diesel boat?

dont know if anyone has already asked this before...but i just was wondering if anyone has ever heard rumors of diesel powered tow boats? just imagine a turbo duramax or cummins or powerstroke (whichever you prefer) pullin you around the lake on a wakeboard or surfing...doesnt it just make sense?

Diesel powered tow boats have been around for several years. Have you been living in a box?

IF SANGER put a D- max in one of there boats I would get one for sure there is a d - max marine diesel out there with 350 ponies not sure on the torqe.

Chris Waters has an X-star with a diesel. I think it cuts fuel consumption in half loaded down, and it planes quickers.

It makes a lot of sense to have a diesel. Maybe Epic should do it and be the first, they seem to be the first in a lot of departments. Plus with 4000lbs, a diesel would really help out.

havnt mastercraft done it this year?

Yea, in a prostar 190. The diesel engine is a $25k upgrade. I also think its only available in Europe where gas is more expensive.

how many gas pumps at the dock have diesel. not many if any around me. that would be the only problem if your going on a week trip you would have to head into town every day to fill up or maybe every 2 days

You can buy alot of gas for $25K.

Ryan- If you are only burning 4-5 gallons per hour loaded down, you wont have to worry about filling up as much.

nu bu- True, but I think $25k on top of the base price is rediculous. The guy that put a diesel in his Xstar paid like 20-25 for the engine. How much is the 8.1 upgrade on an x-star? An extra $5k? How much does the standard engine cost? About $10k? So $15k for the 8.1 gas engine versus $25k for the diesel. I think $10k would be a more reasonable price to make the diesel worth it. Especially for people who put 150+ hours per year with loaded boats.

Say you burn 4 gallons per hour with diesel and 8 gallons per hour with gas. If you run 150 hours a year at $3/gallon, that is $1800 for diesel and $3600 for gas. Would it be worth it? The guy with the diesel xstar says there is almost zero maintenance on the engine.

Sessions was talking about doing it as an option but I don't think it ever came to fruition.

I don't think that's how they are optioned leo. It would be the price of the base engine (probably 5-6K) plus the $25K for the diesel. So really you're paying like $30K for an engine for a boat.

I wouldnt compare the base engine with a diesel. I think the 8.1 would compare better to a diesel.

So say $10k for the 8.1 versus $25 for diesel. Thats a $15k upgrade. Is the upgrade worth it? But the same question applies for trucks. Do you need a diesel to tow a boat, no, but its nice to have.

I don't think it will work right now. I still see brand new jetta's and beetles with the TDI engine trailing black smoke when taking off, still sounding louder than any car around, and stinking like a diesel. Again, these are the latest diesels and they still haven't solved many issues. I think it is fine for a car, but won't work when you are so close to the exhaust output in a wakeboat. I am guessing it is prohibitively expensive to solve the noise, smoke, and smell issue, enough to allow a person to be sitting right next to the engine.

I agree with Nu bu on the cost and feel there are to many cons vs. the pros. In all reality the 8.1 hp output could very easily be raised and shouldn't be a 10k upgrade.

in a box...lol obviously i havent seen one since its a $25k option and most people wont pay that; and its not like i scan the airwaves every day trying to hear news about diesel tow boats. i just thought about it yesterday and was like "hmm, never knew".

anyways, most oem's charge about 8-10k now to upgrade to a diesel on their trucks (a lot of that price is the transmission too). that is mostly due to the new emission standards that came out for '08. prior to '08, it was only about a 5-6k option (maybe the new chevy's with the allison 6 speed was a little more, i'm going off the old 5 speed). with boats, im sure there would be more cost in packaging, emissions, lake pollution issues, etc. that the boat oem's would have to deal with, however i do NOT think $25k is reasonable whatsoever (especially without needing a $4k 6-speed tranny). i could understand $15k, another 5k on top of the 8.1 option, but i mean come on $25k?!?!?

i also think that if more boat oem's started to offer diesels, then the price would come down significantly. you can only charge what people are willing to pay, and if mastercraft charges $25k on top of their $90k boat, and you can go get(hypothetically) a diesel sanger for $75k otd, then im sure diesel engine upgrades would start to become more reasonable.

you can get a vw/marine engine 6 cyl.. saw a adin this years surf expo mag.

Leo you don't understand what I said, read it again very slow. On optioned upgrade is above and beyond standard equipment provided from manufacturer. They provide each boat with an engine, this is called standard equipment. So the diesel would be an option above and beyond the standard equipment. The standard equipment engine costs somewhere in the $5k range. So the diesel really does cost you $25K + the cost of the standard equipment.

I know that is what you said. I am saying that the diesel shouldn't cost 25k + 5k for standard equipment. The Diesel that MC is using is 25k on top of standard equipment. I am stating that if they went the route that Chris (Chase?) Waters went with his diesel X-star, MC could produce a diesel x-star for only $15k over the 8.1 upgrade.

The 8.1 is a $14,750 upgrade to the base engine in an X-Star which contrary to popular belief is not the MCX. MC just won't really let you order the boat with the base RTP. That being said your going to pay somewhere for the engine that comes with the boat regardless, since MC will not let you order the boat minus the engine. Also as I understand it Chris had to upgrade to the big block V-Drive unit as well.

http://www.perfprotech.com/store/articles/marine-diesel.aspx

http://www.marinedieselusa.com/

the extra 25k is nothing! It's only money...that smell would be enough for me not to get one

i'd love to have a diesel boat, boat i won't be buying one since there is no place to buy diesel on my lake.

IMO diesel's are "Farm Equipment"

Hey what about this. If a regular gasser is conciderd pretty used at 1500 hrs What would a diesel's engine hrs have to be to be conciderd pretty used up. Could the extra hrs that could be put on a diesel make up in re sale?

But still leave the diesel's on the farm. Plow the field with them but leave the smelly back stuff out of the lake

Diesels actually emit less emissions on bad gasses. Yes they do put out black smoke which makes it appear as though they are much worse but in fact they are better. I agree that they would need to be tuned properly but a clean burning diesel engine is not to difficult. A 4 cylinder turbo Benz motor would work great in my opinion.

diesels are better on emissions than gas engines, that's why they are so popular in europe (and gas mileage is superior). the black smoke you see from some diesels usually means either there is something wrong with it, or somebody has significantly modified the truck (or car i guess) which normally means bypassing standard emission equipment along with modifying the engine and computer system, causing black smoke due to having 1000hp under the hood. i had a 2000 ford powerstroke that i had straight pipes on (no muffler or cats), a superchip, and a few other small mods and it never put out black smoke even though i pushed 25# of boost.

Just fyi, since I am not advocating either way, but the black smoke is just unburned fuel, not necessarily an indicator that anything is wrong. It occurs at start up when the driver is giving it full throttle and the diesel cannot compress and ignite all of the amount of fuel that is being injected. The way to stop this from happening (other than less throttle)is to make the injector size smaller, but then you lose top end power. Also, just fyi, you cant "tune up" a diesel very much anymore due to epa regs. Just messing with the injectors or the injection pump is a federal offense. Oh yeah, when calculating fuel cost vs. a gasoline engine, dont forget that if you had a 500gal or more storage tank, you could buy bulk and not have to pay road tax, yes "farm" cost.

How much cheaper is farm diesel and can anyone purchase it? Also, how much does a 500 gallon storage tank cost?

Also, does diesel go bad over time like gas does.

#2 diesel is farm diesel now, soon there won't be any such thing as farm diesel (offroad diesel) it will all be ULSD.

Farm diesel is not subject to the road tax, the fuel is the same but it does not have the dye in it that road taxed diesel does. A storage tank is typically $1-$1.25 per gallon plus $100 bucks or so, (I've bought lots of em), but that's a good rule of thumb. And diesel stores much better than gasoline, you do have to put a germicide in it, like FirePrep, to keep algee from growing in the water that collects in the bottom of the tank from condensation. I dont know the exact cost of "farm" diesel right now but it's quite a bit cheaper. And most fuel companies have a minimum delivery amount of 300 to 500 gallons. Just fyi stuff.

yeah g, thats what i mean, most black smoke is seen from diesels that are modified and are pumpin in tons of fuel. i didnt know that the smoke was just excess gas, learn sumthin new every day! and yeah it may be illegal, but everyone still modifies their diesels. thats like saying my o/r h-pipe on my saleen is illegal..which it is, but when's a cop ever gonna get under my car and ticket me for it (let alone know what hes looking at). i know some states have emissions tests and what not, but in michigan we dont have to worry about it so basically its mod as much as you can!

ah ha!!, now that you've said all that...if we dont turn you in does that make us all accessories to your crimes???

JK, anyway, while i was in the Diesel business we could not even consider breaking the rules. Fines are huger than huge.But if we did; we would get a torx screw driver, drill a small hole in the center so it could take the cover off of an injection pump for tweeking. IF someone were to do that it would make them perform better, lots more fuel, lots more hp, more pollution,but we would NEVER do that ...that would be illegal.

lol ill keep quiet if you do

lots of diesel fuel on the delta its all over near the big boats and big boat marinas.

Id love a diesel in a wakeboat just but a CAT on it and you would be good. but prob cost way to much $$ to be feasable. course when fuel hits 5-6bucks a gallon im sure people will start swapping in there v8s for old diesel motors and running bio.

i honestly don't think it should be that high priced...i think if more oems did it, then the price would drop hard. i mean a diesel upgrade in a truck is 8-10k like i said before, and i dont see any reason why it should be much more than that in a boat, where as a lot of that cost in a truck is the special transmission! i mean yeah there would prob be some cost in some emission stuff special to boats, and there would prob be maybe a heavier duty tranny, but i mean 25k is ridiculous. 15k tops. if i was out buying a brand new boat that cost 60, and for 15k i could get a diesel, i'd probably do it.

hey jayc, even though ur an @$$, what kind of boat is that you have? i didnt know maxum made anything but i/o's...is that just a europe thing or what? at first i thought it was an i/o with a tower until i saw the ski pole hiding in front of the engine bay...is that really a v-drive maxum? thats crazy, never seen a boat like that before if it is.

Just an FYI and a BEWARE. There are specific regulations, tax consequences and federal/state offense consequences when using "off-road" diesel on the road. Red Dye (colored) diesel is not subject to road taxes and they will bust you hard if they catch it in the tank of a vehicle registered for the road. The feds and state officials regularly tap tanks around here (mostly where farmers hang out (i.e. equipment auctions, cattle auctions, etc.). The amount of diesel you purchase and store has NOTHING to do with paying road tax or not. Also, most bulk sellers for non-road grade require proof that you actually own a farm.

On the other hand, there are some laws that allow you to apply for deductions if you purchase marine fuel (be it gas or diesel) that contains a road tax.

Just an FYI / warning.

Also, off road diesel is low sulfer (500ppm) vs. ultra low sulfer (15ppm). New model diesels require USLD. If using LSD (on or off road) in new trucks with required emission controls it will clog your particulate filter faster and cause more regens, bringing down your mileage. I think a diesel in a wakeboat would be great, but not if it was $25k more, $10 for sure, and $15 maybe. With the new emissions equipment on my truck there is no black smoke and is much less harmful than gas exhaust. After 8000 miles my tailpipe is completely clean in and out.

heres a duramax speedboat
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/features/0711dp_warlock_duramax_diesel_speedboat/index.html

nobody noticed this picture in the expo pics?

VW baby!

http://wakeworld.com/Galleries/GetImage.asp?GalleryID=469&ImageID=266

ach! vee dub, german engineering!

here are most of the espenses that you run into when trying to put a diesel into a wakeboat. they are a bigger heavier engine with tons more torque than a gas, so you need to have beefier engine mounts, and since you mounting engine mounts to fiberglass, that also needs to be reinforced so now you have a hull that is being specifically built for a diesel engine in its production line. you need a heavier transmission and transmission mounts, and then the biggest problem would be having a v-drive unit tough enough to handle everything a diesel would be able to put out. so not that 25k is even reasonable until it is more popular it will be very expensive.
but for me, i would love to have a diesel towboat. i already setup a strainer and mixer for my grandpa, he has an '84 rabbit that gets about 60 mpg on biodiesel. it takes about 4 hours to make 20 gallons and since we get the oil for free it costs about $1.80, and thats a price that won't jump $1 every summer just because more people might be driving.

master craft = tdi vw

How about this motor for wakesurfing torque:?:


(Output from turbos to intercooler not hooked up yet)

Looks just like what I have in my truck. Except mine is cleaner with more chrome.

Cole- I would like to see a picture of yours.
The Chevelle pictured was at SEMA and was pretty impressive. There was another Chevelle there that has a propane injected 527cu in small block that was pretty sweet.

"There was another Chevelle there that has a propane injected 527cu in small block that was pretty sweet."


How the F do you get 527 cubes out of small block?!?! Can someone tell me? I want one.

Not sure but here it is.



Nice indy style suspension on same car.

Jeff- After posting that picture it sure looks like a big block to me and a custom one at that. ??Maybe a typo on the sign in the window??

Not questioning you, but 527 in a small block is HUGE. That is very clean, it looks like a small block, but damn, 527?

Either way, I want that car as is. It could be an AMC Gremlin with that engine and front end and I want it.

I agree with you Jeff. Here are a few more pictures for you.