HELP!! Backroll advice...

Ok... I've tried a HS backroll now probably 200 times! Below is a sequence shot of an attempt... any advice would be appreciated.

Hey Kevin, I've got exactly the same boat as you (92 SNOB). Cept the red on the sides is a lot more faded. I threw the backroll about 200 times as well without sticking it. My problem was that I didn't have any weight in the boat. I put about 700 lbs in and started landing them like crazy.

It's hard to say from the pic but a couple things stand out. First it looks like you are sticking your chin in your shoulders instead of rotating your head and looking over your shoulder. Second, your handle position is a bit odd. You are neither pushing it down toward your hips, nor does it look like the rope tension is pulling it away from your body. Instead it appears that you're not edging hard enough away from the boat at the wake for the tension to pull your arms out. Third, it looks like you are letting go.

ure taking off from your back foot, u can see that your hips are sat back on the first pic.

try to go in with really even weight on both feet, try to lock you hips forward to the handle. when u do this you bend ure legs a tiny bit (but not enough to absorb anything), due to being stiff the wake will roll you up and over.

Harry - Thanks! I had seen the way my front foot looked way ahead in the rotation but couldn't figure out why. I'll try and work on that more balanced take off.

John - The guy that had my boat before me really took care of her and to this day she gets washed and waxed at least once a month and garaged kept. Weight isn't an issue - I've got 500 lbs of water in the back and 175 lbs of lead under the bow plus at least 2 people in the boat.

You said my handle position is odd... should I really lock it against my hip or ??? I had the handle until the front of the board went in... you can see the recoil from the tension. At least I hope it's recoil and not me throwing the handle like a big loser!

kevin, regarding the handle position, try to keep it pretty even in front of your hips. like when u cut in.

try to keep the handle at your hips like when you cut in. if you let the handle come up to your chest the rotation will slow down/stop. also in the second picture, the handle is pushed to your front hip, this is good but only if you're near your landing (this position is used to help slow the rotation and get your board back in position at the end of the roll).

just focus on keeping the handle to you hips, and your hips up!

Kevin, this is a really old picture of me right after I learned the backroll. The board is a LF FLY135 so my nick is in honor of the board with my first invert. You'll notice that my arms get pulled away from my body from the rope tension (plus I used to not be able to hold on with my left hand, that's fixed now).

The point I was trying to make is that it doesn't look like there is a lot of tension on the rope because the handle doesn't seem to be pulling your arms out. So maybe you are not edging hard enough away from the boat when you come up the wake. Also, try sending that 175lbs in the front, to the back. At this point the more wake the better, and 500lbs isn't much. BTW, what is your speed?

Whoops, forgot the picture...

I dont see much difference in the wakes in the 2 pictures actually it looks like kevin's wake is bigger

(Message edited by p_b_parks on August 27, 2004)

Yeah, but the more the merrier

I'm also having problems with my backroll and it looks to be relatively the same problem. I think that im not flipping fast enough. some people say its the pop whatever it is i'm not going all the way around http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/1/186490.html?1093557311 Video included

(Message edited by p_b_parks on August 27, 2004)

Watch the video on the trick advice area. You are trying a true roll (board end over end.) Try more over a mexican roll where it is more of a flip. Looks like your digging you nose at landing from so much pressure of the board going end over end.

If I put the 175 in the back it takes forever to get the boat on plane. Here's another shot of the wake... since we're comparing I'm 5'11" as a reference


(Message edited by boardordie on August 27, 2004)

kevin, i haven't read what people said above, but in your pic, it looks like you're huckin' it. if you check out john anderson's pic, it doesn't look hucked at all. (compare the legs, board, overall body position)

remember, when the backroll is done right, it's almost effortless.

i just landed my first backrolls this weekend
make sure the rope is tight and by your waist when you approach the wake..the key is in the handle...also try shorting your rope a bit if you keep on landing on top of the wake....lean back with all the pressure on your back foot..also with the handle in you spin faster then with your aems extended...go big......

huckin' it, i've herd the expression, wuts it mean?

throwing the trick or the board, rather than applying correct technique.

if you look at the first pic, you can tell he hucked it 'cause the board is leading the trick. you can tell he threw his board back hoping to get all the way around.

now, compare that to the 2nd pic. the broll in the 2nd pic looks smooth and doesn't look hucked at all.

also, compare the handle positions between the 2 pics.

the thing that really helps me is a little thing i like to call the "double pull." this 'dp' is just another strong handle pull to your hips while your exactly upside down. this is a good technique because from the pic it looks like the handle is in good position in the start of the rotation, but then gets away from you half way through. this will help a ton! good luck!

Joe - thanks for the advice. ? for you though... in the second pic he's throwing the board more back and away from the boat. Almost off axis from the looks of it (to me anyway). Am I making it harder on myself since I'm trying to do more of a cart wheel with the board going straight over my head instead of back and away? I guess I just don't want to settle for a trick if it's not techniquely sound. Of course since I keep crashing and burning maybe I should lower my standards!

that's the thing...he's not "throwing the board"...if done correctly, the trick pretty much does its own thing and you're just along for the ride.

look at your pic...the first sequence shows the handle on your rear hip, which means you "threw" your board back.

1. progressive cut to the wake
2. stand tall
3. look up and over your lead shoulder
4. keep handle at lead hip
5. spot landing
6. absorb landing

that's it. there's no "throwing" of the board. the only thing you really need to do is to cut all the way thru the wake. looking up and over your shoulder will initiate the rotation...and where your head/body goes, the rest of you will follow...including the board.

Too much overthinking, that is all this post is gonna cause you. Just keep charging it and eventually you'll get it. If you try thinking about 10 different things everytime you approach the wake you'll never get it. Put all the bs aside and just go for it. I used to have the same problem and I would read all the trick tips and try thinking about all the stuff you have to do. To tell you the truth none of that helped all that much. Eventually you'll start hitting it and you'll just get the feeling of what you need to do to stick it. Just stick with it, try not to get frustrated and remember you're not the only one that has struggled with a backroll.

When you guys say look over your lead shoulder to initiate the roll, do you mean only turn your head or do you turn your shoulders and upper body as well?

remember where your head goes, the rest of your body will follow. dunno if that helps.