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Old    kelownaboy            07-15-2004, 10:22 AM Reply   
Prevent them. Its amazing how many people get injured waking but yet it is so easy to prevent them. I am a very aggressive boarder and I go big. The worst injury I have ever had has been a torn stomach muscle. I ALWAYS preach PREVENTION. Wear a helmet, if you only need it once. I also wear knee supports...why? Because I have good knees and I want to keep it that way. Stretch your muscles, ALL of them. Cold muscles and ligaments snap on hard falls. Dont do tricks that are beyond your skill level.....yes push the envelope but trying a tantrum when you cant do a toseside 180 or clear the wake is reckless. I do not pull people behind my boat without a helmet or if they have not stretched. It might sound a little much but I am the only one who has hurt themselves behind my boat. I just think that prevention is the best way to clear up injuries. If you have good knees, wrap them up.....you will be amazed how much farther you can push yourself. I see too many people throwing safety out the window and then nurse a bummed knee for the next 8 weeks. I just wanted to post about prevention of injuries as opposed to how to heal them up. Lets think ahead !!!
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       07-15-2004, 10:31 AM Reply   
don't be fooled into thinking that you can avoid knee injuries by wearing a brace. any doctor will tell you that yes, you can still hurt/blow your knee even though you have a brace on.


quote:

Dont do tricks that are beyond your skill level.




bingo!

there are so many people that try this trick or that trick, and they're not even consistent on fundamentals! i understand the desire to have tricks under your belt, but if you're going to try them without knowing the basics, you'll end up hurt more often than not.
Old    Squid (twakess)      Join Date: Mar 2002       07-15-2004, 10:35 AM Reply   
Well said Joe.
Old    kelownaboy            07-15-2004, 10:40 AM Reply   
come on dude, thats not even close to the point that I am making, your comment is like telling me the sky is blue. A dislocated knee can come from a simple landing, you can rip your stabalizers by doing a sharp carve, it happens but giving your ligaments and knee structure extra support can help prevent impact injuries and tears that would normally not happen with added support. Waking is an extremely physically demading sport, to take that fact lightly will result in injury.
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       07-15-2004, 10:44 AM Reply   
it is precisely the point. you're telling people that by wearing a helmet, they can avoid head injuries. and by wearing a knee brace, they can avoid knee injuries.

in some cases, you're absolutely right. but helmets and braces do not prevent 100% of injuries. i've gotten a concussion wearing a helmet. granted, it probably would've been worse had i not worn one. and a friend of mine hurt his knee wearing a brace.

my point...wearing protective gear prevents injuries, but not all the time.
Old    kelownaboy            07-15-2004, 10:59 AM Reply   
Do you think stretching will prevent all muscle pulls or tears? Did I say that too? Does anyone really think that there is a 100% fool proof way to prevent injuries? Dude, I go big.....big air and cut hard and my stretchy knee supports do wonders. Does that mean I will never have an injury???? Yes, I am saying that by wearing the right gear and stretching you can prevent injuries. Who is the idiot that thought they would be indestructible? I think that was you. If you thought for a second that I was suggesting indestructability, then you just need an english lesson Joe.
Old    r_dub            07-15-2004, 11:03 AM Reply   
Full on football gear, some muscle relaxers and a budwiser, just so I dont get cramps. Nuff said!
Oh yeah, and a snorkel
Old    r_dub            07-15-2004, 11:32 AM Reply   
Hey Danny, dont let Joe get to ya. He's most likely pissed off everyone on this board at one time or another. But he's a good guy, he make's this board interesting at times.
But dont think Im going soft Joe! I still remember that Cincinnati comment, lol.
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       07-15-2004, 11:36 AM Reply   
dannny, read your initial post again.
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       07-15-2004, 11:36 AM Reply   
ryan, no, i'm not pissed off at all. i just call 'em as i see 'em.
Old    kelownaboy            07-15-2004, 12:19 PM Reply   
Joe, I think that hit to the head had more long term side affects than your doctor might have mentioned. To think that I in any way suggested that wrapping the knee will prevent 100% of injuries just tells a lot about your intelligence level. I think a re-examination of your cranium might be the thing we should be doing.....are you sure you had a helmet on or do you need some basic english grammar lessons?
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       07-15-2004, 12:32 PM Reply   
dude, why are you so bitter?

read your post again. while you're at it, take your own advice and take some classes on grammar.

(Message edited by dakid on July 15, 2004)
Old    mnboarder            07-15-2004, 12:37 PM Reply   
Hey Kelowna, you need to chill. You are the one who is obviously lacking in intelligence based on your overly defensive responses. By the way, a recent study showed that stretching before phyusical activity does NOT necessarily prevent injury.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/index.php?newsid=6880

As far as wearing braces and helmets.. If you fall the wrong way you are going to get injured regardless of whatever devices you use for prevention. Do they help? Maybe. They key is to be in good overall shape to begin with.
Old    r_dub            07-15-2004, 12:39 PM Reply   
And take your vitamins!
Old    toolfan (toolfan)      Join Date: Jul 2003       07-15-2004, 12:42 PM Reply   
......tussin?
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       07-15-2004, 12:43 PM Reply   
i think in some cases, helmets and braces help. but, a lot of times, they give the rider a false sense of security.
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-15-2004, 12:43 PM Reply   
Self-stimulation is the key.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       07-15-2004, 12:45 PM Reply   
Danny,

Many would argue that you're actually weakening your knees by keeping them wrapped while you ride. Part of maintaining strong tendons, ligaments, and muscles is done by using them. Exercising and stretching will unarguably reduce the risk, but by using braces on uninjured joints you could be doing more harm than good. Those areas need to be worked, not isolated from function and movement. That why physical therapy is motion and exercise intensive.
Old    r_dub            07-15-2004, 12:45 PM Reply   
Actually, Ive always felt that Flintstones work best for me.
Old    buergday            07-15-2004, 12:58 PM Reply   
spray some windex on them - you'll be fine
Old    mango (mango)      Join Date: Mar 2004       07-15-2004, 12:59 PM Reply   
go to the gym 5 days a week and don't pull out your ribs wakeboarding cause they hurt like hell.
GNC Mega Man Multivitamins
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       07-15-2004, 1:30 PM Reply   
I thought this thread was supposed to be about curing injuries, not preventing them.

I think the study saying that stretching is of no value is full of crap. However, I rarely stretch before exercising. Anyway I do think that stretching is an important exercise for healing injuries even if you don't engage in it for warming up.

I generally take a practice lap or two before throwing a bunch of tricks. There is no doubt in my mind that being stiff is an invitation for injury.
Old    Patrick (patrick)      Join Date: Apr 2003       07-15-2004, 2:12 PM Reply   
Sometimes I stretch to get to the back of the cooler for the go juice. I just got off Mega Man vitamins (on 'em for 6 years) and switched to Flinestones...
Old    shane (auto)      Join Date: Aug 2002       07-15-2004, 3:50 PM Reply   
no helmet, guess I will not be riding behind your boat, but it is your rules.
Old    Kirk Johnson (akdoc)      Join Date: Feb 2004       07-15-2004, 7:12 PM Reply   
Steve hit it on the head. Many studies have shown that stretching before exercise may actually make you more susceptible to muscle strains and ligament sprains. All the muscle needs to correctly function before exercise is a little blood. At the start of your run just make some nice carves in and out before going crazy, do not stretch a ton because that gets the actin and myosin filaments out of the optimal contraction zone.
Again, nothing will prevent all injuries. I'm out for 6 more weeks because of a Lisfranc injury to my foot. It is a tear in intricate ligaments in the midfoot. Crank your bindings down so your damn foot doesn't come halfway out.
Old    warlock00            07-16-2004, 7:45 AM Reply   
I tore my ACL wearing while wearing knee braces. The Doc. told me that could have been the reason for the injury. That the knee braces gave my knee a false sense of security, and that my knee could not react as needed, since I had the braces on, to prevent the hyper extension of the knee ligaments.

The main way to prevent injuries is to get all your muscles around the joints stronger.


that "go juice" stretch is a familiar one....
Old    Leo Lasecki (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       07-18-2004, 8:00 PM Reply   
exercise too. people who complain about knee, back, and arm problems never work those muscles out.
Old    reefhunter            07-18-2004, 8:15 PM Reply   
The little article that says stretching does not help is crap. Do a search about stretching you will find a hell of a lot more that says it does help.
Quote from that article: "He also added that the exceptions may be gymnasts and dancers. They require great flexibility and stretching could help their performance." I would think a nice session behind the boat would be the same if not more than a gymnast and/or dancer.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       07-18-2004, 9:24 PM Reply   
Another good preventative measure for you danny since you seem to have the utmost concern... buy more supportive bindings, I havent dealt with the splits but a binding designed for everyone and you going HUGE is not a good mix and is a good way to wind up with ankle problems if you ask me... but what do I know
Old    rick_james            07-18-2004, 11:17 PM Reply   
danny you have to be kidding around, at least i hope you are. You wont tow anyone that isnt wearing a helmet, your boat sounds fun to go behind. You have a better chance of getting hurt wearing all the crap becuase it makes you think of what can happen. Water hurts but not that much to where you have to wear a helmet. If your hitting sliders for your first time i would understand, i think your just one of those people who thinks a helmet will slove all of your problems. But i geuss sence you go "BIG" you need a helmet and knee braces...
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       07-19-2004, 7:35 AM Reply   
Actually that study doesn't show "that stretching before phyusical activity does NOT necessarily prevent injury". It says that they did not find evidence that stretching reduces injury. IOW, they claim that they found no evidence to substantiate anything.

I don't know about you guys but when I take a hard fall I frequently get bent outside my normal range of motion. And those are the falls that end up tweaking a knee or ankle. It also goes on to say that warming up helps prevent injury. Well isn't stretching a form of warming up?

I've crunched my spine several times after a bad landing off a flip or jump. Once I hurt my back in Nov and figured I would take a rest for the winter and let it heal. My back still felt bad three months later and I was concerned I hurt a vertibrate. I started doing stretching exercises and in the span of a few weeks my back was completely back to normal. Stretching improves flexibilty and helps in a number of ways. Nobody should put much faith in a report that is as vague and general as this one appears to be.
Old    missjade            07-19-2004, 9:33 AM Reply   
I ran track in college and we never stretched before practice because they didn't want our muscles and tendons to be loose for the workout, that makes you more prone for injuries. However, after, we stretched quite a lot to prevent stiffness and promote flexibility. Wakeboarding isn't exactly like running track, but I still stick with what I know.

The times when I see people injured on my boat are when people go out there and charge the wake without warming up, surfing the wake, carve in and out a few times. Take a slow progressive first cut and see how the pop feels. When comfortable, then go for it. I guess people want to impress and go out there and "go big" and then they just get hurt.
Old    Andrew (drewsmug)      Join Date: Jul 2003       07-19-2004, 10:30 AM Reply   
john anderson is confusing. if streching does not have evidence showing that injury is reduced then i think a safe conclussion would be "that stratching before physical activity does NOT necessarily prevent injury". anyways the facts are "as doctors have stated" that streching right before physical activity doesn't really help. but like it's been mentioned more flexibility will help. so what you are all forgetting is that streching is good just not needed RIGHT BEFORE physical activity. infact a doctor recommented that you should strech afterwards because your muscles are all ready warmed up and this will help with your flexibilty a lot more than streching right before wakeboarding.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       07-19-2004, 12:07 PM Reply   
Actually I think the statement "does NOT necessarily" is what's confusing. It doesn't say anything other than "we still don't know".
Old    B Poser (bbr)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-19-2004, 12:20 PM Reply   
I'm with warlock, I tore my ACL while wearing a Townsend brace that cost about 700 bucks. There was NO twisting involved when I did it, it happened as soon as I hit the water, and I did it doing something that I can do all day long, NOT while trying something new.
I am in excellent shape, and ride 3-4 times a week, at least before the accident. I still think the best bet is to work the muscles around the ligaments, and stretch AFTER you ride. www.westsidewakeboard.com
Old    Salmon Tacos (salmon_tacos)      Join Date: Jan 2003       07-19-2004, 12:46 PM Reply   
You know, I never hear anyone differentiate between stretching for flexibility and stretching just as part of warm up.

I always "stretch" before I play soccer, volleyball, etc. If I don't, I am MUCH more likely to pull something, tweak my back, or whatever. Now, by stretching, I just mean going through all the relevant stretches quickly, holding each stretch for only a couple of seconds, and pulling the muscles though their ranges of motion. This just seems to "get all the kinks out" and allow my muscles to work together more efficiently. My muscles and joints may experience these positions during my activity so I really don't feel like I've sufficiently warmed up by just running around. Jogging around gets my heart rate up a little and gets my blood circulating a bit more but I don't feel that it really does anything to ease my muscles into what they are about to experience.

Stretching to increase flexibility is a totally separate thing. There, you need to warm up first, you need to hold the stretches for a minimum amount of time, you might use that thing where you flex the muscles while stretching and then relax them, blah, blah, etc. If this the kind of stretching that they were studying--the kind of stretching that people are arguing about--then I agree that it is pretty worthless as a pre-activity exercise. I'm thinking, however, that we really might be arguing about two different things, i.e. the people advocating stretching are talking about my former definition whereas the study and the people who are supporting it, are talking about my latter definition.

True?
Old    Andrew (drewsmug)      Join Date: Jul 2003       07-19-2004, 2:36 PM Reply   
apparently what the new information says from doctors is that it's a myth to think that stretching prevented you from tweaking your back and stuff before volley ball. the data says this all happens just as frequently when you don't stretched. ofcourse i've also heard doctors say milk is bad for you and blah blah. but on a newer note i think there is a lot of mental preperation that goes into physical activites. so if streching is part of your pre-game warm up then maybe you should keep doing it to stay in the same mental state for all your games and wakeboarding. but i think i believe the fact that stretching before hand doesn't realy help you at all towards any immediate following activity.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       07-19-2004, 2:45 PM Reply   
I didn't read the CDC report but I read the posted link. If you read a little bit between the lines you might come to the conclusion that all the report says is that stretching before various sports activities isn't as important as some people claim it is. Which is good news for people like myself who don't do a lot of stretching before wakeboarding.

However the link also says that there may be exceptions for sports that require a lot of flexibility like gymnastics and dancing. While wakeboarding doesn't require the amount of flexibility as the aforementioned, I think it requires more than the average, both in the execution of tricks and frequently in the hard falls.

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