Wakebarding in San Diego - RED ALERT!!!

Bruce Hubbard was right:
http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/1/506852.html

If we want any fresh water wakeboarding within an hour's drive THE TIME TO ACT IS NOW!

SOCALWSA
Southern California Water Sports Association

News Letter 10/8/07

The City of San Diego Water Contact Recreation Program is about to be eliminated PERMANENTLY.
The Mayors new streamlining and Business Process Reengineering (BPR) plan reviewed the Reservoir Recreation Program and gave the Mayor several options. They ranged from closing all the reservoirs completely to leaving the program as is.
The Mayor is supposed to choose one this week and have his recommendation to the City Council. It will then be placed on the Council Meeting Docket this month.
Unfortunately it is believed the plan chosen intends to close the Water Contact Program, eliminate all the Lake Staff and Rangers, install Iron Rangers, (a lock box to insert fishing permit money on an honor system) and open the lake's to fishing only.
All this to save money. Well here's the numbers
City Budget ---------------------------------------------- 2,885,852,756.00 yes that's 2.8 BILLION and can be viewed at http://www.sandiego.gov/budget/proposed/vol1.shtml
Parks and recreation 2008 budget ------------------------ $114,230,889.00
Reservoir Recreation Budget ----------------------- $3,415,015.00
Estimated Costs for Water Contact Program portion ------------ $550,000.00
Estimated Revenues from Water Contact Program ------------- $370,000.00
Net cost ----------------------------------------------- $180,000.00
Not what I'd call a huge savings to eliminate a program that's been around over 20 years and has a positive impact on the economy small business and jobs in San Diego
What can we do?
Please contact the Mayors office and the City Council Members in protest ASAP.
Mayor’s office info: http://www.sandiego.gov/mayor/
City Council info: http://www.sandiego.gov/citycouncil/
The City Council meets every Monday and Tuesday. Their Docket can be viewed at the City Council Info page. Note: Under Council Meeting Docket (Agenda) there is a Public Comment Form. Once the Item reaches the Docket we need to attend the meeting in force and utilize the Public Comment form in protest.
We will try and e-mail the date of the meeting once we find out.


Second Issue: A replacement site for the Water Contact Program at San Vicente once the Lake closes for the Reconstruction Project.
The latest schedule has the Lake reopening in May and closing for the duration of the construction July 1st /08. That happens to be the beginning of the new Fiscal Budget Year. Hmm?
Currently the city has no intentions of opening a replacement Reservoir, such as Otay, to accommodate the closure of San Vicente for the 5 to 10 years the lake will be closed.
The San Diego County Water Authority has been doing it's best to inform the public of the upcoming closure. Info can be viewed at http://www.sdcwa.org/infra/cip-esp.phtml
The City has not seen any complaining from the public regarding the closure. Theirs going to have to be some complaining in order to get them motivated. It shouldn't take too much. They have already looked at the possible options and Otay would probably be the best choice but we need to speak up or nothing is going to happen.
Please forward this to everyone you know.
If you have any suggestion or comments and or would like to be included in future updates e-mail us at: socalwsa@cox.net
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Andy, this is big news and we DO have a voice in the decisions made by our elected officials. But you are right, we HAVE to take the time to express our views with those who have the decision. I just followed your links and sent the following e-mail message to all 7 District representatives and the Mayor. I'm only one guy. They need to hear from a bunch of us. (By the way, using copy/paste, it only took me a minute or so to get this message out to all of them).

"Water Contact Program at City Lakes I just learned that there is a proposal to eliminate water contact at the City lakes. I think that this is short sighted in light of the proposed cost savings to the City. Every time I visit San Vicente Reservoir with my family of 6, we buy gas, food, snacks, supplies for our day on the lake. That represents some tax revenue to the City. Without the ability to swim, we would go elsewhere -- most likely even leave the state and limit our boating to the Colorado River out of Arizona. That's bad for the state too.

I urge your office to study this issue a bit further before you make a bad decision. Simply open up any boating magazine and you will find pictures of families enjoying themselves on AND IN the water. Boating is not boating if you can't jump in!"

Here's what I sent and the e-mail addresses. Use whatever you want, copy, plagiarize, edit, I don't care. Just get an e-mail off. Here are the e-mail addresses:

jerrysanders@sandiego.gov; scottpeters@sandiego.gov; kevinfaulconer@sandiego.gov; toniatkins@sandiego.gov; anthonyyoung@sandiego.gov; bmaienschein@sandiego.gov; donnafrye@sandiego.gov; jmadaffer@sandiego.gov' benhueso@sandiego.gov

Mayor Sanders and the City Council,

While I am currently a resident of Poway, I own a business that operates in the City of San Diego and have lived in the City for many years prior to moving to Poway.

Prompted by information from many of us that are keeping track of the San Vicente Dam Raise and the City of San Diego Water Contact Recreation Program, I am writing to express my deep concern about the rumored possibility of the City discontinuing all water contact on City reservoirs, specifically, San Vicente (and any possible water contact replacement) and El Capitan.

The effect of such a closure on the recreation activities of my family and many of my boating friends would be devastating. During about 9 months of the year, my boys and I use San Vicente and/or El Capitan an average of two weekends a month or more. It’s a healthy, family oriented activity that is part of the San Diego lifestyle as well as being valuable in teaching kids responsible, safe and fun use of water & boating. Eliminating the Water Contact Recreation Program would be devastating because it would leave us with alternatives that are more than an hour away such as Lake Elsinore or the Colorado River which entails an entire weekend away. Neither of these alternative locations can be done in half a day and then returning back home to other weekend chores, homework, etc., thus eliminating many boating outings. I estimate that our boating activities would be cut at least in half if the Water Contact Program was eliminated.

Why not use Mission or San Diego Bay? Foremost, Mission Bay on weekends is well known to be a dangerous place to water ski / wakeboard due to crowded conditions and inexperienced boaters. Two examples just this summer: http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/13831238/detail.html?rss=dgo&psp=news

http://www.fox6.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=854ab8b2-8bac-4ee7-8fda-7ea9e1ceb083

I don’t keep track but I haven’t heard of a major injury or death boating accident on a City of San Diego Reservoir in the recent past. Additionally, in an expensive water skiing boat (bought by the way at a City of San Diego business along with significant gear at the same and other City of San Diego businesses) I’ve made the choice to use it exclusively in fresh water and avoid the high maintenance and wear and tear on my investment that would result by boating in the salt water of Mission or San Diego Bay.

Please consider the effect of such a closure decision on the thousands of fresh water boaters in the City and County of San Diego. While we may not have a loud voice yet, there are many, many of us out here that would be SIGNIFICANTLY affected.

I got a bunch of automated responses back after emailing. I hope they read it.

done! and I will go to the meetings when they start for sure, this is retarded!

Here are those addresses comma delimited.
jerrysanders@sandiego.gov, scottpeters@sandiego.gov, kevinfaulconer@sandiego.gov, toniatkins@sandiego.gov, anthonyyoung@sandiego.gov, bmaienschein@sandiego.gov, donnafrye@sandiego.gov,
jmadaffer@sandiego.gov,
benhueso@sandiego.gov

Among other things, I emailed them that they need to remember where they live and start acting like they belong here or we're not going to keep them around much longer

Awesome! Keep it up. Spread the word among all your buddies! If they've even seen your boat in your garage, have them e-mail!

I run my boat in salt, up in Carlsbad, actually. But I like to head out to San V and El Cap every now and then.

Btw, if they give you a load of crap about the water shortage, send them this link: http://carlsbaddesal.com and tell them that's how you run a city

Good stuff! I have sent email to the mayor and City Council as well!

For what it's worth, I have a couple of fishermen friends that frequent San V and El Cap and they are worried too. It might behoove us to team up with them.

Apparently this is where their priorities are:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20070926-9999-1m26ecrally.html

Here is some new info. Please do what ever you can. Attend a council meeting, e-mail again, egg the mayors house.
This is the real deal and we could loose if we do not act.


SOCALWSA
Southern California Water Sports Association

News Letter 10/16/07

There is nothing on the City Council Docket as of yet regarding the Mayors plans to drop the Water Contact Program.
http://www.sandiego.gov/citycouncil/

We did get a response from Donna Frye’s office:
“This issue will be coming before the City Council sometime this fall. Councilmember Frye will take your thoughts into consideration when this item comes before her. Thank you,”

Problem is the docket goes online Thursdays for the following Monday/Tuesday meetings. The Monday meetings are @ 2 PM and Tuesdays @ 10 AM. Not a lot of time to schedule yourself to attend and have your say with regards to items on the docket for that meeting. You must first fill out a form to speak prior to the start of the meeting, or online the day prior.

http://www.sandiego.gov//city-clerk/officialdocs/docketcomment.shtml

However the Tuesday meeting has:
NON-AGENDA PUBLIC COMMENT
This portion of the agenda provides an opportunity for members of the public to address the Council on items of interest within the jurisdiction of the City Council.
Time allotted to each speaker is determined by the chair, however, comments are limited to no more than three (3) minutes total per subject regardless of the number of those wishing to speak. Submit requests to speak to the City Clerk prior to the start of the meeting. No discussion or action can be taken by the Council on any issue brought forth under Non-Agenda Public Comment. (but it puts the bug in their ear).

There is a third attack that can be launched at the Budget And Finance Committee.
They meet on 2 Wednesdays per month @ 9 AM.
They have the same NON-AGENDA PUBLIC COMMENT forum, but they also have a COMMUNICATION REQUEST FORM. If submitted to the City Clerk seven (7) calendar days prior to the Committee meeting, the matter may be placed on the agenda as a scheduled communication and the Committee may discuss the item prior to its appropriate disposition. (difference is they can ask questions and have some discussion regarding the matter).

http://www.sandiego.gov/city-clerk/officialdocs/legisdocs/cccmeetings.shtml - bfc
So, We need to keep a watchful eye and review the City Council Docket or find some time on Tuesdays @ 10 AM or Wednesdays @ 9 AM to be heard.

On a Positive note, there has been a lot of response on several fronts.
· Andy Graham started a discussion board on Wakeworld.com
http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/1/509765.html?1192215105 Check it out and put in you views. Anyone willing to go to the council meeting public comment forum could get hooked up here. Andy also may have some contacts at NBC 7/39 for some possible news coverage. Great Job!

· Bruce Hubbard @ One The Edge Watersports got a lobbyist from SCMA (Southern California Marine Association) to join the battle.
· Another source put us in contact with USA WATERSKI. They e-mailed and wrote a letter to the Mayor and City Council.

· We e-mailed all the news channels for a possible potential story and had a call from channel 10 so far. They wanted to know if we would be willing to meet at the lake as a group to review our story? Well heck yea, so right now it’s a maybe, if it happens we’ll need as many people as possible to show, with as many boats as possible. Remember it’s a WATER SPORTS ASSOCIATION that includes; Skiers, Boarders, Tubers, Jet Skiers, Wind Surfers and yes even Fishermen.


On the Second Issue: A replacement site for the Water Contact Program at San Vicente once the lake closes for the 'reconstruction project.
We went to the California Water Authority meeting on the EIR/EIS (Environmental Impact Report/Study).
http://www.sdcwa.org/
We have been waiting for this to come out, whatever impacts they recognize must be dealt with, or at least some form of mitigation to reduce the impact.
This is just what the report said regarding Recreation.
http://www.sdcwa.org/infra/cip-CSPEIR.phtml
See 3.15 Recreation, pages 10 & 11. The Water Authority sees a significant impact and has asked the city about expanding to another location, however it is unknown whether the city could commit. The Water Authority has money to mitigate the effects of the EIR/EIS. All the City has to do is commit, and a replacement site would be no problem.

The Appendix A, page 8, says “the Water Authority may provide temporary concrete mats to allow access to the reservoir at the lowest levels, during a period of near completion of the dam project”. This would mean not having to wait 3 or 4 years for the reservoir to fill up to launch a boat. All that is necessary is for the City to ask for it.

And by the way we’re not making this up, this is what we were verbally told at the meeting by the SDCW lead engineer.

Again the only measure for success is action. Contact the City Council regarding both issues. Try and attend a council meeting.
Any ideas e-mail us, or check out the discussion board @ WAKEWORLD.COM. (great website) There are some pretty enthusiastic supporters there.

Please forward this to everyone you know.
If you have any suggestion or comments and or would like to be included in future updates e-mail us at: socalwsa@cox.net

Copy of letter; I would have uploaded a copy but it's on their letterhead and the file was over 150k

USAWATERSKI
1251 Holy Cow Rd.
Polk City, Florida 33868
1-800-533-2972



October 10, 2007

City of San Diego
Mayor Sanders and the City Council:

I am writing you on behalf of USA Water Ski, national governing body for towed water sports in the U.S., and the Water Sports Industry Association in reference to San Diego Reservoir Water Contact Recreation Program.

Historically the safety record of water skiing has been exceptional, considering the number of people involved and the frequency of participation. USA-Water ski has always made safety the highest priority and continually stay up to date on evolving safety matters. Grassroots education programs are available to all towed water sports enthusiasts regardless of their membership status.

Water skiing in general has shown to have minimal environmental effects. In fact in some areas it has been shown to be beneficial due to the aeration effects on small bodies of water. Details on the environmental impact of the sport are available in the USA Water Ski Waterways Education Manual available on line at USAWATERSKI.ORG.

To update you on where the sport is today, water skiing, for instance, has been a part of the Pan American games since 1995 and it, along with wake boarding, is currently being evaluated for inclusion in the 2012 summer Olympic Games. Tampa Florida has included water skiing on the program in its bid for the 2012 Olympic Games. This world-level exposure for water skiing and wakeboarding is a boon for the sport and its’ continued growth. As growth continues, the demand for quality water ski sites will undoubtedly increase. There are great benefits ahead for communities with the foresight to accommodate the needs of aspiring water ski and wakeboard competitors. The support of public waterways for recreational water sports activity enhances the opportunities for families to recreate together. Please understand that the number of recreational activities that a family can enjoy together is ever decreasing.




Given the current growth rate for the sport, it only seems reasonable to expand and maintain the number of venues available to the general public and promote continued use and development of existing bodies of water. USA Water Ski with its 40,000 members and the Water Sports Industry Association are prepared lend assistance and education whenever and wherever needed to promote the continued expansion towed water sports and related activity.

Water sports activities have both economic and civic benefits to the area population and business. Please consider the continued use of the San Diego reservoir for families and future generations, to enjoy. Remember water skiing, wakeboarding and similar activities are considered one of the true family sports and should be whole heartedly supported.

If you have further questions or would like to discuss how USA Water Ski can assist; do not hesitate to contact me at the number below.

Sincerely,

Leon J. Larson

Leon J. Larson
Chairman, USA Water Ski Waterways Education Committee
(352) 331-5907
llarsonusaws@aol.com

Upload SOCALWS1.doc 3.doc (37.9 k)

Some news coverage would be nice. If you go to the different news channels web sites they have a place to recommend stories to cover. This would be a good place for everyone to visit and utilize.


I'd be in for a trip to the lake for some tv coverage. Can I bring my tube? It holds 3. I'm really good.

We did exactly that to all the local new stations. That's what got the response from channel 10. Try them and the rest. Maybe some more input from others and they'll make up their mind to cover it.

It's pretty easy; the home page has a place for suggested stories. I put "Mayor pulls plug on Reservoir Recreation Program".

You water skiers (SCALWSA) crack me up, for the past 8 years at San Vicente you are trying to kick wakeboarders off the course and now that the lake is being closed and you might lose precious water ways you want HELP from the darkside?

Funny how if you google Southern California Watersports Association it doesn't exist.

Hypocrites

Differences aside, if you want to help the cause great! Thanks for your input Frank, and the socalwsa whoever you are. I dont really care if you are a skier or not. I have ridden with you before and enjoyed both your company and your hospitality. I really appreciate what you are doing to try and help save some of the last bit of water that we have to ride on here in this county. Aki don't generalize this guy with the typical nut job slalom skier, like barefoot boy. He is not one of them. He is legit. Just because he slalom skis doesnt mean he is from the dark side. Any interest in matchin me up on a course soon Frank?

Can WW get me a list of email addresses here in this county or should I go ahead use the rider link and cut and paste every one to send out a blast email to the whole registry of WW. Atleast it's worth a try.

no water contact in the county = no boats in the county = no taxes = no gas revenue = no shops selling wake gear = no jobs for local shops

Anything anyone can do would be well appreciated by all who consider themselves to be part of San Diego water contact.

PEACE!

No generalizing what so ever, all matter of fact.

Signed up 2 days ago, both were and are AGAINST wakeboarders going on the course at any time of the day. Both feel Wakeboarders should not have equal rights as skiers do for water or part thereof.

Frank used his real name and the other is John Opsal.

These same individuals were/are fighting to KEEP WAKEBOARDERS OFF THE COURSE at San Vicente.

The so called SCALWSA was trying to get Lake Murray open for their private use. They went to vote at the La Mesa City councel meeting for water skiing and water skiing only.

Do a little homework and you will see what I mean.

These same individuals will fight to have a section of any lake that is kept open for their use only, they won't want wakeboarders to have the same rights so why would I want to support them?

HYPOCRITES

I didnt know he was so anti wake. You are outnumbered here and everywhere you go these days Frank. Waterskiing is way past its time I guess.

Thanks for clearing that up for us Aki. Now differences aside we cant all just get along now can we? I tried. Sorry Frank. Your waterskiing days in this county are numbered. You are fighting a losing battle. I guess you should join up with fisherman then.

Scars run deep, you're probably lucky you are even posting on this site.

Well since you did your homework Aki, I truly believe you and will gladly stay on the darkside.

See you on Mission Bay Frank!

You would think everyone would want to help. 'Cause if they dont' their waterways are going to be even more crowded than they already are, guess its just part of life so we have to deal.

(Message edited by slipknot on October 19, 2007)

(Message edited by slipknot on October 19, 2007)

Gramps, That you Aki Savage?

Do we need a web site?

Go tell all my buddies who have spent their own time working around the lake, going to city council meetings, meeting with the water department that we don't exist. It was at those meetings we found out about the Mayors plans to eliminate the water contact.

We needed to call group something so we chose SOCAL Water SPORTS Association.
Sports would encompass all aspects of lake usage.

We started the group to get the City to open another Reservoir when they close San V and now were fighting to keep water contact .

As far as keeping boarders off the Slalom Course you do not have your facts straight. You' also full of bs.

Yes we did try to get permission for a slalom course on Lake Murray. It's a very small lake. Along with that we're trying to get Otay open for everyone.

We are also trying to get San V open on Saturdays for the winter.

Dark side? There is no dark side just dark people.

So what have you done but complain?

(Message edited by socalwsa on October 19, 2007)

As usual Aki has his info mixed up.
Anti wake? My boat has a tower and my daughter does back rolls behind it.
I may ski but have no issues with wake boarding.

Slipknot, man thats brutal. I give Aki's homework a D-.

I just called my councilman. I am emailing all members again and the mayor right now.

I will add my .02 of help to the cause. I love to tear up a course just as much as the next guy, who grew up before WB was invented. Slalom, Trick, barefoot, you name it.

Thanks for the added clarification. Tell me when the meetings will be held again?

John...yep that's me

Frank...anti wake...we know the truth.

Aren't you two the same guys that complained to the lakes staff about wakeboarders using the permit area from sunrise to 10:00am. Aren't you the same 2 guys that stated "wakeboarders don't need nice water" Aren't you the same two guys that did doughnuts all over the course one morning because you were pissed all the passes were sold out.

You were against wakeboarding on the permit course and now because the lake is closing you want help from the masses??

Darkside = WAKEBOARDING, come on I even made it easy for you.

Frank so now that your daughter has an interest in wakeboarding it's ok? And what if she wanted to ride the course early in the morning would that be ok or would you tell her she can't?

Either you support it for everyone or you don't support it at all.

John it's not complaining at all, I just want to make sure everyone knows your REAL agenda.

Hypocrites

Slipnot,
Catch a ride with me anytime. I'll be there this weekend first thing on the course. Gray X-7.

As for the council meetings;
Monday @ 2 pm and Tuesday @ 10 am

If this issue is on the docked you can turn in a request to speak before it starts, No one knows when it will come up. The docket agenda is pasted Thursday the week before. Just have to watch and wait.

You can speak on non agenda topics Tuesday's at 10 am. You need to fill out a request to speak prior to the start. 3 minute limit per topic.
There are 2 topics
Water contact and a relocation site for san v when it closes.

The water contact is pretty straight forward. Just the city trying to save money by cutting a program that is vital to some of the small business in the community creates jobs and generates a portion of the tax base.

The relocation has some help if you review the San Diego County Water authority's EIR/EIS report.
It shows a significant impact to the community and recommended relocating the program to another lake but the city would not commit.

It's all in the newsletters

As far as Saturdays; Joe Webber is the rec program director. We have been urging him to give skiers Saturdays since they took away Thursdays and Fridays. Currently it will be fishing only after October. City Lakes Rec Program # 619 465-3474.
Give him a call.

How the hell did this thing turn negative between people who want to keep using SD reservoir water? Gramps, how about looking at the big picture, quit pissing on old grudges and looking FORWARD instead of backward? SCALWSA has been nothing but help in trying to keep our access open. Not sure about you, but I don't want to be driving an hour to Elsinore, or 4 hours to the river. Anyone helping out on that problem I'm with.

No Aki we do not board in the course first session.
My daughter's been boarding since she was 7. She's 22. That’s 15 years of boarding. I had a Conley blade when they first came out back 93. Still have my flight 69 on the wall. Kept it for all the memories. That was the hot board back then. Remember that’s when we both had Maxim boats and thought the bay was it.
Stopped boarding cause it a little hard on the back landing in the flats. Just getting old.

I don't think this arguing is helping anything.
BY, Have a nice life.

i wakeboard at San V every weekend and if you get there early enough, aka sunrise you really dont need to buy some $10 pass. The lake stays pretty decent for at least a few hours. And if by 9am the lake is soo bad that i cant board there's always the wakeboard pass i can go buy. So thats what, one hour out of the 6-10 pass that i actually need for good water? Let the slalom guys have their course...
and gramps have you actually tired slalom skiing? You dont really want any rollers going almost 40mph....
••••• weak.
peace.

Aki has done nothing but "real talk" on here for years. He is a respected member and has nothing to gain by exposing you guys. If he says it, then its truth in my book. Watch out for who you pair yourself with, westcoast. Ive seen in kiteboarding similar partnerships with windsurfing groups that end up with access granted to windsurfers and kiteboarding banned.

Dani, let me guess...Frank's daughter? If you think for a second that San V stays rideable on a summer weekend for a few hours your crazy.

Yes I used to ride the stupid stick until I saw the light.

Wakeboard boat full of people laughing and giggling and having a good time.

Ski boat with one other tight a$$ed person, no laughing, no music, way to serious...

Jason, Thanks for seeing it for what it is truly meant to be...

Gramps

Where in this article does the so called SCALWSA mention anything about any other sport besides skiing??? Does anyone think for a second that this group gives a rats a$$ about anyone but themselves???

Please shed some light on this for ALL of us.

All I see is mention of how quiet their motors are, how small their wakes are....

People please wake up and smell the coffee.

SHORT TAKES: REGIONAL EDITION
Slalom water skiers seek OK to use Lake Murray

July 17, 2007

SAN DIEGO: Rebuffed thus far at every turn, a group that wants to use Lake Murray for slalom water skiing will take its controversial proposal to the Mission Trails Regional Park Task Force tomorrow.



AdvertisementThe Southern California Water Sports Association says it needs a site for slalom skiing while the San Vicente Reservoir is closed for repairs. The Lakeside-area reservoir is scheduled to reopen to skiing after 2012.
The group says slalom skiing produces smaller wakes and less noise than other water skiing, and that it could use one cove of the east San Diego lake without disturbing wildlife or neighbors.

Few others seem to agree. The proposal is opposed by the San Diego Audubon Society, the Lake Murray Recreation Council and Friends of Lake Murray. It has also been rejected by Navajo Community Planners and a citizens advisory committee for Mission Trails Regional Park.

The park's seven-member governing task force consists of elected officials from the county and the cities of San Diego, La Mesa and Santee. It will meet at 12:15 p.m. tomorrow at the City Administration Building, 202 C. St. –C.B.

How about this one.....

Again I see NO MENTION of wakeboarding, tubing, or any other water contact for that matter.

Care to elaborate JOHN.....cricket, cricket....

Water Skiing at Lake Murray Voted Down

Published 07/18/2007 - 9:12 a.m. PDT

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Water Skiing was proposed for San Carlos Cove at Lake Murray

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(Mission Times Courier, San Diego, CA) The Mission Trails Regional Park Task Force, a committee chaired by District 7 Councilmember Jim Madaffer voted unanimously today to oppose water skiing at Lake Murray. The Task Force is comprised of elected officials surrounding Lake Murray including Madaffer as Chair, Councilmember Donna Frye from San Diego; Councilmember Ruth Sterling from La Mesa, Councilmember Brian Jones from Santee and the Chair of the Citizens Advisory Committee for Mission Trails Regional Park, Dorothy Leonard.

John Opsal, president of the Southern California Water Sports Association had requested a permit for slalom skiing in San Carlos cove of Lake Murray. He claimed they would not disturb wildlife, people fishing or the community but the Mission Trails Regional Park Task Force voted him down. The Water Sports Association has been operating at the San Vicente reservoir but their permit there has been rescinded due to scheduled construction at the lake where the County Water Authority plans to raise the height of the dam, increasing our region’s water supply.

Wakeworld, a place to meet and argue.

At least the Socalwsa made an effort to contact the wake community. Props to them for that I guess.

Thanks Frank and Jon for trying.

There is no support of SOCALWSA efforts on these boards from what I am seeing. At least for a few people who simply don't care. I guess we will see them in Mission Bay too, like the old days.

Flame on

a drunk.....blah blah blah

ps. too bad we dont have that lawyer dude Paul Smith on our side, we would win any case vs. the city, county, whatever. The number one all time poster on WW, what ever happened to that dude?

(Message edited by slipknot on October 19, 2007)

(Message edited by slipknot on October 19, 2007)

As someone who does all sports behind the boat I think the pissing match is going to hurt everyones chance of getting another lake to use in SD. I thought all that skiers against boarders was replaced by boarders against wakesurfers. I enjoy all watersports from course skiing (which in certain boats is pretty uptight but not in mine), wakeboarding (do ok for an old mom), wakesurfing and wakeskating. I understand there is a degree of bad vibes down at San V and the rumors were pretty negative a few years ago and I was glad I never had to use the lake.
I think though you should try to work together and bury old negatives. A large collected group is probably more effective than two small negative groups.

amen sista!

yeah forget about wakesurfers!

Thanks for adding some value to the thread.

One collective group would be nice...........but others simply dont see it that way.

Can't we all just get along?

Aki,

With all due respect, I think you're whacking the bees nest here and distracting from the main problem. Even if your opinion has credibility, who's the more urgent problem right now, the SD City Council or SCALWSA? What do I/we care if SCALWSA gets a slalom course open on Lake Murray? They also want to help us keep San V & El Cap open. You gotta have an issue with that because they ride skinner boards rather than fat square ones?

I just want to put my boat in the water, tow the kids and get a ride myself now & then. What's up with throwing a wrench in the fan? How about starting a wakeboarder vs slalom skier thread? Some people just don't have quite enough conflict in their lives.

Hey I got nothing against you. Just wish you'd stop messing up our calm water.

Andy, With all due respect to you to...but

You don't find it funny at all that BEFORE they were talking about closing all the lakes the SCALWSA was ONLY working to get a body of water open for themselves?

You don't find it funny at all that NOW that they are finding out they are talking about closing all lakes for water contact that they NOW want help.

What they were doing was hoping to get access to Lake Murray and if they closed all other lakes, to bad to sad for EVERYONE else, they have their water.

The main problem??? The main problem as I see it is the new person in charge of the city lakes programs doesn't care about YOU, ME or the fence post as long as the lakes get closed, his budget goes down and he doesn't have to worry about it.

Sorry to offend but I guess I can only say "I told you so" and hope for the best.

But as far as going away...

It's not going to happen, if anything I'm going to be more persistent and using your words "whack the bees nest" even more.

Hate on

The water is not calm. Aki knows what he's talking about because he and I have had to deal with these people with lake access issues in the past. If history is any indicator, the day water access is granted on another lake is the day these folks commence their campaign to get rid of wakeboarders. In fact, you can see that they've already begun to throw us under the bus with comments like, "slalom skiing produces smaller wakes and less noise than other water skiing." In case you're wondering, "other waterskiing" is wakeboarding.

But even if that was the only problem, you would be correct in assuming that we should all work together toward a common goal. However, based on the petitions I've seen generated by this group, I believe they could be hurting the cause by not only asking for alternate lake access, but by also asking for special access to particular areas for specific groups (i.e. exclusive area for a slalom course).

Yes, they also specified a "special" area for wakeboarders, but, again, I think the more special interests you're trying to cater to, the more of a problem you're causing. Although it would be great to have, I'm smart enough to know that we'd be lucky enough just to get water access and I would never endanger the goals of my "association members" by asking for something that's only going to hurt the ultimate goal. If I was a politician, I'd look at what they're asking for and kill the whole thing because it's got special interest headache written all over it.

If this group was truly interested in access for all these "watersports," they wouldn't be seeking special priveleges for the extremely small number of people that still require a slalom course and perfect conditions to make going to the lake worthwhile. The bottom line is that they need our numbers to accomplish their goals because their number is right around 30.

Dave Williams for Mayor! Or President.

^^Or Steven Colbert. He'd show 'em who's who.

Who would have know what was bubbling below the surface? Can I delete my thread and go home now?

Yes, it is a shame that all of this had to be aired, but I guess it had to happen sooner or later.

The bottom line is that the suggestions above to contact city officials are good ones. Obviously, we all want to continue to have some fresh water on which to wakeboard. San Diego County has over 3 million residents, and who knows how many tourists, with one of the highest year-round temps in the country, yet we are now down to a limit of 40 boats on the water (El Cap) just a couple days a week. Anyone looking in from any other part of the country or world would be slack-jawed with disbelief at such a situation.

Dave,
Not to beat a dead horse but some of your comments just aren’t true.
We have never proposed getting rid of or kicking off wakeboarding. I actually am offended by the comment.
We went to Joe Webber and proposed 2 lakes for relocation. 0ne for water-skiing and one for wakeboarding. Lake Murray is very, very, small and would barley fit a slalom course and would not be very conducive to wakeboarding. The back area is about 4 feet deep. Since it is managed by the Mission Trails Regional Park they said to start with them. That's where all the news coverage started.
For the meeting with MTRP we had to get sound readings on the boats and wake sizes. So yea we did say water-skiing has smaller wakes than other activities.
In the same breath we were proposing opening Otay also. By the way the discussions with Joe Webber did get the schedule at El Cap extended. Can we get a little credit for something?


You're trying to open a cable park in Santee. Hats off to you. So why all the animosity regarding a slalom course on Lake Murray?

Let's Put this behind and move forward. Bottom line, There is a chance to open Otay but first we have to get past the Mayors BPR plan.

Love to sit down over a couple of brews and discuss.
Regards,
Frank

Dang Dave!

SO SAYETH THE SHEPHERD!....

The fisherman will NEVER let Otay be open for any sort of water contact I can say that MATTER OF FACT.

The fishing contingency in San Diego is powerful, organized and carries a large voice in anything that goes on with local waters. Heck they tried almost succesfully in getting us throw off the permit area.

Frank, I didn't say that you proposed getting rid of or kicking off wakeboarding. I said that if history was any indicator, that is what will happen.

If you look back in San V history, you'll see that wakeboarding did get kicked off the San Vicente morning session on the course and that was a result of the work by you, John and other slalom skiers. You attempted to have us kicked off completely, but we fought tooth and nail to prevent it.

That whole deal is still stuck in my craw in a big way because the ratio of wakeboarders that will use the course to slalom skiers that will use the course is probably around 100:1, yet 100% of the sessions on San V's course are available to this small group and 33% of those sessions are exclusively dedicated to them. Those numbers make absolutely no sense!

I can appreciate your sport and your wanting to continue to do it, but the bottom line is that the number of people that need a slalom course is so ridiculously small that dedicating so many public resources to it just does not make sense for anybody but those few. Not to mention the fact that those resources are, in turn, taken away from the majority.

In a way, I understand that you're doing what you have to do to save your sport. However, if the numbers were reversed, I don't think I'd have the cojones to submit a proposal to the county to get a special use area dedicated to me and a few of my friends.

Remember that we're talking about two different issues here. I'm 100% behind you on the opening of new bodies of water with full and equal access to everyone; skiers, wakeboarders, tubers, hydrofoilers, fisherman, etc. Excellent work on getting the El Cap schedule extended. You definitely deserve a ton of credit for that!!

However, not only can I not get behind you on your requests for special use areas (be they for skiing, wakeboarding or anything), but I believe in the long run you're hurting the majority of your the constituency you claim to represent with the moniker of "Southern California Watersports Association."

Heres your answer for getting your lakes back.

http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65919/474490.html

Unite Guys, Gals and Kid. Otherwise, you still have the river.

I'm always here to help. But remember that I live in San Francisco. So please no more emails on leading the charge. I'm honored

Heres your answer for getting your lakes back.
Read the very last post
http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65919/474490.html

Unite Guys, Gals and Kid. Otherwise, you still have the river.

I'm always here to help. But remember that I live in San Francisco. So please no more emails on leading the charge. I'm honored

San V open on Saturdays Until end of November!
(Supposed to close end of October). That's only another month but it's a start.
We do have a chance for Otay. That comes from people in the (ssh- water department) but time is running out.
The one thing we here is, no one is complaining.
NO squeaky wheel-NO grease.
San Diego Water Authority went to extensive measures to publicize their EIR/EIS Report. The City is on record to having no complaints to their response to the EIR/EIS report witch would be “No Thanks”.


Disputing what others may think, THERE IS A CHANCE!
Opening Otay, Hodges, or ????, for a replacement of San V is a possibility.

I have had disagreements with Aki in the past as many of you know, but Aki is right-on on this one. While I have played Arm-Chair Quarterback, Aki and others have spent many hours actually trying to work with the San Diego Water Authority to enhance freshwater wakeboarding access in the San Diego Area. They know what their talking about. Nothing will change without regime change at the San Diego Water Authority.

No one is complaining about Otay until the Olympic Rowers that train there complain just one time...then it will be absolutely out of the question. And I'm telling you if the fisherman get wind of it...it's over.

Otay lakes was built much like Diamond Valley in Temecula, nice bathrooms, concrete ramp, picnic area...when low and behold people said "water contact in our freshwater reservoir for drinking water" They spoke up, the city shut that down and it hasn't ever been open for water contact.

Besides I for one would be really leary of all the stumps that are cut off in that body of water. There are all kinds of logs and stumps just below the surface.

I will say it again, the new person in office at the lakes program doesn't give a crap about water contact. He is going to do all he can to shut it down, lower his budget and just be done with it.

It's sad, there are 11 freshwater lakes within an hour of San Diego and only 2 that are open PART TIME for water contact. Everyone thought Jim Brown was a GOD for how he handled the program, Jim was in bed with the fisherman and that's why they have ultimate control over how many lakes they can fish on.

One of the lakes staff said flat out "once the water contact program is dead it will be one less headache to worry about"

Sounds like things have toned down a bit. Thanks.

All is not as it would seem. San Diego Water Department controls the Reservoir Rec Program that Jim Brown helped establish. That’s a 200-page story in itself. He's not in the picture any more (retired almost). That's 2 year old info. Try to keep up on current events.

SDCWA has no control over the SDWD.
Yes the SDCWA does not support water contact, but their EIR/EIS regarding San V definitely states a significant impact on the Rec program that San Diego started over 20 years ago and suggests relocation.

Now consider that The EIR/EIS is put together by an independent, did I say Independent, consultant! That’s the part they want to hide.
Environmental Impact Study put together by an outsider. That's required by the FED, they require mitigation on all impacts for the project. The FED needs to be satisfied that all the impacts the study has depicted are mitigated.


Read the EIR/EIS.

As far as Otay, and the Olympic Training Center. I had Jim Barrette (the new guy) checking the Contract between the OTC and the City regarding their usage. For one, they only train when the lake is closed for everyone. The specific question is, how will their rowing course buys be affected. Currently they’re made of plastic milk jugs. He actually was very cordial and responsive. Good politician?

The dock and pick-nick facilities are the same as everywhere else.

The logs only occur at the end of Otay Arm. where the rowing course is. Not wide enough to go down anyway.

http://www.sdfish.com/lakes/otaylower/index.html

Now lets see.
Met with the Water Department (lots). Joe Weber is currently in control. Talked to Jim Barrette regarding opening whatever lake to offset the closure of San V. Took my boat to all the City Reservoirs he had issues with regarding size (to small) to respond to his issues.
Had some discussions regarding possibilities that could happen if the higher ups (Mayor) would permit, but again No Squeak/No Grease.

We pursued Lake Murray knowing it was a no win situation. 1 ,NO, is a future yes someplace. Sorry you got your undies in a bunch, but unless you can ride or ski behind a canoe going 5 mph it's no way. We went to meetings with 4 different groups and 6 arbitration meetings, that’s why the news coverage. What the heck, got nothing better to do.

Went to a San Diego Bass Fishing meeting. Now that was fun!

Yes all this Water-ski, Wakeboard, Fishing issues are taxing on the powers to be.

Ok, let's start up again!
What would you think of a guy who changes his oil and puts his boat in line at the lake for the next day. Next morning puts boat in the lake and boards till the oil filter comes loose. Gets towed back to dock and spends 4 hours with Rangers filing reports and taking picts demanding action because someone sabotaged his boat in line. By the way they still have the photos and report awaiting your lawsuit. Headaches? From Whom? Is that why you haven’t been at san V for 3 years? Change that profile cause you haven’t seen that "BUTTERY WATER" for some time. I think the phrase was "I hope he never comes back cause it will be one less headache PERIOD."

(Message edited by fglenn on October 25, 2007)

Frank, I will assume you are talking about me so I will respond to you God only knows why.

My oil filter has never fallen off, trust me on this, I might over tighten but never too lose. Towed back to the dock?? I have never broke down on San V EVER. Filed a report with the Rangers why waste my time, I would rather be poked in the eye with a sharp stick.

They hope I never come back...because they know I'm right and will push until things are fair and they don't want that fight on their hands.

Lawsuit, why would I sue you, it would be a waste of my time.

I drop my boat in San V a few times a summer for a more casual day of hanging out, having lunch and just watching all the spanks like yourself.

Let's start it up again....Do you really want to go down that path with me? I will make it my personal goal to make sure you and John never get a body of water that is for skiers only, it will be open for everyone trust me. All it takes is for one person to raise heck about unequality and something will be done about it.

Now what would you think of a guy that goes and cries to the rangers that all the passes are gone for the permit only area which is on first come first served basis. He cries because he didn't get there in time so he got shut out. So to show us what a big man he is, he puts his boat in the water and drives up and down the permit area doing big power turns and drives away giving me a one gun salute. This same person threatens me at a city lakes meeting stating, "you better beware the next time I see you at the lake" Please Frank I would let my 9 year old niece take care of you, she handles all of my light work. What you say about a guy that cries about wakeboarding from sunrise to 10:00am on the permit area yet what does he do when he gets "tired" He breaks out a wakeboard on the same area during the morning session. Most people would call that person a HYPOCRITE.

The last thing I heard the lakes staff say "Frank is a big ••••••• baby" Frank guess what the dots spell?? Let me help you out, I know you aren't too bright. Hold your hand in front of you with your palm facing you, now fold all the fingers down except the middle one. You tried it didn't you? DUMBASS!!

Frank you made it personal and now so will I.

WOW

Damn...I say we set up the Octagon! My money's on Aki! HA!

BTW...I don't hang out with Aki often, nor would I say that we are super-CLOSE friends...but I have interacted with him for the past 5-6 years on Wakeworld and have never seen him be out-of-line. I did have the pleasure of riding with him and his friends a few years back (Paul Smith, Blabel, etc.) and all I can say is that he is a stand-up guy, very friendly, very hospitable, and holds other people in high regard. I'm not sure if it was the same time, but, I think it was his board I borrowed when my buddy snapped mine on a Whirlybird. I highly doubt that any of his animosity towards Frank is unfounded.

I'm not saying that Frank's a bad guy, but if I absolutely had to pick a side, I'd take Aki's no questions asked!

GO GRAMPS!!

"Dark side? There is no dark side just dark people." -scalwsa

Not cool!

This thread is like a soap opera: "Waves of our lives"

OMG! I hope you guys find a lake in SD so all the hate can stay down there.