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Old     (gmarkham1)      Join Date: Sep 2003       10-17-2006, 7:25 PM Reply   
http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65919/332208.html

I remembered seeing this thread and when driving by the old pond this past weekend I saw the real estate sign...

http://www.whitemarshrealtyonline.com/listings.php?l=R2240&type=

3br ranch with 35 acres, large pole shed and the pond 199,900

not a bad deal even if you just want your own private ski/board pond!
Old     (kikitlo)      Join Date: Jul 2005       10-17-2006, 8:49 PM Reply   
Its crazy that a 1/4 acre here in Stockton CA goes for 2 and a half times that
Old     (cweb)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-18-2006, 8:07 AM Reply   
I am looking into this right now. How many people from the midwest would come to this if it was reopened? Do you think it could attract pros for a couple comps each year??
Old     (scottyb)      Join Date: Sep 2002       10-18-2006, 8:55 AM Reply   
Yes you could, and if this is big enough for a boat pass that would be quite a deal.
Old     (cweb)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-18-2006, 8:57 AM Reply   
It is big enough for a boat pass, however my understanding is that the turnaround is pretty sharp. I am going to look at it saturday.
Old     (scooby76)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-18-2006, 9:04 AM Reply   
the lake is very narrow to allow a boat pass and turn around with a weighted boat. Although right now with all the water out it would be alittle easier to widen it at least at turning points.

But if you do reopen it I would make the trip up a couple time a season.
Old     (uppledup17)      Join Date: Sep 2005       10-18-2006, 9:26 AM Reply   
Is that price correct??? One state away in Illinois would be like four times that at a minimum.
Old     (cweb)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-18-2006, 9:32 AM Reply   
The price is correct. It seems that there are a few issues with the pond holding wter, and being large enough to accomodate a boat. Ideally it would be awesome to get a few companys to sponsor it with advertising, and to hold several comps a year. The location is also kind of in the middle of nowhere. So well see. I will have a better idea Saturday.
Old     (uppledup17)      Join Date: Sep 2005       10-18-2006, 9:42 AM Reply   
Definitely let me know that scoop Cweb, I would be really intersted in something like this. Midwest Wake Ranch, I can see the possibilites. And there is a great Camp north of there and I am sure Gordy would help the cause.

(Message edited by uppledup17 on October 18, 2006)
Old     (cweb)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-18-2006, 9:45 AM Reply   
I will let everyone know. I can't do it on my own, and that will factor into it too. Gotta convince my buddies still, but they seem pretty open to the idea. I am also wondering how hard/ expensive it would be to just convert it to a cable park?? the pond is already there...
Old     (stanfield)      Join Date: Mar 2004       10-18-2006, 10:00 AM Reply   
That thing looks like barely more than a ditch. You'll need a much larger area for a cable park. I'd be most concerned about why the thing isn't holding water. Besides a liner, there's not much that can be done for that. I'm sure there's a reason why it's priced as low as it is.
Old     (cweb)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-18-2006, 10:05 AM Reply   
The pond itself is 17 acres. (so im told..again, i havent seen it in person) And they have had wakeboats on it before, so it must be decent sized. Does anyone know anything about liners?? i am looking for all the input i can get. I think it would be a huge asset to the midwest, but it has to be a smart move....
Old     (magellan)      Join Date: Feb 2003       10-18-2006, 10:08 AM Reply   
Not sure a cable would be cost effective if open only for five (at most) months a year... Unless...you pulled snowboarders in the winter.

I'm a Genius!!!
Old     (cweb)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-18-2006, 10:12 AM Reply   
i had some other ideas for the winter. Rent the house for Snowmobilers....etc. Maybe heat the Pond and ride all winter! i wish.....
Old     (gmarkham1)      Join Date: Sep 2003       10-18-2006, 10:39 AM Reply   
Chris email me....
Old     (cweb)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-18-2006, 11:41 AM Reply   
Thanks gordon...got it. Anyone else have any thoughts?? stories from being there in the past?
Old     (99xstar)      Join Date: Aug 2005       10-18-2006, 11:56 AM Reply   
One of my friends looked into putting a cable park on his pond pretty seriously. It was in the range of $750,000 before the insurance, which is a lot.

I'd make the trip over for sure to ride there if you ended up with the place. I hope you find out good things this weekend.
Old     (cweb)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-18-2006, 12:08 PM Reply   
Ouch...haha maybe well stick to jetskis. Comeon guys, we need 20 people to all get 2gether and throw down $100 a month to have our own private pond. Well all bust balls to get it operational, then hold a couple comps there every year to offset our costs. ANyone??
Old     (mjmurphy53711)      Join Date: Mar 2004       10-18-2006, 12:18 PM Reply   
Im not sure if 750k is accurate.

Cable park setup should go for 250k plus the lake....and I know you can have one dug from scratch for around 200k.

Chris, Midwestwakeboarder supports the cause, I would invest in it.
Old     (cweb)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-18-2006, 12:21 PM Reply   
Mike, we should see if we can get abunch of people to do this. It would be complicated, but it could work. Start a L.L.C. for titling purposes, and go from there. I see no reason to use cable or dig a new pond..just make this one better, build bigger, better rails, put in a decent sound system, and RIDE. I wish it was that easy, but i still think it could be done.
Old     (spoonman)      Join Date: Aug 2005       10-18-2006, 12:37 PM Reply   
You could put one of those big golf domes over it and heat it all winter...
Old     (cweb)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-18-2006, 12:39 PM Reply   
That would be insane!, although you would have to have some awesome ventiliation to run boats, unless you made it a cable park. I am not looking to make this my career or a huge investment. I want to get a bunch of people together who want to get it going, hold a few comps, and be able to use it every weekend for a minimal amount per month. Maybe breaking even on the mortgage if you have acouple large comps, or are able to get it sponsored. (the RED BULL PHAT POND) has a nice ring to it.
Old    drcrow2            10-18-2006, 1:07 PM Reply   
cweb your enthusiasm is great! However I would not plan on making any money from this venture. Breaking even at best will require alot of work. I worked for a ski school outside of Dallas when I was in high school and it never made any money. It is of course closed now. You keep refering to making money on comps? That lake held comps and never made a dime!

I know that when it was built in the late 80's it cost 75k just to dig the lake. They to had a problem with holding water after it was dug and had to have 5ft of clay brought in to fill the leak(hit sand in the middle or the lake).

As a suggestion I would contact places like OWC or TSR and see what there P&L statements look like. Also ask them about maintenance cost.

The other problem is usage time. If 20 people go in on this how do you manage water time. Can you rely on those 20 people to come up with repair money, god forbid the damn break. I can hear it now hey guys we need $10,000 worth of dirt work done everyone come up with $500. Doesn't sound like much money but there will be the one guy who says "I haven't even used the lake this year why should I pay".

I hate to be negative about this,
on second thought I'm not being negative this is what can and will happen!
Old     (dcooper)      Join Date: Mar 2005       10-18-2006, 1:08 PM Reply   
You could rent it for private parties or use. They bring their own boat and stay in the house. Just schedule you or investors personal time. Somewhat like a multi ownership vacation home. Or rent time to a wakeboard school during the time you won't be using it. This would help offset some of your cost and be easy to market through a local shop or dealership. Looking at the listing it did say it was commercial zoning, this means that if there is no residental zoning use permitted your up front investment would be more, when financing. If it is residential, if the home is manufactured you may have a tough time financing it as anything other than a lot or raw ground. Just thoughts... would be great if you work it out!
Old     (cweb)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-18-2006, 1:14 PM Reply   
As i said above, i dont plan on making money, more so, i just want to have access to a place like this nearby. I dont want to have to go to KC watersports to hit some decent rails. By making money on Comps, i dont mean a large amount, maybe having a food tent setup, some apparel, stuff like that. Again, nothing big, unless we could get a few pros to come up. I think its a long shot to make it happen, but so far i have 5 or 6 people who would love to be in on it. I need to find out more about the pond. Does it hold water well now?? (doesnt look like it), how much to put in a liner, do i have to drain it every winter, etc. These are all very important questions that i dont know the answers to.
Old     (cweb)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-18-2006, 1:19 PM Reply   
Cooper, that is kinda what i had in mind with renting it out. especially in the winter as it is close to a very popular snowmobile destination. Again, if anyone knows anything about private ponds.....POST!!!
Old     (electricsnow)      Join Date: May 2002       10-18-2006, 1:26 PM Reply   
I used to ride at that place when it was open. It is a smaller lake, and I don't think there's enough room for a cable, considering grant insisted that when you turned around in the corners, you had to stay behind the boat (it's very shallow on the corners).

They did have at least one comp there, which was the finals for the now defunct wisconsin wakeboard tour. I don't really know how well it would work for a pro-caliber event, to be perfectly honest. All in all, that lake is pretty small.

And I know that at one point, they wanted that place to be an 'extreme sports park' of sorts, with a moto cross track out there somewhere, but obviously that never happened.

Anyway,I'd be psyched to have a place somewhat near by to ride at. it's a two hour round trip, but otherwise it's either 5 hours to the cabin (when someone's there to pull me) or 7 hours round trip to ride with a friend in oconomowoc.

Right, one other thing is, if I remember correctly (or at least this was the explanation I was given) that lake had the tendency to grow a lot of weeds, or some such lush greenery at the bottom of the lake, due to the fertilizers used in near by fields. I suppose that might be something to consider...
Old     (cweb)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-18-2006, 1:29 PM Reply   
Yea, i was thinking more of a best trick/slider type comp. I dont think its deep enough for a boat to throw a serious wake.
Old     (mjmurphy53711)      Join Date: Mar 2004       10-18-2006, 1:34 PM Reply   
Now would be the time to dig it out and widen the corners for a proper turn.

One important thing to consider from a business model standpoint is that the new watersports complex mastercraft sponsored is supposed to have a cable park going in the next couple years. Its not to far north of there either.
Old     (cweb)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-18-2006, 1:44 PM Reply   
I guess i hadnt heard of that. Where is it located?? Although it doesnt really make a difference as i am not looking to make this a business. I just want a place for me and some close friends to be able to do what we want and hit some kick-a sliders. Maybe host a few slider comps for fun. NOT looking to make a living from it.
Old     (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       10-18-2006, 1:57 PM Reply   
If you are just doing it for fun. I say go for it. I would not do it with partners. Just sell your house and move out there. If things get to expensive and you have some friends that really like the idea sell them lots so that they can build houses by the lake.
Old     (mjmurphy53711)      Join Date: Mar 2004       10-18-2006, 2:00 PM Reply   
I would suggest attempting to procure a land lease, the property is sitting there and someone has to pay taxes on it.

A lawyer would need to be involved, I can help with that if things get serious enough.

The cable park is going to be at the plover complex, about an hour from there. Three tournament lakes, a mastercraft museum, condos, and a cable lake for 08 is the last I heard.

One of the lakes is already being used for collegiate comps.
Old     (cweb)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-18-2006, 2:05 PM Reply   
jon---the partners would be friends or fellow wakeboarders with the same intentions as i have. and buying it myself isnt an option. It is 2.5 hours from where i work, and i dont have that kinda $$$. It would be a dream to have access to a place like this, and its not that expensive if 10 people or more could split it, if not, well, back to the rock river....maybe i can get a permit to build a slider there.
Old     (99xstar)      Join Date: Aug 2005       10-18-2006, 2:21 PM Reply   
750k is the estimate my friend got for his pond after everything was said and done. I'm sure it varies place to place and what you have involved in it.

Chris, I know I'd rent the place out for a week if it is a wakeboard specific setup. Keep looking into it.
Old     (cweb)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-18-2006, 2:24 PM Reply   
I will....i just hope that pond is not too big a pain/expense to get up and running.
Old     (ifinallygota21v)      Join Date: Oct 2006       10-19-2006, 5:43 AM Reply   
if i worked in wisco i would be all over this place. property is a great investment and 35 acres with house and ski lake for 199k is awesome. someday the sun will shine down on me.
Old     (wakepunk16)      Join Date: May 2005       10-19-2006, 6:41 AM Reply   
hell yea the phat pond use to be the bomb till they closed it down. We thought about going and stealing all the rails and putting them on a friend’s lake near by. Chris I think this is just what us wisco riders need, and riders will come. we threw a little wakeboard weekend in northern Wisconsin bout a hour south of lake superior in the sticks at a resort this summer, just to have some fun and get a bunch of wakeboarders together and ended up with over 60 kids rockin it all weekend, with a double up comp and bunch of girls to ride in the boat and judge, just a perfect weekend. wisco has some riders and most are willing to travel to find some good riding, a comp at phat pond where everyone could camp and have a lil fiesta would rock. I think it would be an awesome place to hang out and learn some new things...
Old     (gmarkham1)      Join Date: Sep 2003       10-19-2006, 6:50 AM Reply   
wakepunk....

I encourage you to check out midwestwakeboarder.com if you havent already, we had a similar get together in southern wisconsin last month.
Old     (cweb)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-19-2006, 6:55 AM Reply   
I will continue to look into it, but after my good first impression, there are several things that worry me.
1. I will have to put a liner in the pond (big $$$)
2.It would need to be dug bigger to make it right. (more $$$)
3.Im not loaded, so $199k is still alot, and without several people with the same crazy vision, it isnt going to work.

I agree totally that this would be a great thing for the midwest. And would love to pioneer it this time around. But i dont know if i have the resources to do it. Anyone out there looking for an investment?? i would love to help, but i dont think i could get the $300-$400k it would probably take to get it into proper running form. If it was $199K done deal, i would do it, but even that was a stretch. Now its just out of my league.
Old     (cweb)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-19-2006, 6:57 AM Reply   
Also, if the right person undertook the task, you could probably split it into small lots, and make small, affordable modular homes that people like us could purchase as vacation homes next to a slider park. This would help provide some profit to the entire project. But again, i dont have the funds to undertake a project of that caliber. But overall, i think this piece of property has TONS of potential to be a huge asset to the wakeboarding scene in the midwest, and i would love to help if anyone else is interested.
Old     (fox)      Join Date: Jul 2002       10-19-2006, 7:37 AM Reply   
When you talk about lining a pond, I don't think they mean like a rubber liner like your koi pond in the backyard type thing. I think "lining" a pond means depositing clay, or the right type of soil, that will allow the lake to hold the water and not percolate it away. I think this sounds uber cool, but I am at least 7 hours away. You couldn't even find 35 acres near me for that price and I live in the sticks.
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       10-19-2006, 8:58 AM Reply   
If that were close to were I live, I would buy it, dig it, line it, fill it, and leave it closed to the public. I wish I could find something like that around here.
Old     (chaser)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-19-2006, 10:55 AM Reply   
Hey Mike, where can I find more info on that complex to be built in Plover. I'm only 25 minutes from Plover!
Old     (mjmurphy53711)      Join Date: Mar 2004       10-19-2006, 1:54 PM Reply   
Wish I knew, the only people who would know are at www.redlinewatersports.com

I do know there is condos already for sale on at least one of the lakes, and I hear the cable lake is on "hold" and looking at closer to 2010 than anytime soon.
Old     (otiswunguy)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-19-2006, 4:13 PM Reply   
That sounds like the same kind of set up that the have at koppert lake in washington
http://www.activeh20.com/
what a rockin deal. You can hardly find a decent condo for that price in seattle.
Old     (wondermike)      Join Date: Apr 2006       10-19-2006, 4:41 PM Reply   
Cweb i would be interested in investing in this if we get enough serious people.

1 1/2 hours from work if it was closer i would consider the commute and live in the sticks.

How deep is that thing looks like it needs to go deeper. If enough interested parties get involved even before buying we could split costs of a land surveyor might be a good idea to check out the soil.
Old     (cweb)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-20-2006, 6:30 AM Reply   
wondermike.....email me cweber@rbcsuccess.com
Old     (mojo_riser)      Join Date: Feb 2003       10-21-2006, 4:58 PM Reply   
My crew and I rode there all the time, we put the sliders in there. I am also in real estate. So just a heads up on the property. The pond sits on 3 different parcels. The house sits on one for $199,900. You would have to buy all 3 in order to do what you want to do to the pond. A boat on there is a bad idea. A waverunner fine.

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