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Old     (wetirish)      Join Date: May 2003       06-30-2006, 1:10 PM Reply   
I want to replace my rear 6.5" stock speakers. Do I need to buy marine type speakers? The rear speakers are almost on the floor. I just put in a Kenwood Excelon X590 CD/MP3 deck and Kenwood Excelon X170 front speakers. Do I need to go with marine type speakers due to the rears being so close to the floor?
Old     (skibum69)      Join Date: Aug 2004       06-30-2006, 1:52 PM Reply   
I used Canton 6.5" speakers and I haven't heard anything with as good of quality that was under $800/pair. I think cantons run 250-300/pair
Old     (jaybird)      Join Date: May 2006       06-30-2006, 1:54 PM Reply   
I didnt
and they have been there for four years with no problems
Just get a good poly speaker with a rubber suround and they last a good long time
Old     (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       06-30-2006, 2:26 PM Reply   
Depends what you want to spend. I'm running 90 watts rms to my Alpine 6.5" type S's and they scream. Just make sure you cross them over if you are using them at high volumes. Cost me about $50 a pair.
Old     (oaf)      Join Date: Jul 2002       06-30-2006, 6:22 PM Reply   
I know from some of the top guys here in So Cal they like Diamond Audio for the price and the overall quality of the speakers. Very much like the MB Quart (but they say they are better).
Old     (wetirish)      Join Date: May 2003       07-01-2006, 11:42 AM Reply   
Thanks for the replies. Do you use a cross over switch to run speakers for high volume? What does the cross over part do? Does anyone know about BOSS 2-WAY COAXIAL MARINE SPEAKERS or AUDIOBAHN? Any good?
Old     (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       07-01-2006, 2:59 PM Reply   
I would probably stay away from Boss and definetely stay away from Audiobahn speakers. I had them in my boat and they fried the 4th time I took the boat out. Had them set up with the same amp as my Alpine's, Kicker KX700.5. The cross over eliminates or minimizes (depending on what setting you have it on) the bass signal to your coaxial speakers.
Old     (clubmyke)      Join Date: Aug 2004       07-01-2006, 6:16 PM Reply   
image dynamic chamelons... no contest... best speakers under $750...needs lots of space (big magnent & big amp... but will do wonders when set up right..)
Old     (habcaw_creek)      Join Date: Mar 2005       07-01-2006, 6:34 PM Reply   
I have 2 pioneer 2ways in my outboard and they still sound crystal clear as the day i got em 3 years ago...and i blast em.
My friend just got a 20 ft scout w/ a 150 yamaha for 36k(definitly not worth it). Pissed me off bc hes rich and all he cares about id name brand.Any way it came with "top of the line" marine kickers which are the same as in wake boats. They already sound horrible. Dont get kicker coaxical speakers. Actually , just dont get coaxicals period, get component. Ive listened to jl, kicker, polk, and pioneer components and they were all about the same quality. Just dont get jl. Your paying for a name. There not bad, just not worth extra money.
Old     (wakespecialty)      Join Date: Feb 2005       07-01-2006, 7:44 PM Reply   
for $300 range it's hard to beat the Diamond D66i
www.diamondaudio.com
Old     (poser007)      Join Date: Nov 2004       07-02-2006, 9:08 AM Reply   
Elliott, I had Pioneer 3 ways in my Moomba and they sounded excellent....crystal clear and you could turn them up and still get very good sound quality they were 79.00 bucks a pair I thought they sounded better then my friends momos.
Old     (jaybird)      Join Date: May 2006       07-02-2006, 9:15 AM Reply   
No question the loudest 6.5 I have ever heard is the new 2006 crossfire RS62 and WOW crystal clear
JJ
Old     (jaybird)      Join Date: May 2006       07-02-2006, 9:17 AM Reply   
and for 100 bones a pair you cant beat em
"in my opinion"
JJ
Old     (fyrdawg29)      Join Date: Mar 2006       07-02-2006, 3:14 PM Reply   
No problems with my ARC audio 6.5's. Love em'
Old     (bob)      Join Date: Feb 2001       07-03-2006, 12:14 AM Reply   
polk momo's or infinity's sound great and will take a pounding at a reasonable price
Old     (clubmyke)      Join Date: Aug 2004       07-03-2006, 10:55 AM Reply   
forgot about the arc 6.5s...awesome speaker...
Old     (wetirish)      Join Date: May 2003       07-03-2006, 11:43 AM Reply   
Thanks for the replies. It looks like everyone has their favorite and no problem not using marine grade speakers. Tough decision!
Old     (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       07-03-2006, 11:43 AM Reply   
I am really surprised to see how opinionated everybody is about specific speakers???

With all the wind and engine rumble that we have in our boats I tend to put sound quality at a back seat to efficiency. The stock Polk MMC's that came in my Nautique are quite bright but that works pretty well in a boat.

I would consider a few different factors in choosing your replacement speakers. First off if they mount to an interior panel weight of the speaker really comes into play. Nothing is worse than a heavy speaker ripping the screws out of the wood possibly tearing the upholstery on the way. The Infinity Kappa's with neodymium magnets are featherlight, very efficient, and reasonably priced = a good solution if they mount to wood. I have them in my pickup where they sound a bit bright but they would probably sound good in a boat. The speakers in my Nautique mount to the interior fiberglass that is super strong so I would probably hang 10 lbs without damage to interior. The Polk MMCs are a bit on the heavy side but not a bad solution (great swimmers too). The Polk db675s are an option to consider, I actually prefer the SQ of these over the MMCs. If you want a good budget solution lots of guys like the Pioneer's. Most of these mentioned are good for wet locations.

In MY OPINION there is no reason to spend over $200 for a pair of 6.5" speakers in an open cockpit boat.
Old     (dcwillette)      Join Date: Sep 2005       07-03-2006, 12:59 PM Reply   
Perception of sound quality and quality of equipment is relative to your previous experience with audio. Warning: I am a recovering audiosnob. In order to let others with this sickness know where I fall on the scale, I'll tell you some of the better equipemnt I have/had in my home:

Speakers: Soliloquy 5.3
Sub: REL, Soliloquy S-10C
Amp: Odyssey, McCormick
Pre-amp: Rogue Audio 99
CD players: Cary, YBA, and Rega

One thing I've learned is that when it comes to audio equipment most people are ignorant of the subject and marketing has a bigger impact on a product's success than quality realtive to most other products (read BOSE).

I agree with Mikeski about sound quality but I'm not surprised at all by all of the opinions on here. I always go for the best sound quality but I think it may a little dumb to pay too much attention to it in an open air boat. You definitely reach the point of diminishing returns earlier.

I planned on putting the Polk Momo speakers in my boat but then listened to them in a store and was not impressed. Maybe the system was just set up wrong but I agree that they did seem really bright. I was really impressed with some Focals but I don't want to put $500-950 per pair in cabin boat speakers.

After having spent enough money in home audio gear to probably buy a Bayliner, I think $200-250 per pair is about all you need to spend for 6.5" speakers for a boat. Now, HLCD tower speakers, subs and amps maybe a little more.
Old     (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       07-03-2006, 3:37 PM Reply   
I guess I should add to my opinion of using $200 cabin speakers, I also think you should figure on spending $1500-$2000 on tower speakers alone if you want to project music to the rider. My tower speakers are worth about the same as all of my other equipment combined. I recovered from being an audio snob over 10 years ago and now I just go for the best bang for the buck realizing that the last 10% improvement is not worth that extra 300% cost.
Old     (jaybird)      Join Date: May 2006       07-03-2006, 7:27 PM Reply   
WOW
Old     (clubmyke)      Join Date: Aug 2004       07-04-2006, 11:24 PM Reply   
chad,

i got the audiobug pretty bad...i have fell on and off the audio wagon a couple of times... i kinda go for best bang for the buck, sound quality. and relability...

here is my current home system ( i also have a ht system ,car, and boat system)

classe cam 350 mono's
audio research ls-25 mk2
cec tl2x- belt drive cd transport
audio aero prima dac mk2
audio physic libra speakers
xlo signature 2 ic's (all balanced)
synergistic designer reference speaker cable
audience power cables
seasmic sinks & bdr cones

i have tried alot of components sets in my car (rainbow,seas,morel, dynaudio, focal utopia,mb quart) and the image dynamics chamelons are very, very good... about 80% of my dynaudio gt 240's for 25% of the price..

upgrade the crossover parts and you are splitting hairs and better in some regards (the dyna's image a little better in absolute terms but are not as dynamic and open on the top.. not to mention the id's are synergistic with zapco reference amps (fully balanced symbilink from a 16v balanced eclipse 8053 deck).

the id's are very cost effective and reference quality when set up right...

hope that helps,

mike
Old     (dcwillette)      Join Date: Sep 2005       07-05-2006, 7:56 AM Reply   
Mike,

Your right, you've got it bad. You should not ever need to upgrade again though.

The Image Dynamics sound interesting but it goes back to question... what can we really expect as far as high-end audio in a wakeboard boat?
Old     (clubmyke)      Join Date: Aug 2004       07-05-2006, 8:55 AM Reply   
chad,

it depends on your reference point...it will never be a good as a dedicated listening room (one person)...

so are you asking will it be as good as well set up car system ?
Old     (dcwillette)      Join Date: Sep 2005       07-05-2006, 9:34 AM Reply   
No, I think I already know the answer to that question. I'm just wondering if it even makes sense to seriously listen to 6.5" speakers at a store when your putting them in the open air of a wakebaord boat's cabin. That's why I say you should probably not spend more than $200 per pair on them.

My problem is when I go to the store to buy some, I'm not impressed with them and the higher-end speakers do sound better in the listening room which makes me want to spend the money.
Old     (clubmyke)      Join Date: Aug 2004       07-05-2006, 9:58 AM Reply   
if this helps... i like listening in my boat better than my car and dedicated listening room..open air in the boat sounds really, really good and even better on a beautiful day with great scenery and having alot more fun...

so the boat system got a little more pricey due to the complicated install and need for hq amps.. home and cars are easier install than boats.

like anything system setup and synergy is crucial..the speakers in the boat are not that big of a problem...

the bigest pita for poor sound quality in boats is the marine head units..2v pre out, poor d/a, and not enough outputs..i have no problem going on the record for saying current marine head units suck big time... while they do have a wired remote they dont have 2 volume control zones (needed)they are 10 years behind in sound quality, features, and build quality...

most setups i see have pac volume knobs or eq.. while this does work... 30-40 feet of unbalanced interconnect cable is not a great idea and introduces a lot of problems..some run a line driver which helps but long rca cables = sound degradation and rf problems...

i dont know where you buy your gear, but the id's go for $320 at soundomain.com (authorized dealer) and $175-$250 on ebay.. they also make a coaxial for $100 a pair and they are a great speaker for the $$$. the arc seperates are also very good (built by id for arc..)

(Message edited by clubmyke on July 05, 2006)
Old     (yooper)      Join Date: Jun 2002       07-05-2006, 1:33 PM Reply   
Mike,
Would you say that the Image Dynamics coaxial's sound better than an Infinity Kappa? I'm going to upgrade my speakers, and I was leaning toward the Kappas. I'm not going to get into components.... I enjoy good sound, but I have to draw the line somewhere when it comes to price.
Old     (dcwillette)      Join Date: Sep 2005       07-05-2006, 2:33 PM Reply   
I find it really interesting that you were able to get such good sound in the boat. I would never have imagined sound in my boat even sounding much better than a good stock car stereo.

The bad side to this is it makes me want to spend more money! I may be willing to go with the Image Dynamics but probably not the Dynaudios.

What I'm most worried about is lack of mid-bass. Current subwoofer plan is one or two JL Audio 10w7's or 10W6's with a quality mono amp. Although I wasn't all that impressed with the speed and accuracy of these JL flagship subs, I haven't heard car subs any better either. Ideas?

What worries me about 6.5" 2-ways or components mounted in the boat is that it just seems like they wouldn't be up to the task. What do you think of adding some 8" mid-bass drivers?
Old     (clubmyke)      Join Date: Aug 2004       07-05-2006, 7:06 PM Reply   
jamie - i dont know which sound better (havent heard the kappa's but image dynamic drivers have been highly regarded by the high end mobile industry over the years...)
btw, if your patient and running a amp to the speakers keep your eyes open for used pair of id chamelons (they can be made seperate or coaxial).

chad -the open air setup and the joy of boating took me by surprise..the sound quality is really, really good. ( i catch myself singing along as i drive..much to my embarrassment). my 211 is pretty quiet and will be even quieter after i add a fresh air exhaust system..

btw, i just mentioned the dynaudio's as a reference point -the id's chamelons are that good (80% of the dyna's with factory crossovers) and 100% with modified crossovers.. the only reason i noticed is because i got to do a side by side comparison in my car..

the lack of mid-bass is a major concern..i have often found it due lack of sub intergration causing cancellation right around the crossover area's... that disappeared when i got the eclipse 8053 head unit...it allows for delaying the any speaker 1-5 milliseconds, volume control, and phase..i would delay my components about 3.2 milliseconds and the bass would hit at the same time (it is the easiest way to actually get imaging)..

i have the id's chamelons without a sub(custom box being built) and it sounds like some systems with a factory sub (tone settings flat and zapco amps).dependiong on the install, i dont think 8's are needed (use a bigger high quality amp instead). the only drawback i have seen with them is the big magnet, need for hq amps (zapcos are synergistic), and grills (they dont come with grills).

subs....since you are use to the rel. i would stay with image dynamics again (their speakers are extremely musical and have incredible slam )..

the question is how big of box, power, and do you favor excursion or sound quality ? as you know there is a choice now in subs.... high excursion with high power class d amps (2k-3k watts) or traditional sound quality subs (like your rel ) with 300-500 watts...

image dynamic subs have 2 models- idq and idmax..the idq is the traditional sound quality sub and the idmax is a high excursion sub... i run the idq due to the sound quality, minimal power requirements, little air space (.75 for 12" sealed or .5 for a 10" sealed) and have a intergrated surround to the cone (they hold up very well, i ran jl's and the surround would seperate from the cone after the warranty was up...i never saw this with id). the idq musciality is incredible with great gear and has the speed, slam, dynamics, and detail in the spades (very rare in a car subwoofer)

the idmax is the high excursion sub.. it requires more power and bigger box (can be used free air)..though i havent owned one (tempted) i have heard them in numerous installs and they are incredible and give only a little sacrifice in sound quality...

at this point in system design- you have to look at your electrical system in terms of alternator output, batteries, and tower speakers (requires a high power class a/b amp or a pricey class t (like the zapco c series)

(Message edited by clubmyke on July 05, 2006)
Old     (dcwillette)      Join Date: Sep 2005       07-05-2006, 9:30 PM Reply   
Hmm... like I said, I am recovering from the audio bug. This could quickly get out of hand. I have considered the 2-channel Zapco amp though with either NVS Addictions or Wetsounds Pro-80's for tower speakers and the JL subs with a JL mono amp.

I had planned on keeping the total system under $4K including labor. I really do need to check out the ID's though.
Old     (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       07-05-2006, 9:58 PM Reply   
Chad,

You might want to listen to the tower speakers before you buy if you are into SQ. I had the rare opportunity to test the Pro-80s, Pro-485s, and Addictions side by side. The Pro-485s ended up on my boat. The Pro-80s are great from a footprint standpoint but they sacrafice a great deal of lower end to save this footprint. I found the same to be true with the Addictions. Both of these are great far field performers by you will most likely find yourself turning them off when there is no rider. The Pro-485s actually sound pretty good at the swim deck as long as you are not frying your eardrums.

Jamie, consider your mounting surface and mounting depth. The Kappas are great in these regards, clubmyke mentions that the IDs are heavy so keep this in mind.

My ears don't hear the detail they did when I was younger so I can't comment on the subtle differences.
Old     (jpk)      Join Date: Sep 2005       07-05-2006, 10:40 PM Reply   
Theoretically you could get very nice audio in a boat because it resembles a perfect anechoic chamber when a speaker is played outdoors. However, the stock locations of boat speakers throw that theory out the window almost immediately. IMO, if you are going to look for something in a boat speaker, look for one that can play LOUD without strain and handle lots of power and/or is very efficient.

While you might like to chill on a perfectly still day and listen to perfect full range sound, you will quickly grow wearly if you can't hear things loud and clear over a bunch of other boats, jetskis, your own boat engine, and the open cockpit. Screw the audiophile nonsense and go for something that hits hard and plays LOUD. if this were your home system, I would never say that.
Old     (clubmyke)      Join Date: Aug 2004       07-06-2006, 12:11 AM Reply   
jpk- i totally agree...hence id on the tower, components with the the zapco's and id with mmats for the bottom end - would of stayed with my jl 500/1 but i needed more power and the 1000/1 was too big)

the zapco are really good with tower speakers... some of them have a remote volumne control or it can be added via symbilink...

tower speaker are a mixed bag... the closest i have found is the discontinued skylon deafcon reference iv or v....they require crossover and driver modifaction with a high powered/high quality amp to work...

also, mikeski is right about the id seperates- they are pretty heavy...
Old     (clubmyke)      Join Date: Aug 2004       07-06-2006, 12:19 AM Reply   
jpk- i totally agree...hence id on the tower, component with zapco's and id with mmats for the bottom end - the system goes loud, sounds good, hits hard, and is really quiet with the symbilink...

the zapco are really good with tower speakers... some of them have a remote volumne control or it can be added via symbilink...

tower speaker are a mixed bag... the closest i have found is the discontinued skylon deafcon reference iv or v....they require crossover and driver modifaction with a high powered/high quality amp to work...

also, mikeski is right about the id seperates- they are pretty heavy...

btw, i have a jl 500/1 is anyone is interested (please feel free to check my ebay feedback under "clubmyke" - over 250 positive transactions as buyer and seller...

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