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Old     (cfisher)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-19-2003, 8:40 AM Reply   
Here's a short clip of Wes Lazara and I trying to figure out backrolls.

http://www.wakepics.com/view_single.php?medid=8592

Aside from hanging onto the handle (I keep chucking it), any advice would be appreciated.
Old     (absoluteboarder)      Join Date: Aug 2002       08-19-2003, 8:51 AM Reply   
I cant do one but am good at the analyzing .....your the closest but when look over your shoulder and put your head back it starts you perfect...stay with that motion and stand taller.....you actually then bend over like your try to do a somersault which seems to negate what your trying to do in the first place.Keep the handle tight and try to pull it to your lead hip when landing. How did you feel after all those crashes...how about wes?
Old     (cfisher)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-19-2003, 8:58 AM Reply   
Michael - thanks for the advice. I noticed the same thing about bending over. It almost looks like I'm "ducking" to avoid hitting my head. It's a weird feeling to get used to going upside down while being pull behind a boat at 23 mph :-)

I did six in a row and then had to get in the boat! Wes actually hurt his ankle. One foot came out and one got stuck halfway out of his bindings. His foot had some swelling in front of the ankle so he iced it and took it easy for the rest of the day.
Old     (timmy)      Join Date: Jul 2001       08-19-2003, 9:03 AM Reply   
christie, you are not cutting all the way through the wake. and you are not standing tall at the top. don't let the wake make you buckle at the waist. also, keeping both hands on the handle may help as well.

wes is essentially doing HS BS off axis 360's. tell him to do the handle pass and he's got em.if he wants to do rolls, have him keep both hands on the handle. that will keep him from spinning.
Old     (timmy)      Join Date: Jul 2001       08-19-2003, 9:05 AM Reply   
also, the forward bending may be because you are trying to throw mexican back rolls. that is a back roll where you throw your upper body forward.
Old     (blabel)      Join Date: Jul 2001       08-19-2003, 9:06 AM Reply   
Christie you are letting your upper body collapse backwards when you hit the wake. Maintain your upper body position, keep the handle in and you should see some improvement. Remember to not let off your edge until you are in the air. It looks like that is all that is holding you back at this point.

Wes is keeping his upper body upright (Obviously). He needs to let his shoulders drop after leaving the wake. Either that or he can start working on the handle pass for an O/A 3!

BTW, that wake made me drool!

(Message edited by blabel on August 19, 2003)
Old     (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       08-19-2003, 9:18 AM Reply   
Christie, your first ones on that video were close. It looks to me that all you need to do is commit to them and ride all the way up the wake, stand taller and pull that handle harder. But what do I know.

Wes, you are going huge. I agree that your jumps looked a bit more like an off axis 360.

Excellent ballsy attempts by both of you!
Old     (absoluteboarder)      Join Date: Aug 2002       08-19-2003, 9:19 AM Reply   
...anyway, my admiration for you christie...it surely can't be easy....I have seriously been contemplating doing a backroll the last 3 weeks...I have visualized it dozens of times....you may have helped me over the fence.
Old     (seattle)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-19-2003, 9:44 AM Reply   
Christie,

welcome to my world. I've probably thrown over a hundred backroll attempts in the last three months. My problem is I'm starting my rotation way too early, and leaning back at the wake so I don't get any air. One thing I have figured out is, if I don't let go of the handle my rotation is much better and the crashes don't hurt nearly as bad.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       08-19-2003, 10:48 AM Reply   
ouch my foot hurts
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       08-19-2003, 5:07 PM Reply   
look from the video that i was almost leaning forward/breaking at my waist. funny how i could not tell at all what i was doing while i was out there. looking forward to some instruction on sunday =)
Old     (airbesar)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-19-2003, 5:23 PM Reply   
OK, like Michael, I confess that I don't do these and I'm trying to summon up the courage cuz it's time. First off, Christie, you are going so much bigger than you did a year ago in the attempts you posted then. You know you're going to land it. But you're kinda doing what i do which is to start thinking about hunching up into a ball in the forlorn hope that that will get you around faster. As part of that thinking, on some of the attempts, you can see your knees just about collapse as you go up the wake. On the second to last one, you stand up more, the height is nice and I know you're going to make it if you hold on to the handle.

Wes is moving the handle to the back hip every time. No wonder it looks like he's doing a 360. Both of you look like I feel the few times I've tried - I doooooon't wanna get upside down. Good on you for trying.
Old     (levi)      Join Date: Feb 2001       08-19-2003, 6:14 PM Reply   
Hey Christie..... Here's my 2 cents from someone that can't do them either. :-) I think if you suck your knees up to your chest after you LEAVE the wake then that will speed up your rotation and you'll make it around. It appears that you're looking back over your shoulder which is good. I gave this advice to another guy and he actually over rotated and did a 1 1/2 roll...so that may help. For Wes, he needs to look over his shoulder and not at the shore. The body follows the head. Pulling his knees up will also help and holding the handle in to rotate around its axis is also important. You're both getting enough air I think...just a little tweaking and I'll be seeing you show me up even more next time out! :-)

PS. Thanks for the filming the other day..it always helps to see your own bad habits to try and fix them!
Old    norcal_99            08-19-2003, 6:22 PM Reply   
Christie, Great job. You're almost there. Keep it up!!!
Old     (bruce)      Join Date: Feb 2002       08-19-2003, 6:29 PM Reply   
Wes- It hurt so bad watching y'all crash I took 4 ibuprofen.

I strained, sprained, (broke?) my left foot weeks ago and it still hurts to get out of bed. After my intial 5 hours visit to the ER I haven't rushed back for a second look.
Old    steveaz            08-19-2003, 7:39 PM Reply   
DAMN!!!!! Wes, screw the backroll, pass the handle and you've got yourself an off-axis 3. That is exactly how you initiate that trick and in my opinion way cooler than a backroll.

Compare your shots to this video (only watch the first 5 seconds the rest is garbage and it's the only video I have of it) and you'll see what I'm talking about.

http://www.wakepics.com/view_single.php?medid=6837

Christie...damn girl, looks like you took some hard crashes, way to stick with it.

Steve
Old    wakelvr            08-19-2003, 8:19 PM Reply   
I'm with Bruce, I'm popping pills after watching that...
Old     (wakepaula)      Join Date: Jul 2002       08-19-2003, 9:47 PM Reply   
Ow! Christie, you sure DID take some hard crashes. Keep it up, stick one, then show me how it's done some day:-)
Old     (cfisher)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-19-2003, 9:58 PM Reply   
Thanks for all of the advice and encouragement!! One of these days, I hope to post a success video.

Maybe some super glue on the handle might help :-)

Old    playtime            08-19-2003, 10:08 PM Reply   
christie, i just recently landed a backroll 2 weeks ago, your not coming off the wake right, so heres a tip i got from shaun murry let the board do most of the work, coming off the wake let it roll out and away and it should work dont try to hard its simple and when you land the way i learned was to let go with my right hand and usually you can land it
Old     (joe_788)      Join Date: Aug 2003       08-19-2003, 11:18 PM Reply   
I just landed my first backroll last week, and my first clean wake to wake backroll on saturday. A lot of people here gave me hints and tips that helped a lot when I was out there, and I managed to stick it on my 6th attempt ever.

The tips that helped me the most were as follows:

#1- HOLD ONTO THE HANDLE! You absolutely will not learn this trick without holding the handle till the bitter end every time. (With both hands)

#2- Start pretty close to the wake, and make sure the hardest part of your cut is while you're heading up the wake.

#3- I had to make a conscious effort to make the board go up and away from the boat. It felt wierd, but for some reason the board always came right back down under me.

#4- Go as slow as you can without the wake crashing over on itself, you don't have to go wake to wake. I see your profile says you have a Malibu, so you should be able to get down to about 17-18mph and still have a big rolling wake. You'd be surprised how much softer the landings are at this speed, (especially if you land on your face).

#6- Be relentless! You're already trying to go for it wake to wake, at regular speed. That means you have twice the balls I had when I first started trying them. Just keep trying it over and over, you'll get it at some point!
Old     (jrichard)      Join Date: Aug 2001       08-20-2003, 9:11 AM Reply   
Hi guys,

Fantastic, fabulous, stupendous effort!...Looks like some pain! Great job! I'll throw in my two cents:

Back rolls are not "thrown"...meaning there is very little body movement to initiate the BR. For me, this is key to the trick because it means you have to have a strong edge all the way up the wake in order for the board to continue up and slightly behind you. If you have a strong edge all the way up and look up and over your leading shoulder as you leave the wake, the rotation will be automatic.

Christie, one of the first things I noticed is the bending of your knees as you ride up the wake. It will help if you start extending your knees as your ride up the wake...that way you will get the full pop. Think of standing tall and *fully* extending (while maintaining an edge) as you leave the wake. You are edging (and that's why your rotation is good with the board going up and behind you), but you're coming up short because you're absorbing the wake as you ride up it. Also, holding the handle close to your body speeds up the rotation, letting it out slows you down, and letting go kills it. So, pull it to your leading hip and try to keep it there. You are *way* closer to landing it than you might think.

Wes, nice OA3! You're waiting for the pop before you initiate the backroll. Waiting for the pop is perfect for a 3 (that's why you look so stylie), but it stops the backroll. Since you wait, you end up throwing the roll once you're in the air and it looks like a beautiful 3. It might help if you think about *not* initiating the backroll...instead, the roll is a continuation of the cut up the wake. If you have a strong cut *all the way* up the wake, stand tall (while on edge) as you get to the top of the wake, and look up and over your lead shoulder, the board will continue on its path upward (and somewhat behind you as you get pulled forward by the line). There is no "throwing" it early or "throwing" it late, because you shouldn't be "throwing" the roll with strong body movements. It will also help if you take a much shorter cut but with a stronger and very progressive edge. On my rolls, I don't really get on an aggressive edge until the last several feet before the wake. The aggressiveness of your edge determines your rotation. Speed into the wake determines the distance you will fly. And a combination of the two determines the height you achive.

When I was at the Wakeboard Camp, Kyle Schmidt taught people backrolls by first having them try air rolls (backroll w/o the wake...out in the flats) at a reduced speed. You can do a backroll if you can get 1/2-3/4 rotation on an air roll. The falls don't hurt much (...less than a regular speed short-rotation backroll crash).

If you're not sick of me yet, we should go riding soon...

JR
Old     (susieq)      Join Date: May 2002       08-20-2003, 9:32 AM Reply   
JR - you have a talent for figuring out what the mistakes are instead of just explaining how to do it...helps so much...they'll have it stuck in no time. Wes, JR is right, very stylie OA 3, I think you should go for it;)
Old     (levi)      Join Date: Feb 2001       08-24-2003, 8:59 PM Reply   
WEll, Christie.....I figured I'd let you know that I went out and likely added a few more good crashes to your film on backrolls. I have a couple like you and a couple "off axis 3's" like Wes. It was going good until I blew my ear drum and then the party was over. :-( The funny thing was when I climbed back in on the swim step and totally fell back into the water cause I had no balance....or there was the big roller...yeah, that was it! :-) Well, now I need to get my ear back into shape before I can go at it again...with ear plugs this time! Good Luck!!
Old     (peter_c)      Join Date: Sep 2001       08-24-2003, 10:54 PM Reply   
Some carnage photos from today. I tell ya what Wes, if you just keep the handle at your waist and do not bend at the waist, you will easily land a backroll. Oh yeah and open your EYES! hehe

Do not let the handle out or let go with one hand.

Roll to revert? Cool! You had the rotation, but without the handle in the right place you have no control.




Levi, sorry to hear about your ear drum. I have been down that road a few times. Hurts like heck. So far I have never experienced the loss of balance, infact I continued my set the last time, knowing it was blown out. I have worn a helmet ever since to protect my ears.
Old     (lchamaschuk)      Join Date: Feb 2002       08-25-2003, 9:08 AM Reply   
Impressive Christie! If you can do it (which I'm sure you will do soon), then I should be able to get up the guts to try it!
Old     (cfisher)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-25-2003, 9:41 AM Reply   
Levi - sorry to hear about your ear drum...OUCH!

Wes - those pics look great! It looks like you are getting a lot closer. I also tried a few more times this weekend, but I only had one decent attempt. Here are the latest ones:

http://www.wakepics.com/view_single.php?medid=8660



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