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Old     (timelinex)      Join Date: Oct 2014       12-27-2016, 11:32 AM Reply   
I went the route of the backroll for my first invert and now I've back tracked to learning the flip tick edge invert.

I tried it 3 times a few months ago and this last weekend I decided to try it again. Surprisingly it only took 5 tries (versus the 100s it took on a backroll). Funny how a better foundation helps.

Anyways, here is the tantrum I landed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcTx...ature=youtu.be

My concern is that my spin is a little funny. It looks like I do 3/4 of a backflip and then kinda side roll into place. I'm not sure if that falls into the 'everyone's style is a little different' or if I'm doing something wrong. It's almost like I add a little frontside spin to it.

Any advice or comments?
Old     (ryan_shima1)      Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Layton, Utah       12-27-2016, 8:06 PM Reply   
Looks like you come in really back foot heavy on your approach. If you leave the wake off your back foot it will twist you in the air. Be more even-pressured when you take your board to edge and begin loading the line. Also looks like you almost lose it right before the wake, that could be because you're squatting too low coming in so when you go to change edge it makes it difficult to stand tall. You don't need to squat so low to load the line. Good luck!
Old     (tripsw)      Join Date: May 2006       12-27-2016, 10:21 PM Reply   
Congrats!
Like Ryan said the edge-change looks a bit funny. Not sure what it is, maybe let go with your back hand a split second earlier (?).
I also see what you mean by the flip looking a bit odd. My guess is if you wait a little bit longer for the pop it will fix itself. Again not sure but give it a shot!
Old     (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       12-29-2016, 8:47 AM Reply   
Not bad actually. The thing I would personally change that helps my students - Go out much wider and STOP. Let the boat start pulling you back, than start building your edge. Than when you hit the spray, start letting off to get flat. Let me see if I can find the video instructional I did on this one as it was a breakdown for 200+ Lb guys, but the principle still applies. The wider approach give you more time and speed so when yogurt on your toes it converts to pop and the speed is enough to get you across the wake. I do mine almost in a rarely approach now when I want to take them big.
Old     (80AM)      Join Date: Apr 2016       12-29-2016, 9:49 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by buffalow View Post
yogurt on your toes.
lololol
Old     (gnarslayer)      Join Date: Sep 2008       12-29-2016, 6:00 PM Reply   
Alrighty I have good news, your problem is super easy to spot!

So you could take a wider approach like said above, as you are taking a pretty short cut, but that won't really fix your side flip problem.

Your handle placement is your problem. About half way through your rotation you are moving the handle in front of your body. If you keep the handle on the left side of your body, you will continue to flip straight back.

Also your boat needs more weight on the port side to balance the wakes out. The wake won't be so round on your takeoff and will have a little more lip which is good for trip based tricks.

Go try
Old     (norcalbordr)      Join Date: Feb 2006       01-01-2017, 3:30 PM Reply   
I agree with everything mentioned above already. 1 thing I would also add is as you progressively edge in and start your trip flip edge, focus on taking it more straight up rather than throwing your head back. With regard to handle placement, the closer into your body you hold it, the faster you will rotate. As you spot your landing, if you feel you are going to over rotate and land too heel heavy or land on your ass, let your arm out and it will slow down your rotation. The hard part is landing it the first time. Now that you know how to do it, its just a matter of dialing in the technique. Nice job.
Old     (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Minnesnowda       01-03-2017, 1:44 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarslayer View Post
Alrighty I have good news, your problem is super easy to spot!

So you could take a wider approach like said above, as you are taking a pretty short cut, but that won't really fix your side flip problem.

Your handle placement is your problem. About half way through your rotation you are moving the handle in front of your body. If you keep the handle on the left side of your body, you will continue to flip straight back.

Also your boat needs more weight on the port side to balance the wakes out. The wake won't be so round on your takeoff and will have a little more lip which is good for trip based tricks.

Go try
This is the best advice there is, if you know wakeboarding then you you know JB is a beast on a wakeboard.
Old     (ekingen)      Join Date: Oct 2016       01-04-2017, 10:46 AM Reply   
I'm no pro, but I've spent a lot of time learning and studying Tantrums the last couple summers and think I finally have it nail down.

I agree with JB on the handle position thing. Sometimes to keep me from rotating weird or over rotating I like to put my handle arm all the way out to feel almost like a Christ Air. (Tony Haws Pro Skater Reference) Then you always have room to pull it in to your hip if you feel that you are going to come up short.

Then, what really helped me is to not go 100% balls to the wall on my cut. Dial it back 20 to 30 % and feel in control when you make the edge change. When you are first learning, getting a huge fast cut will just lead to tripping early or not tripping at all when trying that oh so delicate timing of the edge change at the wake. Just like everything else in wakeboarding, the timing, form, balance, and precision of your launch is WAY more important than the speed you are going when you hit the wake.

If you watch David O'Caoimh tantrum or whirley, he barely cuts, but absolutely skys.
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       01-04-2017, 1:47 PM Reply   
Try waiting a little longer. You flipped before the top of the wake.
Old     (timelinex)      Join Date: Oct 2014       01-20-2017, 10:56 AM Reply   
Well I went out and tried 4 more yesterday. The first one I landed but let go of the rope because I wasn't expecting the landing and the 2nd one I landed , rode 5 feet and ate it. Must have got excited and lost awareness of my front edge or something. Not sure, but I had a nice face plant. I should have landed both of those. I think that last fall took alot out of me, because the next 2 were terrible tries. One I extended too late and got no air. Surprisingly still made it most the way around, but landed right on the 2nd wake and fell. The last one I squared up at the bottom of the wake and literally just tripped backwards over the wake and right onto it.... I decided to call it quits for the day, before I ingrained some bad habits.

I think the main thing I have to do to prevent the funny spin is keep my hand out there, like Eric & JB suggested. I tried to make sure of this on my first 2 tries and I think my spin was a true back flip.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan_shima1 View Post
Looks like you come in really back foot heavy on your approach. If you leave the wake off your back foot it will twist you in the air. Be more even-pressured when you take your board to edge and begin loading the line. Also looks like you almost lose it right before the wake, that could be because you're squatting too low coming in so when you go to change edge it makes it difficult to stand tall. You don't need to squat so low to load the line. Good luck!
I think this is what happened on my last 2 tries. Too hard of a cut with a squat and coming up off balance and ill timed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by buffalow View Post
Not bad actually. The thing I would personally change that helps my students - Go out much wider and STOP. Let the boat start pulling you back, than start building your edge. Than when you hit the spray, start letting off to get flat. Let me see if I can find the video instructional I did on this one as it was a breakdown for 200+ Lb guys, but the principle still applies. The wider approach give you more time and speed so when yogurt on your toes it converts to pop and the speed is enough to get you across the wake. I do mine almost in a rarely approach now when I want to take them big.
I tried going wider but I actually can't. I've been working on going really big on my jumps and and also working on landing the different spins. So to prevent big pain and lessen the bailing/scare factor I have 'permanently' (maybe till summer) shortened the rope to 60 and put my speed down to around 19.2mph. The benefit is it has most definitely sped up my learning process and I haven't even had 1 minor injury since. The disadvantage is I have to really work for it alot more at these speeds and rope length. I can't go out further than what you see. When I edge harder out past the point, my edge starts slipping and I just start sinking instead of going further.

Also, my wake jump edge in is alot smoother and more progressive. But for me to have enough time to do everything at this length and still clear the wakes on the tantrum, I basically have to crank the edge right away and do the transition last second. At least that's what it's felt like.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarslayer View Post
Alrighty I have good news, your problem is super easy to spot!

So you could take a wider approach like said above, as you are taking a pretty short cut, but that won't really fix your side flip problem.

Your handle placement is your problem. About half way through your rotation you are moving the handle in front of your body. If you keep the handle on the left side of your body, you will continue to flip straight back.

Also your boat needs more weight on the port side to balance the wakes out. The wake won't be so round on your takeoff and will have a little more lip which is good for trip based tricks.

Go try
I'm pretty positive thats the problem. I focused on keeping my hand out and I think my rotation stayed true throughout the flip.

In this video, your right the wake is washed out. But generally we do try to keep them even and not washed out. I'm guessing someone moved seats and didn't think it mattered since I was working only on the heel side for the tantrum.



Thanks for all the advice guys. I know I can land this thing, now I just have to apply some of the tips and get it dialed in!
Old     (tripsw)      Join Date: May 2006       01-27-2017, 10:10 PM Reply   
I don't think I ever tried but I would probably have a hard time sticking a tantrum at 19 mph. One of those tricks where it gets easier with a bit more speed, I find.
Old     (timelinex)      Join Date: Oct 2014       03-31-2017, 12:54 PM Reply   
OK guys I've tried the tantrum a few more times and after a few falls I'm having difficulty keeping my hand out there. For some reason my body always reverts to pulling the handle bar into my torso mid-flip. This results in me going 180 e.i Tantrum to Fakie (Even almost landed one like that haha). I tried like 10-15 times and even though I'm actively thinking "keep your hand out there you idiot", I think my body freaks out and braces for impact or something (not sure if thats actually why , just guessing).

Any advice on a drill or something to get my body used to keeping my arm out there? If not, I'll definitely just keep trying, but I just feel like I'm ingraining the habit.
Old     (timelinex)      Join Date: Oct 2014       03-31-2017, 1:47 PM Reply   
OK, I'm not 100% sure but after some reading I think I might know whats going on.

The harder I think about leaving my hand out there, the more I straighten my arm out at the wake and through the flip. I have read you should keep a bend in the arm to control line tension. So I'm thinking that by straightening my hand completely I'm feeling a ton of line tension mid flip which throws me off axis and makes me react by pulling on the line.

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