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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive > Archive through August 27, 2003 > Archive through September 24, 2004

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Old    Ryan Rantz (airrantz)      Join Date: Jun 2004       08-18-2004, 9:35 AM Reply   
I am wondering what people thought about these boats. They look awesome, and I have seen a few for sale recently, however I haven't heard much about their wakeboarding performance, reliability, etc. I am curious from those who own or have ridden behind. The 609 looks like a crossover boat and the 696 looks like the wakeboard edition however it is still a direct drive.
Old    svfara            09-02-2004, 11:42 AM Reply   
I don't know much about the 696, but I own a 609.
It is an awesome crossover boat.
It's great in the course for slalom, but put some weight in it and wow! Very nice wake
here's a pic, 75ft line, 21.5mph


Svfara SV609 wake
Old    Salmon Tacos (salmon_tacos)      Join Date: Jan 2003       09-02-2004, 12:08 PM Reply   
Gee, that wake looks world class. I wonder why? ...







Anybody know the story? Those hulls look WAY too similar to be coincidental.
Old    Jason Pribyl (skibum69)      Join Date: Aug 2004       09-02-2004, 12:16 PM Reply   
maybe svfara is the one who stole one of MC molds out of a dumpster years ago.
Old    Salmon Tacos (salmon_tacos)      Join Date: Jan 2003       09-02-2004, 12:23 PM Reply   
Wow, that really happened? Interesting...

The 609 is a bit smaller (-11" length/-5" beam) than the X-2/205V though. Did Mastercraft ever make a slightly smaller boat with the exact same hull design?
Old    Ryan Rantz (airrantz)      Join Date: Jun 2004       09-02-2004, 12:37 PM Reply   
wasn't the X-5 a smaller X-2/205V hull. It does look a lot like a Mastercraft hull and I had heard those rumors. I knew the X-5 was discontiunued by MC maybe because of lack of sales for such a small boat. Maybe Svfara bought rights to that hull. Does the 696 match up with any MCs?? X-30 perhaps??
Old    Salmon Tacos (salmon_tacos)      Join Date: Jan 2003       09-02-2004, 12:48 PM Reply   
I couldn't find any pics of the 696 out of the water but from what I could see in the pics that I saw, it didn't really look like a MasterCraft hull. This one's just uncanny though.

Now I'm going to have to go find pics of the X-5...
Old    Salmon Tacos (salmon_tacos)      Join Date: Jan 2003       09-02-2004, 12:57 PM Reply   
Alright...I just saw some articles and pics of the Sportstar/X-5 and the looks and dimensional specs match up exactly with the 609.

I think you nailed it, Ryan.
Old    Ryan Rantz (airrantz)      Join Date: Jun 2004       09-02-2004, 12:59 PM Reply   
Yeah I heard the Sportstar/X-5 throws a nice wake when weighted a couple people on the board have one. If that is the case who cares if Svfara has the same hull so long as it throws a good wake. I wonder what the fit and finish is like, the boats look really good in pictures. Also what's up with the name Svfara I first saw that and thought they were a European boat manufacturer. Not dissing on the name it just seems odd for a boat.
Old    Ryan Rantz (airrantz)      Join Date: Jun 2004       09-02-2004, 1:05 PM Reply   
The 696 lines almost look like a Malibu. Maybe a 23 XTi???
Old    svfara            09-02-2004, 1:21 PM Reply   
I talked to the factory about this issue and they insist that the hull is their own design, but I have to agree, it sure does look similar.
The fit and finish is exceptional, very tight and a pretty cool interior layout.

I'm pretty sure the 696 hull was designed by Svfara, doesn't look like anything I have seen. Definitely a similar interior layout to the XTI though

As for the name, I was reading thru some of their literature and supposedly they derived it from an italian word for global?
(you would think when picking a company name you would want it to be easy to pronounce?!)
aah well, either way, throws an awesome wake!

(Message edited by svfara on September 02, 2004)

(Message edited by svfara on September 02, 2004)
Old    Lance (uga33)      Join Date: Jul 2003       09-02-2004, 1:30 PM Reply   
Whose power-plant do they use?
Old    Ryan Rantz (airrantz)      Join Date: Jun 2004       09-02-2004, 1:38 PM Reply   
Lance-Eric's has a Mercury 5.7L in it. Check out their website if you're interested they seem to be pretty cool boats I really like their interior colors. Need to make a V-drive though even though the 696 looks to have a ton of room. Eric-why are you selling yours??
Old    svfara            09-02-2004, 1:38 PM Reply   
They use Mercury.
Mine has the 350 MAG MPI, plenty of power for the small boat. It's very quick!
Old    svfara            09-02-2004, 1:42 PM Reply   
Ryan: I'm selling mine only because of some personal things going on... I have only been able to put 29 hours on my boat this year (and the majority of that was me out alone breaking it in)
I can't justify keeping it at this point.
Hopefully in a couple years I can get another.
Old    Salmon Tacos (salmon_tacos)      Join Date: Jan 2003       09-02-2004, 3:09 PM Reply   
"I talked to the factory about this issue and they insist that the hull is their own design, but I have to agree, it sure does look similar."

Not just similar...identical (to the Prostar/X-5, not the 205V/X-2)! Even the dimensions are the same, down to the inch.

I think it's actually a bonus though. I'd rather have a hull design that was the result of MasterCraft's years of development than one that was designed from scratch by an upstart.

The fact that the factory denies it makes me want to know more about this mold theft story though!

Eric, your boat looks sick. I love the colors and the pattern.
Old    Jason Pribyl (skibum69)      Join Date: Aug 2004       09-02-2004, 5:28 PM Reply   
as far as Svfara goes, if anybody remembers the boat buyers guide from this spring svfara limits there production to so many boats a year to keep a tight control on quality, I don't remember the exact number but could look it up. Can't say first hand on quality though no svfara's anywhere near WI
Old    absolutofft            09-02-2004, 7:41 PM Reply   
Strange that they are now saying that the hull is their own design because I definitely remember the svfara guys saying it was a mastercraft hull a few years ago at the vancouver boat show. Their factory is in kelowna, british columbia and it is extremely small. I wouldn't have noticed it only I pulled off the road to do a pee and noticed all of these svfara boats sitting out the back. Then I walked about around a bit and saw that they actually made the boats there.

However I am 100% sure that I was told they use a mastercraft hull. You have a good eye to notice that salmon tacos.
Old    svfara            09-02-2004, 7:48 PM Reply   
Salmon Tacos, thanks! I love it too, just wish I could get out more!

I am getting curious about this mold too.. Jason, is there any truth to that story?

It does look the same, are there any certain dimensions I can measure on the hull and compare to the Prostar/X-5?
Anybody have a Prostar/X-5?
Old    Jason Pribyl (skibum69)      Join Date: Aug 2004       09-03-2004, 5:07 AM Reply   
I can't say the story is 100% true, but from what I heard from another engineer at mastercraft is that they did have a mold stolen, out of a dumpster. I don't for certain if the x-5 mold got sold, I can try to find out.
Old    svfara            09-03-2004, 6:06 AM Reply   
Jason, yeah, try to find out whatever you can I guess...

I've got to assume that if in fact Svfara is using a Mastercraft hull, they sold them the mold with provisions that Svfara could not market it as the same hull?

If it was truly stolen, I would think Mastercraft would have all types of lawsuits against Svfara.
Old    zboomer            09-03-2004, 6:48 AM Reply   
Wouldn't it be super easy to "steal" a hull design? Just buy/rent a boat, remove hardware from bottom, hoist it up, lower down into some clay-like material to get an impression of the bottom, make your own mold off it. Doesn't seem that hard.

Old    Chris White (ccwhite)      Join Date: Jul 2004       09-03-2004, 5:51 PM Reply   
And if they did steal it, arnt they a canadian company? So it would be like companies in china making fake golf clubs.

Old    Luciano Grimblat (luchog)      Join Date: Jun 2002       09-03-2004, 6:58 PM Reply   
did I read "steal" a hull design???
check what's going on here in argentina....
doesnt this one look familiar to you?
Old    Jason Pribyl (skibum69)      Join Date: Aug 2004       09-04-2004, 6:20 AM Reply   
wow, if you look at the tower, it still has the x-series logo on the cross member
Old    Jon (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       09-04-2004, 8:29 AM Reply   
But it has a closed bow. Why would they go to and steal everything off of a boat including the tower and not make an open bow. I guess imitation is the purest form of flattery and stealing. I bet there will be a lawsuit on this one
Old    Mike O'Callaghan (greenpinky)      Join Date: Apr 2004       09-04-2004, 1:05 PM Reply   
Yeah Chris, just because a Canadian wakeboat company exists, it must be the same as a Chinese company making crappy golf clubs. I just don't see your analogy.
Old    Salmon Tacos (salmon_tacos)      Join Date: Jan 2003       09-04-2004, 3:23 PM Reply   
He was just saying that there are companies in China making copies of other companies' golf clubs and getting away with it; and was wondering if such immunity would be enjoyed by a Canadian boat company engaging in similar behavior.
Old    Chris White (ccwhite)      Join Date: Jul 2004       09-04-2004, 4:33 PM Reply   
im fairly sure also that the bussiness that sfvara is doing (if they did steal anything) would be such a small matter that MC probably doesnt even notice it... for now
Old    Chris Anthony (cla17)      Join Date: Mar 2002       09-06-2004, 1:30 AM Reply   
Hmm, MasterCraft threw some molds in a trash can????? Molds are HUGE and heavy with the supports they build into them for production boats. It is possible they took them to the dump and they were stolen but out of a BIN, even out of the largest construction bin would be a near impossibility. And why would you take broken molds? They warp and crack over time, to the point where it is no longer viable for the company to repair them, the company then retools from a fresh plug(boat replica) and makes new molds that will last them for another 100 boats or soo. It is very odd the exacting similarities to an X-5 though. I'm on the line for more info :-)
Old    Chris Anthony (cla17)      Join Date: Mar 2002       09-06-2004, 1:31 AM Reply   
O yeah, anyone ever find more info on E.O.S and their exact Toyota replicas?
Old    Luciano Grimblat (luchog)      Join Date: Jun 2002       09-06-2004, 6:28 PM Reply   
it is a closed bow because it the hull the've used as a model was a prostar's
Old    svfara            09-07-2004, 8:01 PM Reply   
Does anybody have more info about the Svfara SV609 vs. the Mastercraft X-5/Prostar?

I'd like to compare measurements of different features on the hull
What year Mastercrafts would I compare to?

Anybody got an X-5/Prostar? willing to take some measurements?

What's the standard weight setup for the X-5/Prostar?
Old    Tom Barnard (tlb)      Join Date: Feb 2003       09-07-2004, 8:51 PM Reply   
My understanding is a Patent is only good in the U.S.A.
There are very few World or International Patents. Overseas companies can make whatever or copy whatever they want.
Old    Salmon Tacos (salmon_tacos)      Join Date: Jan 2003       09-07-2004, 8:55 PM Reply   
That would be irrelevant with regards to the Svfara question though since 1. a hull shape isn't patented (how would it be protected then?) and 2. Svfara sells boats in the U.S.

Eric,

I think you mean the X-5/Sportstar.
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       09-07-2004, 10:16 PM Reply   
The hull might not be patented but the design will be copyrighted. I would be suprised if the highwake proboat wasn't a joint venture with MC.
Old    Chris Anthony (cla17)      Join Date: Mar 2002       09-08-2004, 1:03 AM Reply   
The law that protects most marine design is a federal reg that prohibits hull "splashing". This basically protects against a company simply turning over an existing boat and making a mold from it. This reg also deals with stylistic elements in its finer points. The ski and wakeboard industry is just a blip on the screen of federal regulators but if someone took a copy of an x-star with like interior and tower, Mastercraft would have an easy time confiscating that companyís molds and seeking retribution. Iím guessing that either Svfara isnít BIG enough to worry about yet or they changed the hull/deck/interior enough to skirt the law??? Companies donít copyright their hulls or decks, they copyright phrases that describe them, ie: diamond hull, convex V, ect. In very rare cases things are patented, but it is VERY difficult as most hull tweeks have been used for decades in one form or another. I canít think or a single complete hull patent out there. You can patent: TAPS, THE WEDGE, Steering controls, ballast systems, anything that can be drawn down to a single innovation. I think that MasterCraft is a great company that has done A LOT for the sport and inboard boat design. I hope that Svfara isnít riding their coat tails, as has been indicated here, because they look to be really nice boats with great interiors and a lot of cool features. It might be time to drop an e-mail to Svfara and MaterCraft for some inside scoop :-)
Old    Chris Anthony (cla17)      Join Date: Mar 2002       09-08-2004, 1:08 AM Reply   
Hmm, all we really need is for Eric to find an X-5 in MA to park his next to and take some measurements. Once side by side, similarities and differences will be easy to pick out. Who knows Svfara may have just designed a good boat that ended up looking a lot like an X-5.
Old    jude (macdaddy)      Join Date: May 2004       09-08-2004, 7:10 AM Reply   
I am not the smartest cat out there, but did not Svfara come out about the time that M.C. droped the X5 wich as i know was just a older prostar with a ballest and towere. couldent it be possable that while Svfara was designing there boat there were searching for a tried and true hull design. As far as we I know small mistakes in hull design can add up to alot of money (Epic's Chine lock issue). NO i really don't think a mold was stolen out os the dumpster. But it is very possable that M.C. could have sold the CAD program of there older prostar to Svfara. just my 2 cents
Old    Trash (trash)      Join Date: Jul 2001       09-08-2004, 7:13 AM Reply   
I also own a Svfara. My friend onws a PS197 and was remarking how similar the hull shape is in the back and front. There are some differences (i.e exhaust port area is molded different). At some point in the coming weeks when both boats are on the trailers at the same time we were planning on doing a full a/b comparison.

Trash

P.S I talked to Svfara about this also (directly to Jeff Harder) and he swears up and down it's not a Mastercraft hull.
Old    Ryan Rantz (airrantz)      Join Date: Jun 2004       09-08-2004, 9:47 AM Reply   
your PS197 won't be the same hull I don't believe. The old Sportstar/X-5 is the similar hull if not the exact same. I agree with Jude on this one I wouldn't be the least bit suprised if MC sold Svfara their mold for the X-5 because they were planning to discontinue it and as part of their agreement Svfara was allowed to call it their own "design" so long as interior elements were different, etc. That would make the most sense why MC wouldn't care about this issue and file a lawsuit.
Old    Jason Pribyl (skibum69)      Join Date: Aug 2004       09-08-2004, 4:25 PM Reply   
Ryan, I have to agree with you on that one, because someone can move things like exhaust holes because you cut them out of a finished shell anyway. Regardless is Svfara bought a mold or not, I have heard through the wind they make pretty darn high quality boats. As far as finding anything out all I could get out of people at MC is it a rumor that a mold was stolen, maybe an urban legde?
Old    Chris Anthony (cla17)      Join Date: Mar 2002       09-09-2004, 12:46 AM Reply   
Hmmm, the plot thickens... I would be really suprised if MC sold any of their designs. I'm sure they would but it would cost A LOT O dough. It is doubtfull Svfara could pony the dough as a new company. Anyways, do any of you Svfara folks have some pics of the interior and helm/dash lay out we can compare?
Old    svfara            09-09-2004, 6:31 AM Reply   
There's a bunch of pics in my forsale ad:

http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/8/185490.html?1094574477

But the interior is not the issue, that is completely different... I think the only question is whether it's the same hull as the X-5 or not?

One interesting note, for 2004 Svfara says they tweaked the current hull to make it even better.
Regardless, they still deny ever using a Mastercraft hull.

I just need to find an X-5 around here so I can compare side to side...
Old    Chris Anthony (cla17)      Join Date: Mar 2002       09-09-2004, 2:01 PM Reply   
Wow, they do not mess around when it comes to their interiors huh. That is really just heads and tails above what all other boat builders are doing interior wise. I wonder what this company did before they started making boats? Or is it just a new start-up?
Old    Ryan Rantz (airrantz)      Join Date: Jun 2004       09-09-2004, 3:04 PM Reply   
I wouldn't say heads and tails above what all other boat builders are doing because we don't really know what grade of vinyl they are using and what dash material but I do like the gunmetal grey color of the interior. It's too bad they don't make a V-drive version I'd be interested to see what they would do with the open layout of a V-drive. I'm sure people are against the walkover bow of the 609 but it's such a small boat to begin with it looks like the made the bow smaller to open up the main portion of the interior some. Good looking interior time will tell if the fit and finish holds up though.
Old    Matt (pierce_bronkite)      Join Date: Jul 2003       09-09-2004, 3:12 PM Reply   
Eric, why are you selling your boat?
Old    Antbug (antbug)      Join Date: Jul 2004       09-09-2004, 3:30 PM Reply   
In Erics pics they even use the same speakers as the 03 04 mastercraft. Now it has to be a MC hull
Old    Jason Pribyl (skibum69)      Join Date: Aug 2004       09-09-2004, 4:31 PM Reply   
that step over bow reminds me of the Malibu sportster from a few years ago.
Old    svfara            09-09-2004, 9:34 PM Reply   
Chris: Svfara was a new startup about 5 years ago, but I guess the guys that started it have been into boat building their whole lives and are avid skiers.

Ryan: The vinyl is top notch, actually has a really cool feel, almost like leather. (some have described it as reptilian?) Dash is solid fiberglass as far as I can tell. No rattles...
So far everything is holding up perfect (granted I only put 29 hours on it)
I would love to see them make a V-drive too!
They definitly have room in the line up with only 2 boats 19'8" & 23' , a 21' would fit in nicely!

Pierce: basically selling because I unfortunetly don't have time to use it...

Ant Bug: The Clarion seperates are not bad for stock speaks, not sure that alone makes it a MC hull , unlike the mastercraft though, every seat has a speaker angled at it (somebody was thinking)
(subwoofer and amp make a big difference too!)

Jason/Ryan: The stepover bow was actually a plus for me living in the Northeast as it can get quite chilly sometimes, this setup completly blocks any wind, and the seats are low enough to sit completely below the windshield. (I guess they built it with the mind set of the great white north) -plus it provides for a more structurally sound boat.
Jason, I think you're thinking of the Malibu Response LX?, I've never seen a sportser with that type of layout -but I could be wrong...
Old    tattoobling            09-10-2004, 7:11 AM Reply   
Driver's Seat - 1999 ProStar 190
Throttle Stick - 1999 MasterCraft
Motor box - 1999 ProStar 190, but this one's covered in vinyl (or snakeskin)
Deck of boat definitely not MC, X-5 had a half stepover bow, Sfvarfara bow and trunk resembles Malibu sportster/response LX as does the windshield.
As for stereo, aiming speakers at individual passengers achieves less than optimum stereophonic ambience.

SvarFvara beam -85" X-5 beam - 85"
SfbrettFarvra Length - 19'8" X-5 Length 19'6" (but hell it's easy to fudge 2" on the length of a boat)

I don't know, there are no original ideas left in the world but that boat looks kinda cheesy for $38,000.
Old    Trash (trash)      Join Date: Jul 2001       09-10-2004, 7:16 AM Reply   
Eric stole my thunder on this one...

The walkover bow is a definite plus up here in Canada. On the cold nights (and days in my neck of the woods) nothing beats the insulation from the wind like a hunk of fibreglass and windshield. The heater outlets make the driver/passenger area quite warm and comfortable while underway.

I was planning on doing a +/- article comparing the Svfara with a mastercraft X7 (other boat I frequent)...Maybe this weekend I'll get around to it and post it up here.

Trash
Old    Chris Anthony (cla17)      Join Date: Mar 2002       09-11-2004, 1:04 AM Reply   
I think the Svfaras look really cool. I would love to see one next to an X-5 just out of curiosity but would love to ride behind one just to see a new style boat. Just from the pics I can tell these guys have put a lot of effort into their interiors and passenger comfort. I just hope they don't get caught up in this whole stolen hull line, as legal fees can easily down a company with great ideas. If any of you crazy Canadians want to drag one down to San Diego, you'll have a place to stay, great people to ride with, plenty to drink, and gas duckets galor :-)
Old    Luciano Grimblat (luchog)      Join Date: Jun 2002       09-12-2004, 8:21 AM Reply   
I think that you have to change the boat design in a 30% and you wont be breaking any laws
Old    Chris Anthony (cla17)      Join Date: Mar 2002       09-12-2004, 7:09 PM Reply   
But does the deck count in that 30% range, I know for patents its more of a 10% to 15%innovation range. Check this link for more info:
http://www.wiggin.com/pubs/advisories_template.asp?ID=152634822000
Old    derek boyer (toyotafreak)      Join Date: Sep 2003       09-14-2004, 10:41 AM Reply   
Just wrong. Sorry.

Dudes, in boat/hull design there's HUGE room for improvement. If you're in the boat business and you can't come up with an idea on your own, you should just go buy a Subway franchise where all your recipes will be given to you and mandated.

Gimme a friggin break. I love my Toyota, but them friggin EOS bums STOLE the design to make a crappy replica in the lowest quality method possible, and either MC sold the design and won't admit it, or Safulva outright STOLE it (just because you discard tooling does not mean you yield rights to your intellectual property).

Dude, if I had the balls and skills to start a boat mfr. company, you could bet your culo that I'd have a design agenda that would have NOTHING to do with stealing someone else's design. It's not like we're designing the next turbofan - come on, there's probly only been 100 towboat hulls designed, built and tested. Tell me there's no room for improvement.

Nephew, please.
Old    Cal (villageidiot)      Join Date: Feb 2004       09-14-2004, 11:17 AM Reply   
And how about another drumroll...? This Toyota Epic showed up on ebay a couple weeks back.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=63686&item=2488899 005&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

Notice the really strange decals/badging on the boat? Guess what -- Derek made a call on this boat, and turns out it is supposedly being "sold for a friend" by the very guy trying to push the EOS line, Jason something-or-other. Coincidence? Or was this boat stripped to make a carbon-copy of the Toyota -- for the EOS hull? (which, from the rub-rail down, appears to be 100% Toyota, and the layout identical from the rub-rail up...note even the swinging door in the walkway that was only on Toyotas).

Take another look at the Epic above, then take a look at EOS's website...(or wait for another one to come up on Ebay)

http://www.hydroswiftboats.com/cgi-bin/inclin?inview=B1-406&pid=406

Derek is right -- this is crap. Regardless of whether they are copies or not, why any boat builder would get into the market without having any innovative ideas is beyond me...
Old    derek boyer (toyotafreak)      Join Date: Sep 2003       09-14-2004, 12:19 PM Reply   
Hey, not trying to bash any Svfara owners, or that the boats are bad or anything like that. Just look back at all the positive comments about their build quality, the vinyl, etc. - this shows the company's got skills and wants to be known as a high quality boat mfr. Even the fact that they copied an MC is probly good for their customers.

Old    Cal (villageidiot)      Join Date: Feb 2004       09-14-2004, 12:20 PM Reply   
Ditto that -- my bashing was aimed at EOS.
Old    Chris Anthony (cla17)      Join Date: Mar 2002       09-22-2004, 1:08 PM Reply   
Man, I figured I'd get a good look at these Svfara boats at Surf Expo but they failed to show? Had an empty spot and everything, my friends said they saw some guys in Svfara shirts but I never tracked them down. Could they have backed out because of these discussions? Anyways, thought I'd have good dirt but nothing but thongs and cable parks for me in Orlando :-)

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