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Old    Jon (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       06-01-2004, 2:11 PM Reply   
I am new to this site and this is my first post. I have been wakeboarding behind my friends dads fish/ski boat and am wanting to get my own boat but am rather poor. I was wondering if anyone has knows anything about building a wakeboard boat out of an old boat. I am very handy am sure that i could restore an old boat but dont want to waste my time if i cant also make a boat that will perform well.
Please let me know if this is a good idea and if it is what old boats would be a good starter.
I might be crazy or might have a good idea.
Let me know what you think
Old    Karl De Looff (boarditup)      Join Date: Jan 2004       06-01-2004, 2:15 PM Reply   
A lot of guys have gotten the eighties CC Ski Nautique 2001 and made a great wakeboarding boat out of them. Well built, easy to work on, usually under $10k in decent condition.

Some of the old Chris Crafts make decent wakeboarding boats as well. They had a narrow stern and threw and incredible wake due to sheer weight and size. Inline 8-cylinder, flat head Ford. You will need a massive tri-axle trailer to support it.
Old    afxsguy            06-01-2004, 2:20 PM Reply   
im getting a chris craft either next weekend or the weekend after. its in florida, and im in onatrio canada. we got the thing for about $3000 canadian, it needs some work. its a 24' boat, with a v8... although its not a center driven inboard... the motor is in the back. this thing should be a sweet wakeboarding boat when im done with it

Old    Jon (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       06-01-2004, 2:21 PM Reply   
found an old mastercraft stars n stripes. It is only 19 long but extremely cheap what do you think about that.
Old    Jon (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       06-01-2004, 2:23 PM Reply   
i would love to see some pics of some of these old school boats that have been turned into sweet wakeboard boats
Old    walt            06-01-2004, 4:52 PM Reply   
I picked up a 1990 Bluewater Pro Am Skier (inboard) for 10K put a Monster tower on it for another 1K and it probably has a better wake than many high dollar boats out there.
I have also herd that the Naiti 2001 has a sick wake.
Old    walt            06-01-2004, 4:53 PM Reply   
The old Sangers are great too !
Old    Ricardo (gunz)      Join Date: Sep 2001       06-01-2004, 6:38 PM Reply   
New Old Skool.90 Sanger.
Old    Ricardo (gunz)      Join Date: Sep 2001       06-01-2004, 6:45 PM Reply   
Shawns Bu Euro F3.I think it's a 93 or 94.
Old    Ricardo (gunz)      Join Date: Sep 2001       06-01-2004, 6:52 PM Reply   
Walts 90 Blue Water.
Old    walt            06-01-2004, 6:55 PM Reply   
It looks funny with the swim deck off.
Old    Ricardo (gunz)      Join Date: Sep 2001       06-01-2004, 6:57 PM Reply   
Sparks 93 or 94 Sanger.
Old    Stephen Higgins (srh00z)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-01-2004, 7:10 PM Reply   
I bought a 1986 Malibu Sunsetter and it has a very nice wake, we put a tower on it, and unlike many other boats of this vintage, it is an open bow so there is more room, but I haven't weighted it yet. I have been told that a boat called a Century from the late 70's and early 80's are great, and like everyone else has said, Ski Nautiques with 2001 hulls are awesome.
Old    Jon (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       06-02-2004, 10:48 AM Reply   
These are awesome guys i am thinking about buying one of these old boats and totally customizing it with a custom made tower, paint job, stereo, weighting. I think that i can make a boat that is as cool as a 50000 dollar boat for far far less. And it will be something that no one has. You know what they say anyone with anykind of credit can drive a new one. But it takes a special person to pull off a cool old one.
Old     (fuel)      Join Date: Apr 2002       06-02-2004, 12:15 PM Reply   
Here's mine. Redid the stringers, floor, wiring, rebuilt engine, painted the top and stripe, redid the dash, built tower and board racks, etc, etc...

83 sn 2001

more 83
Old    Rick H (blastmaster)      Join Date: Aug 2001       06-02-2004, 12:18 PM Reply   
Any of you guys seen the old Keatons? Made in Sacramento Ca. from 1962-1979 by Jack Keaton. He was good friewnd of the Sangers. This was my first inboard when I was 16 and wish I still had it. They were called utilitys. Saw one in Sacramento Bee last week for $3500,, with a Chrysler 383 Magnum. These can be had cheap and they make incredible wakes.
Old    Jon (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       06-02-2004, 1:19 PM Reply   
Fuel you have a sweet boat that is exactly what i want to do. I am not trying to nosy and you dont have to tell me if you dont want but i was wondering how much you hav in your boat? If you dont want to advertise how much you have spent could you tell me how much you think it is worth? How long did it take you to finish your boat? You seem to be a very good builder. I love your boat. It is definetly more unique than everyone who goes to a dealer and picks up a boat.
Old    haterssuckcom            06-02-2004, 3:26 PM Reply   
Old    Jon (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       06-02-2004, 4:18 PM Reply   
wow that is an awesome boat and paint job i would love to see some more pics of it if you have any
Old    SANGeRIA (sangeria)      Join Date: Dec 2003       06-02-2004, 8:12 PM Reply   
Last time I checked Keaton was still actually building boats in Sac. Stopped by his shop off of Watt and 50 about 10 years ago and introduced myself. One heckuva boat...mostly jets these days but back in the day he made one of the first direct drive ski boats. I wish I had one too...
Old    Charles (chas)      Join Date: Feb 2002       06-02-2004, 10:45 PM Reply   
how do you guys like your Monster Towers?
Old     (fuel)      Join Date: Apr 2002       06-02-2004, 10:52 PM Reply   
Thanks Jon, I appreciate the compliments.

It took a long time and was a lot of work. I couldn't have done it by myself. Luckily, I have some good friends that did a lot of work, too. Especially, my buddy Paul. He worked his ass off. Anyway, we work pretty good together because two heads are better than one. One of us will sometimes catch the other's mistake or we can discuss the best way to do something.

We worked every weekend for several months, but we totally rebuilt everything. The boat was stripped to the bare hull. I have a couple of old posts that talk about all the stuff we did. Check out the archives.

Honestly, I have more $$$ in the thing than I will ever get out of it, but that is because I paid too much $$$ for it to begin with. If you bought one cheap enough, it would be well worth it, but only if you LIKE doing projects. It's like building a hot rod, you usually have more $$$ in it than you can ever get out of it. But the fun is in the building and in the pride you have in it afterwards. If someone is trying to do it to have a cheap but bad ass boat, I would suggest just buying a better boat than to fix one up (unless it's just cosmetic like carpet, upholstery, etc.)

I spent a lot of $ on the XL wood for it and a lot of $ on fiberglass mat and resin. Some things like the building the tower and board racks was really pretty cheap. Let me sit down and think about it and I can give you a rough estimate (excluding labor! With labor the boat is worth about 10 million!)

Check out those old posts and if you have any questions, feel free to ask.
Old    walt            06-03-2004, 5:43 AM Reply   
I love mine
Old    Jon (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       06-03-2004, 9:35 AM Reply   
that is awesome fuel. that is exactly what i figured you would say i was kinda prayin that you said that you built the entire thing for nothing. I do actually have great help my dad and brother could help me and we always have to have a project. We have built 2 hot rods, redid a truck, and now we are building our second mini chopper. So i know that you have to do it for the love of the project and the money. My friend found an old malibu sunsport for $4500 he said it was in good shape but i havent seen it. Was wondering if this is a good project boat.
Old    bigd            06-03-2004, 12:23 PM Reply   
Hey Fuel,

What was involved in re-doing the stringers?
Old    Jon (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       06-03-2004, 1:17 PM Reply   
i wrote malibu but it is a supra my bad
Old    haterssuckcom            06-03-2004, 3:15 PM Reply   
what year???the floor is prob. rotted on it. due to the way they made them ,the floor stopped just past the gas tank in the wasnt a sealed floor so water was able to get underside through the back of the boat move forward and rot the floors and stringer system.with me gutting the boat and putting it back together the actual cost was 3200.00 from the shop to replace the whole floor deck,foam & the boat is solid as has plenty of space and throws a fat wake.also those are vinyl graphics i created and installed myself.the boat is actually grey.good luck
Old    Jon (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       06-03-2004, 3:26 PM Reply   
Where did you get the vynal. big enough to make those graphics and then how did you finish them. did you seal them with something or what. oh i dont know the year of the boat.
Old    Jon (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       06-03-2004, 3:47 PM Reply   
Where did you get the vynal. big enough to make those graphics and then how did you finish them. did you seal them with something or what. oh i dont know the year of the boat.
Old    Ricardo (gunz)      Join Date: Sep 2001       06-03-2004, 8:39 PM Reply   
Chas,my tower and all the accessories are awesome!
Old     (fuel)      Join Date: Apr 2002       06-04-2004, 12:33 AM Reply   
Jon, if you've built hot rods and stuff then you shouldn't have too much of a problem rebuilding a boat.

Big D, redoing the stringers is a bitch. First, you have to pull out all the seats and the engine. Then you have to cut out the floor and tear out all the foam. You'll also have to take a bunch of measurements to make sure everything is right. Then you have to cut out the stringers. The stringers will be rotten, so oops there goes your pattern. Cutting them out is a little tricky because you don't want to cut through the hull. Then you have to grind everything down which is a mess (not to mention itchy). Then I went and got XL wood from Tige to redo it with. Next, you have to cut the wood so that they mate with the bottom of the floor. This takes a while because the hull is not flat in either the x or y axis. Also, you have to make sure the cutouts to get to the motor mounts are right. Then when all that is done you can fiberglass them in. The outer edges need to be routered so that the mat lays over it better (mat does not like 90 degree bends). I used mat because of it's multi-directional strength. Fiberglassing is messy, messy, messy. You have to get the air bubbles out, as well. I went back with four stringers instead of the two. It made the boat a lot stronger. Next I sealed it up with gelcoat. Then put in the AB foam. Next, we used XL plywood sheets for the floor (sn 2001s actually just had fiberglassed laid over the foam with a few pieces of wood to screw the seats to. They didn't have an actual wood floor). These are fiberglassed in and fiberglassed over. They are then gelcoated to seal the fiberglass.

I'm sure I left something out. It is a messy, pain in the butt process, but if you've got two people it's not that bad.
Old    Jon (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       06-04-2004, 10:18 AM Reply   
Well i am a little disapointed the boat that my friend saw was an 84 and it had a closed bow. It was in pretty good shape but i would really like an open bow. Anybody know the best old openbow boats for wakeboarding.
Old    Bob (bob)      Join Date: Feb 2001       06-04-2004, 3:22 PM Reply   
Fuel, my compliments. Most people couldnt or wouldnt overtake such a task. My old boat i did a lame job of redoing the floor and it was a beotch so i cant even imagine how deep a hole you had dug yourself into. When you had everything torn down, at anytime, did you have second thoughts or did you just power right through everything?
Old     (fuel)      Join Date: Apr 2002       06-04-2004, 7:38 PM Reply   
Thanks, Bob. When I first started the tear out, I knew it was going to be bad, but I didn't realize how bad. It was about 95+ degrees when we did the tearout and the fiberglass just ate us up. I was able to fiberglass in one stringer before the dead of summer and then it was just too damn hot. I waited until the coming winter to finish it. It still took us working on it every weekend and in our spare time until sometime in June or July. Thank God, for good friends. I couldn't have done it by myself.

There were times where I was like "WTF did I get myself into?" Looking back on it, it's not that bad, because I know what to do now. Going in blind like we were is a little more nerve racking. That's why I don't mind answering any questions.

Jon, I have heard that older Supra Sunsports put out a great wake (all the ones I've seen are open bow, but they may have made closed bows as well). I met a guy that had one and it was a big boat. It seemed a lot bigger than my '83 SN. Too bad it was teal and mauve. Man, what were people thinking in the late 80s early 90s? Anyway, I have heard a lot of them had problems with rotten stringers, but I do not know firsthand.

Malibu made the Euro f3 Sunsetter. I believe they made both open bow and closed bow versions, but I'm not positive. I 've heard it put off a good wake too, but again, I've never rode behind one. Most of them I've seen are teal as well. Ughh.

Mastercraft made the PS 205. It is supposed to be the same hull as the old X-Star (now the x2). Do a search for it.

Nautique came out with the Sport Nautique in 1989. If you could find one of those, you'll have a badass wakeboarding boat.

Those are all open bows, I believe. However, with the exception of the Supra and the Malibu, they may be more than you are willing to spend.

BTW, no offense to all the guys out there with teal boats.
Old    walt            06-04-2004, 7:57 PM Reply   
Jon, You might be better off looking around for a nice clean old boat that has been sitting in a garage (unused) for most of it's life instead of one that You have to rebuild from the ground up.
It's very possible to spend a lot more in the long run rebuilding a boat. My friend is a boat mechanic and He tells Me all the time about people that get boats for cheap or even free and dump thousands into them and how they end up being anything but cheap.
So You should really ask Yourself if You want to save $$ or Do You want a project.
If it was Me I would rather spend My time on the water than do a Big job like that. My two cents
Good luck
Old    Levi Cress (levi)      Join Date: Feb 2001       06-04-2004, 8:13 PM Reply   
I've got a '90 sport nautique and really like it.....I think in '93 correct craft quit putting wood in the floors and maybe the stringers?
Old    Stephen Higgins (srh00z)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-04-2004, 10:53 PM Reply   
I have a Sunsetter and I like the wake, the only other inboards I have ridden behind are 2001's, and the wake is very different, it isn't so harsh, mine is open bow and has alot of room. Keep looking for Supra Sunsports, I have heard they put off great wakes too and are open bow.
Old    Jon (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       06-05-2004, 7:11 AM Reply   
I know what you are sayin walt but i really enjoy doing big projects like this. i know you never get your money out of them but there is something to drving or riding something that you put your time and ideas into.
Old    walt            06-05-2004, 8:22 AM Reply   
When You find a boat take a few pics (before and after)...I would like to see how You trick it out.
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       06-05-2004, 9:04 AM Reply   
This is old school as I could find
Old    Jon (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       06-05-2004, 9:09 AM Reply   
Now i think that i have spotted a 94 malibu sunsetter euro f3. Does anyone know anything about these boats. It is quite a bit newer than i was originally wanting but it is pretty cheap.
Old    Ricardo (gunz)      Join Date: Sep 2001       06-05-2004, 9:43 AM Reply   
I you look in the pics of this thread,you'll see Shawns Euro F3.His boat is real nice.Runs great,throws a real nice wake when sacked,and has
a few upgrades on it.It's definetly a solid boat.

I know what your saying.If you build it,then you make it yours.When I got mine(90 Sanger)it was sound but not pretty.Since then I've upgraded,and redone things to make it my ride,with my own style.
Upgrades include:
New interior,copied from a 96 Sanger.
Stainless grab bars.
Tinted glass.
Added cup holders.
Netting for lotion,etc.
Stereo and amps/w sub.
Tower,board racks.
Hot and cold water shower.
accessory outlets.
We love this ride,only wish it was an open bow,but we can live with it.

Projects in the works:
2 battery set up.
Auto bilge.
Depth guage.
Old    Jon (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       06-05-2004, 10:06 AM Reply   
Sounds like a sweet setup. But the best part about the whole list is that ITS PAID FOR. Thats what i want. I dont know how you can justify buying a boat and paying for it for more than a couple of years. That is another good reason to build a boat. You can make additions when the cash comes in.
Sounds like you have a great boat and have just as much fun out on the water as the guy with the x-star. Right now my crew wakeboard behind a fish and ski boat that is 16ft long and has a 90hp motor on it that probably throws about an ankle size wake. But we still have an awesome time.
Old    Ricardo (gunz)      Join Date: Sep 2001       06-05-2004, 10:20 AM Reply   
It is what you make it.
I used to ride with a guy that had all the best stuff,yet he was the most miserable SOB I'd ever met.

We we're sitting in a cove,when a group of guys came in.They we're in an old tri hull glastron.They looked like they were having a blast out there.He proceeded to make fun of there boat,what a POS and stuff like that.

I told him,the old,baby crap yellow
/green,17 ft,tri hull,just like that,is what I had spent some of the best summers of my life on at Lake Berryessa.

It's not about what you got,it's about how much fun you can squeeze out of it.And we had an awful lot of fun on that old boat.It's still in use today by his son in law,and his kids.

I'm off to Walt's to help install a shower in his ride.

Peace Out.........
Old    Levi Cress (levi)      Join Date: Feb 2001       06-05-2004, 10:42 AM Reply   
Kevin.... you need to invest in some board shorts! j/k
Old    Jon (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       06-07-2004, 1:00 PM Reply   
Hey fuel you are right about the teal i found a malibu that is teal and i really hate that color scheme but i figure that if i want a good deal i cant be to picky. Teal definetly sucks though.
Old     (fuel)      Join Date: Apr 2002       06-07-2004, 1:22 PM Reply   
Yeah, Malibu was like Henry Ford back in the day. "You can have any color you want as long as it's teal."
Old    walt            06-07-2004, 4:39 PM Reply   
If You don't like the color You could re-gelcoat it any color You want.
Old    Jon (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       06-08-2004, 8:59 AM Reply   
how much would it cost to have it re-gelcoated. I dont know what i am worried about i dont even have the boat yet but hopefully i can get something pretty quick
Old    bigd            06-08-2004, 11:41 AM Reply   

Where did you get the gelcoat & how did you put it on when you re-did your stringers? Sorry to pester you but you've got me curious.
Old    Levi Cress (levi)      Join Date: Feb 2001       06-08-2004, 12:51 PM Reply   
I think to have the entire boat regelled I heard one person say around $4,000. I also have heard people say they've repainted stripes and stuff w/ normal car paint and it worked fine.
Old     (fuel)      Join Date: Apr 2002       06-08-2004, 2:31 PM Reply   
BigD, you're not pestering me at all. I got the gelcoat from Harris Fiberglass in Granbury. I think they changed their name to FibreBlind, but I'm not to sure. They make fiberglass hunting blinds. One of the old men that works there used to work on boats. Anyway, he gave me some gelcoat that they were no longer using. I just brushed it on because it's just the floor and stringers. They didn't need to be beautiful.

BTW, BigD, it may be a little out of your way, but if you want to ride sometime, we can meet up at the Brazos. You can look over the boat and I can describe some of this stuff in person. It may help you out if you are doing a project.

Levi, the stripe and the whole top of my boat is painted with Dupont Imron. It works fine and is very durable and if need be it can be touched up. Besides it costs about $300 in materials to do the entire boat compared to $4000 for re-gelcoating. Re-gelcoating would be nice, but man, that is a lot of $$$.
Old    walt            06-08-2004, 2:48 PM Reply   
It might be 4k if Your paying someone to spray it for You. It would be much cheaper if You did it Yourself.
Old    Sparky Jay (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       06-08-2004, 6:41 PM Reply   
Unfortunatly, the cost of the equipment is rather expensive, too much to justify one job for a do-it-yourselfer.
Old    walt            06-08-2004, 6:44 PM Reply   
Sparky, Can't You use the same tools for paint and gelcoat ?
Old    Sparky Jay (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       06-08-2004, 7:11 PM Reply   
No. I wish. I'de be set. Gel-coat is much thicker than automotive paint and needs to be sanded flat and rubbed to acheive the smooth finish.
Old    Ricardo (gunz)      Join Date: Sep 2001       06-08-2004, 8:29 PM Reply   
Spark,how much weight,and where do you put it?

also,hope you don't mind me postin the pic of your ride.
Old    Sparky Jay (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       06-08-2004, 8:55 PM Reply   
No, not at all. I run it kinda lite compared to most. Right now I've got 200lbs. in sand all the way forward up in the bow, another 300lbs of sand behind the rear seat, (all the sand bags are out of sight and stay in all the time). Then at the lake I fill and empty each time out a 250lb. sac that is under the dash (right in front of your feet if you're sitting in the driver's seat) and a 350lb sac on the floor in between the back seat and engine cover. Add gear and three or four peeps and it's pretty decent. How bout you?
Old    Ricardo (gunz)      Join Date: Sep 2001       06-08-2004, 9:01 PM Reply   
A 600 behind the seat,when it pumps up,it's pushed to the engine box.I also run the sack at my feet,a 500.The platform is usually about 4-6 inches under water.
Old    Sparky Jay (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       06-08-2004, 9:07 PM Reply   
So about 1100lbs. That's about the same as me but my platform ain't under water.
Old    Ricardo (gunz)      Join Date: Sep 2001       06-08-2004, 9:11 PM Reply   
I've run 3 plus 150 in the bow,and 2 waterbed tubes @150 ea.Platform is way under,very scary to drive if anyone else is making waves.LOL.

Viva Lowrider!!!!
Old    Charles (chas)      Join Date: Feb 2002       06-08-2004, 9:13 PM Reply   
I just picked up a 92 Sanger DXII, so far a great boat. Can't believe how well the ride is in rough water.
Old    Ricardo (gunz)      Join Date: Sep 2001       06-08-2004, 9:15 PM Reply   
Got pics?
Old    Charles (chas)      Join Date: Feb 2002       06-08-2004, 9:20 PM Reply   
Old    Sparky Jay (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       06-08-2004, 9:21 PM Reply   
...and Sangers are low to begin with. I just worry about the extra strain on the engine and trans, that's why I run mine on the lite side. That and if I weight it harder the fuel just goes that much faster.
Old    Ricardo (gunz)      Join Date: Sep 2001       06-08-2004, 9:24 PM Reply   
Nice Chas.

Sparky,I won't weight it down like that again,wasn't worth it.Wake was bigger,but gas sucked.

Sangers,nothin like em.
Old    Charles (chas)      Join Date: Feb 2002       06-08-2004, 9:31 PM Reply   
Thanks, in search of tower. Can't make up mind.
Old    Ricardo (gunz)      Join Date: Sep 2001       06-08-2004, 9:34 PM Reply   
Monster is cool,cheaper,and easy to install.Accessories are cheap too.I like mine,solid as a rock.
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       06-08-2004, 9:34 PM Reply   
Wow that Sanger looks brand new charles, how many hrs?
Old    Sparky Jay (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       06-08-2004, 9:34 PM Reply   
They are great in the chop. This is my second one. V210 might be my third. And you really can get a decent wake without killin' em with weight.
Old    Charles (chas)      Join Date: Feb 2002       06-08-2004, 9:37 PM Reply   
450 and runs like a champ
Old    ricktrav            06-11-2004, 2:29 PM Reply   
here's a wakeshot of me behind my 88 2001 natique
rick 360
Old    ricktrav            06-11-2004, 2:34 PM Reply   
here's a shot of the boat
2001 natique
Old    Stephen Higgins (srh00z)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-11-2004, 6:03 PM Reply   
Richard, Charles, those are some nice boats, that tower on the 2001 looks good, some I have seen look odd due to the narrow beam.
Old    Jay (jayc)      Join Date: Sep 2002       06-14-2004, 2:48 AM Reply   
Heres my 89 MC pro comp, it does the job for me!
Old    Jon (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       06-17-2004, 1:31 PM Reply   
I have a new problem. I found an excelent project boat at a great price but my boat fund is turning into a wedding ring fund. I really want the boat, really bad but it was actually a pretty easy choice. She is much more special than any boat. If there was any way to make both happen i would but being in college and not being to work that much just dont know how i could do it
Old    Richard (nauty)      Join Date: Feb 2004       06-17-2004, 2:25 PM Reply   
Buy the boat!
Old    lucky            06-17-2004, 2:35 PM Reply   
My wife and I had an understanding. Once I bought a boat I would then be in a position to buy a wedding band. About a year after I bought my first boat, I proposed to my wife; ironically in the boat. Buy your toys first because you may soon lose control of where you spend your money.
Old    Jon (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       06-17-2004, 2:54 PM Reply   
you guys arent helpin me out here. You are telling me exactly what i didnt want to hear. I was hoping you guys would say buy the ring. I can kinda see how my spending would change after this and you are right now i probably the best time. I dont know what to do.
Old    Charles (chas)      Join Date: Feb 2002       06-17-2004, 11:03 PM Reply   
a good woman is a hard thing thing to find,boats come and go and they will always be there. You love her and she come first. Answer your own question.


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