing and performance boats.

After the floor liner has been separated from the mold, it's sanded and prepared for installation. While the hull is still in the mold, the floor liner is lowered in and bonded with a vinylester adhesive in a process called GlassLok.® Then a 1-ton press is lowered into the hull and ratcheted down to hold the floor firmly in place. The end result is a handlaid fiberglass liner that works as a floor and guarantees the hull's strength and shape over time.

While the press sandwiches the 2 unibody pieces together, MasterCraftsmen inject expanding closed-cell flotation foam in the open cavity between the hull and floor. This ensures level flotation, and noise and vibration dampening.

After the hull lamination is complete, it's time to remove it from the mold. Using special tools, workers chisel around the boat's edges to free it and then attach hoists to gently lift it out. This birthing process is remarkable considering the deep lustre of the gelcoat and the crispness of the hand-striped accent lines.

After the hull is separated from the mold, the deck is separated in a similar process. Then drillers and grinders, donning climate-controlled space suits and shielded helmets, go to work trimming rough fiberglass edges and precisely drilling holes where parts will be attached in assembly. MasterCraftsmen secure color-coded jigs around the boat, carefully drilling each hole Every boat has its own set of jigs to ensure that no hole is mistakenly placed. Each boat will be drilled with 100 to 200 holes at this time. This type of tooling allows MasterCraft to produce a high-quality product with superior fit and finish.

Our quality control managers and supervisors methodically check, inspect and report on every boat that comes down the line. While there are QA checkpoints throughout the lamination building, no boat is allowed to move into assembly without passing a stringent final inspection. At this QA station, the trained eyes of our quality personnel scour the hull, deck and liner with light wands to catch minute imperfections. Then they join the hull and deck to ensure that the shoebox fit is secure.

Over 1,000 components are installed on 17 different model boats, at 15 stations, along 3 separate manufacturing lines. Everything from dash pods to engines to stereos and cleats is installed here with utmost precision and attention to detail. At this point the boat is only 2 1/2 days away from completion. One manufacturing line is dedicated to direct-drive boats and another line is dedicated to VectorDrive™ boats. Each of these lines runs the full length of the building, and a separate line, running half the length of the building, is dedicated to the production of the MariStar 280 VLD and the X-80 due to their size.

We compression-mold our ProStar dash and glove-box lid to eliminate any squeaks, rattles and blisters. MariStar dashes, glove-box lids and armrests are vacuum-formed parts. All instrument and stereo remote control panels are made of machined billet aluminum. The Teleflex® Xtreme cables reduce loss of motion up to 70 percent

We use high-quality Duetche® connectors on all bilge wiring to ensure a positive connection and withstand the elements of the marine environment. Borg-Warner™ provides electromechanical gauges for more responsive electronics. Heavy 40-oz. Syntec Delta® carpeting is used for longer wear and is standard on every MasterCraft.

We use heavy-duty ballast pumps to fill and empty the ballast tanks on our boats. They’re not only quicker than bilge-type pumps used with other systems, but they won’t lose their prime either

When a boat enters the assembly building, the hull and deck are separated to make attaching small parts, carpeting the interior and loading the engine less cumbersome. Therefore the boat moves down the line with the deck one station ahead of the hull. At the engine station, installers are careful to align the engine properly, securing it to the motor mounts and connecting the drivetrain. All holes for each powerplant are drilled with fixtures to ensure every motor is located precisely where it was engineered to be. After drilling, each hole is tapped in preparation to bolt the engine in. After the engine has been installed, the deck can be mated with the hull.

The stainless steel shaft in our rudder is sturdy and is less likely to bend under impact. We use 8 bolt struts — the beefiest in the industry — to secure the stainless steel driveshaft.

We produce our own custom upholstery using high-density foam, rotocast polyethylene frames and backs (instead of wood), premium vinyl, and heavy-duty stitching. As many as 9 grades of foam are used for maximum comfort. Every metal component on a MasterCraft is either stainless steel or other noncorrosive material. Even upholstery staples are stainless steel.

In a MasterCraft, all seat bases are part of the deck mold. The deck is mechanically fastened into the floor liner with L-brackets and mated using a tongue-and-groove process to create the most solid boat in the industry. All seat bases are made of molded fiberglass, which will not get soft in hot weather, as plastic will. Fiberglass seat bases will also retain their shape and last forever.

Rotocasting is by far the best way to build a seat. We further toughen the interior by molding nutserts into our seating structure, making it possible to bolt most upholstery to the deck. Our aluminum sundeck and rear-seat structure are solid and durable.

All MasterCraft vinyl is foam-backed for better wear and longevity. Our new pleating machine allows us to build the whole interior on the premises and ensure the quality look of true-sewn pleats. To make our interiors last even longer, we use triple-density, self-draining reticulated foam to keep your boat looking stylish for decades and to keep your seat dry.

With all systems "go," we do a final cleaning, then shrink-wrap the boats for safety before shipping them to dealers. We are the only manufacturer who shrink-wraps all boats.

The hull and deck are joined by heavy-duty screws and backed up by HDPE for maximum strength and rigidity. Our V-drive pylons are securely bolted into steel plates, laminated into the liner of the boat. Our windshields are built with thick, durable extrusion and stainless steel support brackets.

All MasterCraft towers are made locally and installed right here. We use 2-inch tubing and chromed billet aluminum to make the most enduring towers. All tower-speaker housings, tower-light assemblies, and boardracks (patent pending) are available only through MasterCraft — one source for sales and warranty.

All MasterCraft boats are run on the water for the final test before their last cleaning. Sure, it sounds like a dream job to be the lake tester, but it's no easy task. Lake testers meticulously scrutinize the boat's performance and behavior on the water, so you are spared any surprises. We hear the other guys are testing in a kiddie pool

MasterCraft is the only inboard manufacturer to custom-build and color-match trailers for each individual boat model. This ensures that every boat will sit securely on the trailer and give you, our customer, peace of mind when pulling your prized possession down the road.


Malibu

It’s easy to get the big things right. The difference lies in the details. For Malibu Boats that means design based on the intricacies of ergonomics and comfort. In 2005 our attention to these details has expanded exponentially.

We have pushed our interiors a step beyond. Malibu dashes are not just a standard feature anymore, they are a showcase detail. Individually hand-wrapped and available in 12 color combinations, the 2005 dashes are a style statement. The passenger side dash in the 21.5 footers has been built up, hand-wrapped and hollowed out to house a huge 1.5 cubic foot locking storage cubby complete with a 12-volt power point and a slip-less rubber mat. We have thought of everything.

It’s hard to take in the breadth of our detailing. Exclusive 38 oz. G&T Marine vinyl shrouds tri-ply interior foam, providing multiple densities of support to comfort and eliminate sags. The sensual lines of the interior are punctuated by the precise seam alignment connecting the inviting seating areas. The premium nylon carpeting invites toe wiggling pleasure with its plush feel and tough bounce-back capability. The combination confirms Malibu is the right choice. The only choice.


The new standard flip-up bolster seat elevates the driver to a new vantage point, increases visibility and removes all doubt when obstacles come into question on the water. Safety is always foremost in our minds.


Our new billet dash insert is machined from a solid piece of aluminum, then chromed. Now standard in all Wakesetter series models, it is a shining demonstration of the level of refinement to which Malibu has ascended with the 2005 model line up. It may seem like just a small detail, but at Malibu superior craftsmanship knows no boundries

A fine exterior is only half the story of an exceptional boat. It’s only complete when what doesn’t show equals the quality of what does. In the case of Malibu Boats, what you don’t see is the patented Fiberglass Engine Chassis System (FibECS). FibECS is chemically bonded to the interior of the hull at a molecular level with Weld-On®, to achieve unibody construction. The engine is through-bolted, not tap mounted, directly to FibECS at eight separate attachment points to insure level, vibration-free engine operation and to disperse load equally over a greater area. We refuse to compromise the structural integrity of your boat. FibECS also uses active air induction to funnel clean, cool air to the engine for increased performance. It shelters the boat’s wiring looms from the extremes of a marine environment. Proven innovations like this have made Malibu Boats the number one tow boat manufacturer in the world with zero failures of more than 24,000 FibECS reinforced Malibu boats in operation today.


Laminates

From multiple layers of hand laid bi-directional and tridirectional fiberglass to the industry-leading ceramic coring, Malibu boats are built to extremes using the finest materials available.
Swivel-Head Pylon.
We are not willing to relinquish control over the design and construction of signature elements. Malibu’s patented swivel-head pylon, like many other key Malibu parts, is built in house by Malibu employee-owners to guarantee reliability and improve production efficiency. Tested to resist up to 2,000 pounds of pull, the swivel-head pylon extends the life of your rope by swiveling with the slalom skier at the command of a dual needle bearing core. Available in chrome or standard brushed aluminum, the swivel-head pylon is just another example of Malibu construction, a step beyond.
Medallion Gauges

Our close working relationship with Medallion Instrumentation has allowed Malibu Boats to produce one of the most visible and accurate gauge clusters in the industry. Measuring 5 inches in diameter, these Malibu/Medallion gauges are servo driven for extreme accuracy and constructed to stand the test of time. Encircled with a stylish chrome bezel these eye-catching gauges supply up-to-the-second information.
Malibu Sound Suppression Technology.

Walk softly and carry a big stick. Or drive a well constructed boat. Silence denotes precision and with precision comes power. Malibu boats are classified as strong silent types thanks to the high caliber of their components. Our exclusive Malibu Sound Suppression Technology (MSST) lines the laminate of almost every Malibu model and eliminates prop thrust vibration and drive train noise. Our Space Age Composite Flooring System is engineered for longevity as well as noise restraint. Fused with the Fiberglass Engine Chassis System (FibECS) the Space Age Floor plays its part in unibody construction and adds even more rigidity to a Malibu boat. You also won’t hear a peep from mechanical fasteners working loose in a Malibu. Deck and hulls are blueprinted for an exact fit and then welded together with WeldOn® the leader in marine structural bonding.

All Malibu boats are born to perform, but the goal is not just high performance. It is on-demand, consistent, controllable yet unrestrained performance. We have no tolerance for half measures. It is this dedication to power and performance that has driven Malibu Boats to 11 world records since 1999 and put us at the top tier of the water sports industry.

Our desire for powerfully versatile water sports performance has led to industry-first innovations like the Wedge and a new, patent-pending, Adjustable Rudder. Our search for accurate on-demand information ignited the development of Malibu’s Ballast Monitoring System (BMS) to give professionals and aspiring pros the tools they need to push their abilities. Precisely machined CNC propellers and laser-straight Gorilla tracking fins join the list of Malibu’s performance-enhancing originality. All this performs at the command of Indmar Marine Engines, the power behind 10 of the past 13 “Tow Boat of the Year” awards.


The all-new Adjustable Rudder
Find control exactly the way you want it with Malibu’s new Adjustable Rudder. It is a versatile innovation for those who are serious about their slalom, but do not want to sacrifice a finger-tip controlled leisurely cruise. Exclusive to Malibu, this adjustable load rudder is standard on all models and can be adjusted with the quick turn of an Allen screw. Set it to neutral for a “no load” day of wakeboarding and running the lake. When it is time to run the course, customize the load in either direction for the perfect pull.


Ballast Monitoring System
Malibu, in partnership with Medallion Instrumentation, has developed a new Ballast Monitoring System (BMS), standard in Wakesetter VLX, Wakesetter LSV and Wakesetter 23XTi. The BMS extends the benefit of the Malibu Launch System (MLS). Ballast tanks are measured in quarter tank increments and can be monitored on the LCD display in the speedometer. With as much as 1,250 lbs of ballast to keep track of, Malibu has introduced an in-dash Ballast Monitoring System (BMS) to allow riders to fine tune the placement of weight in each area of the boat. Riders agree, this type of detailed system information is invaluable and the first of its kind in the water sports industry.


Gorilla Fins
Gorilla Fins were designed for Malibu’s powerful line of V-drive boats. These monstrous 120 square-inch fi ns plunge deep into the water beneath the boat and offer an oversized surface area to allow a level of tracking and handling only matched by Direct-Drive boats. The sheer size and design of these fins steadies the boat and creates a rock solid center pivot point, thereby improving turning radius and overall maneuverability even with a rider cutting hard behind the boat.


The Wedge
Malibu’s exclusive hydrofoil technology, the Wedge, is more convenient to use than portable ballast for hull displacement, and safer. Creating approximately 1000-pounds of down force on-demand, the Wedge has played a pivotal part in securing Malibu four of the last five “Towboat of the Year” awards. Recognized as “Impact Design of the Year” by one wakeboarding magazine, the Wedge increases the wake without adding weight, without exceeding your boat’s weight capacity limits and without a significant decrease in handling. Naturally, the Wedge is one of the most popular Malibu boat accessories. Polished Stainless Wedge also available.

Old    Brendan (kybool)      Join Date: Aug 2004       03-01-2005, 9:54 AM Reply   
holy crap that is a long post
Old    derek boyer (toyotafreak)      Join Date: Sep 2003       03-01-2005, 11:08 AM Reply   
Scott, you're just jealous that yours is so short.

Psyclone's is 61% shorter.

And Pat, with a stock prop, we can just barely get 3,000 on plane (total ballast and passengers.) No excuse for us not propping a couple inches.

(Message edited by toyotafreak on March 01, 2005)
Old    Psyclone (cyclonecj)      Join Date: Jul 2001       03-01-2005, 2:55 PM Reply   
Pat. Yes, they don't make them anymore, it's still a better boat. No, it has plenty of torque if you prop it right. 61% better, the numbers don't lie;)
Old    linus8103            03-01-2005, 3:17 PM Reply   
Hey Waterlover, You hope MC keeps their price up because not everyone deserves to own one...What exactly do you mean by that?
Old    TK (swab791)      Join Date: Mar 2005       03-04-2005, 7:05 PM Reply   
WOW what a TOPIC.
Some of you guys need to learn what "SPIN" is. This even happens in the boat industry.

FACT 1 Malibu has 3 factories Ca, Tenn, Australia.
#1 boat manufactuer in 03 or 04... Big deal 3 factories. They better make more boats than MC. Just Maybe they built a few extra just to beat them out. Think of that!

#2 The Wedge... Great idea how come none of the PRO RIDERS use it. It distorts the wake. 1200 lbs of extra pressure on the stern. Seen many a photo with the stern torn out of the boat. NO FOAM BOAT SINKS GOOD BYE !!!

#3 HOLLOW STINGERS with no steel backing any where in the boat. Stringers fill with water it does not evaporate. MC has a SERIOUS backing plate system. Every item in the boat has a backing plate prelaminated in the deck or hull for support.

#4 RESALE RESALE RESALE A MasterCraft resale will yield a 20-30 less depreciation than a Malibu NADA does not lie... look it up for yourself. A boat that is 2-4 years old.. thats 4-7K back in your pocket making up more than the difference in intial purchase price. NO SPIN ZONE HERE

#5 A MC is built to a more exact standard than a Malibu. Cutting a hole with a saw in the bottom of the boat leaving RAW expoxed figerglass so you don't need to align the shaft to the transmission...who came up with this ingenious idea? Why no HYDROPHONIC DAMPENING box the Malibu's V DRIVE BOATS...any takers

#6 What the heck do you need a 5 1/2 guage for anyway. If you cant read a 3 1/2 in guage you shouldnt be driving a boat in the first place.

#7 GORILLA FINS.. Why doesnt a Malibu turn without these things? Compare a X-2 with full ballast in a hard turn with hard throttle...the boat turns. A Wakesetter rocks and rolls even with the over sized fins. Those things are a PATCH job on something that does not work. Why are they screwed into the bottom vs. though bolted. Why are there 6 screws in the strut vs 8 on a MC that are though BOLTED...ANSWER IT COSTS LESS

#8 A Mastercraft is built to more exact standards. It does cost more to hand lay glass 100% in every part. It cost more to have a different deck on a open bow boat vs a closed bow. Did you know that a Malibu OPEN bow Response LX is the SAME hull...Mailbu takes a stencil and cuts a HOLE in the closed bow boat to make it a OPEN bow then ads the interior. Less expensive yes !

I could go on for hours...didnot want to write a COPY or thesis about it. Malibu= good boat MC=better boat. Some people drive Chevys...Some people drive BMW's

GOOD NIGHT}
Old    Randy Peacock (peacock)      Join Date: Jan 2005       03-04-2005, 7:15 PM Reply   
I'll bet you own a .... MC and tow it with a BMW!
Old    Wkerat (wkerat)      Join Date: Sep 2002       03-04-2005, 7:20 PM Reply   
hmm, i have a malibu and tow it with my porsche...maybe we should say malibu=porsche....Actually in my eyes I would compare Nautique, Malibu, and Mastercraft like I would compare bmw, mercedes, and lexus...They are all good and I like some things about each one, but that is only after owning all 3 brands and of them all I felt my mastercraft had the poorest build, but that can vary boat to boat so I wouldn't hold that against them when I shop for future boats. As I am sure people have said nothing is more important than the dealer and I have owned all my brands from one dealer who truly stands by there product and tells it like it is.
Old    shane (auto)      Join Date: Aug 2002       03-04-2005, 8:11 PM Reply   
poor comparison between merecedes, bmw, and toyota. wakeoard boats are totally different.
Old    Wkerat (wkerat)      Join Date: Sep 2002       03-04-2005, 8:28 PM Reply   
All I am saying is you are comparing 3 top brands. They all have good and bad points, but they are all great boats and if you spend enough time in each one you can see that. There is no ultimate boat, but each of these brands has some great things and they push one another to be better, just like comparable car manufacturers. And just like cars each person has different needs and likes a different one. I had a bmw 3-series and loved it, but when i was looking to replace it I test drove an m3, a mb clk amg, and a audi s4. I ended up with the audi, but I still love bmw's just like I still like the other boat brands I owned, I just happen to like malibu's model more at this time...
Old    clubjoeskier            03-04-2005, 10:20 PM Reply   
For a sec I thought I was reading the political catfight section again....

Wouldn't it be easier to buy a Calabria? Then you would never have to get in a slap fight with anyone, and no one would really have anything bad to say about your ride......

My -second- choice was a Malibu -or- EpicSX....
Old    sl4ppy            03-05-2005, 7:46 AM Reply   
I like this comparison:

MC owners tend to be pretentious asses who jump at any opportunity to extole the minute justifications as to why they paid about 30% more for basically the same boat.

'bu owners, not so much.

*cough* TJK *cough*

(Message edited by sl4ppy on March 05, 2005)
Old    Clubmyke (clubmyke)      Join Date: Aug 2004       03-05-2005, 8:30 AM Reply   
sl4ppy- dont think you can catorgize a boat brand with a personality traiti...(that is the most stupid generalization i have seen posted... do you actually believe that ???)

i have know /ride with some very cool, generous/genuine people who just so happen to own a different mfg. boat than my cc.. between us there are mc owners, malibu, centurion, cc, and supra boats..

after spending a day with them on their boat or my boat..i can say the brand of the boat has nothing to do with their personality (the so cal group would problabley agree with me on this)..

either you are a cool person to be around or not.it does not depend on the mfg. of boat you own.

(Message edited by clubmyke on March 05, 2005)
Old    Wkerat (wkerat)      Join Date: Sep 2002       03-05-2005, 8:53 AM Reply   
I agree with mike, you can't say someone is something because of the boat they own. Mainly it is what fits them the best, now can this reflect their personality sure. For example some people don't like showy things so they may get a toned down boat, which does reflect that they don't want the brightest boat on the lake. For the most part though people buy because they find a boat that they like the most about or a dealer they like. I can go on about many brands and say things I like about them all, but some I can't even buy around here, and others the dealers suck. You will always find die hard owners who think only one brand is good. I know this since I have a friend who will only buy a nautique no matter what he likes about other brands. So yes, we all love our boats, which is great, but at times many of us are too close minded to other brands and negative marketing portrayed about them, that many times is false. Right now I own a Malibu, but who is to say that in 5 years I won't own a supra and they will be a better boat. Time changes things. In the late 90's Malibu's were not in the same league as Mastercraft and Nautique, but they kept trying to improve and they have and now are right there. I only say this because I know from owning all of them and putting over 500 hours on each that they are all great boats. As I said I had more problems with my mastercraft, but I assume that is was an off boat, my nautiques vinyl tore at all the seams, and my malibu's carpet seemed to stain to easy (why i ordered a carpet insert now and the new carpet is nicer). Still I had great times in each and my personality did not change, just what I was looking for in a boat. I even thought about a new x-star, but i am a performance guy when i drive and didn't like that. It is a great boat, just not for me, but hey, a vlx isn't for everyone either...
Old    bambamski            03-05-2005, 11:22 AM Reply   
SL4ppy said
"MC owners tend to be pretentious asses who jump at any opportunity to extole the minute justifications as to why they paid about 30% more for basically the same boat.

'bu owners, not so much."

You're an idiot! Where did you come up with 30%??? The V-ride at this year boat show was 3k less than what I paid for my X-2. The Vride didn't have ballast in the price.

I like how some guys quote this all the time. They negotiate(sp) their boat (what ever brand) for the best price and then compare it to the MSRP of a MC or other boat. Of course they're going to be lower. Only an idiot would pay MSRP, or maybe that's what Sl4ppy paid? I suppose that would prove my post...
Old    shane (auto)      Join Date: Aug 2002       03-05-2005, 11:47 AM Reply   
#4 RESALE RESALE RESALE A MasterCraft resale will yield a 20-30 less depreciation than a Malibu NADA does not lie... look it up for yourself. A boat that is 2-4 years old.. thats 4-7K back in your pocket making up more than the difference in intial purchase price". NO SPIN ZONE HERE "

Really. I suppose you think NADA is the marketplace? I do not see BU's in Dallas dropping 30% less than MC on depreciation. Nahh, there's no spin there.
Old    Kevin aka Chino (big_xstar)      Join Date: Nov 2004       03-05-2005, 12:02 PM Reply   
Quote
"I like this comparison:

MC owners tend to be pretentious asses who jump at any opportunity to extole the minute justifications as to why they paid about 30% more for basically the same boat.

'bu owners, not so much. "

That has to be the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen someone post on WW. Where and how do you even come up with a number like that?!!
I own a x-star, and I really resent the fact that you even try to assume that all MC owners are asses!!! I am fortunate enough to have met alot of great people in the wakeboarding community of so cal, (many of which are MC owners)and I have yet to meet someone that comes close to what you are presenting in your post!!!!A boat doesn't make a person, the person is that person well before they own a boat!!!!
Old    TK (swab791)      Join Date: Mar 2005       03-05-2005, 4:52 PM Reply   
The next paragraph is from Malibu...wonder why the MSRP PRICE of 34995 is no longer published? Standard with Tandem Axle trailer. This statement requires some thought. What fool would by a higher priced Malibu if the lesser ones are just as good.
Seems like a double standard to me. Can't wait to see how long these LESSER boats last and what the resale will be on them. I can only imagine.


"The Ride Series boats are built on the same SV23 wake hull that has been propelling wakeboarders to record heights for years. Optimize the wakeboarding experience with the standard 500 pounds of ballast in the center Malibu Launch System, the Gorilla fins on the vRide for tracking and add an optional Wedge for an extra 1,000 pounds of downthrust. Only your wallet will know the difference between your Malibu vRide and higher priced models. No matter where it rings out on the cash register, Malibu stands behind every model it makes with a Transferable Limited Lifetime Warranty."
Old    sl4ppy            03-06-2005, 7:24 AM Reply   
Wow..
Everyone here sure knows how to deal with sarcasm. You'd think someone murdered a family member.. Some people are just easily riled up, I guess.. *shrug*

ROFL! Too funny.

(Message edited by sl4ppy on March 06, 2005)
Old    bambamski            03-06-2005, 9:09 AM Reply   
Sarcasm?

Thanks coming out Newbie, maybe your next post won't sound like you're retarded...
Old    sl4ppy            03-07-2005, 11:18 AM Reply   
...take it however you want..

FWIW, I own a Mastercraft...
Old    Steve™ (kingskrew)      Join Date: May 2004       03-07-2005, 11:51 AM Reply   
/Flamewar off

Without a doubt, Malibu makes a better rum.

What were we talking about?

/Flamewar on



Old    Face Planter (mastercraft1995)      Join Date: Nov 2002       03-07-2005, 12:23 PM Reply   
I just sold a 1995 MC 205 excellent boat.

I now have a 04 VLX which is also an excellent.

I can't say which one is better and besides that who am I tell tell you which one is better.

You should buy what best fits your families needs.
Old    footin_farley            03-07-2005, 3:02 PM Reply   
This thread has taken on a life of its own......


What is the record for most posts on a thread?
Old    Adam (wyblea)      Join Date: Feb 2005       03-07-2005, 7:36 PM Reply   
All I can do is read this thread and laugh, which I might add has been going on and on and on. I own a 05 Malibu..my buddy owns a MC..and neither of us can figure out how and why many people on this post have such a strong opinion..and why this has turned into such a war on "who has a better boat." We have never had an actual argument on which boat is better because they are both great. This doesn't mean that each brand doesn't have it's own benefits, but that the sum are about the same.

The reason I have a Malibu doesn't have anything to do with the quality but 1) I already owned a Malibu, 2)I got a great deal, 3) The Mastercraft dealer didn't call me back....thus, Malibu.

Lastly....lets face it, if you truly love the water you would like to own either a Mastercraft or Malibu...and would love to ride behind either.

STOP being so SERIOUS it all about FUN
Old    Big Ed (big_ed_x2)      Join Date: Jul 2004       03-07-2005, 7:53 PM Reply   
Good post Adam!
Old    Buzz (buzz_grande)      Join Date: Mar 2004       03-07-2005, 8:05 PM Reply   
The "best" boat is the one that you own, or the one you are riding behind!

Everyone take a chill pill. This should be about fun.
Old    jzwake            03-08-2005, 7:10 AM Reply   
"Lastly....lets face it, if you truly love the water you would like to own either a Mastercraft or Malibu...and would love to ride behind either."

I love the water and got a CC becuase I like the water more then anyone who would be pretentious enough or cheap enough to buy a MC or BU. -- Thats Sarcasm.

NADA does not represent true resale in Inboards. Second problem is most people don't understand how to use NADA. They are adding all these standard options as options and inflating the boats mythilogical value. ie: you don't add a tower, ballast and engine upgrade to 330hp on a 210 Team on Nada.

There just isn't any best boat. Anyone who tells you there is, is simply not worth listening to.
Old    footin_farley            03-15-2005, 10:47 PM Reply   
Just Checking in on this one>>>>

Am I allowed to end this thread?
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       03-16-2005, 12:56 AM Reply   
No.

A friend of mine just got his 05 X-2. While its an excellent boat he has had a lot small build related problems that I wouldn't have expected. Also while it has a lot of CNC billet bling bling which is pimp it doesn't do the "core boat things" as well as I expected. By core things I mean, driving experience (turning, bow rise) ballast to wake size ratio & resulting gas consumption.

That said I did have high expectations as I have read the hype & was expecting something 15k better than I had experienced.

(Message edited by ralph on March 16, 2005)

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