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Old    Leo Lasecki (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       08-16-2004, 5:18 PM Reply   
what is the point of the crook fins (or whatever they call them)? Looks like a gimmick.
Old    rypayne            08-16-2004, 5:19 PM Reply   
looks like someone will lose a finger
Old    Leo Lasecki (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       08-16-2004, 5:24 PM Reply   
its a good board for people who do tindy's
Old    andy zarlengo (colorider)      Join Date: Jun 2001       08-16-2004, 8:58 PM Reply   
It looks like a board designed to cut up the rope and chop fingers. I wonder if they are going to come out with special kevlar "grabbing gloves" I sure as hell would be hesitant to throw down a grab on a board that has metal blades stickin out of it
Old    Doctor Octagon (dococ)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-16-2004, 10:06 PM Reply   
Why is it that every time somebody tries something new in terms of design experimentation, some do-do has to immediately pop up and yell "gimmick!" I'm glad I was not on WakeWorld when they invented the Skylon, or the phat sack, or the non-stretch line, or the lace-up binding, or the cupped rail, or the Malibu wedge, or the... (etc.) Gimmick, gimmick, gimmick, gimmick... find a new word, for Chissake!! (Leo, nothing personal, bro. I'm sure you're not a do-do or anything close to it.)

Andrew, what? If you truly felt passionate for this sport, you would be willing to shed blood for it! Dude, you're so not core. I'm proud to bleed for wakeboarding. BTW, did I show you my new "Gator boards" tattoo? (Wanna see my old "Fulltilt" tattoo?) We must have BLOOD!! The more the better!! PASSION, DAMMIT!!!
Old    Doctor Octagon (dococ)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-16-2004, 10:17 PM Reply   
Hey, this gives me an idea! I'm going to introduce a new division of wakeboarding called "aggressive doubles" riding. Last man standing wins, sort of like a cross between roller derby and Roman gladiator games. Mark my words, this will be the last time wakeboarding gets relegated to the side lines during X-Games coverage!! We must have BLOOD, DAMMIT!!!
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       08-16-2004, 10:21 PM Reply   
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       08-16-2004, 10:23 PM Reply   
maybe o'brien doesn't believe in turned-down rails. you would think that the crook fins would do the same job as turned-down rails would.
Old    Tyler Hildebrand (ty540)      Join Date: Nov 2001       08-17-2004, 1:41 AM Reply   
It needs more fins.
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       08-17-2004, 2:45 AM Reply   


It needs more fins.

Old    lachlantait            08-17-2004, 6:40 AM Reply   
quit you whinging looks like a great idea, i'de say better than the byerly atleast it wont snap off and wreck the board
Old    andy zarlengo (colorider)      Join Date: Jun 2001       08-17-2004, 11:25 AM Reply   
Doc, I have designed the new wakeboarding battle axe. Floats and is easy to swing with one hand. Has 6 stainless spikes on the end for great penetration. Should look killer with the new board designs!!!!!!!!
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       08-17-2004, 12:11 PM Reply   
"Why is it that every time somebody tries something new in terms of design experimentation, some do-do has to immediately pop up and yell "gimmick!""

Exactly. I knew as soon as I saw the article that someone would be here today talking about gimmick gimmick gimmick. So predictable.

Old    Doctor Octagon (dococ)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-17-2004, 1:08 PM Reply   
Sweet!! Let's get ready to RRRRUUMMBLLLLLEE!
Old    toolfan (toolfan)      Join Date: Jul 2003       08-17-2004, 1:09 PM Reply   
it needs a couple zippers.
Old    Leo Lasecki (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       08-17-2004, 1:31 PM Reply   
Yall have yet to answer my initial question...what is the point of the crook fins??? Please dont say they will act as wings and make you fly higher.
Old    Jonathan Bélanger (tantrum20)      Join Date: Nov 2001       08-17-2004, 2:19 PM Reply   
why not?? isn't it what it's for??

I recon that it might be pretty scary to grab slob or melan with this thing... but still like the idea better than the Byerly shape... and still having the option of removing it is nice...

it should make the board bite so hard into the wake... but watch out for landings...

Old    greg (malibususpect)      Join Date: Mar 2003       08-17-2004, 2:35 PM Reply   
i bet it would make surface spins real hard with the crook fins on there, because from the looks of it, it would scoop water up over the board for some serious face planting
Old    Robert A (cocheese)      Join Date: Jul 2004       08-17-2004, 2:46 PM Reply   
where do we sign up for this King of the Wake?
Old    GettingOlder (magellan)      Join Date: Feb 2003       08-17-2004, 2:57 PM Reply   
I wanna play king of wake!

Can we set up a virtual game? I'll bring the sutchers.
Old    Robert A (cocheese)      Join Date: Jul 2004       08-17-2004, 3:08 PM Reply   
We could have different classes! "Temid" with boards only for those who have to go back to work on Monday. "Agressive" with knives and such for those who don't mind loosing a finger or five! And "Damn That Hurt" for those special few who used to torture baby kittins with fire works when they were kids!
Old    Shawn Wilson (wakestar8878)      Join Date: Oct 2003       08-17-2004, 3:38 PM Reply   
it needs a couple zippers.......

Too funny toolfan.
Old    Chris Johnson (team_o)      Join Date: Jun 2002       08-17-2004, 3:41 PM Reply   
We have been testing the concept for 2 seasons and have dialed the fin placement on the rail & the fin shape so that it's not there when you don't want it but bites when you need it.

I have been riding the production board for about a month now and can tell you that it doesn't catch edges and allows incredible control & balance on the water. I have been doing real slow surface 180's in 6" of wind chop trying to get the fins to catch badly on anything and they just don't.

The board cuts hard, pops huge, and the fins help you stomp landings, and won't cut your hands on grabs (you don't think we'd make them that sharp ).

Jonathan Nadolski has been riding the board for a month or so as well and is freaking going off on the board. We are totally stoked on the Valhalla and its Crook fins - it is the next evolution of board control on the water...
Old    slideit            08-17-2004, 5:08 PM Reply   
How does the ride differ from the new hyperlite "state" board
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       08-17-2004, 5:17 PM Reply   
oh yeah? put a regular joe schmoe on the board...i'm willing to bet he can get the fins to catch on 1" wind chop.
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       08-17-2004, 5:19 PM Reply   
My opinion is that people should reserve judgement until they ride the board. Some of this post is pretty funny, but until we all try the board we wont know how well it works. I bet that thing edges really hard and it looks pretty versatile with all the fin configurations.

People are always bagging the new ideas (personally I think the new byerly board is cool). I agree with doctor octagon, maybe we should all still be riding directional boards behind ski boats, or better yet, maybe we should all just start water skiing again.

Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       08-17-2004, 5:21 PM Reply   
How 'bout some regular joe UMALI. he, he. Ya'll crack me up
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       08-17-2004, 5:27 PM Reply   
damn, you're on to me, evan! i was actually talking about me!
Old    the not so naked chef (electricsnow)      Join Date: May 2002       08-17-2004, 11:03 PM Reply   
Doctor octagon, I think it's funny that you made that suggestion about wakeboarding doubles for more blood shed. Wakeboarding magazine made that suggestion (in earnest) back in 1997 because wakeboarding doesn't really have the same consequences that bmxing or skateboarding have. And the suggestion was inspired by the lack of enthusiasm for wakeboarding at the x-games.

Needless to say, they were laughed at. And launch magazine called them out on it.

Anyway, I thought it was funny that you made that suggestion...
Old    Doctor Octagon (dococ)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-17-2004, 11:47 PM Reply   
Chef, amazing!! You obviously have been around this stuff as long as me, and your memory is as good, if not better! I know EXACTLY what you are talking about, but I wouldn't have been able to recall the date. I actually wrote a long letter to (then) editor Tom James back then blasting him for that idea, which I felt to be asinine. At the time, I was relatively early in my graduate training, and I was working at a program to attempt to rehabilitate children with brain damage from traumatic head injuries, so I guess the idea hit too close to home. I never heard back from Tom James, and of course they never ran my scathing letter in the mag, but I did not care because that was not my purpose for writing it. Anyway, I was glad when that idea was quietly dropped.

Now, years later, I find myself sarcastically proposing a "contest" which is in essence a parody of James' original idea. I guess the difference is that he was serious, and I am just clowning around. How funny that I had forgotten about that whole thing! Thanks for reminding me and taking me back to the "good ol' days" for a moment. I am impressed with your history!

Old farts represent!!
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       08-18-2004, 12:01 AM Reply   
i, too, remember that article. but, at no time did i think he was serious.

doc, keep in mind...magazines are like message boards....more often than not, words are w/o expressions, so we can't tell whether the author's serious or not.
Old    paul (wakeme884)      Join Date: Jul 2004       08-18-2004, 12:18 AM Reply   
anybody have a picture or link to this new board. curious as to what it looks like
Old    David Williams (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       08-18-2004, 12:26 AM Reply   
Doesn't anybody visit the front page any more? :-)
Old    rypayne            08-18-2004, 12:33 AM Reply   
Paul, this is what you are going to do. Scroll all the way up to the top of page where you will see a strip going across your screen, above the discussion, which has the words boards, bindings, discussion, etc. To the left of board you will see the Silhouette of a home, click on the home. The third article from the top will say Obrien Valhalla and have a picture of the board. So there you go.

David, you got to it first, but i was in the middle of typing, so i posted it anyway
Old    Doctor Octagon (dococ)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-18-2004, 7:12 AM Reply   
Joe, while I believe that your comment certainly holds merit as a general principle, and I further appreciate you for offering your advice to me, all indications were that Tom James was very serious about this statement at the time that he made it (as Chef also pointed out). This was not a typical "article," per se, but was the editor's note to open up that months' issue of the mag. Tom was making a public statement regarding the format that the well-known Wakeboarding mag "team challenge" contest would follow for the coming year, his acknowledged purpose for making this statement was to alert folks to start practicing under this new format, and he further stated that he had already begun talking it up around Orlando. The X-Games that year had featured a "doubles" skateboard vert ramp exhibition, which had been received very well by the TV programming decision-makers (whereas wakeboarding had been largely ignored), and James' column reflected (in his own words) his solution to make wakeboarding appear more exciting to the non-wakeboarding TV audience. Unlike our parody above, he was not thinking in terms of injuries and bloodshed, and therein lay his flaw, as he apparently had not thought the thing through very well, nor considered all the potential ramifications, particularly non-pro level riders might begin imitating this format on a daily basis (helmets were worn almost never back then). I'm certainly not intending to knock Tom James as a person, I just thought this idea was a bad one for a multitude of reasons, and I guess it turned out that many others did too. I don't see the need to engage in any debate about this, really, but I appreciate your input. It was just me being silly, Chef pointing out the irony, and then me being impressed by his memory and my lack thereof (which made it even more ironic given my response to James years ago). Anyway, hope all is well in SoCal and that you are getting some time behind the boat.

Keep the humor coming, ya'll!
Old    Robert A (cocheese)      Join Date: Jul 2004       08-18-2004, 8:31 AM Reply   
All joking aside, I like it when companies put their a#@ on the line to improve and inovate the sport! If it works or not, it is still a cool idea!
Old    J Jakober (jjakober)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-18-2004, 8:40 AM Reply   
Back to the original topic, the Valhalla!!

I rode the board a few weeks ago and I can assure you that if you have any wakeboarding skills, the Crook fins will not cause you to catch an edge or do a facial.

As far as the Crook fins being sharp and dangerous, they aren’t sharp at all. The edge of the fin is rounded over and is no more dangerous then the edge of your board.

The time I noticed the Crook fins was when I put the board on edge and headed for the wake. It really allowed me to burry the edge and cut hard without the board wanting to break loose.

I also noticed the fins when I would over rotate tricks that usually result in a butt-check and the board sliding out. I remember on one toe side back roll I got more air then usual and over rotated and I thought for sure the board was going to slide out, but the Crook fins on my heel side edge stuck in the water and allowed me to stop the rotation and stand it up.

As far as the ride of the board, I would say if you like a fast board with great pop that tracks well when on edge, is loose when flat and lands really soft, then check it out.

Old    the not so naked chef (electricsnow)      Join Date: May 2002       08-18-2004, 10:31 AM Reply   
Yeah, I have to agree with doctor octagon on this one. I definitely felt that tom was being serious about the wakeboarding doubles event. Blood and carnage is "what people want to see" when they're watching skaters or what have you (or to be more gentle about it, I guess they want to see people fall?)

Anyway, he was talking about how falling in water wasn't that x-treme, but decapitating your friend with a wakeboard rope is...and it's sure to get wakeboarding more tv time and exposure!!! (ha, the last part was sarcastic, but the point I'm trying to make was that I felt tom was serious, and the whole idea was in reference to the fact that seeing someone fall in the water isn't that "crazy." And I'm not the only one that interpreted it as such because launch made fun of them too.)

And you're right, it's not a knock on tom james as a person, but the idea left little to be desired.

Original topic...original topic...I think the fins look interesting. It's actually a crazy looking design...I'm not saying it's good or bad (I actually don't really care) but seeing those little water fins on the side--the sea turtle-esque wakeboard makes me think of all of the wild designs that once came from skateboarding. Simply OUTRAGEOUS designs!

Whew, I'm so emphatic, I can't even help it...

And I actually have to correct you once doctor. It's actually "her" memory. But outside of that, your post was succinct and did a great job of capturing the essence of the article. Now, MORE HUMOR!
Old    Robert A (cocheese)      Join Date: Jul 2004       08-18-2004, 10:57 AM Reply   
Back to the all out battle royal! We could make a killing selling pay-per-view! What ya think Doc? Any Sponsors want to participate?
Old    Thane Dogg (thane_dogg)      Join Date: Jun 2002       08-18-2004, 11:09 AM Reply   
X-games? BAH! If we turned wakeboarding into American Gladiators then it would definitely get more air time.

J Jakober - what's the point of having a fin with a blunt edge?

It looks like it would give the same effect as a hooked rail (really really hooked).

Call me cynical but it just doesn't look practical.
Old    Doctor Octagon (dococ)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-18-2004, 11:20 AM Reply   
"Her" memory?? Thanks for the correction, Chef, my apologies!! I should have known, you sound way too smart to be a guy. I'm doubly embarrassed because I made this same error once before in regards to Phantom. I'll try to be better about learning from my errors. Damn, fellas, looks like we need to step it up in the "brains" department!
Old    offaxisspin900            08-18-2004, 11:36 AM Reply   
Hey wuts up guys Jonathan Nadolski here.

I wanted to take some time out to explain the idea behind the 2005 Obrien Valhalla.

Everyone is always wanting to get more board for their money well lets think... here is a board that has the option to be four boards in one. You can ride the Valhalla with all six fins (which is how I choose to ride it) for a board that really tracks well and stays on edge and only releases when you want it to. Next, you can ride the board with the glock .5 center fins out for a less tracking board but, still for people who like a grippy type board. Then, you can put the glock .5 center fins back on and take the crook fins off to fit those people who like a little traction on the water. And last but not least, all the fins can come off for those people who like almost no traction at all. The choice is toatally up to the consumer.

Secondly, in helping Obrien design this board and taking into account all of the quote "horrible things" that can come out of a board that has soft aluminum fins coming out of the sides of the board, I spent a lot of time and worked plenty of angles to test the fins and the board. I made sure the fins were not too long so when you put it on a hard edge the nose fins definately will not touch the water (tested with the hardest edge I could on an S-bend). What about the dreaded face plant. Well for this the fins actually are cupped out at least a half an inch away from the board before going down into the water, and actually the only way the board and rider will face plant is if the mistake is only done by the rider. The board will not face plant out of nowhere. Also in reagards to the sharpness of the fins. The fins are more dull than a butter knife and I would be very proud of anyone who could figure out a way to cut themselves with the crook fins.

Thirdly, the consumer has shown that a cooler looking board is more popular, this board has cool graphics which dipict norwegian mythology and it has chromed out everything. When it came time to come up with the graphics I have always wanted a wakeboard to have more snowboard type graghics. So Obrien took the liberty to have an artist from Toronto hand paint each graghic onto a canvas and then the canvas was then scanned onto the board. If you look closely you can see that it looks like it was hand painted onto the board. Everything we do at Obrien is done to fit the consumers wishes as much as possible. The 2005 Valhalla not only has this but rides well too. The hull of the board is similar to the 2004 Demented but I think tracks a hint better and has better pop. I have noticed this after riding the board for a couple of weeks now. The board is what we like to call a progressive continuous which is a continuous rocker that flares a little at the nose and tail to give a little more than your standard continuous. This allows the water to flow correctly on the bottom of the board unlike a 3 stage which breaks up the water. I mean you wouldnt see a 3 stage rocker fish would you. There is only so much I can tell you about this board but the rest is up to you and only an experience for one's self. This board is surely made for everyone due to the as some people call "gimmick". Some people may call it a gimmick, I call it "The Valhalla" an awesome board that will open doors for future boards and take us well into the 21st century of wakeboarding. Why dwell on the past. Give it a try I know you won't be disappointed.
Old    J Jakober (jjakober)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-18-2004, 12:00 PM Reply   

Whats up man?? This is Jason, I met you last week before Charlie hit. We were supposed to fly out Friday night but they shut down the airport just before our flight. How did you guys make out?? The OWC looks like it took a real beating.

Maybe with a few more postings like yours and mine we can get people to take off the blinders and see what O'Brien is all about!!

Take it easy,

PS: Tell Darin thanks again for the pull. I just wish I could have seen at least one of you guys ride!!
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       08-18-2004, 12:00 PM Reply   


Damn, fellas, looks like we need to step it up in the "brains" department!

speak for yourself there, buddy!
Old    offaxisspin900            08-18-2004, 12:20 PM Reply   
Hey Jason wut up man! Yea I left Friday at noon so I made it out in time and went up to the Muskoka Militia Crew Challange. I won best trick over the Buick gap and our crew, team fun, placed second under team get er done, which included rusty m, andrew a, ricky g, and chis l. We all called them team sandbagger because it was supposed to be a pro am challange. Anyways you would have loved it up there, everyone rides Obrien and loves it. Thanks to Ralph Geronimo the Obrien sales up there are the best in the world. Talked to Darin on Sat. evening and Lake Mary Jane is still at her finest, but I haven't heard much about O Dub. I don't know if you have my number but you can get it from Chris. Hit me up just to chat or whatever.

Old    David Williams (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       08-18-2004, 12:28 PM Reply   
Johathan, thanks for taking the time to come on and explain it further. I know that our readers really appreciate it!
Old    Leo Lasecki (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       08-18-2004, 12:31 PM Reply   
So far J Jakober and Jonathen Nadolski are the only guys who answered my intial post. Thanks guys. I guess if it costs the same thing as the 'demented' then it wouldnt be a gimmick because you can still ride it like traditional wakeboards. Those crook fins seem like they would help on not sliding out on landings, but how easy do they release?
Old    J Jakober (jjakober)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-18-2004, 12:56 PM Reply   

I didn't notice any issues with the Crook fins hanging up when leaving the wake.
I have been coming up short on the rotation on my switch blind 180's and I thought it might be my board hanging up on the wake, when I rode the Valhalla I had no problem pulling it so I feel safe in saying that the Crook fins release just fine.

Old    offaxisspin900            08-18-2004, 12:57 PM Reply   

I was really concerned with the release myself. Due to the placement of the fins and the shape, the fins still release at the top of the wake. Not before and not after the wake but where your board is supposed to release it's fins. This way you don't get cheated out of your pop or beginning your trick.
Old    andy zarlengo (colorider)      Join Date: Jun 2001       08-18-2004, 12:58 PM Reply   
Yes, thanks for the descriptions and the hands on details. I am really curious to hear what the average umali,, uh Joe has to say about the performance of the board.
Old    offaxisspin900            08-18-2004, 1:04 PM Reply   
Just to make it clear to all I would never allow a board to be made that would jeopardize a riders safety.

Old    wsrmatt            08-18-2004, 1:17 PM Reply   
id be emabarresed to ride such a stupid looking board. makes wakeboarding look like a gimmick. i cant wait till surf boards have fins sticking out of the top deck and out the side of the board. plus i heard youll be more acrobatic when your in the air with these new fins. i dont know bout you guys but my board edges just fine and i do all my tricks in the air so who cares about stupid wierd fins. come on normal boards can edge hard enough without having wings and its not like its gonna help. the byerly is another stupid design but way better then obriens.
Old    Leo Lasecki (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       08-18-2004, 1:18 PM Reply   
Would the crook fins release early? Sometimes I throw my tantrums/scarecrows way too soon and dont fully ride up the wake. Would this board help stop me from doing this since the fins lock into the water?
Old    Thane Dogg (thane_dogg)      Join Date: Jun 2002       08-18-2004, 1:19 PM Reply   
dude, listen to yourself.

Old    Doctor Octagon (dococ)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-18-2004, 1:21 PM Reply   
Nice post, Matt. Very mature and intelligent sounding. How old are you, eleven?

Joe, case in point...
Old    wsrmatt            08-18-2004, 1:47 PM Reply   
so doctor octagon, how do you think these ear fins are gonna help you? lol.
Old    Leo Lasecki (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       08-18-2004, 1:53 PM Reply   
Definately give something a try before you bash it.
Old    wsrmatt            08-18-2004, 1:55 PM Reply   
looks like obrien is slowly catching up with hydroslide. if you drew a smily face on the board itd be a full guy with ears and all watching you while you ride. and byerlys new wakeskate fin seems stupid to me also. it looks like it would be hard to do 50/50's and doesnt it drag in the water on both sides while your riding. especially when your ollieing wouldnt the nose fin suck under the water.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       08-18-2004, 2:12 PM Reply   
Thanks for posting Jonathan. Very cool that you and Dallas both have made appearances here.

Matt, if you only knew how ridiculous you sound.

Old    wsrmatt            08-18-2004, 3:49 PM Reply   
ok jRod maybe i sound stupid but im just stating my opinion. i think the new obrien board is straight up stupid. maybe it does help you edge harder but it seems like normal boards do that just fine, or at least from what ive seen and its not like its gonna help you in the air on tricks. haha. and J-Rod can you explain to me then whats up with the new byerly wakeskate fins. they look like they would be hard to break loose for any surface slides, hard to do anything up on rails or kickers, the only good thing i can see is that maybe doing nose or tail slides it can lock you in to make it look more like a skate grind just like the 4 trac.

(Message edited by wsrmatt on August 18, 2004)
Old    offaxisspin900            08-18-2004, 3:51 PM Reply   

Sounds like on the tantrum you just need to keep your eyes on the wake a little longer. And as for the crow you just need to be patient for the top of the wake. That is really the only advice I can give you if ur taking off early. As for the fin release, I have spent a lot of time on the shape of the fin in the last season and the board releases along with the riders wishes. Meaning they respond to the rider.

Hey matt I respect your opinion, but you have not even ridden the board so don't go around saying the Byerly is better than the Valhalla. Because I am gonna tell you right now that 3 stage rockers are a hinderandce to your riding. So we can all sit here and talk about how a 3 stage cheats your riding and how that is a bad design.
Old    Thane Dogg (thane_dogg)      Join Date: Jun 2002       08-18-2004, 4:00 PM Reply   
whoa! 3-stage a hinderance? oh shnap.

yeah, I'm gonna have to, sort of, go ahead and disagree with you there.
Old    offaxisspin900            08-18-2004, 4:01 PM Reply   
This board was designed by consumer reports dude. I always hear about people complaining you can only have a board the way it comes, but with this board and I have stated this previously it's more bang for your buck. You have the option to ride it anyway you like. Just because I am a pro doesn't mean I am different I show the same loves and passions about our sport as the next guy. And your probably thinking that if we sell more I get more. That is untrue as well. No riders receieve royalties anymore and the sales of this board do not effect my paycheck, because of no royalties and I don't even receieve one. My interests are to best fit riders like me.
Old    offaxisspin900            08-18-2004, 4:04 PM Reply   
Well now the 3 stage only helps on a small portion of people, but for the most part a continuous board is better. I mean like I said in my review would you see a 3 stage rocker fish???
Old    Antbug (antbug)      Join Date: Jul 2004       08-18-2004, 4:06 PM Reply   
I'm no pro (actually far from one) but the 3-stage was no hindrance on me.
Old    wsrmatt            08-18-2004, 4:15 PM Reply   
ok offaxisspin900 i see your point and how its good to have innovation and im not saying the byerly is better than the Valholla board, i wouldnt ride either, in fact i was talking about the byerly skate fin. dude i guess im just confused. i dont understand how your fins respond to the riders wishes when releasing nore do i understand why youd want to ride a board that looks so wierd. who knows though, maybe skateboards will come out with bolt on ears(crooks) for skaters with big feet so your feet never hang over.
Old    offaxisspin900            08-18-2004, 4:16 PM Reply   
I didn't say it was on you, a lot of people ride a 3 stage well and like it but from someone who sits in a boat every day from 9 to 9 and watches the way people ride and from someone who has ridden a 3 stage. I can safely say that for the most part a 3 stage is a hinderance due to the breaking up of the flow of water on the bottom of the board.
Old    Thane Dogg (thane_dogg)      Join Date: Jun 2002       08-18-2004, 4:16 PM Reply   
what kind of fish are you talking about?
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       08-18-2004, 4:18 PM Reply   
I believe that 3 stage can be a hinderance, unless your wake lacks and you need the extra pop. But that's a pretty bold statement man. Most, okay, many of your competitors are riding 3 stage, and every year rockers get bigger. Are you saying that half the riders are going in the wrong direction with more rocker?

(Message edited by jarrod on August 18, 2004)
Old    wsrmatt            08-18-2004, 4:21 PM Reply   
I, wsrmatt 100 percent disagree with offaxisspinner900 also. i think three stage boards are good and im sure tons of people think the same. am i right? im probably wrong again. plus a bet slob grabs are gonna look sick with the crook in your hand.
Old    offaxisspin900            08-18-2004, 4:31 PM Reply   
Not at all man I totally respect a 3 stage all I am saying and I cant say it enough is the water does not flow correctly under the board so 3 stage tends to drag. But being a person who used to ride a 3 stage and switching to a continuous i can say that it can be a hinderance. Not to mention I heard this little bit of info from someone who has been around longer than all of us. Also, I cannot tell u how many people who have come to the camp on a 3 stage and left happier on a continuous. Just sharing a bit of info not meaning to piss anyone off.

And the fish I am talking about is any fish in the ocean. I dont think I have seen a fish with a flat spot.

But that is neither here nore there.

I am gonna go and I probably wont be on the discussion for a lil because i am in indy and i have some stuff to do.

So if anyone has anymore question in regards to the Valhalla my email is
Old    wsrmatt            08-18-2004, 4:34 PM Reply   
i wsrmatt again disagree with Jrod. i think three stage is sick no matter what your wakesize. personally id rather have a three stage on a larger wake over a continous if i liked them both the same.
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       08-18-2004, 4:37 PM Reply   


3-stage, "a hinderance..."


dude, i know you're trying to sell a board and all, but damn, no need to generalize just 'cause 3-stage didn't work for you.
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       08-18-2004, 4:38 PM Reply   


I dont think I have seen a fish with a flat spot.


'nuff said!
Old    biwwy            08-18-2004, 4:52 PM Reply   
I personally think the fish analogy is a poor one. Fish do not swim on top of the water; they swim through it.

I think it is a known fact that 3 stage rocker is not as fast. However, most people that ride it like the kick it gives you off the wake.

Its funny because most of the best riders pro shapes have a form of 3 stage rocker. Parks, Shane, Byerly, Watson, Harf, Watkins, Zane. The only two prominent names that I can think of that haven't are Murray and Shapiro.

Old    Shawn Wilson (wakestar8878)      Join Date: Oct 2003       08-18-2004, 5:00 PM Reply   
This is really getting good...

halibut.......I was thinking the same.
Old    cherryhottness            08-18-2004, 5:30 PM Reply   
get over it!
Old    Leo Lasecki (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       08-18-2004, 8:08 PM Reply   
Ok...I think everyone needs to chill. This board can still be ridden like a traditional board and is shaped after the demented. From what I hear, the demented is a really good board. If you think the crook fins are stupid, then you can take them off and ride the board like a traditional wakeboard. The fins are only a preference. If you like the way the board rides without fins, that is your preference. Just have fun guys.
Old    Shawn Wilson (wakestar8878)      Join Date: Oct 2003       08-19-2004, 9:46 AM Reply   
Leo whats with the sudden change of heart? After all you were the one yelling "GIMMICK" right off the bat.
Old    crowe            08-19-2004, 10:39 AM Reply   
Oh man, WW Royale Rumble!!!!!


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