St. Louis Boat Show

Anyone see the extreme green/yellow pontoon in the dome with the tower with racks and speakers. I about fell over laughing. The thing also had a hydraulic deck that brought people from water level to the pontoon deck. I have pictures I'll try to post later. Classic.

Yea, that was horrible!! How about the one that had a decked out tower, and had (2) 250hp OB Racing Mercs'! It was maroon and tan.

What did you think of the new 211 SN? I know those guys at Extreme pretty well, they said that it was selling well already. I like the concept for family needs, but I doubt I'd buy one. I know enough people w/ tournament IB's if I wanted to ski seriously.

I don't like the 211 at all. As someone that does both, I really don't like any of the cross over boats. None of them do the other well enough to satisfy someone at the top level in both sports. With my wakeboarding skill, I can weight a slalom boat down enough to make me happy, though nothing that makes a pro level wakeboard wake will ever satisfy me in the slalom course. If I progress in wakeboarding, I have enough friends with true wakeboard boats that will let me ride with them. I hate the seating in the 211, the walkthru seems to kill half the seating in the boat, plus I think the new design CCs are ugly, the 211 and the 226. I think they look like an old MariStar in the back for some reason. Plus, it sure looked like Extreme had the thing sitting a little to low, looked like the rudder was sitting on the floor.

I heard about the racing pontoon and that it was over $50,000, but I didn't see it.

The boats I really liked were:
Response LXi
Supra Launch SSV GG Edition
Centurion Enzo
X-Star, really suprised at the $60k sticker, cheaper than expected
The XLV is nice, but I was disappointed after the hype on WW. The trim tab level on the steering wheels of all the Skiers Choice boats looks cheap, IMO. The XLV looks huge and almost out of place on the tandem trailer. I also thought that I would rather spend $45,000 on the GG Launch than $39k for the XLV.
Supra Comp LTS, for the first time in a while I would consider a Supra slalom boat.
Malibu VLX, the black VLX looked really good, though I couldn't believe they brought a boat that was already registered with #'s to the boat show. Also couldn't believe Dan's didn't have an LSV for the show, since it seems to be the how boat this year.

Disappointments:
The MC's as a whole. Many are getting dated and the price is way out of control. The X-7 was $11k more than the Response LXi and the only thing that it seemed to have that the Malibu didn't was a tower, so throw on a Titan II and you are still talking a $9,000 difference.
All the Tige's as well. Just by look they aren't impressive. The Switch, their only good slalom boat looks like a piece. It looks huge. I need to get behind one to see what the wake is like. On the new 22V and 24V, how do you sit and put your board on, it looks like you need to be 7'+ to reach the platform while sitting on the sundeck. I'm not trying to bash the Tige's, as I have really no experience behind them, so I am in no way a good person to critique them, but from appearance, they still look cheap.

I was really not that impressed with the St. Louis show, the KC dealers seem to put more effort into it with fancy displays with plasma screens, etc. The St. Louis displays were kind of blah. They do pack the boats in there though.

Unfortunately I missed this year. Did they still have the aluminum john boats with towers on them? I wonder who is buying these things?

When is the KC Show???

Are there any Sanger Dealers East of Freakin
California???

KC boat show is February 18-21 at Bartle Hall...

Nick - The Response Lxi was only $28K? You said that it was $11K less than the X-7? Xtreme Marine have thier X-7 priced at 39K at the Sports Show... If a Response Lxi is that cheap brand new I'll definately consider one of those... I skied behind one last summer with the new hammerhead and it was very nice!

I think the racing 32' pontoon was over 80K!

Any way I agree with you for the most part. I really like the LXi and Enzo. LXi's drive nice and are comfortable. I missed the Supra's but a guy in our club bought a Supra Comp from Extreme that day. He is a tricker so it'll be interesting to see what the wake is like for both slalom and trick. He had the old 91 supra, that was a nice wake for slalom and trick.

As for the 211 I agree with you on the performance issue. But since they took the seat all the way back to the driver, it makes up for the lack of seating in the walk-through IMO. Last summer I spent a day in a 210 that one of the guys at extreme was promo'ing and loved every minute of it. We had a huge cooler behind the driver that one could sit on if necessary. The space issue that most people complain about wasn't an issue with us, (we had eight). But we are small people and could see how there wouldn't be the room of a BU or MC X-star. I'd like to spend a day on a BU, just to see what more room would be like. Personally I love the wake on the SN's; I like to go up not out.

I like the 22V Tige the best of the show. It just sweet with the color combo and layout. The X-star was like mid 60's on a "Boat Show Special". I kinda liked it but, no way would I ever spend that kind of dough. I really don't like the MC's at all. I drove a 190 for 3 hours pulling practice at our tournament, and hated it. Turned like crap, was squirly in the course, and not a comfortable driving position.

What year 190 did you drive pwork? I've never driven a 190 that was anywhere near squirly in the course or turned badly?

Brad,

I should correct my statement, I wasn't disappointed with the MC's, just the prices that dealer had going. He wanted $48k for the X-7. That price at Xtreme sounds like a good deal. The Response LXi was $37k or so, can't remember now, it had PP installed, heater, Monsoon 340, wedge plate, fiberglass platform, not sure what else.

I also haven't ever noticed a 190 that was squirly in the course. The late 90's boats had some turning problems, but I think most were corrected with the EVO hull. Actually, the 197s are some of my favorite boats to drive, very comfortable seats, the dash is laid out very well, and they hold well in the course.

Sorry, it was a 197, 2003. I don't know if the owner did a prop change or what, but I doubt it because it was a USAWS regional. But it was squirly and uncomfortable. I forgot to mention this above but it also felt like there was no acceleration and you can't sit on the side of the boat because of the crown. I talked to a buddy down in the Knoksville TN area and said that if you change the prop to something other than stock, it makes the 197 a completly different (better) boat in the performance area. I will say that it seemed very open and roomy for a 19' boat, I liked that. I've spent time driving a '97, '94, and a '87 and I like the '87 the best for handling. The 97 tracked well, but doesn't turn.

Off the subject, but don't overload a 197 and drive at 5-10mph where the water is still turbulent, the engine compartment vents will fill the boat w/ water! Saw it happen on a house boat trip.

Sorry to turn this board into a 197 bash fest!

pwork, I don't think the Pro Tournament 197s run the stock prop, could be wrong, but most promo boats run a different prop than stock in my experience. The 197 is over 20', not 19'. It is a pretty roomy boat. The '94 and '95 are still my favorite looking boats ever.

ok, I am going to weigh in here on the "197 bash". It felt like ther was no acceleration? What are you exactly referring to? Take off, mid power....what exactly? I have a buddy of mine that has the 2002 tourn tem 197 with std 310 powerslot. I have a 03 with the LQ9 powerslot. We both run a 14x20 stainless. Holeshot, I Barely will edge him out of the hole. Mid range power I will run away from him like he is sitting still. Neither of us ever had anyone complain about power. The LQ9's torgue curve is more in the mid power range hence the difference. Next, I don't know you're idea of overloading but I have had 9 people (including children) in the boat and never experienced the water in the vents problem. I am still trying to figure out which vents you are referring to.....are they the ones under the rear of the deck at the angle above the platfom? If you are referring to them then having you're boat weighted to the point that the platform is almost 2 feet under water is your stupidity (or your friends). That is the dumbest thing I think I have heard yet. In fact I would bet an extreme amount of money that at 5-10 mph like you mention you couldn't get the back to sit that low in the water, the hull would be displacing the water in a way it would never touch the rear of the boat. Ummm, the whole "crown thing" is just confusing. 1997 190 is the same as the 95 96. The "bad"hull was 98 the boats took a big turn for the worse in 99. Finally 2000 started coming back. I have owned a 96 205, 2000 205v, 2003 209 and 2003 197. The 197 is by far the best boat I have had yet. My 2 cents. I included a pic of the back vents, were those the vents you were referring to?

Now looking at the picture were you pulling the boat by its arse end? That would make sense.

I'm guessing he was wakesurfing and when he slowed down the wake came back over the back, very possible, we do it all the time in my friends Malibu (Sportster hull), it will just wash up, I don't see how it would swamp the boat. Definately agree about the LQ9, I wish it had a little more low end but now complaints, the mid range really helps when you are accelerating off the jump ramp and in ski fly situations, though about 1% if the public actually uses this.

Agree, if i had an option with my boat I would not have the LQ9, but engine was not an option. For this boat it was all or nothing. For me it is truely overkill. I think the mcx with slot would be the combo. I had the mcx in my 209 and it had plenty of kick for that size of a boat. I will say I was suprised the 310 slot was right even with me out of the hole. The negative to the LQ9 ina 197 is the engine box size is considerably larger and shrinks the floor space.

oh, wakesurfing. Not tried that yet. Still water in the vents? Maybe a little but I would think I could get more water in the bilge by dropping the nose which is pretty easy to do

Let me explain a littly further, I didn't realize this would cause such a stir. I wasn't around to see exactly what happened with the flooding, just the aftermath. They were all just going out to putz around the lake, and didn't anticipate going any faster than idle (13 women) We caught up with them at the dock a couple of miles away. We all guessed what Nick said was true, they went a little faster than idle, and when they slowed, the water came over the platform and up the vents, We thought the vents because none of the girls saw (or felt) any water come up over the bow or stern. They were gone for a while, so no telling how many times the took off and slowed. If they had just idled around there would have been no problem.

Sorry I couldn't find a better word for 'crown'. I'm talking about how the gunnel comes to a point instead of a flat section. Makes it hard on one's rear to sit on the side of the boat when at a dock or just hanging out.

And the power issue is compared to the feel of the LXi and SN. No one on the dock complained about the acceleration, but from the drivers seat the hole shot was fine, but it took longer (with the throttle floored) to get to 36. And we all know that with PP you don't want to over-throttle your speed point or you'll have bad times. So it took more work to drive at the beginning of the pass compared to a BU or SN. Now with that said, I have no idea what engine/prop combo the boat had. It sounds like barefoot's boat would probably be a better driving boat for a long day in the drivers seat.

Beleive it or not the boat is rated for 12 or 1620 pounds. I still try to figure where 12 people could sit. I think my 209 was rated for 12 and it was much larger. I will tell you that with 2 adults in the front of the 197 on a choppy day they WILL get wet once you slow down unless you are REALLY careful. I usually put the people that are getting on my nerves up there for a little "cool" down. I have not experienced the water from the rear. Normally, it is just my wife and son on the boat and we are not loaded down. Our friends have boats so we are lucky.

I've never heard of this water in the vents problem?

Barefooter your boat is SWEET! Do you ever come to Table Rock?!

About the weight - I've had 6 people and gear in my prostar 190 with no problems with water, but I wouldn't put to many more in there at once...

The 197 is rated for 12! I'm impressed, I hadn't noticed that before.

Brad what year is your 190, it looks just like the '87 a buddy had down at SIU for a couple of years.

Did anyone see the Centurion T5? It is one of the few boats allowed on our lake that isn't $50,000.

Tim, I looked at the T5, but if you are interested we are selling our LaPoint Promo Boat. Pretty much the same boat as the T5, though ours is loaded while that boat at the dealers was pretty plain. For more information on this get back to me at nickh@ksu.edu. This boat will also fall into your lake rules I would assume.

Tim

You will see much more of the T5 at LSL.
A young couple bought it from Clarks
Assuming nothing funny happens at the board meeting the boat should be approved for the lake.
It is well within all of the LSL rules.

They added a tower and perfect pass and where no where near 50k. or even 40K for that matter.

Nicks boat would also be a good choice although you would have to get the board to approve it. It does meet all the criteria for LSL
Awsa approved 20'8" and under 2900 lbs

A few pictures of the St Louis Boat show
Since I was helping in the Centurion booth
thats about all the pictures I got

Nice display Kevin. Do you have any other shots of the Tornado with the barfoot boom on it?

This is the only other shot I got

Those centurions list to one side really badly

Kevin,

The Enzo was awesome, I was glad I got a chance to see it. Hated the colors on the grey and yellow boat though!

You where not alone :-)

I did have some people say they loved it go figure

I assume you understand why.............

They have the ballst set up for wakesurfing

Ha ha, good call.

Sort of a hijack-

The cable guy today recommended Table Rock and Beaver as good lakes to visit. Had thought about spending a week in NE OK (ie Grand Lake). Clearer water further north? I was also disappointed with the Centurion showing in OKC a few weekends ago. I would of liked to have seen a Tornado (a no show), also realized my '95 Falcon has the same hull as several of the "new" boats... The Enzo is also over priced... I'd post my pics of yellow and white but I deleted them at the show...

Actually your Falcon hull has been retired for the first time this year. The Sport BowRider (the old Falcon hull) is no longer built in the North Carolina Plant. The Eclipse is no longer it also had a version of the Flacon hull. The only thing that even comes close any more is the Tornado.

What boat did you think had a Falcon hull???

I thought my dealer had a great deal on the 23' Enzo 45K boat show price with Storm II package and many other options.

Doug H, I would recommend Table Rock and Bull Shoals, I think Beaver is too small for much of a vacation. Table Rock has a little more action, but good water, while you pretty much have the run of the lake at Bull Shoals.

According to the factory rep, Pete, this is the first year Centurions are made on the East Coast. Maybe I misunderstood and he meant from new molds. I'll get to the shed this weekend and take a pic but this one looks awfully familiar.

Nick, thanks for the info. Just wanted to get away for a few days. Eufaula and Texoma are just as dirty as Thunderbird. Powell is too far and a bit too expensive this year...

Mine doesn't have those scratches....

The North Carolina plant has been up and running for 3 1/2 years or so. A good friend of mine is the plant manager.

The spray relief pockets are on 3 boats
the Lighning, T5 and Tornado but that is only
part of the hull.

I would also recomend Table Rock and Bull Shoals

Kevin,

That young good looking couple was me and my wife, you did say good looking didn't you? I never buy anything on the spur of the moment, so I was looking for some validation. We are extremely excited and can't wait until we can get it in the water. I leave to go to the boarding school on Feb 22, so I don't know how long I can wait when I get back.

I appreciate all the help I got from you, the Centurion Rep, and the people at Clarks. They will definately be recommended at the Lake.

Tim

I must have misunderstood the rep. No sweat.

The Enzo at OKC was well over 50k. The best deal I spotted was a Launch with ballast, tower, racks, stereo, EFI motor, cover, extended warranty for 38k from Norris Marine. I like Centurions, was just disappointed with their showing, only 3 boats on trailers all lined up... Kevin, your display is much cooler. Maybe I should hit St. Louis next year.

Glad to hear it Oh yes that good looking thing to :-)
I think the boat will be great for you and others at the lake. It is a great fit for the lake and the rules that you guys have.

What boarding school are you going to?

Thanks Clarks spent a lot time this year trying to make the Centurion booth look Great!

I am going to http://www.theboardingschool.com

(Message edited by suckbuthavefun on February 12, 2004)

(Message edited by suckbuthavefun on February 12, 2004)

I think their website is down. It is the one run by Shuan Murray and Travis Moye.

I should have know it would be to Shauns place sounds like a blast i could use the help

Kevin, who all was there representing Centurion? I didn't see Thayer, that guys always makes it a party!

Rick the Centurion Rep. Robert was here last year.
I was there and couple of long time Clark ski friends also helped out in the booth