Competition Payout$

While I understand there are numerous tour stops and money to be made in side projects, sponsorship and video, how can there be such a pittance payout to professionals on the podium (alliteration award anyone?). Sure, the industry is hurting and some ca$h is better than none, but this is ridiculous. Last night on FuelTV I watched a King of Wake tour stop in which the big checks looked like they cost more to print out than the amount on them ($250-$1,000). This was contrasted with a skateboard vert competition (1 event...not a culmination) aired as part of the Daily Habit in which the winning rider got $75,000 and a Ford Flex SUV. How can there be such a discrepancy? I bet the blond Rockstar girls made more for showing up and looking like they do than Amber Wing did for throwing down. If Amber or the Rockstar girls would like to discuss this matter, send me a message.

Skateboarding is now probably the biggest sport in America. Wakeboarding is a sport that not as many people get to regularly do cause it requires a boat. The prize money is about proportionate to how many people are interested in the sport.

Amber got a $1K bonus for best trick. Winning the series is worth more, but you're right, it's not a lot.

Wakeboarding is still small time, and with the cost of boats and fuel, it probably will always be small time.

The pro women get $3500 for 1st and $2000 for 2nd. I don't know what 3rd is. If you have a really good season and podium at each of the 5 events (Pro Tour Stops) you are going to pick up around $10 000. Your travel and accommodation is going to run you half of that.At least! Some of the riders might have podium bonuses and incentives etc but if they don't and all they get is the prize money?? What do people think? Is it worth it?

Andy, I watched King of Wake last night also, and thought the same thing when I saw those checks. I guess for Jr. mens, getting anything is a good profit since technically they aren't pro.

I was talking to my dad about how the average pro wakeboarder must be paying $6k-$10k for gas per year or more (2 sets/ day X $30 gas X 200 days = $12000). If your sponsors aren't covering your gas expenses, then these guys must have rich parents.

(Message edited by malibuboarder75 on July 23, 2008)

Dunno what event Amber got 1K for best trick. It's $250 on Pro Tour for women. Mens are a grand.

even though they're only making X amount from the tour...each time they win/second sponsors kick up quite a bit of cash

Chris, did you or nicola have to pay for your boat?
(not ment to be mean, just wondering if she is there yet...)
because when people are getting free boats thats another 80k a year they're making

We haven't got a boat Nick. She rides a set most days with Mike and the bits and pieces with friends. And cable, but not nearly as much as she used to.
I agree though, if you get a boat you have to add that to whatever else you are earning.

Nick, how is getting a boat sponsorship making 80k a year?

Boats are usually demoed to pros, meaning they get to use the boat for a year and then they have to give it back to the dealership. While they don't have to pay a boat note, they don't just keep the boat and sell it for a profit. If you consider the cost of the boat with a 10yr note, the pro is making about 8k a year by not having to buy a boat. Plus, very few pros are still in the sport after 10yrs, so that number is a lot less.

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quote:

Wakeboarding is still small time, and with the cost of boats and fuel, it probably will always be small time.

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Totally fine with me. Keep the lakes and rivers empty!

A free 80k boat = a financial benefit

Sure you can't take the 80k and buy a dog or something but its 80k you don't have to spend on a piece of wakeboarding that is NEEDED to wakeboard....saving 80k is the same as not spending 80k



**It says Nautique in your profile chris... just assumed you had one

(Message edited by sidekicknicholas on July 23, 2008)

Nicola trains on a Nautique but is sponsored by MC.

Chris,

Is it possible for your daughter to make a good living riding including sponsors?

I would hope with the way that she dominated this year sponsors would step up and at least make it possible for her to make enough money to live off of.

I would think that they makew much more than that, because, even though skateboarding attracts a lot of viewers, I'm thinking almost everyone that wakeboards watches the Pro tour [exxagerating a little..], and so, of those people, they all need the products advertised in the tour, boards boats etc. to continue riding unless they are moochers, so these companies are hitting about 95% of thier target audience, if of all those people watching, MC sells 10 $80,000 dollar boats [you get where I'm going with this...] it shouldn't matter how many people are watching as skateboard companies make cheaper products, $40 for a deck etc., [Edit: so even though they are selling a mass amount of these cheap parcels, MC is selling a smaller amout of products that make a significant amount of money, I have to think that it gets to be somewhere near even. These boat companies are advertising in arguably the best place to advertise,]so I would think that these boat companies are paying a lot to have thier name everywhere in the event.

does any of that make sense to anyone else??

(Message edited by hawk7 on July 23, 2008)

The bulk of the money comes from prize money. So if you absolutely dominate and win Pro Tour and Q of W plus the other win bonuses you are going to make around $50k. But how many years are you going to dominate for? And what happens if you get injured when the lions share of your income is from prize money? So the answer is probably yes, while you are on top and if you do not get injured.

I remember reading an article a few years ago on Dallas Friday and in it she said she had been making six figures since she was 15. I don't remember where I read it so I don't have any proof. Assuming its true most likely the vast majority of that came from sponsors (wake and non-wake related) and not from winning wakeboard events.

Chris, thanks for all the great feedback...when I started this thread a part of me hoped we could get some "insider info". Personally, I think the big name sponsors (boat companies) should direct more funds into the prize purse. Since the sport is quite literally driven by the gas companies, why don't they get involved and throw some money towards events?: "Stick around to find out who will be the winner of this tour stop's Exxon 'spill of the week'?". Dear Prince of Dubai: please send cash to help pay our riders what they deserve.

I have talked with some pros and they said the top guys..danny, rusty can /will make in the 200-250k range. of course it's all hearsay untill you see that on a tax return. IMO your only hope in making it as a pro is ride decent enough to stick around and meet people in the industry to hook you up with a decent job later on down the road. and investing your money wisely...

The disposable income of pro's is huge too. Think about it probably every guy on the pro tour doesn't have to pay for clothes, sunglasses, energy drinks, boards, bindings, ropes, vests, and most of the mens probably have gotten a boat. So even though a pro may only make 100,000 to 200,000 a year between sponsors and prize money they don't have to spend a lot of that money on the things most everybody else does.

man....$3500 ain't shiat. Our little Spring Ride event gives $3000 for first.

Definitely Steeze, but what about the jr. men and women that will probably never get to that point, but still have all of the huge costs of traveling and training. Basically, the top guys in wakeboarding make less than the lowest guys in golf.

I heard that the top 3 or so last year on the tour pulled in almost 1 million from sponsors, vids, contests, etc etc....

didn't rusty just get a lake house pushing a million and has a kid, thats not cheap

Who pays for travel and entry fees to contests? Riders or their sponsors?

Depending on who the sponsors are, usually the sponsors do on the bottom line.

Didn't it say in one of the recent Mags., that Philip made like 300k + last year?

My post was mostly about women but I think the top men make good money. But think of all the guys that are there or thereabouts and don't. Think what they are spending.
Dallas was really good at the right time. As far as women go, the industry are not getting fooled anymore. You are not going to earn a good living with a bunch of tantrums and backrolls.And I know quite a few that have.Not anymore. As a women wakeboarder now you have to be something special.
And if you think of the Massive impact the sport has on your body,men and women, the rewards are not that great.
Look at the beating Dallas has taken, Raequel this season and Nicola, just sixteen and already dislocated her shoulder and now with knee problems.Hell you get guys that play pro football that don't go through what some of the wakeboarders do. And I believe that these knee and back problems are going to affect you long after you have finished with the sport.
I think people do it because they love it. Cannot be for the money. Not the women anyway.

Also, you get a travel allowance. Doesn't cover all the costs. Most of the pro's I have spoken to anyway. The ones with decent sponsors.

skateboarding is way different. also the maloof money cup was the largest payout in skateboarding history. that does not always happen.

i can say that a top skateboarder like p rod or chris cole make a hell of alot more money than wakeboarders.

"Be the change you want to see in the world"...Chris, you raise some solid points and are clearly in a position to do so. Surely we can get a message run up the chain at Mastercraft and what high level exec. would not widen or rearrange the budget to accommodate this when they hear "the natives are restless and want their pro women to be compensated for competing comparable to other sports which generate such HUGE sales for us". DEAR MC REP, PLEASE GET THIS MESSAGE TO THOSE WHO CAN ADD A ZERO (0) TO THOSE CHECKS (p.s. It would still be a fraction of a sale of one of your products we love, ride behind, and spread the word. If the pros are putting it on the line for our entertainment, your marketing, and their career, at least match what they are bringing to the table [ACL surgery]). Sincerely, Wakeworld

You can ask for whatever you want, prize money has not gone up in years. Wakeboarding is not generating enough to compensate the athletes.If it were drawing 50,000 people per comp., big maybe. Now boat sales will be down for awhile, fuel costs, housing in the dumper, election year, etc... Only a chosen few will benefit, shame, but that's the way it is. I know a 2 time national champ that can't get sponsors to kick in for Nationals. Bummer. Hell, there are 10 year old gymnasts getting full coverage. There are a lot of variables to consider in Wakeboarding, is it in the Olympics? How long can you last in the sport? Will a college give you a full scholarship? If sales are down, co.'s cut budgets. These young people literally put their lives on the line everytime they strap in.

Do it cuz you love it, go to college so you can afford it.

You'd think that some of the top riders would get a degree with all the down time they have. Look at Parks, with his knee injury down time he could have put in some quality time towards an education. Granted he's probably got a sick job lined up through Ronix & Mastercraft. But for the 10-20 riders in the world that are making good $ there are hundreds that are scraping by trying to make some sort of living, sad reality. Stay in school.

Above message brought to you by Insurance Dude's Improbable Ostentacious Theory (anagram)...check his profile, and much like I've seen other insurance industry insiders adopt: "That's not our problem, that's their problem and its their fault" which translates to "you were engaged in a dangerous activity so NO COVERAGE", "we accepted your money, but cancelled your policy for underpayment so NO COVERAGE", "you were on break when you got hurt so NO COVERAGE"...I am not suggesting a windfall for the pros, but make it worth the time and effort.

Competitions payouts are really poor. I can't figure out how this works and I have ran my own business for years. I read in my local newspaper today about a golf tour called the Tar heal Tour. They had a stop at a local course and about 2 dozen spectators showed. These are the 2nd or 3rd tier players. Not even ranked. Payout- 1st $17,000, 2nd- $9,500 3rd- $4500. How do they get that kind of money

Riders that make the big money- Current big names. Rusty, Phil, Danny, JD. These guys do well. Then the legends. Murray and Byerly and Parks. I think the guys who got in early make enough still to live ok. Shane, Ruck etc. The ones who are really struggling are the guys trying to break in and are knocking at the door.

There are a couple of scenarios there. If you get picked up as a Jr Men then you have some sponsors paying some salary (not much) and you may get podium incentives, photo incentives and travel allowance. This will help you get more money once you get into men pro. I would think Adam E is makiing a living. Jimmy probably making a little change too. If they continue to progress they will be in good shape.

Riders who aren't tagged early and try to break in have it really tough. If you look at the King of Wake standing the guys 10-20 are in a tough spot. Most of them are not making much money at all and are lucky to break even after all the expenses. They will usually spend more going to a tournament than they will make from it. They have to go to make it. A few years of that can take its toll and that is why so many will drop out.

I always hear that wakeboarding won't pay big because not that many people do it. How many people fight like UFC? Or the vert ramp in skateboarding? For some reason wakeboarding missed or lost the opportunity to be an entertainment venue a few years ago. They use to be on NBC and I remember nice payouts and a Ford Pick up. I still think a well produced tv covered comp (haven't seen one yet)would get some viewers. Some tv coverage would change everything.

But wakeboarding on the tour is still awesome regardless. No one owes anybody anything. They got to make it happen. They have to create value.

Good post David.

All I have to say is Poker on ESPN.

Here's a piece from a "Minor Details" article written in WBM from 1998.


"...Those of you wakeboard junkies who have been trying to figure out if going pro is lucrative, here's some more information for you. Last October when WBM challenged the industry to fill the World Cup of Wakeboarding purse, Correct Craft answered by offering an Air Nautique to the men's champ. Moomba then came to the table with a new Mobius for the women. Of course, this is in addition to the $124,000 total Pro Tour purse, the $75,000 Vans Triple Crown purse and the $12,000 MasterCraft women's purse. However, it doesn't stop there. Indmar Marine Engines is the next industry giant to answer our challenge - to the tune of $4,000 to the men's Pro Tour champ and another $4,000 to be added to the women's total purse. Being a pro wakeboarder doesn't sound so bad now, does it? Cha-ching!!!!!!!!!..."


There was this kind of money floating around a decade ago? What the hell happened?

Here's the link:

http://www.wakeboardingmag.com/article/Magazine/Minor-Details-1009167


Also I remember reading in an old WBM something about Darin pulling down around 150k, all benefits included (not just cash) in his best year.

And if anybody has any inkling, what are the top dogs REALLY making? Anybody got a ballpark number? We all know Rusty, Danny, Phillip etc are doing the best but does anyone really have any idea?

(Message edited by focker on July 24, 2008)

Skateboarding is a MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR INDUSTRY.
The money in the Wake Industry is way lower then that of the Skate Industry.

Well I will tell you straight up where the women are. Nicola could probably not have had a better season and ALL her money is competition related. In other words performance based. She is injured at the moment and we are waiting to find out how bad it is. So now, the money you have made gets used to make you better but you are not earning any money. Now what???
And if you are out for 6 months you are going to be so far behind when you get back. In all honesty if you sit down and analyse the risks,they are earning peanuts.
And another thing that Stephan said earlier about staying in school. How do you do that when you need to go to 5 comps in 11 weeks? Don't get me wrong I think it's great that the women have the 5 stops but if you don't go to them you are not going to earn any money at all. It might seem like I am complaining but I am really trying to justify all of this. I think most people on here agree that the rewards are probably not worth the risks.
Having said all that I also think Nicola is with the best boat company.Be a lot worse off without their incentives.

"Do it cuz you love it, go to college so you can afford it."

I agree.
Are these pro's really living a bad life? most of them live in a house on a lake with some of their buddies. they get to ride 7 days per week, and they don't have to pay for most anything except the occasional meal. Everything is paid for. they have free time to go to school and get their degree. when their pro career comes to a halt, they will have something to fall back on.

Wakeboarding is never, ever going to bring in the kind of money that other athletes get, because the fans don't come out in the many thousands to watch an event.

"I think most people on here agree that the rewards are probably not worth the risks."

I disagree. I think the rewards of hanging on a lake all day with your bros, and scantily clad wakeboard groupies would be a fun life. at least if you are single.

edit - not to disrespect the womans side of things. I do think the woman should be paid much more for their tour winnings, and sponsorships.

(Message edited by ttrigo on July 24, 2008)

"And another thing that Stephan said earlier about staying in school. How do you do that when you need to go to 5 comps in 11 weeks? "

Schools out during the summer when all the stops are. I think Stephan was referring to the other 9 months out of the year.

Funny, I had this converstion about kiteboarding last week. Wakeboarding (and kiteboarding) need to start pushing their product outside the bubble of the core riders. Lets face it, who even knows the pro tour exists? Wakeboardings core riders only. you dont grow a sport by depending on repeat business from the same bunch. These businesses should pay their team riders well and market them outside of wakeboarding. You dont generate bigger revenue by selling wakeboarding to wakeboarders. You generate it by selling wakeboarding to non-wakeboarders. How do you do that? You do that by showcasing the talent in an entertaining way, and you showcase your personalities. Wakeboarding did this a bit early on (Byerly/Gator), but got away from it once the economy opened up and they didnt need to. As mentioned above, look at the Poker on TV. Did they change the game? No. They simply showcased it in an entertaining way, and put the player personalities out there. Look at what Suzuki did with Pastrana. That is what companies should be doing. They should be in the legend making business. I remember when Byerly, Gator, Tara, Murray, Cline, Shapiro, Shmaltz, Best, Sonja, Zane, Weddington, Andrea, Lavelle, Harris, etc etc were bigger than life. I would drive and pay to see THEM, not just to see them ride. IMO wakeboarding has gotten away from that.

and that's a bad thing? I can understand now why my dad didn't want me idolizing most of those you listed.

"Byerly, Gator, Tara, Murray, Cline, Shapiro, Shmaltz, Best, Sonja, Zane, Weddington, Andrea, Lavelle, Harris,"

what is wrong with idolizing anyone in this group? aside from a couple of personal setbacks, I dont think anyone in this group is doing bad these days. granted, I dont know where Cline, Tara, or weddington is these days. most of them are pretty successful.

Nothing is wrong with it, but I can understand why.

what would be the reason for not idolizing someone like Shaun Murray or Dean Lavelle? I am not knocking your beliefs in any way, I am just curious.

It wasnt that I idolized them, I was well into my 20's during that time. I didnt want to be them. Its that I was entertained by them and the "larger than life" personas that the sport cultivated at that time. Its not like they were movie stars, they were just being marketed to me in a very fresh way. In 1996, the individuals were marketed to me, a non-wakeboarder, in such an inspiring way that I went out and bought a board and started riding.

Wakeboarding is invisible to all but those who wakeboard and compete. The tour rolls around every 12 months for 11/12 weeks and then everyone goes back to their day jobs. It needs to be sold to the public thru the media and the pro riders. It also needs to be on a tv channel that you do not have to subscribe to. Even with Fuel. I think they have shown the Wake Games & Acworth so far. They still have 4 Tour Stops to air and the tour is already over.By the time that goes out people are thinking about snowboarding.The only way to really get it out there is tv. As was mentioned earlier look at poker. An absolute explosion. And all because of tv. People might get attracted to wakeboarding in the same way if they see it all the time?? More people, more exposure, more interest, more money.

Chris, after the year Nicola had, she will definitely be making some good money on her new contracts. Once she gets an energy drink sponsor, a BIG CLOTHING sponsor, and a new deal with hyperlite, she will be more than comfortable. Nicola is essentially a rookie this year so the lucrative contracts weren't available but now that she showed her stuff and that she can literally hang with the boys, it will all come together nicely.

poker is popular because any fat slob can be good at it. plus, any fat slob can make money at it, without leaving his chair.
I do think wakeboarding should be on espn more regularly, but it just does not appeal to the masses. trust me, this is a good thing. can you imagine how crowded the lakes would be, if it was as popular as poker! yikes.

Yeah Kyle maybe. I refer to Nicola and our situation as obviously I have insights into all of that (prize money, expenses etc) but I am not really talking about Nicola here but the sport in general.

I agree with Chris. The question is "what happened?" It was on TV at one time- NBC. Did the sponsors not see the payback or is there more to it? I think the wakeboarding I saw televised was not that good. X Games was live and not that great to watch. It needs to have entertainment value, not just showing one pass after the other.

Put some color into it. Have stories about the riders that was put together before the show. Explain about the boats. Put in some obstacles that have a little awe effect. Show some of the tricks in slo mo. Use good camera angles.

Bottom line- make it a show with entertainment value that will attract an audience beyond those that ride. Brand it as a cross between surf and skate lifestyle. Make it attractive to consumer goods sponsors that want to tie their product to a brand or lifestyle.

This is not about growing the sport but growing the audience. That is how you get money into the pockets of the pros. Not a priority with most people except maybe Chris and myself but the blog is about pro payouts.

David, the Pros have to sell themselves to the public. And the sport. It is the guys on the fringes that might step up and do that. Not necessarily the guys at the top. No offense but are you going to rock the boat if you are earning $400K per annum?? Probably not.
The tour in the UK died because nobody really got involved. Everybody there is waiting for "somebody" to get it going.If not the riders then who??
The tour in the US, in fact all the events, are really well run. There just isn't enough prize money. And if it wasn't for Monavie and Steve Merrit there would be practically nothing.The women anyway.
I would like to see the guys that make the semi's at every tour stop get some money. Any money.From where I do not know.
Everybody knows how tough it is to make top ten. And you leave with nothing. Doesn't seem right.

Chris-I'm with you on that. "If it's going to be, it is up to me". It is up to the riders. It would be nice if there was someone out there who knew how to make it happen because that is not an easy task. Putting together a tv show is really out of their competency zone. Someone like Austin has no time extra time between training, school and working jobs to help pay for all that. The kid works 12 hour days literally. And the guys who don't have to do all that because they are making some money aren't as motivated to do so. They should be because they are the ones who really would make the most out of it.

hmm shelby Kantar finished school while riding the tour the last 2 years. Its the whole pay me know or pay me later. Its great to have fun riding the tour trying to win it and all but how about your future when you can barley walk at 30 yrs old have 20k in the bank and no education to fall back on. Then what?

You fall back on this

I think the rewards of hanging on a lake all day with your bros, and scantily clad wakeboard groupies would be a fun life. at least if you are single.

Riders making money from films huh???

interesting

Nick,

Funny that's what my wife always said!

David,

That's a special kid that can juggle all that and find the time to be successful on the tour. Whether Austin makes a fortune or not wakeboarding, that determination will pay off later in life.

Rich- Thanks and I couldn't agree more. I think getting success early has its perils. If you can live off what your making at 18 or 19 with sponsorships and can play Guitar Hero until 4 am and work is to take 2 or 3 sets every day you may be in for a big hurt later on. Making 30 to 50k is pretty good for a teen wakeboarding but it doesn't prepare them to be successful after wakeboarding.

With that said- no one in my family is turning down any sponsorship money. There are a lot of riders working their tail off to make it happen and support themselves too.

i am so confused about the money...phillip soven earned more prize money than in any other action sport last year. $300,000. Not including sponsors or salaries from energy drinks. I think that it all comes down to the energy drink sponsor. Rockstar, RedBull, Monster all pay huge salaries from what i hear. I'm kinda curious to how all of that really breaks down. Rusty's a top dawg and has rockstar...Jd has Redbull...soven has monster i think...watson has monster....sharpe has rockstar.....randall has rockstar.....i know i forgot a few but i know those guys are making 6 digits for sure but others I have no idea. Benny G is the marketing mngr. for quiksilver riders and he gets a Supra and LiquidForce stuff. he's pretty much set too

You know i don't really know if you can compare skateboarding to this. Skateboarding has been around for almost 30 years now, well at least people competing. skateboarding did have its downfall in the late 80's too when they closed down all the skate parks, but it came back stronger then ever, which also helped for the pro's too. I just think that wakeboarding events that are broadcasted are just in a rut right now. We just need more broadcast coverage. And wakeboarding needed not to be pulled out of the X-Games!

I want to know what kind of insurance these guys have to pay. Is there some "action sports" insurance or what? I think they are high risk haha....

Poke- Soven rides for rip it energy.

Lloyds of London is an insurance company that insures ridiculous things...such as Tony Romo's hands since they are worth so much, bc without them hes worth nothing. I wonder if they carry action sports insurance?

tru ethan! how could i forget. lol! the romo comment is priceless!!!!

It's really interesting... I was talking to Steve Caballero a couple of weeks ago and mentioned to him that "Cab" and "Half Cab" is used often in wakeboarding tricks and he had no idea... almost like he had no idea what wakeboarding really was and tricks are named after him. Wakeboarding is small and could definitely use some TV time so people can get exposed to it. Lets get all the companies together to pay for some air time? Wakeworld TV! Dave, what do you say? haha!