Articles
   
       
       
Pics/Video
   
       
       
Shop
Search
 
 
 
 
 
Home   Articles   Pics/Video   Gear   Wake 101   Events   Community   Forums   Classifieds   Contests   Shop   Search
WAKE WORLD HOME
Email Password
Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Wakeboarding Discussion Archives > Archive through September 23, 2004

Share 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old    angels5            09-06-2004, 7:02 PM Reply   
What does this do to gas consumption? Does it cause a noticable drag on the boat? Is it better to get more ballast than a wedge?

Old    Gregg Vogt (blackandblue)      Join Date: Oct 2002       09-07-2004, 8:12 AM Reply   
1. Increased gas consumption, certainly. It is not dramatic unless you are wakesurfing (which guzzles even without the wedge).
2. Noticeable drag...hmmm kinda vague question, lets try this: Somewhat at holeshot, not really at boarding speeds. Full out (35+), the boat porpoises. Slow speed turning is greatly diminished.
3. Get a wedge. Reasons: Increase/decrease wake size immediately (we usually have a variety of abilities onboard). Makes the wake a little steeper...I like that a lot. Takes up less room on the boat. Holeshot is slower with ballast compared to the wedge (if you crash a lot this is important and also affects consumption)
Looks cooler (when people at gas stations ask what it is, I tell them it is a kickstand for parking the boat on sand or mud). Also, kids love the trap door...peeing through it especially.
Hope that helps a little...
Old    angels5            09-07-2004, 9:50 AM Reply   
Oh yes!, especially the peeing part, if nothing else I would get it for that, my 10 yr old would rather pee in public than wakeboard I'm sure!
Old    Gary Clinefelter (garyw)      Join Date: Jul 2001       09-07-2004, 1:28 PM Reply   
jacqui, you have several posts on the wedge now, first, what kind of boat do you have. If it is not a malibu, I would be concerned about the strength of the transom. Malibu has done the r&d, and builds their boats accordingly. If you do have a bu and are contemplating the wedge, it is a worth while investment. Everything Gregg said above is true, including the trap door
Old    angels5            09-07-2004, 2:15 PM Reply   
Looking at buying a malibu VLX, among other options. Since I am new to wakeboard boats, I want to make sure I know everything I need to before I make a final decision on boat/options/etc. Looked at Malibu & MC this weekend, so of course the MC dealer brought the wedge issue up, possibility of ripping off the boat, gas usage, etc. I'm not spending 46K+ on something I don't know everything about. Anal retentive, yes, but it serves me well occaisionally.
Old    edward            09-07-2004, 2:26 PM Reply   
i've ridden behind that boat once. sweet wake. first we rode with jsut the wedge alone and the wake was good then i rode with about 800lbs in sacs which teh wake was about the same size but just didnt' have the kick and tehn with weight and wedge which was sweet but i actually thought the wedge was the best part, we didn't even need sacs i thought, i mean the sacs made it alittle bigger but not much and it was amazing from plain wedge to plain sacs. with sacs it was just a big wake but didn't have enough lip. with the wedge it just shaped the wake perfectly and gave it a nice boost off the wake. it did make the boat sluggish in turning while boarding but it was definetly worth it.if we where to buy a wakeboard boat it would be a malibu or a supra LSV (we liked the hydralic wakeplate.)
Old    Gerald (sloshake)      Join Date: Mar 2003       09-07-2004, 2:55 PM Reply   
99% of people that rip off the wedge or such run into an object underwater. As long as you use common sense and pay attention to the depth gauge, you'll be fine.

One thing I've noticed with my wedge is that it does make it bigger, but it also pushes the sweet spot of the wake back a little further. I'm still riding at 60 feet (close to pushing back to 65) so I usually leave the wedge up. But it'll be nice to have as soon as my skill gets there.
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       09-07-2004, 3:08 PM Reply   
The wedge should be better on gas consumption than ballast. Ballast loads the boat independent of speed. The Wedge loads the boat proportional to speed. With the wedge, the boat gets loaded more and more as you come up to speed. It may act like a 1000 lbs of load at 22 mph while it is probably like 500 lbs at 11 mph and 250 lbs at 5.5 mph, etc.

The wedge should save gas in a big way if you are starting/stopping a lot and you are not a power turner!
Old    Gregg Vogt (blackandblue)      Join Date: Oct 2002       09-08-2004, 6:12 AM Reply   
Jacqui...salesmen will be salesmen. Don't let someone frighten you into choosing their product (if that's the case, the dude sucks...go somewhere else).
A good MC salesman will tell you that Malibus and SANs are great boats too and you need to see what works best for you. I know that Demos with salesmen suck. I would suggest you hook up with some of the regulars here and spend a full day on each type of boat you are considering.

I'd say go bu...but I love mine & that's just me Give each of the top 3 a fair shot...They are all great boats.

Then go buy a malibu...
(sorry couldn't resist one last plug...I really do love mine)
Old    angels5            09-08-2004, 8:05 AM Reply   
Thanks to all for all the feedback. My son and husband are dead set on Malibu. Will be testdriving/boarding this weekend, so I have lots of add'l info/questions to bombard the poor dealer with. We have a friend looking at MC, so we're trying to set up a back to back comparison.
Old    Jim Boggs (jimmyjam)      Join Date: Mar 2003       09-10-2004, 2:06 PM Reply   
Jacqui, I have a 2003 Wakesetter VLX with the wedge. Does it consume more gas with it deployed? HECK YES! Handling? Like a pig! Bigger wake? It may make it a little bigger, but with 4 or 5 people, stock ballast and shallow water (under 15 feet), it does firm the wake up and gives you additional "pop". In deeper water with 5 people or more, I don't bother because it makes the wake too steep and washy. Plus I get better gas mileage. I would reccomend you get it as an option because you can always take it off if you don't like it. It's much more expensive to add it on after production. I think for an optimum wake on the Malibu you need to add at least 240# in the nose with sand or lead and an additional 120# in the back (next to the engine). Primo is to remove the hard tanks and install additional bladder bags in the rear and up in the nose. If you have the cash, buy a MC for better quality boat.
Old    martini            09-10-2004, 2:55 PM Reply   
greg- i'm a salesman, and i resent your "demos with salesman suck" comment...contrary to other salemen in the industry, i really do ride! i was a
rider well before i ever was a product specialist.

i always recommend that the buyer take there time and try all the differnt boats...

i also wakeboard for them and offer to pull them...

i always have ropes and vest's on hand,i even will lend my set up out if neccasary...

any good salesman would do the same...

becareful what you spray!

not all salesman suck!
Old    Gregg Vogt (blackandblue)      Join Date: Oct 2002       09-11-2004, 7:45 AM Reply   
Fair enough Pete...
Not all salesman suck...but you said it yourself "contrary to other salemen"...This tells me that you know that you do not represent the typical salesperson...which is cool & I dig that. But the typical salesman (and the typical sales experience) was what I was aiming at because more than likely that is just what most people get. So let me rephrase my previous statement...I know that unless you demo a Correct Craft with Pete Martini, your demo will probably be less than everything you could ever possibly need.

Better?

Look, in my opinion, it's just nature and nobody is at fault here. Salesmen have a job to do, so everyone has their guard up to some extent during a sales demo. That's where the suckage begins. There is usually a push (or at least a little pressure) to make a decision. Even if the pitch from the salesman isn't made, during the demo the prospective buyer is constantly aware that it may be coming. With that there is an air of suspicion hanging over every word the salesman utters...cause it is his JOB to SELL that boat. Remember the saying "caveat emptor" - "let the buyer beware", well it extends to boat buying as well as anything else. Unless you want to tell me that salesmen do not lie...or that salesmen do not "bend" the truth. Ever heard the phrase "get it in writing"? There's a reason for that.

Pete, I'm in marketing, I understand "Spin" and what that's all about. I have learned that you should not believe everything you read (sorry if I offended any writers) and I as a Photoshop user, KNOW that you should NEVER believe everything you see (sorry to all photoshop users). This includes movies (sorry to all the offended movie makers) cause I know what can be done with CGI. I will also be so bold as to include the news too (sorry journalists), because what is told (or edited out) is a decision made my humans and editing by definition means you are not getting the whole story. Thus you only see exactly what another human wants you to see.

Riding with friends will give perspective to the sales pitches and let you experience first hand the functionality of the craft in a real life setting...and that is something that a salesman cannot do. That was really my point, although I dont mind arguing this portion of my comment.

I have a few more points supporting test driving your friend's boat: With salesmen, there is usually a limited time on the water. You aren't packing everything you would normally pack for an "real" outing so you wont really know what works or doesn't work for your normal needs. If you have kids and or friends you may want their opinion but most salesmen get distracted with too many people on the boat. I can go on...if you want.

As a consumer you have to investigate, from every angle, from every possible resource (which is why this discussion started in the first place)

Pete, It's just nature. Test driving and buying a car...sucks. Inspecting a house for purchase...sucks. (unless money doesn't matter to you, then you can just buy another if the first purchase doesn't work out)

On a positive note, I'm glad that there are salesman like you who try to make the best of a difficult situation. Bravo.
Old    angels5            09-11-2004, 8:52 PM Reply   
Actually test drove the Malibu VLX & MC X10 today. Took out 4 adult males, 2 who went boarding, 2 adult females & a 9 year old and I'd have to say both reps did well considering the number of questions being fired at them.
Old    Levi Cress (levi)      Join Date: Feb 2001       09-14-2004, 8:12 AM Reply   
I drove a fully loaded and wedged '05 VLX and I was pretty impressed w/ the performance when wedged. It seemed to handle better than a few years ago model. But I can't say I've logged a lot of hours driving on either. And I really liked the wake.
Old    matt_from_nc            09-15-2004, 3:55 PM Reply   
i have a malibu 21 xti witch has the engine in the middle and you would expect its wake to be smaller than a v drive but with the wedge its got a really nice size wake with good shape
Old    ripvanbl            09-15-2004, 4:04 PM Reply   
jacqui, did you make a decision after the test drive? What were your thoughts on each?
Old    angels5            09-15-2004, 6:32 PM Reply   
Still deciding. Malibu VLX had a better wake, better warranty, nicer looking, Mfg plant is in CA. Had the titan tower on it, which seemed to rattle a lot, could have been installation. MC, my husband liked the dash set up better, mfg is in Tenn. MC from what I hear may be better made, but if the Malibu has a better warranty, it evens out.

If I go Malibu it will most likely be the 05 VLX, which is what the rest of my family wants. The MC dealer in my area still has a lot 04 X10's avail that he's willing to deal on.

Either way, I don't think we can go wrong no matter which boat we choose.

I still want to look at the Sangers. I have a friend who has a Sanger he's had since 93 and we use the heck out of it every summer, kids, adults, teenagers, etc. and lots of them, and it is still in great shape for a boat that is 11 years old.

We're probably going to start working numbers this weekend. From my point of view it'll all come down to the deal I get for the quality of boat I am buying.
Old    Ken (ghostrider_2)      Join Date: Aug 2004       09-15-2004, 10:31 PM Reply   
just my .02 but both MC and Malibu are mass producted unlike Sanger which are not. I spent the entire summer on all 3 boats (lots of friends) with MC your paying mostly for name and advertising, Malibu top notch (cant go wrong)boat just bout 10k more than the Sanger. Sangers V215 put out an amazingly rampy wake, smooth ride, all the creature comforts of the Malibu but not mass producted. Think of the not buying a car that was built on a monday or friday type thing!
Old    Lucky Charms (lchamaschuk)      Join Date: Feb 2002       09-16-2004, 9:03 AM Reply   
Jacqui, the Titan tower is solid. Ours does not rattle at all, and I've heard the same from a lot of other VLX owners.
Old    bigj            09-16-2004, 9:57 AM Reply   
I also looked at M/C and Malibu among others. The M/C dealer also tried to tell me it was a better made boat, Although they couldnt back it up with a decent warranty. I actually saw far better quality in the Malibu. Also went to the Malibu factory and took a tour, It was a very educational experience to see how this boat was put together. Needless to say, I went with the Malibu with Illusion X tower instead of the Titan, Although the Titan did seem very solid like Lucky said. No opinion on the Sanger, Didnt even look at them.
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       09-16-2004, 10:03 AM Reply   
Wake wise the VLX will destroy the X-10 any day of the week. The X-10 is a Maristar 210 that was designed as a luxury option for the open water runabout owner. Whereas the VLX is designed from the hull up to be a great wake for riding. I rode behind an '05 VLX the other day & it was awesome. With MC you do pay a lot for advertising & rider salaries. They both make a great boat but there are legitimate alternatives including Sanger & Supra that also offer loads of performance. All BS aside, you will never go wrong with a Malibu.
Old    martini            09-16-2004, 10:34 AM Reply   
greg- sorry it took so long to respond...

and your points are well put!

your correct about salesman in general, and the sales experience...it's just difficult to be placed in that average joe "whats it going to take to get you in this boat today" catogory...

thats not how I operate...which might be a negative if this were a job interview...my product and warrenty speaks for itself...

thank you for the acknowledgement...and best of luck out there!
Old    Chris C (cboom12)      Join Date: Jul 2004       09-16-2004, 12:06 PM Reply   
jacqui-
Just alittle input-our MC dealer and our bu dealer are owned by the same people and a salesmen of all people, at MC told me that they are both made about same as far as quaality. So for what its worth you really can't go wrong. Also, though I hear it's a very good boat and I'm not tryin to knock it. I recently looked at the sanger and if you compare apples to apples it is not nearly as equiped as the Bu or MC.Though it may not be a 10 grand difference my opinion was that as far as standard equipment and niceties the sanger was a little cheaper looking. I can't speak on performance, I haven't ridden in the sanger yet. Just my .02
Old    d_rock (d_rock)      Join Date: Jun 2003       09-16-2004, 1:23 PM Reply   
If its worth anything, I would definitely demo every model that you are remotely thinking about. Before I purchased my boat I demo'd MC, MB and Tige. I was excited to be in all of them regardless of the pros and cons of each.

It certainly is interesting to listen to what each salesperson/dealer personnel has to say about the other manufacturers. I like the approach of pointing out why a particular product may work best for my needs vs. knocking other's manuf. processes, qualities etc. At the end of the the most important thing to me was wake, and I enjoy my boat for that.

I think dealership would be more important to me than where the boat was manufactured, since most service issues/problems begin by going thru the dealer.Good luck. Any boat on the water is better than nothing at all.
Old    martini            09-16-2004, 1:55 PM Reply   
well put mr. quick...

how was your purchasing experience? and where did you end up buying from????
Old    d_rock (d_rock)      Join Date: Jun 2003       09-17-2004, 10:04 AM Reply   
Mr. Martini...

my purchase expereince was great. Other than having to travel three hours one way, I couldn't have asked for a better transaction. The salesman that helped me get into my boat was knowledgeable and very low key, which is quite the opposite from the other dealers that I was working with.

I figure if you are going to drop 50K+, you have already done your homework. I was looking for someone to FACILITATE my purchase, not steer me one way or another. After the demo, I knew what I wanted. That's why when it comes time to sell and get an '07 Super, I will be making the now 7 hour drive to CCC in Corona. Great shop, great boat.......
Old    martini            09-17-2004, 11:06 AM Reply   
Duran-

thats a very inspiring sales story! i'm pleased to hear your sales experience was a pleasant one...

-thank you for the information, i hope to see you on the water sometime soon!

Reply
Share 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 1:14 PM.

Home   Articles   Pics/Video   Gear   Wake 101   Events   Community   Forums   Classifieds   Contests   Shop   Search
Wake World Home

 

© 2012 eWake, Inc.    
Advertise    |    Contact    |    Terms of Use    |    Privacy Policy    |    Report Abuse    |    Conduct    |    About Us