Chaparral Xtremes vs. Inboard Tow Boats

yeah, it sure will ^^

I may get a suit of armor and give it a whirl...

If you swivel the seat to face the rear do you get locked in the head? Anyone seen Suzie?

They have a disclaimer at the begining that say's surfing and boarding are dangerous and should not take place behind the boat.That pretty much resolves them of any wrong doing.
So what there saying is that they know its wrong but do it anyway with no regard for the safety of the ignorant people there advertising too.
Criminal if you ask me.

PS(crack is bad for you but its safe to smoke it and it taste good)

No one gotten in tuch with chaparral direct yet to give them a heads up? seems like its only fair for them to come on here and give their point of view.

At the end of the say, they may learn something, so may we, and it would clear up any confusion going down here.

What all states make it illegal to surf behind an i/o? To be honest I haven't seen any laws directed at the sport of surfering specific.

I know in Utah you are technically breaking the law because when you are within a specific distance of someone in the water you have to be at wakeless. I don't think they enforce it though.

All I know is last summer I accelerated down the wake and back up to try an air, when I fell off of the surfboard, my foot went under the platform and I kicked the back of the transom.
People seem to think that you can’t hit the back of the boat unless it stalls, it is not the case

Hitting a big land gap or grinding a dock or a rail in 18 inches of water without a helmet is Bad A, but surfing behind this is too dangerous???? A person that knows how to surf well would have a very low probability of mixing up their appendages with the prop, probably lower probability of getting jacked up than some of the crazy stuff done on solid objects posted here. I think both are too dangerous for me or my kids, but see a bit of irony on what is considered 'stupid' risky.

(Message edited by bmartin on January 27, 2009)

Do you really think people that know how to surf well will be in the market for an IO?

See the post above yours. You crash a WB in 8 in of water, there is not a sharp metal thing spinning around under you that could take your leg or life. Thats a bad comparison.

I din't compare it to wake riding in 8' of water which I do think is safer.

No I do not think core wakesurfers are considering this boat, just pointing a bit of irony on how risks are viewed.

That is the problem, the people who would buy this are Warriors... that means there is a lot higher chance of them getting into a bad situation and getting chopped up.

Having had a very close call experience with this, I'm not willing to work off of just a "low probability" when it comes to mixing appendages with propellers.

"They have a disclaimer at the begining that say's surfing and boarding are dangerous and should not take place behind the boat.That pretty much resolves them of any wrong doing.
So what there saying is that they know its wrong but do it anyway with no regard for the safety of the ignorant people there advertising too.
Criminal if you ask me.

PS(crack is bad for you but its safe to smoke it and it taste good)"

That disclaimer wouldn't hold up if it came down to it.

And Brit Rider, they know that the boat isn't safe, hence the disclaimer. Poor marketing of a poor product. and I'm sure they're reading this...

You nailed it Andy, for the longest time in the back of my mind I always thought I/O's were a "low probability" unless the boat stalled .... until I touched the transom on my inboard. It scared me so bad that I was going to stop any surfing behind my inboard. It wasn't until I hung from the platform and tried to get past the rudder and touch the prop with my foot before I would surf again.

We need to remember that as you progress from just cruising to trying tricks you need to accelerate towards the boat... and anything can happen.

someone last year posted a picture of a persons arm that got caught up in the prop while they were wakesurfing. If YOU have the picture, posted it and I think it would explain everything.

If I remember correctly, I believe that photo is an accident from working with heavy machinery, not wakesurfing. Although, if the prop doesn't take off your hand, I imagine the damage done would resemble that of the picture's or worse. That photo is more disgusting than the one recently posted in "Non-wakeboarding Discussion" of a guy's bloody shin popping out his skin.

When it comes down to it, I really don't know. But, I'm pretty sure the propeller did this:


And the i/o drive unit did this:


I got as lucky as you're ever going to get. You couldn't even tell by looking at me today but I was within a nat's hair of loosing an appendage or worse. That's as closer than I ever want to get again.

I consider it a "mulligan" on at least one of my 9 lives. Got a few left and planning on keeping them.

Remember guys, Chaparral's Marketing Department and R&D are two different depts.
I agree 100% that the video is ridiculous in showing wakesurfing, but to call it a poor product is ignorant. I bought my current boat, a 08 Sanger V-215 after trading in my 2002 Chaparral. My dealer is both a Sanger and a Chaparral dealer, so when I bought my Sanger, I did test drive the Xtreme also, and honestly....it was SICK, but I too have kids that are more into wakesurfing, and the Sanger was a better choice for us. (although when driving across Lake Powell this summer, I did miss it!) As far as quality though, you really won't find a better built boat than a Chaparral. My $.02!
}

"By Dave Broderick (nosebleed) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 2:35 pm: Edit Post Delete Post
I love how they claim to be innovators and are what... 6 years behind MC and the pickleforks. idiots."


No offense but was this quote serious? I could not detect sarcasm here. MC did not start pickleforks. They just made them cool. pretty sure Chaparral was one of the first to put a pickle on more conventional boats and pickleforks have been popular on jet boats for years.

99% sure VLX is right on that....

Socalsurf, agreed... I don't think the company intended years ago for people to be surfing behind them... As far as I can dell they are the "mastercraft" of I/o's..... top notch quality, and great at what they do.

The marketing guys are foolish

I used to have a 78 Invader tri hull I think it was the first pickle fork boat. I did check out the Xtreme st the boat show (Gthomas)is right the
quality is outstanding. Cobalt also makes a simalar boat. The bottom line is they are great runabouts but for pulling DD or Vdrive is the only way to go .

^^^ Cobalt. Maybe that was the one I was thinking of. Thanks Mike. Well I know it was one of those two.

Sanger has had V-drive and pickle fork boats since the early 70's - at least.

Of course, the forked front end was for stability, not to seat 6 comfortably...

Most inboards have an 8.1 in them? Haha what a joke.

That logo looks familiar too, kinda like they ripped off Malibu and slapped a dirty red X on top.

(Message edited by jtnz on January 27, 2009)

I have at least 20 friends that own their own boats and none of them have a 8.1L in them.

According to their website, they only offer the 8.1 in the 26' and 28'. The 22' and 24' come with a 5.7 320hp. I drove the 24 and it ran great.....but the wake for surfing was no bueno.

Here you go lifetime,
1977 Sanger V-Drive picklefork.


}

Chris thats a beautiful boat. What river in ok was that? I know it's not anywhere near okc thats for sure.

badd ass.

I was referring to how MC showed the merits of the tri-hull/picklefork was good for tow sports. In the video they made it sound like Chaparral had invented the bow ladder.

On that same note MC acts like they invented the pickle fork which in reality was out in the 60s long before MC exsisted , and then was reintroduced by Cobalt before MC. Kind of like the chicken and the egg, which came first?

I have been lurking for a long time but I registered just to post to this thread.

The guy that started this thread using an alias and a lie is a real piece of work. He has the audacity to come on here pretending to be a potential boat buyer when in fact he is a boat salesman trying to promote some imitation wakeboard boat.

Hey buddy, why don't you pay for advertising like any other reputable business. If you look at the top of the page you will see advertising from businesses that advertise the right way.

I don't know Dave Williams but I am sure that this site costs money and time to run. For you to abuse this site by sneaky advertising is like stealing. The owner of this site should be compensated for advertising. Losers like this Derek Watson obviously lack any form of integrity. I hope he never sells another boat.

Sorry for the rant but I am just sick and tired of seeing other people take advantage and trying to get something for free.

So Derek, did you get what you didn't pay for?

I'd venture to say that this thread worked the opposite than intended.

one of the best threads in a while, owned. At least it's freaking xtreme, that should sell a bunch of them

8 hrs 'till I storm the chapp booth...

RED TEAM GO! RED TEAM GO!

After reading this thread it has been very entertaining. Especially the posts about the on board head. If the purpose of the thread was to attract attention it succeeded. Unfortunately
it has spotlighted the dangers and shortcomings
of the boat. Same thread on a IO forum mite have been more successful. Still the wakesurfing is illresponsible. People that own inboards don't buy IOs why go backwards?

(Message edited by mhunter on January 30, 2009)

I really believe Chapparal will have a law suit on it's hands the moment someone is hurt surfing behind this boat and rightfully so.

Does anyone have a link or reference to the claim that surfing behind an I/O is illegal in FL or any other state?

OMG! Those vids are soooo full of crap! Wakesurfing??? Right! If you want to end up like hamburger. The kicker was the chick coming from the head with a mag. I busted out laughing when I saw that! I would never surf or let my friends surf behind that thing! And if someone catches me trying beat my @$$ for being stupid!

I feel the need to chime in here.
I want to make perfectly clear that I sell Chaparral boats.
I also have been fairly well recieved as a sales person for Malibu, MasterCraft, Nautique, and (most recently) Supra and Moomba. Over the past 15 years, I have sold thousands of tow boats.
I have been impressed with the Sunesta Xtreme. It has a pretty darn good wake for what it is.
And to be honest, the majority of users on this website are not the target market for this boat.
What Chaparral has done over the past 5 years is to be innovative. They have introduced new and exciting style and technology to an industry that has become increasingly redundant.
Is the pickle fork new, of course not. But adding a pickle fork to the bow of a v bottom runabout,breaking said sponson off and back into the hull prior to the sponson reaching the running surface...that is innovative.
Anyone can add a wakeboard tower to a boat...that in itself doesn't make said boat a wakeboard boat.
I think Chaparral deserves some credit for taking the next step. By adding the style, perfect pass, ballast, and trim tabs (to help shape the wake and overcome the reverse chine that runabouts employ for better lift and ride) and give some pop to the wake.
As for the video, it does have an slight air of propoganda....but it also has some truths.
For the most part, storage is lacking in wake boats. There are a good number of wakeboard boats that have little to no ability to store a wakeboard with bindings, let alone securely.
In my opinion, the target market for this boat is the buyer who sped out and bought a true wake boat mostly becuase it wake boarded well.
Folks rushed out and boat a boat that didn't offer the stroage that they really wanted....a boat that didn't ride particularly well...that doesn't have the features that a family may actually require.
To be sure, a hardcore wakeboarder is highly unlikely to buy a Chaparral Xtreme.
A guy who bought a wakeboat only to find that it doesn't do many of the things that he wants or needs his boat to do is.
I have to tell you, I have owned a bunch of tow boats. My kids are mostly to the age where they do their own deal. Having a great riding, and great performing boat is more important to me now.
Its a great bonus that when the kids stop by, they can get a pretty good pull behind the boat that my wife and I love to own!
Isn't that really what is important? Regardless of what boat you like or own?

(Message edited by kid_yacht on February 10, 2009)

^^^ Yes, but saying that you can wakesurf behind that boat is just wrong! Sorry, but the company is asking for lawsuit after lawsuit with that one.

I have wakesurfed behind the boat...so I myself can say that you can wakesurf behind a 244 Xtreme.
There is inherent danger in any type of outdoor sports. It is possible to burn your lips on hot coffee.
I think that if you actually measured the furthest most point on the rear platform to the highest prop surface, there is a VERY small difference between the 244 and a comparable tow boat.
Showing a picture of a Stingray boat (a boat who's design puts the drive very far outboard) with no platform is generalizing sterndrive boats.
Also showing a picture of the drive up and props at their highest point is misleading.
Chaparral employs an extended V Plane hull, which puts the actual power plant forward of the rear transom significantly over other sterndrive boats.
I think we all have to admit that any object going forward in the water is difficult. (unless it has a motor bolted to it) And the closer to the propulsion, the more difficult it becomes.
Wakesurfing as a whole has its dangers, but to make it sound like suicide to attempt wakesurfing is irresponsible as well.

^ saying what you are saying is just irresponsible. Selling a boat to someone by "tricking" them of what it can do commpared to what it should do is terrible... but then again I wouldn't expect much more from someone who has surfed behind an I/O.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the boat is a great boat, but it should NOT be used to surf with.

I just found this thread. my good friend is the GM at Sun Country. I CAN NOT WAIT to talk to him about this. poor bastard has no idea the pain I am going to bring him because of this. this totally made my week.

Ignoring the grammar, and the weak stab at my character....I am curious where your measurements come from.
And which inboard has a cage?
I will give you style points for the excellent illustration though!

and i know my picture has poor grammar.

(Message edited by sidekicknicholas on February 10, 2009)

Bob,

If you sell this boat to be wakesurfed behind, I hope you sleep well at night. I wouldn't be able to.

Inboard cage = Rudder + fiberglass + Teak -- if you can manage to get through all those and hit the prop, bravo... you're unlucky

I/O = maybe part of a swim platform -- if you can get to the prop, good, you're not completely retarded and have eyes.

Surfing an I/O is an instant darwin award

^^^^Agreed!

Bob your failing. You talk about misleading images and the Sunsetta adds are nothing but misleading. Look at the platform they show for the inboard in the image in Keith's post. Go check out a platform on today's wake boats and see if they are that cramped. Then you talk about generalizing I/O's, is not that exactly what chaparral did with towboats? You gotta just stick to exactly what the chaperral is better for and that is taking the mother-inlaw out on. That is it though. In pretty much every other way it fails.

wow. bob.

so you really don't get that an inboard prop is in FRONT of the RUDDER which is in FRONT of the TRANSOM which means it's placement is UNDERNEATH the HULL????

do you really not understand that a surf board can slip forward while riding at 10mph and hit the BACK OF THE DAMNED TRANSOM??? If it happens on my boat, who cares - i didn't come close to the prop. If it happens on yours, you just rode the board OVER A SPINNING PROP.

I don't care one bit about marketing a runabout to the so-called 'extreme' market. go for it. they won't be on the water when I am at sunrise.

but to think that you are safe surfing behind an I/O is stupid. so be it. to each his own stupid self. however, to market and sell that boat to the person who doesn't have a clue is sick. i hope selling these boats comforts you when the first family accident happens.

Bob, Bob, come on man, are really drinking the purple koolaid, I/O's ARE NOT FOR SURFING. To say otherwise is bordering on ........ well I don't want to take a stab at your character!

Let me say first that it would be very irresponsible to surf behind an I/O. I also know it is a leap that I believe people should be responsible and accountable for their actions therefore I don't have a problem if a promo says surf behind it. E.G. would you jump off a bridge if someone told you to? Again responsibility and common sense go a long way.

That said I've looked at this boat and for what it is it is a great set up for the non-hardcore wakeboard. Personally - family of 4 - I usually spend 4 hours boarding in the morning, couple hours tubing, and hours anchored in the cover swimming and relaxing. So for 'water sports' this boat is a great set up; size, storage, swim deck, etc. Price aside, I'd buy one. Again, I am not the hardcore wakeboarder as we have to much baseball, soccer, golf, skiing, snowboarding, motocross, volleyball, and oh yeah work to really focus on.

I appreciate that many on this board have the passion to defend the 'classic/hardcore' nature of wakeboarding (read to include wakesurf too) and wakeboard only crowd but I am astonished at how indignant some are toward a boat and change.

T

Nick, your picture is priceless.

Bob said, "I also have been fairly well recieved as a sales person for Malibu, MasterCraft, Nautique, and (most recently) Supra and Moomba. Over the past 15 years, I have sold thousands of tow boats."

Bob- Not being able to put two and two together with a simple illustration ABOUT BOATS YOU HAVE SOLD, makes me wonder how you have been selling boats successfully for over 15 years. I thought this whole discussion was common sense...I guess not.

Ok, Ok....I give.

I agree that wake surfing behind a sterndrive is not as safe as an inboard.

I think that you are missing the message on the platform illustration. The Sunesta utilizes a rear facing seat, making better use of the swim platform. Its' lower proximity to the platform makes for a more user friendly use of space.

Like I said, this boat isn't specific for hard core riders. It is, however, much more than a runabout with a tower.

As for the price, there are numerous reasons why a Chaparral is priced the way it is. And they do bring a level of quality that most other manufacturers' do not.

I checked out an extreme at the boat show this past weekend. If you really are buying that to wakeboard you are an idiot. Crusing around trying to look cool maybe, but thats not a good boat for wakeboarding and especially for surfing.

You have to be an idiot to think a I/O is safer, surfing behind that you are just asking for something to be chopped off.

Bob says: "I agree that wake surfing behind a sterndrive is not as safe as an inboard."

No, you don't get it. Wakesurfing behind an I/O is stupid. Other than that, I don't think any of us care how the boat is marketed and what it is/does.

Its made of Kevlar and ...its got bits of real panther in it; so you know its good...

HAHA, Dave that made me laugh!

The Xtreme throws a big wake 60% of the time; everytime.

"Also showing a picture of the drive up and props at their highest point is misleading."

Say I was one of the many customers looking for a wakeboat/surfboat and was mislead by the advertisements that over state what this boat really is. I would probably also try trimming up the motor a couple of degrees to produce a bigger wave. Anyone who has driven an inboard knows that this makes the wake bigger.

For those with FreshAirExhaust,you also have it blocking you from the prop.

I don't know how I would pass the winter months without threads like this.

Thank you Dave Williams.

I agree, I just killed a ton of time on this thread. Thanks!

Can someone explain to me how looking at a boat at a boat show is the ultimate approval for a boats wake boarding ability?
Just curious.

How much do one of these chaparral xxtremes cost? Why doesnt chapstick just make an inboard & trash the I/O?

Bob since your a die hard chap guy, but know alot about inboards you should update your chap ceo's on all your experience with inboards, maybe they'd get it!

No I/O handles like a inboard, IMO. But please do not surf behind any I/0 thats just plain stupid. Nice that they want to target wakeboarders, but I am sure the cost is comparable to an entry level V-Drive. Most everyone I know would rather buy a tow boat if their finances permit it. I am sure it is a nice boat, but not for the same price as a V-Drive.

Honestly, Chaparral relied very heavily on advice and suggestions from many people in their dealer and manufacturing population to form this new series of boats. People who have a very long history of success in tow boats.
224 Xtremes can be bought in the mid to low 60's. That isn't at all out of line for 20' wakeboats of high quality.
And as a sales person for many years, the question has come up a lot about why wakeboard boats don't have a head. Most are equipped with a pump out porta potti or a vacu-flush head, so cleanup is done at a marina with a pump out.
Guys, I understand as well as any the dedication to this sport and its hardware. Because someone has a new idea or someone else considers buying it...that alone doesn't constitute these folks being "idiots".

Bob, I've commented on Chaparral being good boats. My wife would be really happy if our boat had a head but I don't know if we'd give up storage to get it. Maybe.
The part that irks me is the specific way that this particular campaign is misdirecting information. It's philosophy doesn't speak well of the company. To claim that your boat has great features is one thing. To claim that inboard marketing is a sham is something quite different.

And, since no one has done it yet... Welcome to WakeWorld. We actually are glad you're here.

I think Chapparal's are good cruisers, they aren't core wakeboard/surf boats. There are several items that are misleading. I wouldn't want a head, and the headaches that those involve. Handling is inferior (except in reverse) wake is inferior, this is just a theory and it may not be true but doesn't the fact that gases are added to the wake make it bigger but softer, (like a jet-puffed marshmallow)

Idiots might be too much. Just mislead from all the false information in the ad and im sure the false info the dealers are throwing out there.

For 60 Thousand you can a Nautique or Malibu

Is Bob Soven riding for them????

no Bob Soven got 6K to hang out during that commercial for 1 hr. He rides for Nautique. Phillip his older brother just saw the ad at the dallas boat show and called his brother to give him grief about it.

I dont care what Chaparral promises , there is just on comparison to an inboard for ease of coming out of the water for a rider to maintaining that speed, even without PP, the fuel usage of an IO is not even close, by comparison, and the maintenance is lot higher .
I will wait to see the results of a wake test , because Im willing to bet that will be no comparison either,and Im not talking about how big the wake is, Im talking about shape. There has yet to be an IO that comes close to the performance of the lowest price entry level Inboard , so why pay that amount of money for a Chapararral.

Im a Sea Ray and Centurion dealer. Iv got both sides of the debate. Sea Ray builds a Fussion boat wake tower smart tow everything a wake board boat has set back drive under platform. Anyone that sells or even hints a outdrive boat as a surf boat should be shot on the spot. I surf alot Iv smacked the back of the boat before. Thank God for Vdrive. The trouble I see is missed informed customers. Alot of people are just now seeing surfing and have no ideal the danger involved. It is the job of manufactures and salesman to keep are sport safe. MY .02

Can't be mad at Bob Soven for making 6k in a hour!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ken - THANK YOU for showing us that there is reason out there. We all have our beef with certain things, but I really don't think this group cares too much about who buys what. Chapparal has done a great job marketing - good job, power to 'em. I could care less who buys what and how good the wake is or if it is a jet ski or tuber. So be it, we all share the same lake (oh, and fisher peoples )

But don't market this boat as a surf boat. Thankfully there are reasonable dealers out there that aren't solely caught up in making a buck. Educate your buyers, tell them they could lose a hand or a face if they so much as think about surfing behind this boat and then tell them to go have fun wakeboarding and doing whatever with their purchase.

I made a mistake and transposed those numbers. 1K for 6 hours. Stupid dyslexia.
I would tell you I prefer a head to regular plumbing for that kind of money!!!

The only problem I have with that whole promotion video is the wakesurfing. Those videos totally reminds me of a late night infomercial, where there is no unbiased research in regards to testing the two boats, but heck that is the way they choose to market it and it is their choice to do so. Personally I would never buy that boat but to each his own.

I would say this though, I can tell you that I will never buy a Chapparal, not that I ever would, but I would go so far as to say that I will tell everyone that I know never to even think about buying a Chapparal or any Chapparal product. The reason being that they would promote that as wakesurfing boat. What they should have said, if they wanted that infomercial to look more credible, is that the one area that inboard boats beat the Chap is in the area of wakesurfing. They should then have warned that nobody should ever surf behind and I/O even though this particular boat has a swim step that looks like it covers the prop. A company that markets a dangerous activity like that as if it were safe is totally unethical. It reminds me of when cigarette companies used to fight that smoking isn't bad for you and doesn't lead to cancer.

Something tells me the Chap will end up getting sued. Someone will get hurt or killed wakesurfing behind that boat, and all a lawyer is going to need to do is show that nice infomercial in court. And that message before that the whole thing will not hold up. It kind of sounds like a bait and switch.

A 20 minute video promoting all this cool/fun stuff you can do behind this boat preceded by a 10 second flash on the screen saying that you shouldn't do these things because they are dangerous. Hey look at all this fun stuff you can do behind this $60k boat, come buy our boat but you shouldn't do any of this fun stuff we just showed you.

Chapparal can advertising what ever they want but my big fear here is that someone will get hurt wakesurfing behind an I/O and it will then be outlawed by the government.

We have already come close to having it outlawed due to carbon monoxide issues. What if someone die or is seriously injured by hitting the prop.

Most legislators will not spend the time to differentiate between an I/O and an inboard, they will just ban it period.

I disagree with Bob's assessment that "Because someone has a new idea or someone else considers buying it...that alone doesn't constitute these folks being "idiots"." If you are going to wakesurf behind an I/O you are an idiot. For you to misrepresent this to potential boaters who may not know any different is just plan wrong as you know better.

I have owned both an I/O and now a direct drive. I know that my kids and their friends do not use one tenth of the capability of the direct drive. We would do just fine by putting a tower on my old I/O.

I have no problems with Chapparal going after the wakeboard segment its about time. I believe that increased competition will improve everyone.

I am just against the implication that one can safely wakesurf behind an I/O. I am afraid that this will cause the sport to be banned for everyone.

"Can't be mad at Bob Soven for making 6k in a hour!!!!!!!!!!!!"


No but I bet Correct Craft is...

Problem solved, Wakesurfing options for IO's





Just for the record, I've seen Wakeboard Magazine and Alliance Magazine publish pictures of both amateurs and pro wakeboarders doing thing ALLOT more dangerous and irresponsible than wake surfing behind an IO. Where’s all the public outrage towards them? Beside I thought wake sports were considered EXTREME sports.

This has nothing to do with if I personally believe people should be wake surfing behind IO’s. I just find it funny that most of you have double standards when it come to companies or brands. Just my two cents.

OH and by the way, I do work for an inboard boat company.