INT Pro Division

I am very excited to see INT offering a PRO division. This makes a nice platform for outlaw riders between Amateur and Pro Tour level. Not to mention a nice $$payday$$ at US Championships!

What do you think???

We'll be offering the Pro divisions at all So Cal INT events this year........

sup jeff

yo yo wasup dave!

we will run the pro div to this year . i think i might come to your hood this summer , can u call the oc the hood?

Hey Jeff, is this going to pay out at each event
or only at Nationals?

There will be a payout at every event. The more riders in the division, the higher the $$.

Post your score at any INT event during the season to qualify. Top riders will compete at US Championships for the big $$

Also is it going to raise the amount of entry fees?

The entry fee for the Pro Division has not been decided yet. It will be a little more. }

Do they take your best score of the season to determine if you qualify or an accumulation of all your scores? How many riders will they take? Is it in Bakersfield again? If so, have they made the lake deeper?

So dose the pro pot go off the amount entered at that single comp?

David, I talked to the NorCal coordinators and was told you only have to post one score to qualify (if it's a top 15 score) It's kind of cool that they will be posting every ones scores during the summer and the leaderboard will change. I would like to see them run a head to head format at the USC, should be some good riders there. Is Austin thinking about riding a couple?

Randy- Don't know. It's a completely different type of competition from the tour. I love the INT and think it's great what they are doing. The goal in int is to get 5 high value tricks in per pass so you need to be able to hit them quickly, especially on a short lake. Austin cut his teeth on the INT and their US Championships are the most fun.

I don't know what the goal of the INT is with this. If it's to give other people not on the tour an opportunity to ride at a very high level then I would like to see guys not on the Tour take that spot. If their goal is to attract the Pros then we probably will. I personally would like to see it for guys not on the tour to give them an opportunity to get some exposure and to experience the deal. But that is just my opinion. Are you guys riding in it?

Randy- Is it in Bakersfield? If so, have they dug the lake out for wakeboarding?

David, I hear what your saying about giving the guys not on the tour a chance to ride at a high level, that said, they are putting a lot of $ out there, my guess is the top 15 riders will all be Jr. mens & pro riders from the tour. Alex will ride a couple to post a score, hard not to. He qualifyed to go to Bakersfield last year, but it was right after the Pan-Am Championships and couldn't miss that much school, I heard they dug out one lake for wakeboards. Leaving for O'town on Saturday, see you guys in your backyard in May.

Austin will be there- O'Town.

Is he there next week? That would be cool.

The goal of the Pro Division is to encourage the riders to go big... If you can throw it down, do it! I think the thought is that there isn't allot of places for those riders that are truly at or above INT Outlaw but not quite Pro to ride. There will probably be some pro's that come but hey they are human too, how phat would it be if they go to the INT Championships mess up and a Outlaw wins- its worth watching! and trying!

They completely refurbished all 3 lakes. There is a 6 page article about it in the April issue of Waterski magazine (page 56- 61).

I think that 13000 pts is too low to be bumped into Pro. 13000 is about what was thrown at the nationals.

Don, I think that's straight trick/point count, at the USC, Outlaw riders got an extra 3000 max style points. If a rider can score 13,000 without style points your landing some big tricks.

If you threw Raley, Krypt, 2 540's, back role, crowmobe, elephant, 2 360's, and a tantrum, I think that would be over 13000. Nice run but hardly close to what the pros are throwing. I think that a good outlaw would be wasting his $.

The 13,000 is to qualify - the minimum. If you want to go into it with a minimal run, that is up to you. That said, 13,000 is still a good run.

I am not saying that a person would want to go in with a minimum. What I am saying is that if the run I gave is your best, then you would be bumped into Pro and you would up against the pros. There is a huge difference between that run and what the pros are doing. A person who can throw a 13000 to 13500 run would be discouraged.

Don, I might be looking at a old rule book, but the run you discribed dosen't add up to 13000 in the book I looked out. I have a 04 rule book have the point value changed?

Randy you are right. I was looking at the wrong 360's another example:
elephant 1250
Raley 1250
Krypt 1300
2 540's 1350ea
360 1050
front roll 1150
tantrum 1150
cromobe 1850
scarcrow 1200
add 2 grabs 100 ==13000
decent run but not anything near what the pros are throwing. I am not trying to bash INT. I like INT. It is a great grass roots organization. With out them there would not be any competitions in many areas. Kevin Bird's and Nate Miller's runs at nationals would have bumped them into the pro division.

I am the Michigan Coordinator so I was involved in some of the preliminary discussions, but I don't have the final rules. From my understanding so for, an Outlaw does not "bump" into the pro division. You have to sign up for and enter the pro division. You pay a different fee and that becomes part of the payout. If you want to keep running Outlaw above 13,000, I think you can. There is no requirement to enter the Pro division. However, once you go Pro and score above 13,000 - you are in the Pro Division.

Riffle - correct this if I am wrong.

I really don't think a 13,000 point run is gonna be in the $$ at US Championships.

There will be a limited number of riders in the PRO division as well, so i'd think the bar will be raised to even qualify.

Cut and paste from the INT site

Any wakeboarder competing in a regular INT division that reaches the qualifying wakeboard trick score for the pro division will be bumped to the pro division and remain there for the remainder of the season. However, pro division competitors do not have to compete in a regular INT division before entering the pro division. Note: When a competitor bumps into the pro division from their regular INT division, their score does not automatically get entered into the pro division. For that event, they are scored normally in their regular division. At the next INT event the competitor will only be scored in the pro division.

Requirements for bumping into the pro division:

Men- 13,000 points without style points in Outlaw

Women- 9,000 points without style points in Outlaw

Karl,

You are right. Any rider can enter into the pro division, but if a rider does not achieve a certain point value (we are currently having discussions on this), they will not be qualified for pay out. The idea on this is we dont want riders to enter into this class just for giggles. We want to make sure riders ride in the right class. You will find outlaw riders trying to break into this class and this class is not intended to be for riders that are advanced or below. Hope this helps.

So Mike clear this up for me. If a person is riding outlaw and does a run of 13000, is he bumped to pro or not? The way I read the rules on the site he is. Thanks in advance for your answer.

Don,

Sorry for the late response, I have been traveling on the road for a couple of days. Yes, if a rider breaks into the 13,000 point run on tricks alone, he does get bumped into the pro class. I know a lot of you might think this point value is low, but you will find this a run that would be competitive against anyone. Hope this helps.

Mike,
With all due respect, I don't believe that a 13000 run is competitive with any of the pros. It would be good in JR mens. The run I have above has only 1 mobe and no 7's. Most pro's are throwing atleast 3 mobes, 2 7's and many are throwing 9's in their run. I just feel that a good outlaw will be discouraged from competing because he stands no chance to be in the top 15. Also when a good outlaw goes to an event that is not in a warm climate, chances are that he will be the only one competing in pro. Paying $30 to $40 for 1 run and not having anyone competing against you and not standing any chance of top 15 is not that much fun. With that said, I respect the decision by INT and hope that it is successful for them.

I'm in support of what the INT is doing and happy to see the progression, that said, I was thinking of something and wondering how many INT events are run on private ski lakes vs. open water lakes. Because most "ski" lakes are only 4 or 5 feet deep wake size and shape is compromised by the bounce back effect off the shollow bottom. I think this will hinder some riders on some of the more tech. mobes and 720's that they can land on open water. Just thinking out loud.

Don,

We will be in constant review of this class and the points in which are being posted. If the required point value is to low we will make modifications for the following year. By having this class to bump upward, will allow us to move riders upward out of expert and even advanced making it also more competitive in the lower divisions. Your insight to these things are very helpful and encouraged. Thanks for the input

I think that as in all INT divisions the thought is to have a place for people to be challenged and get better. The pro division was developed not as a way for an outlaw to ride against a pro and win out of the gate. It's suppose to be for those riders that are really at the top of their bracket and have no where else to ride because they aren't yet good enough to go pro. I think that it's great that some kid that would try new tricks because he wants to get better now has a viable reason to work hard and get better, with competitors that are willing to throw big too. It's easy for these guys not to give their all or sandbag because they don't want to be to good - now INT is saying GO BIG! I firmly believe that allot of people want to start at the executive position with the big purse without having to sweep the floors. But, it just doesn't work that way.

Henry,
I understand what you are saying but I do not believe that an outlaw rider that can do 13000 is any where near a pro. I think a good expert is closer to a good outlaw than a good outlaw is to a an average pro. I would be willing to bet that there will be no one in the top 15 that rode outlaw last year.

I looked at last years nationals an 8 guys exceeded 13000 points. I know some had style points but 13000 points is not that hard for a an outlaw to hit. The problem with bumping a guy at 13000 is he won't be in contention to qualify as a pro but will be knocked out from competing as an outlaw. This is totally contrary to INT's purpose. Pros have lots of opportunities but the outlaw riders realy only have INT for the most part.

Thus a good outlaw rider can win his state title and be the best outlaw but get bumped into pro division. His score wont be in top 15 and he now is not qualified for either pro or outlaw.

Don't bump guys out of outlaw. Take the top 15 for pros and let the rest ride outlaw if they aren't a true pro rider (on the tour).

Well said, Dave

Good call Dave, with the amount of prize money being put up, I would guess the top 15 in the int pro division will be made up of mostly tour riders with a couple of unknown rippers getting in.

I don't know if it will really be that much money. Thnk about it, They said a total prize purse from 10-20k. The way i read it, that money will be shared between the top 3 men and top 3 women. Thats six people to split 10-20k. Now if it is 20K that would still probably mean 5-7k for the mens winner. but if its only 10k your probably only looking at $2,500. That's still a lot for most guys but for pros to travel to the other side of the country that amount of money might not be that enticing.

Don't forget the skiers' cut. But I agree. Most pro riders are tired of traveling by that time plus they are in Orlando and there is no where to qualifify. But INT riders bumped out of outlaw because of points but don't make the top 15 pros won't be eligible for US Championships. I say let them come and compete at the outlaw division if they don't make the pro cut.

Guys, I know that you are all concerned that the point system might be to low. Remember this is without style points. After review of last years US Championships points in outlaw. Kevin Bird was the only rider in which would have been bumped into the new class. All those scores posted are with style points added. Again if this is to low we will adjust this as we need to. Thanks for all your help.

I hear you Michael and am stoked on what the INT is doing, But I was at all but one of the PWT's, Nationals and Pan Am, and every rider in the top 20 Jr. Man's and not counting any pro riders will score over 1300 with out style no problem.

Mike,
Unless I am wrong, I believe that Nate Miller at 15500pts minus 2000 style equals 13500
Todd Forrest got 14783 minus 2000 equals 12783 and that is assuming he recieved all 2000 style points. If he did not then he is very close to 13000 along with the 4th and 5th place people at 14300 with style points. Also with all due respect and I do mean with all due respect, It took Kevin 3 trys to land a crow mobe. It was the only mobe in his run. I think a top outlaw should ba allowed atleast 1 mobe in his run and possibly a 720. I don't think this makes him pro.

This division is for Semi-Pro level riders. Outlaw riders can throw any trick on the INT Trick List from Intermediate and up. GO BIG!! Any variation of a trick will be counted as a different trick. Five tricks are allowed per pass, with no repeats. This is to allow more time for the rider to attempt more challenging tricks. Outlaw riders that have a particular upper level trick that is rarely seen are encouraged to tell the judges in the boat to look for the trick. Example: If you are the first in your area to bring a Skeezer to a local INT event, tell the judges to watch for it so it doesn¹t catch them off guard. Outlaw riders may receive up to 2000 style points.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don:

The INT Pro Division is another stepping stone to the regular pro ranks. It does not mean that the INT is trying to compete with the PWT or similar event. There is a HUGE gap between the Outlaw and the PWT. This is another step.

Think of it this way, you have an outlet for the pre-rookie Professional. The INT cannot be all things to all people. We have a particular segment of the riding community that we serve, and we serve it in a unique way. The INT may or may not be the right place for any particular rider.

Probably the best benefit to the INT Pro rider is the "discovery." Most of the industry reps will be there. If they like what is thrown and like how the riders conducts themself off the water, they may get an invite for a team position. Team managers are always on the lookout for fresh talent - especially someone who can be articulate in an interview and give a high-quality clinic.

Thanks for your input and ideas. The Pro Division is the result of many people's input and will continue to be developed through this pilot season. The INT has tweaked, adapted, and hopefully improved each year by the suggestions of the riders, sponsors, coordinators, and many others.

Don,

2005 we changed the style points to 3,000. The web-site will be corrected. We must have missed this on the web-site when we changed style points from 2004 to 2005. Rule books and all supporting documents reflected the change, but I guess we missed that. Sorry for the confusion.

FYI,

I thought Kevin Bird had a Whirly Bird in his run also besides the Crow Mobe last year.

All I hear is that "it isn't fair for the outlaw rider to have to go against a pro, that he won't stand a chance." What about those riders who don't stand a chance against the outlaw? Should those guys give up because they aren't ever making it to the USC?
Maybe the discussion shouldn't be how low the 1300 hundred is but maybe if you can hit so many tricks you wouldn't be able to compete in the semi-pro. Maybe next year there could be a level higher than Outlaw and the pro division could be outside of that. Karl, you are right - you will never make everyone happy. All suggestions are welcome and help to build INT, more minds bring more ideas. But,like I said Some people want to stay in the pond and be the big fish instead of sticking there necks out in the river. That's why we so sandbaggers.

Henry,
I hear you. Opinions are like &)**. Everyone has one. This is just a forum to express ideas. INT is not perfect but neither are any of the other comps. By expressing ideas hopefully we can improve on what we have. I do feel as dave said that INT's mission is to serve the amateurs and I feel this is moving away from that. I am not trying to cut INT down because I am greatful that they exist.