Automatic ballast install

Have my fat sacs on the way and am considering wiring in a pump system rather than doing it by hand. Would like to use a reversible pump so I can use the same pump for fill and drain. Which pumps are the best for this? My plan is to put 2 thru-hulls on the transom, one to feed each pump, then use one pump to fill/drain the rears, and another pump to fill/drain the front sacs. I assume there is no problem having the drain spot below the waterline? I also have a question about vent lines. Do the vent line have to exit the hull or can they just be routed into the bilge for overflow? What kind of check valves should I use and where should they be located? Kind of a newb to all this but am very mechanically inclined and would have no problem doing the work, just want to make sure I have the right setup.

Thanks
Bill

I'd go with Reversable Jabsco Water Puppy's. I would highly recommend do three pumps if you can afford it. Having 1 pump for each rear sac is really nice...it allows you to compensate for the people in the boat that make it uneven side to side.

Swing Check valves are what you need. Here is a diagram of how I have one of my pumps set up.

i wouldn't see any problem with having your vent/over flow lines going into the bilge...as long as they start their route to the bilge from above the bag for a few inches. you know what i mean? i'm not sure how to describe it. you just need to be able to let gravity do it's part for a little distance...when i say that, i mean that gravity needs to be able to keep the water from flowing out of the bag on accident.

My plan is to have 2 bags (400 each) in the rear on either side of the engine and 1 bag (250 each) under each bow seat compartment. One thru hull to feed the pump that would fill both rear sacs and another pump to fill both fronts. All the pumps would be in the rear. The lines to the front would be along the inside of the gunwhale and i would simply run a return line in the same location to use as the vent, but didnt want to have to drill more holes. How do I orient the check valves so I can use the same thru hull fitting for filling and draining?

(Message edited by drknute3 on October 01, 2008)

One down side of filling from the transom is you cant draw water while at cruising speed because the inlets are exposed.

x2 on 1 pump per sac.

couple of reason that come to mind about venting to the bilge: if a switch gets left on, or inadvertently gets turned on, you will be filling the bilge with unwanted water. 2nd, by venting above the water line, when you here the water running out, you know the sac is full. $.02

A check=valve on the vent line will allow the pump to draw a vacuum on the sac when draining and pull more water out.

I like how Jay has his fill/empty lines set up, this allows for filling from below the water line, but empty through an above the water line thru-hull (which could double as the vent using a "T" so no additional holes in the boat) so you know the sac is empty when the water stops flowing. No need to run impeller pumps any longer then needed.

x2 on the swing check-valves.

there is no problem using the same thru-hull to fill and empty. The impellers in jabsco pumps in going to keep the water from flowing past them when you are under way so usually check valves aren't needed.

I personally wound not want water overflowing into the bilge. If someone uses the boat and doesn't know how the ballast works or you forget to turn it off, bad things are going to happen. Just simply tie into the bilge output in the side of the hull. Depending on your boat you should have one bilge pump in both the front and the rear so all you have to do is "t" into the lines and put a check valve in the original bilge line and the ballast overflow so the water only has one way to go.

Use the Jabsco's and if you follow this thread you can get a great price on them.

http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/628917.html?1222578858

T'ing into the exit line for the bilge pump is a great idea. It only has one bilge pump, but it is located in the rear and the line is easily accessible.

So if I use the Jabsco pumps, I wont need any check valves except where the vent lines T into the bilge pump exit line?

Another question....I dont plan to fill these sacs all the way, there is not enough room up front to fill them completely, and the rear sacs if filled all the way would be too much weight. If I dont plan to fill them all the way, do I need a vent line?

As long as you are willing to watch them while you are filling, which you will have to do anyway if you aren't filling all the way. The worry would be if someone accidentally flips a switch without knowing it. Suddenly you've got bags popping and boat full of water.

^^^^ Yes, over time, the sacs will accumulate air from the fill line. When your front sac is full and starts to purge out the vent, click all your pumps off.

If I dont use a vent line, will I need to take off the top caps as they fill so the air can escape?

I put my overflow into my bildge. It didn't work. The output of the overflow hose is lower than the fat sac. This creates pressure and a siphon effect. You'll drain the whole sac into the bildge. Trust me.

I used one FloTec brand simer pump from hardwareworld.com shipped for $80. reversable. Works great. Fills four sacs (2200lbs) in about 5 min per sac.

I also used my raw water intake from the engine. Works perfect. No effect on engine whatsoever. If you look in person, you'll see the thruhull is very large and you can put it right by the thruhull so the boat can be off and you can still pump.

Highly recommend FlyHigh fat sacs over Launch Pad.

IMO venting your ballast into your bildge is a horrible idea. You should pick up water through the bottom of the boat, not the transom.

Have fun drilling holes in the bottom of the boat. Measure twice (or maybe 50 times), drill once.

My boat is an I/O, so I will have to create thru hull access for the fill lines, just wasnt sure how to use the same thru hull to fill and drain if check valves were used, but my understanding now is that with the Jabsco pumps I wouldn't need any check valves except where the vent lines T into the bilge pump exit line. Is this correct? Why do the thru hulls have to be on the bottom? Cant they be located anywhere below the waterline?

(Message edited by drknute3 on October 01, 2008)

So this is my thought process of how to plumb this. Two 1.5" thru hulls on the transom, each one feeding a reversible pump. The line coming out of the pump will be T'ed into a line to each rear sac. the other pump outlet will T to each front sac. Each sac will have a vent line returning to a central area in the blige where I will T all 4 vent lines into the bilge pump outlet hose. How does that sound? Is there any locations where check valves need to be placed?

Sounds like a lot of vent lines running into your bilge pump hose.
You will need check valves on your bildge pump hose, below where the vent lines come in (so the water won't run back into your bildge.
You will also need check valves on all your vent hoses, so your bilge pump won't pump bilge water into your sacks (if you actually have to use your bilge).

Simply venting the sacks through the side of the boat would most likely be the easier and work better than what you are suggesting. Plus, you will have that much more fun drilling holes in your boat.

Putting the water pickups on the bottom of the boat is just best practice. You will for sure have the entire pump below water line and you won't have to worry about issues filling when you are driving or the pump sucking exhuast bubbles while idiling, etc.

1st, you wont need 1.5" thru-hull to feed a pump with a 1" inlet ans outlet.

2nd, You've got a whole lot of connections and each is a potential leak point.

3rd, quality hose is expensive, your going to need a lot to run 4 vent hoses to the bilge. As mentioned, having the vents lower then the sac may create a self draining/siphoning effect. Trying to empty 4 sacs, using 2 pumps, through 1 1" bilge thru-hull sound ify, not to mention you will need a check-valve in the vent line and i the bilge in order to keep them from pumping back into the other's plumbing. SS thru-hulls can be had for $8 ea, make it easy and use a dedicated vent for each sac.

No matter how you do it, you will probably need a C/V in the vent line(s) so the pump will draw a vacuum on the sac for a more complete empty.

Just to give you some perspective.....I spent a year planning my system. Once I started the actual install, I started making minor changes. Now that I've used it for a few months, I've got a few things to tweak to make it work even better. Take your time planning, there are a ton of great installs and Ideas on this site.

Good point about exhaust gases, hadn't thought of that. Trying to minimize drilling as much as possible, thats why I was wanting to T the vent lines into the bilge pump output. Since the bags will not be fully filled, the vents are just an afterthought for safety in case the pumps get clicked accidentally.

Could I get by with one thru hull to feed both pumps?

Will a 1.5" intake be sufficient to feed both pumps?

^^^^ Should be just fine, i'm using a 1.5" to feed 3 800gph pumps.

So a 1.5" intake, T the line to 2 Jabsco or Simer pumps, then T each outlet to 2 sacs should work OK? Still not sure if I am going to run any vent line since these bags will not be filled completely.

(Message edited by drknute3 on October 02, 2008)

Yes, that would work. If you don't use vent lines, I would recommend using switches with LEDs in them. That way if you accidentally flip one it will be much easier to see.

Trying to T four vent lines into the bilge line would be pretty messy. If you decide to use vent lines, do it right and dedicate them or at least one for front and one for back - you'll be happier in the long run.

You can give it a shot, but I think the sacs will accumulate air over time from the fill line.

But the plan sounds ok from a filling standpoint? If air is a problem I will install some vent lines with swing-type check valves. Even though running the vent lines into the bilge doesnt seem to be a popular option, it would allow me to not have to drill more holes. The purpose of the vents would be to purge air and act as a safety in case the pumps get switched on by accident.

bill use in line vent on your drain hose. what ever you do dont run them to the bilge your bilge pump was not designed for that purpose and trust me you dont want to learn the hard way. I know drilling holes is tough but drains are above the water line.here is the link for the vents just make sure they are mounted above the top of your bag.

http://www.bakesonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=994

http://www.bakesonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=994

Ok guys, you convinced me...lol I will install vents for the front bags and T the rear vents into the bilge pump output with some check valves. Thanks for the advice.