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Old    Thomas Deneka (tdeneka)      Join Date: Aug 2002       02-19-2004, 2:28 PM Reply   
What are the differences between the Canon Digital Rebel and the Canon D10 (besides about ($600)? They appear to have same CCD and major features. Without looking too hard I also saw that the fps was 2.5 vs 3. Is the metering/AF different?

I am trying to convince myself and my wife to move to digital SLR. I love my Elan IIe, but am starting to be convinced digital has finally come of age (in large part due t Bill J posts!). The only thing that I wish was better is higher fps. Thanks for any help!!

Old    Thomas Deneka (tdeneka)      Join Date: Aug 2002       02-19-2004, 3:03 PM Reply   
Nevermind on the differences. I just found a fairly useful article:

http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/digital/eos10d-rebel.html

Still could use some help justifying the new toy. Have done the film-developing cost thing (we burn through a lot of film for a few great pictures).

For those of you who have made the switch, any regrets getting away from film??
Old    BoRed (sdboardr99)      Join Date: Aug 2001       02-19-2004, 3:20 PM Reply   
Are you kidding? The results speak for themselves. Even many magazines that feature spectacular shots, like Nat'l Geographic, are moving away from 35mm.

I have the Digital Rebel and I'm happy with it. The D10 is nicer but wasn't worth the price difference to me. Of course what I'd really like is a 1D mk II but at $4500 it may be a while...

Old                02-19-2004, 7:31 PM Reply   
Basically they are the same camera but with different bodies and the dreb has a depleted feature set of the 10d. To me it isnt worth the price difference. http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos300d/
This page basically tells the difference between the two. There are a lot more customizeable things on the 10d but to me i would rather buy that F4L 70-200mm rather than spend it on those features but if u already have some nice glass, i say go for it. If i had the money to get it i would but i dont so i settle.
Old    Walt (Walt)      Join Date: Jan 2003       02-19-2004, 7:48 PM Reply   
I'm also thinking about buying the rebel but I would like to know what the bottom line will be after buying a zoom and memory card.
I'm not sure about what kind of zoom I would need for decent wakeboarding photos.


Old    BoRed (sdboardr99)      Join Date: Aug 2001       02-20-2004, 12:56 AM Reply   
walt, the first pics I took were using the 70-300 f/4.0-5.6 and they look great. You can pick up that lens from B&H for under $200. A 512MB compact flash card will run you about $160 or you can get by with a 256MB card for about $70.

So you'd have a complete setup for $1500 including the Rebel and kit lens, 70-300mm lens, and 512MB memory card (holds about 110 pics at highest resolution jpg). Of course you could add a camera bag and UV filter to the mix for another $50.
Old    Walt (Walt)      Join Date: Jan 2003       02-20-2004, 5:38 AM Reply   
Thanks Bill
Old    JR (jrichard)      Join Date: Aug 2001       02-20-2004, 9:11 AM Reply   
Another great lens from the Canon line-up is the 70-200 4L...but it's a bit spendier at $550-600. The difference in contrast, sharpness and saturation between the 70-200 and the kit lens is remarkable. Most forum participants over at dpreview that claim to have owned both lenses think there is also a significant difference between the 70-200L and the 70-300.

I have a D Rebel (with the kit lens and the 70-200), but if I were buying today, I'd wait until the Nikon D70 hits the stores to see if I like it more. It's priced between the D Rebel and the D10 and is less than the Nikon D100. It has a very similar feature set to the D100, which is to say much more than the D Rebel. Apples to Apples, it looks like it will be about $300-400 more than the D Rebl.

Keep in mind that the D10 is more than $600 more than the D Rebel because the D10 goes for +/-$1500 for body only and the D Rebel can easily be purchased for $900 with kit zoom lens (...the D Rebel zoom cannot be used on the D10). If you buy a D10, you'll drop another $300 for a lens.

Old    BoRed (sdboardr99)      Join Date: Aug 2001       02-20-2004, 1:30 PM Reply   
One thing to keep in mind is that the Nikon lenses are generally more expensive than a similar quality Canon.

I also have the Canon 70-200 f/4L and it's a great lens. I didn't suggest it since walt sounds like he's looking to spend the least amount necessary to get decent shots. Here's a couple of sample shots with the 70-300mm lens.




Old    Thomas Deneka (tdeneka)      Join Date: Aug 2002       02-20-2004, 2:35 PM Reply   
I have the 75-300 IS and have been very happy with it.

Well, I am convinced that I need a Digital SLR now. And I will keep my Elan since I won't get much for it. I think I will wait a little longer for the FPS to go up a little. More like 4-6.

Or come into some big money some how and get the D1 Mark II. 8.2 Mpixels, 8.5 FPS for up to 40 frames. Giddy-up!!
Old    BoRed (sdboardr99)      Join Date: Aug 2001       02-20-2004, 2:55 PM Reply   
Thomas, there is rumor of a 10D mk II to be announced later this year. Could be interesting!
Old                02-24-2004, 6:32 PM Reply   
i second that for the 70-200F4L but remember that the 1.6x crop factor wil make that 112-320. Dunno about the 10d i think they may wait until next years PMAs to announce that but you never know.
Old    Jonathan French (rock_n_boardin)      Join Date: May 2003       03-18-2004, 3:00 PM Reply   
Hey Best Buy has the 512 MB flash cards on sale for $109. Check out bestbuy.com
Old    BoRed (sdboardr99)      Join Date: Aug 2001       03-19-2004, 12:56 AM Reply   
Here are a couple of night shots that I took just messing around with my Digital Rebel while waiting at the airport. I had the camera on automatic mode and just hand held the shots.


Old    Jonathan French (rock_n_boardin)      Join Date: May 2003       03-19-2004, 9:37 AM Reply   
Wow, cool. Well I bought mine yesterday. Meesed around with it last night. I like it a lot. Can't wait to shoot some action shots. By the way the 512 MB flash cards are on sale for $109 and then you get a $20 rebate on top of that, dropping it to $89. At Best Buy.
Old    Jonathan French (rock_n_boardin)      Join Date: May 2003       03-22-2004, 10:29 PM Reply   
Ok, I was sitting around Sunday feeling a little bummed out for one major reason and a few small ones. A small one was that I was sitting in my house on a perfect day. 79 a nice and I wish I was on the lake. Anyway I figure what the hell, why don't I fire up the barbecue. Well by the time I was done, I had created a certified monstrosity!! I looked closer at it and I thought, break out the new Digital Rebel LOL But you know what? It taste damm good, I loved every minute of it. Though my arteries are not on the same page as me LOL well here you go, what do you think!!!???





Old    MAC (mac_attack)      Join Date: Oct 2003       03-24-2004, 9:41 AM Reply   
I think your gonna die of a heart attack!! HAHA!!
Old                03-24-2004, 9:55 AM Reply   
Hey guys i went to bestbuy and looked online but i couldn't find the 512mb flash card ANYWHERE!!??
Could you please tell me where you guys got it and when, so can figure out if i didn't look hard enough or if the special has expired
thanks
Old    Salmon Tacos (salmon_tacos)      Join Date: Jan 2003       03-24-2004, 12:50 PM Reply   
I ordered my CF card from newegg.com and had no problems. They had a good rating on resellerratings.com too. Here's a link:

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?catalog=68&DEPA=0&submit=property& mfrcode=0&propertycode=&propertycodevalue=4351,299 3

They have a Kingston 512MB card for $108, no tax, and free shipping.
Old    BoRed (sdboardr99)      Join Date: Aug 2001       03-24-2004, 6:21 PM Reply   
Amazon has Viking 512MB CF card on sale for $99, plus a $30 rebate. But hurry....

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00005MIS8/ref%3Dnosim/techbargainscom/102-6184054-1312118
Old    Peter_C (peter_c)      Join Date: Sep 2001       03-25-2004, 12:44 AM Reply   
So far the best CF cards I have used are the Lexar Pro series. I now have two of them along with a few other types. They are more money but come with a lifetime warranty, free data recovery, and are much faster shot to shot or in my case uploading mass amounts of sequence shots. I have checked around pretty extensively and found Amazon's prices to be the same or better than anywhere else. Ebay never has good deals. Although in order to find the good deal through Amazon I use a search engine and find it through a back door, which is usually good for another $30 savings.
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       03-25-2004, 6:56 AM Reply   
I'm glad I invested in fast CF cards and the Lexar Pro card does seem to be the fastest as Peter says. With the Canon 1d it really shows up when you don't blast through all 21 frames. The card recovers faster and you're reloaded and ready sooner. At least I've gotten to the point where I'm not cracking up everytime I let loose with a burst of shots with this thing and can try and get some decent shots! Those are great prices but anyone who's planning on getting a mkII (Bill) is wasting their $ on cards that small IMHO.
Old    Thomas Deneka (tdeneka)      Join Date: Aug 2002       03-26-2004, 7:03 AM Reply   
Bill J,

Do you have any more details on the rumor you had mentioned above regarding D10 mkII? I have researched the D10 more thouroghly and really like the added cusomiztion over the d. rebel. But if a new model is coming out, it might take care of a couple issues in the D10 (like FPS or E-TTL II stuff) or I could get a better deal on the D10 mk1 if I wait. Thanks.

(Message edited by tdeneka on March 26, 2004)
Old    BoRed (sdboardr99)      Join Date: Aug 2001       03-26-2004, 11:03 AM Reply   
No, I haven't heard anything else - everyone is just waiting for the 1D mk II and talking about that. But any announcement probably wouldn't be until the next big camera show in Sept. with availability either very end of 2004 or early 2005.
Old                03-26-2004, 11:20 AM Reply   
does it matter what type of cf card i buy for the rebel slr? I realize that some are slower (?) than others but what does that mean. I am planning on going to germany this upcoming fall and so i want to have a crapload of memmory either 512 or possibly 1 gig!!! How many pics of high res can i take with each cf ALSO RICH what do u mean by "blasting through all 21 frames and the card reloads faster?" and small IMHO

Also although i dont have a rebel slr yet im saving so i can buy 1 this summer, but this thread caught my attention and i thought it might be advantageous to but the cf now if it was on sale. Have you guys seen alot of these on sale or not really thanks a ton -travis
Old    BoRed (sdboardr99)      Join Date: Aug 2001       03-26-2004, 11:53 AM Reply   
Travis, it doesn't make a huge difference in performance with the Rebel since the camera can't do more than 4 picture bursts. There is a difference between the slowest and fastest cards but not as much as you might expect. The slowest cards will take longer to clear the image buffer if you shoot multiple shots and you can't take any more pics until the buffer is cleared - check out the CF performance database here http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=6007-6425

I buy the fastest cards available since it does make a big difference in transfer speed from the card to the computer with a USB 2.0 reader. And in the future when I upgrade hopefully the camera will take advantage of the faster card.

And 1G isn't a crapload of memory - it'll only give you about 400 pics in large/fine jpeg mode, less in RAW. I shoot large/fine jpeg and image files are from 2MB to 4MB (just depends on the subject), with average about 2.5MB.

I bought the Belkin media reader for my iPod so I can transfer images from my CF cards to my iPod for storage where I have about 8GB available. It's slow but it works really well.
Old                03-26-2004, 4:18 PM Reply   
GENIUS
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       03-26-2004, 5:27 PM Reply   
Sandisk makes a decent firewire based CF card reader, that's what I'm using.

Bill: I'm surprised you're not using the "RAW" workflow!

Travis: If I only shoot 10-12 frames at a time (this is on a 1d) I don't have to wait for the card to write if I have a fast card in the cam and don't go thru the whole 21 frame buffer. I say blast because life at 8 fps is a blast! Speaking of fps the 1d (and I'm sure the mkII also) allows you to set the max fps in high speed mode down from the default 8. I'm going to experiment with 6 & 7 fps because 8 is almost too fast!
Old                03-26-2004, 6:17 PM Reply   
FIRST OF ALL DO you guys mainly use your burst shots primarily for consecutive action shots (ie 360s rolls and what nots) also i primarily shoot on my canon gl2 (video camera)but am really getting into photographery more than i have ever! Although i do know some stuff, i dont know technical terms like iso and that crap and what are some good websites where i go and figure out what type of lenses i want based on what ill be shooting and just get an all around tutorial!!
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       03-27-2004, 7:59 AM Reply   
If you're proficient with the GL2 and understand it's manual modes then note the following:

video cam digital cam

shutter speed same function
aperature (f stop) same
Gain setting ISO speed setting
30 frames/ second 1 - 8 depending on model
rez: 720 X 486 way more depending on Mega Pix.

As far as lens equivalents go look up the effective range of the GL2 in mm in your manual. Basically you've got a builtin telephoto zoom lens that's 4.2-84mm f/1.6-2.9 (L-Series Fluorite Lens)*effective zoom for 35mm conversion (crop factor) 39.5-790mm. Part of that zoom range is digital (worthless). Some things don't equate well and lens equivalents are somewhat misleading between the 2. The best method is to hit your local camera store and look thru the cam you're interested in with the different lens.
Old    Thomas Deneka (tdeneka)      Join Date: Aug 2002       04-01-2004, 9:09 AM Reply   
Just ordered my 10D. Be here in a week!!!

Yipppeeeeeeeeee!
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       04-01-2004, 12:42 PM Reply   
"Just ordered my 10D. Be here in a week!!!

Yipppeeeeeeeeee!"

Congrats - check the AF on it when you get it. A lot of people are getting 10d's which don't auto focus properly. If you can focus the camera better than the AF then it probably needs to go into Canon to be tuned to your lens. And I'd highly recommend investing in Fred Miranda's 10d sharpening tools for Photoshop as 10d images straight out of the cam are inherently soft. You can increase default sharpness through the in-camera settings but PS with a plugin like the above will do a much better job with greater control.
Old    Thomas Deneka (tdeneka)      Join Date: Aug 2002       04-01-2004, 1:18 PM Reply   
Thanks. I had read about the focus issue before, one discussion made it sound like Canon got enough flak to fix it. If not, I'll try to part with it after I get it (tough though).

I had heard of a few plug-ins for PS. I will certainly see how this works!

I feel giddy like a little kid!
Old    Thomas Deneka (tdeneka)      Join Date: Aug 2002       04-16-2004, 7:19 AM Reply   
I broke down and got the 10D. I have been playing with it a little and so far I love it. Much faster focus than my film elan IIe. I miss eye control a little, but no biggie. We are going out this weekend (sub 40 water) so I will try to get some good pics to post.

Again, thanks to all for advice/comments/etc.
Old    BoRed (sdboardr99)      Join Date: Aug 2001       04-16-2004, 8:59 PM Reply   
Which lens did you get?
Old                04-17-2004, 11:36 AM Reply   
Hey Bill could you post a couple of pictures you have using your 70-200 f4L lens? I have a d-rebel and I think I'm going to get this lens and was curious about how the pictures would look with it.
Old    BoRed (sdboardr99)      Join Date: Aug 2001       04-18-2004, 4:05 AM Reply   
All of the riding pics in this gallery http://www.wakeworld.com/Galleries/Gallery.asp?GalleryID=163 were taken with the 70-200 f/4L lens, shot at 1/2000 @ f4.

Old                04-18-2004, 10:41 AM Reply   
Thanks Bill, I have made up my mind and now all I need to do is save my money so I can get that lens.
Old    Thomas Deneka (tdeneka)      Join Date: Aug 2002       04-19-2004, 11:13 AM Reply   
I'm using my lenses from the film body.

Have:
Canon 28-135 (3.5-5.6) IS
Canon 75-300 (4-5.6) IS

Have to wait on L glass, it took a lot of begging to get the 10D!!

Also picked up the HP 7960 printer. It does a really nice job for an ink jet. Especially B+W. I paid $200 for it through Gateway (usually ~$300).

No wonder I can't afford a boat!!!
Old                06-11-2004, 9:39 PM Reply   
Tom - as a 10D owner let me suggest the Tamron 28-75 f2.8 gold. It focuses much faster than the Canon Ultrasonics, is much cheaper and with the 2.8 lens opening more versatile. Ran me about 350.
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       06-12-2004, 8:39 AM Reply   
"Tom - as a 10D owner let me suggest the Tamron 28-75 f2.8 gold. It focuses much faster than the Canon Ultrasonics"

Matthew,

I found that general of a statement a bit hard to believe as the Tamron 28-75 is known for good image quality but slow focusing. The following quotes are directly from 1 recent thread on the dpreview Canon SLR lens forum:

"My biggest disappointment is the slow focusing. I knew it wouldn't be as fast as the USM, but it is much slower than I thought it would be. Now, I am not going to be using it for sports, etc, so the fast USM focus is not a huge issue, but it is nice to have."

"Jamie, how "slow" do you find it? My copy's quite ok in normal light but is unable to lock on quickly in low light"

"I have found this lens gives superb color rendition and is as sharp as I need. However, I found yesterday the AF is almost unusable in low contrast subjects, even in good lighting."

"My 28-75 has a hard time focusing in very low light, but otherwise AF is fine. It also has a tendency to front-focus if you aren't extremely careful about the AF points."

"good review, I have this lens and I agree with your statements. (the Tamron) Can't hold a candle to the 70-200 2.8L or the 24-70 2.8L."

"So your saying the tamron is over twice as fast to focus over the kit lens? I find that hard to believe as I heard people complaining about the focus speed of the Tamron"

These are all quotes from different owners of that lens. I will say the images people posted from this lens do look pretty good though.

Do you own any fast Canon L's? I have a feeling you wouldn't be making a statement like that if you did. I have the 70-200 f2.8L, 17-40 f4L, 135 f2L, 50 f1.4 and the new 70-300 f4.5-5.6 DO. I have tried various Sigma and Tamron lenses and the AF speed is usually the main difference when compared side by side to the Canons. Which Canon lenses are you comparing it too?
Old                06-12-2004, 9:15 AM Reply   
Rich - I realize that was blanket statement, but you missed a critical fact. This the Tamron XR Di (Gold) series. I tested it next to all the lenses from Canon in the shop and could tell a difference in focus speed. I also use a Canon Ultrasonic 75-300 which is not a fare comparison because it is standard EF line, but the Tamron I compared to top of the line Canon lenses which cost almost twice as much.

My neighbor is a professional photographer (I am just a hack) and he was so impressed he benched several of his Canon lenses and bought the Tamron. I have no experience with the cheaper Tamron lenses.
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       06-12-2004, 2:24 PM Reply   
The postings above came from the following thread:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1029&message=9095073

Which was about the Tamron you are talking about so I missed no critical fact. The Canon 75-300 is not a 2.8 lens and is famous for being a slow focuser. I don't know which other Canon lenses you "tested" or what lenses your neighbor has, I'm just pointing out that I don't think there are any aftermarket lenses besides the Sigma 70-200 that come even close to the AF performance of the L series (which are USM lenses) and based on the posts I've read on the forums I don't think this one is an exception. That being said the 10d is slow focusing to begin with so the differences may be negligible between the Tamron and Canons' on that body. Slow AF and a 1.6 crop factor will make any lens look good as I found out when I sold the 10d and went to a 1D. When you buy a fast L series lens you're paying for fast AF, IS (if it has it) and sharp images corner to corner wide open on a full frame or 1.3X sensor.

I think I will try the Tamron out though because I want a 24-70 zoom, the Canon 24-70 L is too darn big and I've spent enough $ already, so thanks for the tip! It does look like a good lens for the price.
Old    Thomas Deneka (tdeneka)      Join Date: Aug 2002       06-15-2004, 11:58 AM Reply   
Well, I started this thread, and it has come back up a little, so I guess I should post some pictures taken with my new toy . . .

These were taken at the STPR rally in Wellsboro, PA on June 5. It was a little darker than I had planned, which is why I cranked the ISO to 800.


Canon EF 28-135mm IS (1/40 f5.0 ISO 800 body flash)


Canon EF 28-135mm IS (1/60 f5.6 ISO 800 no flash)



Canon EF 28-135mm IS (1/500 f5.6 ISO 800 no flash)

I will post some wakeboarding pics when it is SUnny, Flat, AND . . . Warm!!
Old    Kung Fu Wake & Video (dcervenka)      Join Date: Sep 2002       06-15-2004, 4:41 PM Reply   
Thomas, nice pics.

In the first pic (car 54), is that the brakes glowin red hot?
Old    Thomas Deneka (tdeneka)      Join Date: Aug 2002       06-16-2004, 7:07 AM Reply   
Yes, brakes-a-glowin.

It gets even better during the night stages!! Next year I will bring the tripod for some long night exposures. And the big flash!

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