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Old     (Lemonade)      Join Date: May 2015       07-16-2016, 10:04 AM Reply   
Thanks. Ya. I need more people ballast. I have a couple 250's and might buy a buddies 600 to sack her out. Gonna test my wife's patience filling bags.
Old     (ChaseR720)      Join Date: Jul 2015       07-16-2016, 2:17 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemonade View Post
Here's the curl. Angle goes back to about 45 deg when the turnbuckles turned all the way in. I had it about 80 deg tonight. Does anyone have any info about what reducing/increasing angle effects on wave qualities?
From what I've been reading the more angle (closer to 90 degrees from the boat) the smaller the gate needs to be.
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       07-20-2016, 3:52 PM Reply   
hey fellas, working with 2.0 on mine. First run was too perpendicular to the boat. I'd guess I'm rocking a 120* angle now. was night and day difference on my bro sv211. Haven't tried on my 230 yet but will this weekend. SERIOUS difference
Old     (Lemonade)      Join Date: May 2015       07-21-2016, 1:38 PM Reply   
Well the gate works. Guess I've saved myself $90k on a new Axis or used Malibu.
Attached Images
 
Old     (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Minnesnowda       07-21-2016, 2:30 PM Reply   
Hahahahah Great Pick! To hell with a can of beer toss me a Growler!
Old     (shagman)      Join Date: Sep 2004       07-21-2016, 5:05 PM Reply   
That looks much better Lemonade, what is your setup for that wave?
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       07-22-2016, 9:48 AM Reply   
ha! love it!
Old     (Lemonade)      Join Date: May 2015       07-22-2016, 10:03 AM Reply   
That's how Sangers roll.

Nick, that's both 750's maxed out, about 300 or so in the locker 3 adults and three kids in the boat. I'd guestimate about 11.5 mph

Suck gate's still at about 80 degrees, a bit lower this time I figure (more below the water line). I think the hardest part is replicating any angle you may have when mounting. My buddy has a Supra SSV21 and just got his Delta in last night. We're gonna play switchies and see if there's 600$ worth of difference.

Next mod's FAE and some tower speakers. I missed out on some kicker KMT67's in the spring.
Old     (potsieuf)      Join Date: Jul 2014       07-22-2016, 10:14 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemonade View Post
Well the gate works. Guess I've saved myself $90k on a new Axis or used Malibu.
I saw this picture on Instagram under the account wakeboatsurfing. I almost know someone that's Internet famous.
Old     (macpres)      Join Date: Jul 2016       07-23-2016, 2:30 PM Reply   
I purchased this one on eBay, have used it with my neighbors, X2, Malibu Response, and my 2004 Super Air, works great on all the boats, amazing what something this simple can do!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/191922580165...84.m1555.l2649
Old     (LiquidObsession)      Join Date: Jun 2015       07-27-2016, 8:10 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shagman View Post
I've done some updates to my design, going a bit overboard to make everything I can either stainless or aluminum to prevent corrosion. At this point the only thing I can't change out is the post that goes into the suction cup. I have stainless springs showing up Monday, they should fit in place of the original ones, which I've found out will rust.

I'm getting just over 20 degrees of adjustability, the design allows easy changing of the plate if a different size is needed, or if it needs to be broken down for storage.

I bought parts to make a few up for friends, these things are catching on fast!


Forgive my ignorance... Where the heck do I mount it? Above or below?

2004 MB Sports 220V

Getting ready to build this and realizing I've got graphics where I "think" it's supposed to go. Will not work (or suck) over the graphics.

Thoughts, ideas, solutions anyone?
Old     (shagman)      Join Date: Sep 2004       07-27-2016, 8:24 AM Reply   
There are no hard and fast rules, but I think if you're mounting on the graphics that would be a bit high. I'd start by using the line formed by the black and gray stripe as the centerline for the suction cups and see if that puts the plate all the way underwater when underway. Make sure the cups are completely submerged when you activate them, it make a big difference in holding power.

You could try attaching to the section below the molded curve as well. Play with it and post your findings!
Old     (potsieuf)      Join Date: Jul 2014       07-27-2016, 8:34 AM Reply   
I have found that if I put it to low it will give me a lot of cavitation with the prop. I don't know if anyone else has had that problem.
Old     (LiquidObsession)      Join Date: Jun 2015       07-27-2016, 8:45 AM Reply   
Ok... I've only tested the suction while dry... duh. I'll see how it attaches while wet before I go through the trouble of building it. Thanks.
Old     (shagman)      Join Date: Sep 2004       07-27-2016, 9:14 AM Reply   
If it holds dry it will hold better wet. I've only heard of the plastic body handles coming loose, if you're using the aluminum Cosmos handle I'd say you don't have anything to worry about.
Old     (ryan_shima1)      Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Layton, Utah       07-27-2016, 9:16 AM Reply   
I'm sure most have already figured this out, but when you're putting it on in the water, make sure to "burp" the air from inside the suction cups. This will make a much strong seal to the gelcoat. If you don't, the cups will slide around and/or pop off. Consequently, I empty the water out of the cups when done to help prevent corrosion in the inside.
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       07-27-2016, 10:16 AM Reply   
hey guys, my 2.0 had some issues. Mainly that the cups were damaged from ripping off the side of the boat during testing of version 1. Twice it came off while driving at 11.0. When the gate came off, it tore the rubber where it surrounds the metal plate that pulls up to create suction.

Ver 2.0 moved the plate from 90* off the hull to 30* off the hull. helped keep the gate stuck to the hull. then found the damaged cup.
3.0 will be using these cups, and will likely cut down the size of the gate to reduce force on the cups.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Last edited by denverd1; 07-27-2016 at 10:24 AM.
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       07-27-2016, 10:27 AM Reply   
One more thing to add. There's a pin holding each of the levers that you push down to stick it to the hull. Make sure you leave yourself access to those pins. Had one fall out on Saturday while was looking it over and spent a good 10 minutes trying to get all the parts lined up with enough pressure on the cup spring to put it back in with no tools. Maybe carry some needle nose pliers in case you've built it already. On v 3.0 I'm going to flatten the ends of the pins or bend them so they stay put.
Old     (LiquidObsession)      Join Date: Jun 2015       07-27-2016, 1:08 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shagman View Post
If it holds dry it will hold better wet. I've only heard of the plastic body handles coming loose, if you're using the aluminum Cosmos handle I'd say you don't have anything to worry about.


Aluminum yes.
Old     (shagman)      Join Date: Sep 2004       07-27-2016, 1:21 PM Reply   
Quote:
I'm sure most have already figured this out, but when you're putting it on in the water, make sure to "burp" the air from inside the suction cups. This will make a much strong seal to the gelcoat. If you don't, the cups will slide around and/or pop off. Consequently, I empty the water out of the cups when done to help prevent corrosion in the inside.
I ground some drains in to help with this issue, because the cups definitely do hold water. One on each side, and I'll probably go bigger than what I have pictured.
Attached Images
 
Old     (troy4jj)      Join Date: Mar 2015       07-27-2016, 1:30 PM Reply   
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Old     (troy4jj)      Join Date: Mar 2015       07-27-2016, 1:31 PM Reply   
Had to laugh!
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       07-27-2016, 3:27 PM Reply   
^ thats funny!!
Old     (ryan_shima1)      Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Layton, Utah       07-27-2016, 3:36 PM Reply   
Nick, did you notice a reduction in the suction with those drains that you made?

Troy, that's hilarious! HAHA
Old     (WheelerWake)      Join Date: Mar 2013       07-27-2016, 7:19 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidObsession View Post
Forgive my ignorance... Where the heck do I mount it? Above or below?
I mount mine as low and as far back as possible, works great.
Old     (shagman)      Join Date: Sep 2004       07-28-2016, 9:09 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan_shima1 View Post
Nick, did you notice a reduction in the suction with those drains that you made?

Troy, that's hilarious! HAHA
No problems with suction.
Old     (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013 Location: Vancouver WA       07-28-2016, 9:53 AM Reply   
$8 for Harbor Freight Suction Handle
$2 in Stainless Steel screws and hardware
Some leftover HDPE plastic I had laying around.

Original Design:




Modified to have a little more surface area.







It's not a complete game changer, but for $10 and an evening of time, it makes the surf wave way better than without it.
Old     (shaunnelson13)      Join Date: Jan 2016       07-28-2016, 10:49 AM Reply   
Did you notice a big difference when you modified your suckgate with more surface area? Mine is currently 6x9
Old     (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013 Location: Vancouver WA       07-28-2016, 11:05 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaunnelson13 View Post
Did you notice a big difference when you modified your suckgate with more surface area? Mine is currently 6x9
I do think I got an improvement with the bit more surface area. It's hard to say since it's been tough to keep all my variables constant. That said, my surface area's now about what the mission is.
Old     (shaunnelson13)      Join Date: Jan 2016       07-28-2016, 11:58 AM Reply   
What is the size of Mission's paddle?
Old     (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013 Location: Vancouver WA       07-28-2016, 12:03 PM Reply   
I think Mission's is 9x7 (tapred down to 6" wide). At least that's what I've read on other threads. I had a thinner plate on mine before because I'd considered mounting in the white spray pockets on my XLV. but that never happened as mounting near the water line seems best.
Old     (shaunnelson13)      Join Date: Jan 2016       07-28-2016, 12:09 PM Reply   
Got it, thanks. I used mine one time and it seems to work good. I got it from B_O_B from the MC forum.
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       07-28-2016, 12:39 PM Reply   
My surface area is 10x12 IIRC. will cut it down a bit.

Nelson, how much did you pay for it? thought about making a few to sell
Old     (shaunnelson13)      Join Date: Jan 2016       07-28-2016, 12:51 PM Reply   
He shipped it to me for $90.
Old     (Lemonade)      Join Date: May 2015       08-02-2016, 1:42 PM Reply   
I'm gonna jump in here and tell everyone to invest in some quality belay carabiners. had some cheap clips holding mine, but doubled up to make switching sides easier and I'm lazy and cheap. Now SuckGate V.1.0 is at the bottom of the lake. I'm guessing the 'biners stretched out and the line let go. Gonna put two securing ropes on this one, one is designed for workers who drop tools, has dual slide locking carabiners, as well as the original dog leash with a stainless clip biner.
Old     (kjohnson709)      Join Date: Aug 2015       08-16-2016, 9:32 AM Reply   
Quote:
I've done some updates to my design, going a bit overboard to make everything I can either stainless or aluminum to prevent corrosion. At this point the only thing I can't change out is the post that goes into the suction cup. I have stainless springs showing up Monday, they should fit in place of the original ones, which I've found out will rust.

I'm getting just over 20 degrees of adjustability, the design allows easy changing of the plate if a different size is needed, or if it needs to be broken down for storage.

I bought parts to make a few up for friends, these things are catching on fast!
Nick, do you know what the little half eye pieces are called (the piece that mounts to the handle and the HDPE paddle what screw in? Where you picked them up? I am having the hardest time finding them and the hardware guys at both Lowe's and Home Deport don;t know what I am talking about.
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       08-16-2016, 9:39 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemonade View Post
I'm gonna jump in here and tell everyone to invest in some quality belay carabiners. had some cheap clips holding mine, but doubled up to make switching sides easier and I'm lazy and cheap. Now SuckGate V.1.0 is at the bottom of the lake. I'm guessing the 'biners stretched out and the line let go. Gonna put two securing ropes on this one, one is designed for workers who drop tools, has dual slide locking carabiners, as well as the original dog leash with a stainless clip biner.
Good to know. I've got cheap 'biners as well.

Tested mine out Sunday. HUGE difference on my v230. Didn't like any weight on oppo side. Is that what you guys are finding? still likes a good list + the gate. wave was awesome.

also best wave at slower speed with the gate on. I was outrunning the wave at 10.7 and 11 where we rode with it listed. 9.5 seems to be the sweet spot. need a tad more bow weight and it will be perfect.
Old     (shagman)      Join Date: Sep 2004       08-16-2016, 9:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjohnson709 View Post
Nick, do you know what the little half eye pieces are called (the piece that mounts to the handle and the HDPE paddle what screw in? Where you picked them up? I am having the hardest time finding them and the hardware guys at both Lowe's and Home Deport don;t know what I am talking about.
I see them called Eye straps and pad eyes most frequently. West Marine had some in stock locally, otherwise you'll be stuck buying more than you need most likely. The ones I use are in the link below. They are designed for #8 screws but i drill them out just a hair to 3/16 so the rivets will fit.

Not sure how far you are into your build, but I have a couple early versions of my design laying around that I've been looking to get rid of. Stainless springs but not the full painting of the suction cups post and such. Shoot me a PM if you're interested.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Old     (kjohnson709)      Join Date: Aug 2015       08-16-2016, 11:00 AM Reply   
Thanks Nick. I am just about done with mine and I am looking forward to finishing it. Thanks for the offer on your builds though!
Old     (shagman)      Join Date: Sep 2004       08-18-2016, 7:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjohnson709 View Post
Thanks Nick. I am just about done with mine and I am looking forward to finishing it. Thanks for the offer on your builds though!
After replying to you I remembered a tip that may help you. When attaching the eye strap to the top of the handle you have to be careful with placement, because in the center of the handle there is a solid aluminum post portion that you will want to avoid drilling into.

The handles I've been using are slightly shorter than the ones I see most commonly bought from Amazon so I am using a vice or pipe pliers to shorten the straps up to about 1.5" eye to eye. Have a good look at it before you get to drilling.
Old     (Bibbs32)      Join Date: May 2013       08-22-2016, 3:28 PM Reply   
What is the secret to getting the suction cups to stay on. I have a 12 RZ2 and put it just below the Tigers decals. Sticks fine but once we get up to 11 mph the suction cups won't hold
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Old     (shagman)      Join Date: Sep 2004       08-22-2016, 10:19 PM Reply   
cool variation of the hinge design. if it has a flat surface and the cups are fully submerged when you put them on I'm not sure what to tell you. I've seen designs that limit the movement of the lever and cause problems but yours seems good.
Old     (ryan_shima1)      Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Layton, Utah       08-22-2016, 11:06 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bibbs32 View Post
What is the secret to getting the suction cups to stay on. I have a 12 RZ2 and put it just below the Tigers decals. Sticks fine but once we get up to 11 mph the suction cups won't hold
Make sure to let all the air out of the suction cup when it's submerged and before you engage the levers. With all the air out from behind the rubber cups, it will create a much stronger suction.
Old     (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Minnesnowda       08-29-2016, 8:41 AM Reply   
Well, after building a homemade "Suck Gate," that worked okay. Trying a Mission Delta, I finally found a commercially available weave shaper with a decent price tag of $199.00. The Swell Wakesurf Creator has a price that I can handle and product that looks good. I should have my hands on one this week and will definitely post some pics and review. The product looks rock solid and while building one was fun, this one is pretty and the price is perfect. I am excited to check it out.
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       08-29-2016, 10:30 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shagman View Post
cool variation of the hinge design. if it has a flat surface and the cups are fully submerged when you put them on I'm not sure what to tell you. I've seen designs that limit the movement of the lever and cause problems but yours seems good.
the surface is perpendicular to the boat. Also 11 mph is VERY fast with a gate on. 9.5 is the sweet spot on mine
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       08-29-2016, 10:31 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bibbs32 View Post
What is the secret to getting the suction cups to stay on. I have a 12 RZ2 and put it just below the Tigers decals. Sticks fine but once we get up to 11 mph the suction cups won't hold

the surface is perpendicular to the boat. careful, it will rip the cups and then you need a new HOD. the aluminum frames are more durable, just be careful. I"m running a gate 35* off the hull. yours is 90*

Also 11 mph is VERY fast with a gate on. 9.5 is the sweet spot on mine
Old     (luke22885)      Join Date: Jul 2006       08-29-2016, 3:31 PM Reply   
My buddy made this one and every boat we have put it on so far has made huge difference. Picture is from my 05 Supra 21v but we have also put it on my buddys Mastercraft 205v, and an older direct drive wakesetter. Cost $35 in parts. On my 21V i have been trying different things each time out and found 1100 in center full, side your surfing full (650), and opposite side filled half was the best I have had it with wakeplate at 1/4 and 11mph. It made the wave much longer and we were able to succesfully surf 2 people on the same side which would have never happened before with the 21v
Attached Images
  
Old     (Bibbs32)      Join Date: May 2013       08-29-2016, 10:37 PM Reply   
I went out and put the gate on lower which is a flatter surface. I got the air out and it stuck on and didn't release once. I didn't run it at 90 degrees as in pic- ran it at about 75. Worked like a charm and couldn't believe the difference it made. Tons of push and long. Will play a bit more with putting gate back further and ballasts but stoked with results. Thanks for info guys
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Old     (parkerbomar)      Join Date: Aug 2013       08-30-2016, 1:04 PM Reply   
Had no clue this was a thing. this is awesome.
Old     (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       09-14-2016, 11:13 PM Reply   
So I am ready to build mine and I have a few questions from those of you who have already done the homework.

1. HDPE, cutting board, seaboard or other?
2. What thickness of material?
3. Angle of plate?
4. Size of plate?

My boat is a Nautique 211 with a step on the side so I may have some mounting issues but I think I will be fine if I move it up a little.

I am thinking I will use one of these $10 suction handles:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...=AOOJRST9WE1AB

Seaboard because it's fairly easy to work with, cut, drill, file, etc. 1/2" or 3/4" thick?
https://www.amazon.com/Seaboard-Dens...seaboard+12+24

Angle of plate seems like 45-60 degrees is about right.

Size of plate seems like 6x8 to 8x10 is the range of sizes most are using with success.

I also like the idea of the drilled relief holes to reduce the spray off the face of the device.

Please share your thoughts.
Old     (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       09-14-2016, 11:44 PM Reply   
Also does the plate mark the boat at all, does it need protection so it does not scratch the gelcoat?
Old     (gravity)      Join Date: Jul 2009       09-15-2016, 12:00 AM Reply   
If you build it right it will hover about a quarter inch above the gel coat. Only thing that should phisically touch is the suction cups
Old     (ChaseR720)      Join Date: Jul 2015       09-15-2016, 11:16 AM Reply   
Here is what worked for me:

1. HDPE from Amazon
2. 1/2"
3. 80ish degrees
4. 9"x6" with one side rounded

That is the suction cup you want to use.

You can increase the plate size and decrease angle and vise versa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeski View Post
So I am ready to build mine and I have a few questions from those of you who have already done the homework.

1. HDPE, cutting board, seaboard or other?
2. What thickness of material?
3. Angle of plate?
4. Size of plate?

My boat is a Nautique 211 with a step on the side so I may have some mounting issues but I think I will be fine if I move it up a little.

I am thinking I will use one of these $10 suction handles:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...=AOOJRST9WE1AB

Seaboard because it's fairly easy to work with, cut, drill, file, etc. 1/2" or 3/4" thick?
https://www.amazon.com/Seaboard-Dens...seaboard+12+24

Angle of plate seems like 45-60 degrees is about right.

Size of plate seems like 6x8 to 8x10 is the range of sizes most are using with success.

I also like the idea of the drilled relief holes to reduce the spray off the face of the device.

Please share your thoughts.
Old     (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       09-15-2016, 1:07 PM Reply   
"9x6 with one side rounded"

Does that mean the end of the plate away from the boat rounded or the frontside (facing forward) or the backside (facing rear)?

thx,
Mike
Old     (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Minnesnowda       09-16-2016, 8:16 AM Reply   
I got one of these bad boys, I works great and is way prettier than the one I built. The best part is that I have NO problem spending $199 for a great wave! Opposed to $500-$600.

http://www.swellwake.com/
Old     (granddaddy53)      Join Date: Dec 2013       09-16-2016, 8:48 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd1 View Post
the surface is perpendicular to the boat. Also 11 mph is VERY fast with a gate on. 9.5 is the sweet spot on mine
Slower speed taller wake
Old     (TTyler89)      Join Date: Jun 2015       09-19-2016, 12:29 PM Reply   
A buddy of mine had a ronix wedge and I decided to make a pattern off of it and make my own. I had some foam laying around collecting dust so I gave it a shot. It turned out great and works really well for our tige 2300v. I did have to make a wedge out hdpe to put on the stepped part of the hull before the surf wedge goes on. I used west systems on it with 3 layers of glass on the sides and 4 on the mounting side. The front got 3 layers of glass and one final layer of carbon for show. I used the 3M dual lock Velcro in clear so it doesn't stand out so bad. I don't have any pics of the surf wave but it made for an entirely new wave thats hands down better than any combination of weight and taps settings we've tried in the past. It makes it so nice that it doesn't matter where people sit, it doesn't effect the wave one bit. We just run the nose and both lockers full and swap the wedge from side to side now. It just takes a couple minutes and we're back up and surfing.
Attached Images
      
Old     (feral)      Join Date: Oct 2011       09-25-2016, 4:11 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by feral View Post
And the wave is .......
So - only had a few chances to play with the setup.

The wave is great shape but has a small sweet spot and doesnt have a lot of push in what looks like the nicest part of the wave - rider sort of gets swallowed in the wave.

I do currently have the boat listed a bit (beacuse of historic bag setup) which i will address with a new bag.

What has given you more push? What results have you seen?

Bigger plate?
More angle?
Further forward/back?

Cheers.
Old     (newwhit)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-25-2016, 4:19 PM Reply   
MORE WEIGHT. ours did the same thing. looked clean and better, still no push.

doubled the ballast, and it did the trick! (tanks needed to be pulled anyway), Mostly weighted evenly, however, we still have every one sit on surfing side, not bunched up or anything, like we used to, to give it a bit of a list. seems to help...
Old     (ChaseR720)      Join Date: Jul 2015       09-26-2016, 6:01 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeski View Post
"9x6 with one side rounded"

Does that mean the end of the plate away from the boat rounded or the frontside (facing forward) or the backside (facing rear)?

thx,
Mike
Sorry. Didn't see this before. The side against the boat is flat and the outside is rounded. Kind of gravestone looking.

Also found that aluminum suction cups are stronger than the shelf brackets the hard way. ha Got to about 20 mph before I realized it was still on. Shelf brackets folded but everything else is still good.

This conveniently gave me the chance to test my thoughts on plate angle. It was closer to 80 degrees but with the "adjustment" it was bent to about 45-50 degrees. Wave was washed out farther back and I had to run at 10.8 instead of 11.8 to be able to keep up enough speed to stay with the boat. I think increasing the plate size would have helped here. That's my next move.

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