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Old     (Bit)      Join Date: Aug 2014       09-15-2014, 6:20 AM Reply   
I copy that from planetnautiqe,...

This weekend i was the first time on a newer boat with surf system, a G21. And no surprise, i liked the surfwake with stock ballast ;-).

Thats makes me again sleeping bad because of thinking of a new boat, like every year when the new boats are in the news. A used 2014 G21 NSS, white, < 50h, ZR 409 cost about the same like a new 2015 Malibu 23 LSV with surfgate, wedge, PnP and a Monsoon 350.

Because its the end of the season.. what can you say about the 2014 G21

- did you have a lots of problems?
- how many houres?
- Is there something i should check in particular?
- would you buy it again?
- and maybe you have seen a 2015 23 LSV - your oppinion compared to your G21?

Of course i'm shure that both boats are a big step foreward from my 2008 Supra 21V, but they are also double the price i paid ;-), so it have to be.

All oppinions wanted, just don't forget to explain why ;-)

Cheers, Bit

P.S. Maybe you ask yourself why i'm comparing a 21 with a 23. Well, there is no used G23 available and the new one are way to expensive ;-)
Old     (biggator)      Join Date: Jul 2010       09-15-2014, 6:23 AM Reply   
Not sure I'd go for the 409.. but otherwise, no contest.
Old     (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       09-15-2014, 6:47 AM Reply   
Hmmm... I'm not sure I like either option, and I'm a '14 LSV owner.

The '15 LSV is legit, especially with the new 12" dash. I've demo'd it twice and it's the best driver interface in the business. It's that good. That plus the fact that the LSV is longer than the G21 (which I assume you like or you'd be looking at 22 VLX) would have me leaning towards the LSV. But, the 350 kind of spoils it for me. I had the 450 in mine.

I'm not a fan of the G21. I know the wake is mackin' but the proportions of the boat are just off to me... so tall, so deep, and yet so short. If you were talking about a G23 it would be a no brainer. Really like that boat.

If I were you I'd get the 15 LSV with an engine upgrade. The 450 is the ticket, but if you're trying to keep the price close to that used G21, the 409 with ACME 2419 (aka torque prop) will be good unless you are super high altitude. Either that or start looking for slightly used G23's.

Tough decision...
Old     (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       09-15-2014, 7:26 AM Reply   
Get the 15 LSV with the 409. Option down the stereo or something else if you have to. It's worth it.
Old     (Bit)      Join Date: Aug 2014       09-15-2014, 8:15 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggator View Post
Not sure I'd go for the 409.. but otherwise, no contest.
no contest for? ;-)

ZR 409 with 2:1, you don't think thats enough for the G21?
Old     (biggator)      Join Date: Jul 2010       09-15-2014, 11:19 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bit View Post
no contest for? ;-)

ZR 409 with 2:1, you don't think thats enough for the G21?
Well.. not sure on the 21. On the 23, the 450 is plenty - but I think the 409 might struggle a bit with a bunch of people (or extra weight).

As for which boat, though... the G21 by a mile (source: former 23LSV owner, current G23 owner)
Old     (skiboarder)      Join Date: Oct 2006       09-15-2014, 12:25 PM Reply   
I have a 24MXZ with the 409 and regular high altitude prop. I run Stock ballast, 600 lbs of lead under the dash, 550 plug and plays on both sides of the motor and wedge if I have less than 8 people. Not because of planing, but because I really like the wake better w/o wedge with 10+ people. It is rampy, firm and finishes strong without interference.

For me the 409 and standard 14.5 x 14.25 are fine. The bigger engines are great, but eh, whats the point?
Old     (CRS_mi)      Join Date: Jul 2011       09-15-2014, 12:30 PM Reply   
Of course the looks of them is completely opinion, but I'd take the G21 without question. Having been in both this year, the G21 is amazing. The G21 has all the options and the same amount of ballast as the G23. The amount of room it has and the wake it throws for a 21' boat is crazy.
Old     (biggator)      Join Date: Jul 2010       09-15-2014, 12:44 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiboarder View Post
I have a 24MXZ with the 409 and regular high altitude prop. I run Stock ballast, 600 lbs of lead under the dash, 550 plug and plays on both sides of the motor and wedge if I have less than 8 people. Not because of planing, but because I really like the wake better w/o wedge with 10+ people. It is rampy, firm and finishes strong without interference.

For me the 409 and standard 14.5 x 14.25 are fine. The bigger engines are great, but eh, whats the point?
I'll have to look at the 21.. but keep in mind - the G23 is about 800lbs heavier than a 24mxz - and the stock ballast is double.

So the 409 in a 24mxz (4800lbs) plus stock (about 1500) and your extra 1700 - still comes in a shade lighter than a G23 (5400lbs) with full stock ballast (2850). Plus, the hull shape is different - which could make a difference as well.

I'm sure the 409 could do the job.. but every G I've seen had the 450 or 550 in it.
Old     (theshop)      Join Date: Aug 2010       09-15-2014, 1:11 PM Reply   
G21!!!

With the 2:1 gear ratio and a 17" prop, it has 50% greater power. I have a demo G21 with the 343hp and it planes out with stock ballst and 14 people, not as fast as the 409. You can't put enough weight in the G21 to stop it with the 409, it'a a rocket. I also run a G23 with the 409 and 2,000 lbs of additional ballast a about 6-8 people planes no problem.
Old     (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: SF Bay Area       09-15-2014, 2:28 PM Reply   
Ive ran a G21 with the 409 with stock ballast full & an additional 2K and it planed no problem at all. Could have thrown 10 additional people no problem.
Old     (sja)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-15-2014, 4:56 PM Reply   
Been in both boats, haven't ridden behind the G21, but wakeboarded behind the LSV before buying the G23. The wake was surprisingly nice in the fully loaded LSV. Nice mellow long transition like the G (although smaller). I think they were running accessory ballast in the v-bow area. Haven't ridden the G21, but by all accounts similar to the G23, with perhaps a bit more ramp. I found the main difference between the G series and the Malibu is the fit, finish added freeboard and storage in the G's. Everything on the G series feels solid and nicely overbuilt. (with the unfortunate exception of some of their driveshafts)
Old     (JWalk)      Join Date: Aug 2013       09-16-2014, 9:46 AM Reply   
The drive shaft issues have been fixed in 2014 by making the transmission a 2.1 and by making the shaft bigger going to 1 7/8. The only shaft issues were on 2013 G series before this change was made. A 2014 G23 with a 409 performs as well if not better than a 2013 G23 with 450hp. The 409HP has been in every G21 that we have retailed so far and I have had zero complaints. I have had the pleasure of selling Malibu, MasterCraft and Nautique and currently carry MasterCraft and Nautique. My opinion on what boat to buy is not worth much because I am paid to tell you buy a Nautique. All I can say is really climb through both boats and you will see the quality difference in the construction of the boats. The nice thing about the G series is you have 2850 under the floor ballast and huge storage compartments that are empty and fiberglass not carpet. The Malibu has a good bit of ballast but half of it is taking up your rear compartments so its not a fair comparison. I will say I had the pleasure recently of seeing the Malibu dash and wow if it functions as cool as it looks than they are on to something for sure. Good luck, either way you will have lots of fun times ahead.
Old     (iamcdn)      Join Date: Sep 2010       09-16-2014, 10:38 AM Reply   
Josh, there have been a number of 2014 drive shaft breaks including G21 and G23s from reports here and on Planetnautique.
Old     (scottb7)      Join Date: Oct 2012       09-16-2014, 11:39 AM Reply   
Agree 2014 with bigger shaft are breaking too. No word to date from Nautique.
Old     (biggator)      Join Date: Jul 2010       09-16-2014, 5:58 PM Reply   
Mastercraft breaks shafts, too..

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/...ad.php?t=63537
Old     (sja)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-16-2014, 6:07 PM Reply   
with all due respect, assuming I have't been baited by a troll (and at the risk of taking this discussion sideways) I am really disappointed and shocked that CC doesn't even keep their dealers in the loop about the shaft issue. I love my G23 and would buy another in a heartbeat. I've gone through and ridden the new X-star and Malibu etc. The design, fit, finish, general feel and wake of the G series is in my opinion in a different league than the others.
That said, shafts have been breaking on the 2012's 13's and 14's (with well documented reports and pics on the planetnautique forums). The breakage is almost always in the first 50hours and has occurred with the G25,23 and 21. As far as I can tell the engine size doesn't seem to matter either. The pattern of no documented breakage after a certain number of hours would seem to suggest a materials problem rather than a design issue. G owners have expressed disappointment with CC in the nautique forum for remaining silent on the issue. If CC is truely also not informing members of their dealer network, that would seem to be raising neglect to a higher level.
Old     (biggator)      Join Date: Jul 2010       09-17-2014, 6:32 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by sja View Post
with all due respect, assuming I have't been baited by a troll (and at the risk of taking this discussion sideways) I am really disappointed and shocked that CC doesn't even keep their dealers in the loop about the shaft issue. I love my G23 and would buy another in a heartbeat. I've gone through and ridden the new X-star and Malibu etc. The design, fit, finish, general feel and wake of the G series is in my opinion in a different league than the others.
That said, shafts have been breaking on the 2012's 13's and 14's (with well documented reports and pics on the planetnautique forums). The breakage is almost always in the first 50hours and has occurred with the G25,23 and 21. As far as I can tell the engine size doesn't seem to matter either. The pattern of no documented breakage after a certain number of hours would seem to suggest a materials problem rather than a design issue. G owners have expressed disappointment with CC in the nautique forum for remaining silent on the issue. If CC is truely also not informing members of their dealer network, that would seem to be raising neglect to a higher level.
Last I read - it was only the 550s.
Old     (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       09-17-2014, 6:51 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggator View Post
Last I read - it was only the 550s.
Someone on this thread is reporting a break on a G21 with 409...

Thinking aloud - wondering if this could be an issue with engine/transmission/strut install. Big powerful engines torquing the mounts/loosening things up, or just shifting in their mount period causing misalignment in the first few hours and then the stress builds up in the first 50 hours? It is curious that the shaft breaks at the strut each time...

Last edited by wakebordr11; 09-17-2014 at 6:54 AM.
Old     (JWalk)      Join Date: Aug 2013       09-17-2014, 12:40 PM Reply   
If there was a report of a G21 with a 409 having a shaft break it is the only one I have heard about. One shaft does not make it an issue it could have just been a faulty shaft or it could have hit something who knows. The 550 HP engines do not use the 1 7/8 shaft and most reports have been people that have had a ton of weight plus a ton of people. If someone takes a ton of weight and sticks it in a Malibu with a ton of people the shaft will give in some cases as well. All I am saying is the G21 with a 409HP engine is a great boat. Every manufacturer has issues that in most cases are on parts that they don't even make. Over all we have had great luck with the G series and there is no doubt that it would make a great boat for a long time.
Old     (JWalk)      Join Date: Aug 2013       09-17-2014, 12:46 PM Reply   
The G series had issues because they did what know one else had tried. It is a beast, 5400 lbs plus a huge fuel tank and pushing 3000 lbs of ballast. If you take a 230 and fill the tanks you are close to a G before you even hit fill. What they didn't predict was that people would throw another 3000 lbs and 16 people in the boat and then wonder why the shaft couldn't handle 12000 lbs of weight, haha. Most boats that are 12000 lbs have two big engines not one with 450 HP. You can't take anything away from Nautique on this one they have in deed set a new standard in wake boats.
Old     (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       09-18-2014, 9:55 AM Reply   
I haven't been in either of these, but I have been in their big and little brothers respectively, a 2014 G25 and a 2014 VLX.
They are both awesome boats without question. I just felt that the overall feel of the G was better than the Malibu. Not that the Malibu was bad by any means or that the build quality of the G was THAT much better. It just felt like it had a better layout and overall feel. The seating seemed more versatile in options than the Bu had. That may have changed in 2015 and with the 23 vs the 21 footer, but from my experiences, if I was to throw down on either of the two, I would go for a G series any day, so long as you are fine with a 21 footer.
Old     (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       09-18-2014, 10:14 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWalk View Post
The G series had issues because they did what know one else had tried. It is a beast, 5400 lbs plus a huge fuel tank and pushing 3000 lbs of ballast. If you take a 230 and fill the tanks you are close to a G before you even hit fill. What they didn't predict was that people would throw another 3000 lbs and 16 people in the boat and then wonder why the shaft couldn't handle 12000 lbs of weight, haha. Most boats that are 12000 lbs have two big engines not one with 450 HP. You can't take anything away from Nautique on this one they have in deed set a new standard in wake boats.
Could you explain to me the criteria surrounding selecting the proper sized drive shaft? I've looked into this in the past year and couldn't find conclusive evidence that lead me to believe that the shaft is sized incorrectly for the mass of the boat+ballast.

Based on this opinion, let's look at the numbers. A shaft that is 1-7/8" D vs 1-1/8" D has a cross sectional area that is 2.77x that of the smaller original standard sized drive shaft...

I didn't say that it was a widespread issue, you said it hadn't happened and I said there was a reported instance on this board.
Old     (JWalk)      Join Date: Aug 2013       09-18-2014, 3:05 PM Reply   
I did not say it hadn't happened I said I haven't heard of one yet. Every brand is going to have it happen a few times a year. My point was that is not a chronic issue that should steer someone away from a 2014 G21. I am not even going to pretend I am smart enough to diagnose the situation, Nautique has the best of the best that are paid to make sure it will work. I sell what they give me to sell and they do a pretty good job of giving us a product that is hard to beat.
Old     (OneCent)      Join Date: Jul 2010       09-29-2014, 2:16 AM Reply   
Hmm, hard decision.. the offer i got for a 22 VLX.. its less expensive then the used G21 (one with 50h, another with 150h but different options). The 22vlx is less expensive with all the 2015 Malibu gadgets like the G4 Tower, Clamp Racks, all the useless Lights they put one... Before the G-Series, the decision would be so easy ;-).

G21:

+ very nice made and no carpet, the small solutions like access to the pumps and Batterie is clever.
+ huge subfloor ballast
+ Storage
+ everything is on hinges (i like that a lot)
- Linc II is slow
- The sun deck is not really chill friendly, the sun pad filler cushion don't make a that bis difference ;-)

My conclusion: Its a Wakeboard, Wakesurf Maschine but lacks a little bit on the "chill" Faktor.

22VLX:

+ G4 Tower with 2-4 Racks
+ Bimini with Surfpockets
+ Power Wedge II is a clever Solution
+ New Dash is fantastic, the first one that has enough speed.
+ chill friendly sun deck with cupholder.
- a lot of carpet
- Subfloor ballast is limited, PnP eats the storage.

My conclusion: its a more family friendly boat, with no question a good Wake for Wakebard and Wakesurf.

Both dealers are just a few miles away from the marina, thats why i don't look for Supra SC, or a Mastercraft.

In the morning i prefer the Malibu, 4h later one of the G21, then again the Malibu and later the.... I know its a first world problem, but at the moment i would feel a lot better if i was brand addicted ;-)

Anyway, thanks a lot for all your answers... i will make the decision in the next 5 days.. i need some sleep ;-)

Bit (OneCent)

Last edited by OneCent; 09-29-2014 at 2:19 AM. Reason: user

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