Articles
   
       
Pics/Video
       
Wake 101
   
       
       
Shop
Search
 
 
 
 
 
Home   Articles   Pics/Video   Gear   Wake 101   Events   Community   Forums   Classifieds   Contests   Shop   Search
WakeWorld Home
Email Password
Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Wakeboarding Discussion Archives > Archive through February 23, 2009

Share 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old     (hayes)      Join Date: Aug 2007       01-05-2009, 3:49 PM Reply   
I know flex has advantages for pressing. But for anyone who has ridden flex and traditional boards; do flex boards pop as well as traditional core boards?

I remember when honeycomb wakeboards were popular that their main advantage over foam cores were their flex resistance (core strength). Any flex a wakeboard has will absorb energy from the wake thus making your jumps lower. Kind of like when you absorb a jump off of the wake instead of standing tall.

I know this will open up a can of worms, but I think it will be a good discussion.

(Message edited by hayes on January 05, 2009)
Old     (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Minnesnowda       01-05-2009, 3:50 PM Reply   
enter the angry flexers-

I am going to make some Pop corn and grab a beer this oughta get heated real quick.
Old     (westsidarider)      Join Date: Feb 2003       01-05-2009, 4:18 PM Reply   
hahahaha send me one andy

it really depends on your riding style whether the flex will benefit or hinder you. some people get the idea of lading up the board as well as the line and can use it to make their riding better and go bigger. while some people ride in a style where they would not be able to gain the same amount of pop.

forgive me with the horible quality but these pics were taken when i used to ride the roam. lately i switched off because i needed a little more fin than the roam had to offer

Upload
Upload
Upload
Old     (wakeviolater)      Join Date: Sep 2004       01-05-2009, 4:21 PM Reply   
those pictures are photoshopped!

Old     (westsidarider)      Join Date: Feb 2003       01-05-2009, 4:29 PM Reply   
damnit al. your not supposed to call me out that early
Old     (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       01-05-2009, 4:35 PM Reply   
I am not angry and wont be eating any worms so if anything i say sounds like such, it was not meant that way

I think the majority of folks had the same question before trying flex, especially as slingshot was emerging. the little animation of a guy flexing the board with his hands with seemingly little effort (that was on their intro site) brought on a lot of curiosity, be it negative or positive or otherwise.

most commonly people use(d) experiences of "breaking in boards" and how they get "softer" and "loose pop over a while" to make points

I think the best way to describe this whole thing IMO is thinking of a spring.(forgive my use of a comparison, but i like them best and are visual)

As you cut into the wake you are in a sense loading a spring and compressing it, storing up energy for a POP! when you hit the wake and pop into the air all that energy is released at the tip of the wake and the spring goes flying.

In the same sense of a spring, the board like a spring can absorb energy for impacts.

In essence of your question;
Does flex absorb? YES!
But it also can store up energy.
------------------------------------------------------

another common comparison made is to that of another wakeboarding term--> "loading the line"

on a flex board you load both the line and the board, that is why many also say that the boards take practice and experience (meaning "time with the board" and not so much "wake experience" in general). if you don't have a good progressive edge you don't load the spring. this is why some think they are not good for beginners, but i personally beg to differ... because that board has helped my edging more than anything. why wouldn't you want a board that rewards you for good form?
-------------------------------------------------------

another important note to make:
There is a reason that more flex boards are popping up and even companies devoted to flex such as slingshot, company, and humanoid. LF has a flex line and so too does obrien, and others are working in the word "flex" in some where or another in some board specs, even if it is not a "flex board". some important and big name figures in wake history have switched (I.E. Randall Harris). i think that speaks for itself too.



(Message edited by wakerider111 on January 05, 2009)
Old     (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       01-05-2009, 4:45 PM Reply   
even if i were not getting more pop, though i "feel" like i sure am, i would still ride and recommend flexboards like slingshot just because how much more FUN in general the board has made my riding for me... even at my humble intermediate riding level. I also think the flex and featureless bottoms have made my riding more precise, in that i can save some of the bad landings. it took some time to get used to the control where i could use the "slipperiness" to my advantage but not long. and that time was a super fun time as well!
Old     (romes)      Join Date: Sep 2006       01-05-2009, 5:05 PM Reply   
wow^^^

i rode a SS for a minute. it was fun but it just wasnt for me. i like to slide it but its not my personal preferance behind the boat. it did however force me to re-emphasize the fundamentals while riding it. you have to correctly edge into the wake to make it work just right.
Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       01-05-2009, 6:02 PM Reply   
i got way more pop from my "traditional" board. my "traditional" board also landed way softer. and the bindings sucked. i might as well have been riding solbounds, imo the worst bindings ever!

am i closing the door on flex? on one particular brand, i suppose. i do want to try company's board and bindings though.
Old     (joshbuzz)      Join Date: Sep 2007       01-05-2009, 6:10 PM Reply   
errrr.

I feel there's a lot of propaganda against flex and not a lot of open minds. Flex is great for wake, you still get booted just as high, it just takes a week or so to get used to it.

the board pops you with the same theory of doing an ollie, you push down into the water thus the water pushing back giving you a bigger ollie. Well you come edging into the wake on a good edge and the board flexes in the trough and then as you edge through and jump it snaps back therefore giving you the same boost as a crazy three stage board or the such. then when you land the board absorbs the impact so you have a softer landing to.

the things kill it on rails to, but that's not their purpose originally, they are still a wakeboard to be ridden on wake. Trust the engineers sittin back at slingshot that got the patent for the board, they're not selling em cause they don't work...
Old     (benjaminp)      Join Date: Nov 2008       01-05-2009, 6:24 PM Reply   
We are getting into personal preference here. I think the answer is no, flex does not defeat the purpose for wake riding. If flex is used properly, it can increase pop. Whether or not people like it is a different story.
Old     (joshbuzz)      Join Date: Sep 2007       01-05-2009, 6:34 PM Reply   
Wow, glad companies new bindings look almost identical to SS's, and the board construction is wayyyy similar.

Way to throw some more negativity and useless information out there.

PB's are some of the comfiest bindings I've ever put on my feet. I've ridden shanes before and watsons, and they were comfy, no doubt, but I prefer the PB's ten fold.
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       01-05-2009, 8:13 PM Reply   
I rode only a roam for about 1/2 years, loved it... then Ronix came out, hopped on that, then slingshot came and I can say without a doubt, 100% sure, FOR ME (not for everyone) the SS pops WAY WAY WAY WAY better than foam boards...

Best popping boards I've ever been on
1. SS Recoil
2. Byerly Monach/Old Byerly DNA core boards - tie
3. Roam
4. Ibex

once you learn how to control the flex and use it to your advantage it because amazing.

Just ask think about a diving board....
Jump on a 6"x6" that is 8' long and see how high you bounce
now...
jump on a 2"x6" that is 8' long....

which do you go higher with?
Old     (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       01-05-2009, 8:37 PM Reply   
Joe U.

don't close the door yet on slingshot. i remember you saying once that binding fit/comfort was more important (to you) than the board being ridden... or something like that, am i right?

anyway, try one of the '09 ones with bindings you DO like,

try Company (i believe that is already in your agenda).. and bring your boots when trying that one too since the company boots are very similar to slingshot

and then try Humanoid (when it comes out)

... I still have yet to try the LF Shane, maybe an opportunity will arise (@ Bro-Stock maybe). I like to try every board i can, even if it's just for fun... it is just that opportunity does not arise too often for me, especially in li'l, remote Page AZ.


--------------------------------------------------



I have a feeling that Humanoid is going to attract some attention with those "flex boards WITH bottom features." I think they might pull some of the peeps that are still unsure of flex... AND the flat bottoms.

me... i never thought i'd like featureless bottoms in the begining of my switch, but now I am not sure if i want to go with features again either... at least not ones that are too prominent. I soo love the flexy-loosness!!
Old     (morty)      Join Date: Oct 2006       01-05-2009, 11:46 PM Reply   
I kind of laugh at the comparison of slingshots to solbounds, solbounds are sweet but way different than slingshots. On one hand you have almost nothing but a rubber overlay, and on the other you practically have a snowboard boot. I know for some reason you hate both but the comparison seems kind of out there.
Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       01-05-2009, 11:48 PM Reply   
yeah, it is pretty funny, but the one i rode didn't have much of a footbed...like the solbounds. there's no denying that.
Old     (joshbuzz)      Join Date: Sep 2007       01-06-2009, 12:48 AM Reply   
I see where you're coming from Joe, I feel like we go toe to toe on issues like this all the time, and it's kind of fun. No denying that LF bindings have some of the cushiest footbeds around, and that is awesome. I'm also not convinced that because your set up is 3 pounds lighter it makes you ride different, I'm just not sold, and I'm not saying that about the LF stuff. I got a chance to check out the new Ronix stuff this weekend at the show, and wow are the bindings light, but I don't think that'll change the way people ride very much at all. 90% of the people switching to the new, lighter stuff aren't spinning 7's and higher which is where all this talk of swing weight really could, potentially come into play. anyways, the ronix footbed matches up to the SS footbed about the same this year. with the baseless features, you really get to see how thick their footbed really is, and I'm not that impressed. LF definitely has the softest feeling bindings but to me the construction of the SS boots is unbeatable and when matched with the flex board is sick. 09 SS bindings are a little more cushy, and the new shapes are revolutionary compared to 08 where the recoil felt to slow, or the response to fast. They've really improved on the technology which I didn't see happening because it's come so far already!

Keep an open mind, give some of the new stuff a shot, and see. I know you love your LF, and I think they have great stuff to! The Press is super nice, I just feel like SS is a step above.

It took me a week or so to even get used to the flex, the first set I took on it I fell twice, threw the board back in the boat, and wouldn't strap up again that day. I went right back to my truck after that and grabbed my Tribute out of the car, and rode that until I broke it and was forced to ride the SS for a couple weeks while warranty did it's thing or not ride at all. When I got the Tribute back, I couldn't switch back and it's been the same ever since. I've tried to ride the fish, shane, axis, tribute, murray, and a couple CWB's of my friends, and I hated it every time.

change takes time, and open minds, hope everyone gives it a shot sometime!
Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       01-06-2009, 12:59 AM Reply   

quote:

I'm also not convinced that because your set up is 3 pounds lighter it makes you ride different




i agree!

i don't mind our debates one bit. i don't take it personally nor do i try to take personal shots. i hope my posts to you aren't taken that way.

i guess slingshot left a really bad taste in my mouth. maybe if someone i ride with has a newer ss w/ newer ss bindings, cool, i'll check it out. but i won't lie to you, i'm not going out of my way to try a set.
Old     (joshbuzz)      Join Date: Sep 2007       01-06-2009, 1:04 AM Reply   
haha, I'm glad these aren't personal arguments on either side, and I hope in our discussion people are just learning new things haha.

Personal opinion, I agree with you. If you're happy on your setup, and don't feel the need for change, or don't have a catalyst for change like I did, why do it? Hope you get a chance to ride some of the new stuff sometime, but for now, shred that California butter on the Shane, and keep gettin some good footy!

I'm also glad you're in the west coast and are up at 1 your time so I'm not posting to myslef at 3 in the morning in Texas lol.

I'll be at the Boat Show all day tomorrow and can't check this til I get home late at night!
Old     (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Minnesnowda       01-06-2009, 5:37 AM Reply   
Still munching pop corn!~
Old     (eyekahn)      Join Date: Aug 2007       01-06-2009, 6:24 AM Reply   
Flex will be the norm in wakeboards in the coming years. It is superior to any other type of board in every way.
Old     (luke_j)      Join Date: Jul 2008       01-06-2009, 6:49 AM Reply   
I don't think Flex is the entire future for wakeboarding. I think it definitely has its place, but I also think there's a reason LF doesn't capitalize too hard on their flex line. I think there will always be standard core boards around, and I think the PVC core stuff (FLY core, Dark core, and Nova core) will always be the high-end performance machines, and I think the flexboards will be an alternative route for free-riding.
Old     (wakebrdr38)      Join Date: Sep 2006       01-06-2009, 7:10 AM Reply   
i think flex will have a bigger impact on park riding as people start to build their own winch systems and cable parks in their back yards. i think these parks are the future in wakeboarding. I know this is a little bit off subject but i would really like to see click in bindings as an option especially as these back yard setups start to happen. looks like for now the best thing is hinge tech. so a park board like the reflex, with park bindings for even more easy in/out
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       01-06-2009, 7:30 AM Reply   
"It is superior to any other type of board in every way."

Wow! That's interesting.

To address the original question.....I have always thought that the flex would hinder your riding, or "defeat the purpose" as you say. I still haven't ridden one (unless you count the roam), so I've kept my mouth shut, but I have ridden boards that were not stiff and I hated them. The not so stiff boards absorbed the pop for me. I was able to take the Roam pretty big, and into the flats, but not like a stiff board that snaps hard off of the wake.

I'm sure most of the pros have ridden flex boards by now. I still don't see them jumping to convert their own boards into flex board models.
Old     (luke_j)      Join Date: Jul 2008       01-06-2009, 7:40 AM Reply   
I think hinge bindings are going to be on their way out soon. I mean I can step into a pair of answers without even opening the hinge or using my hands. Most bindings are as easy to get into as hinge bindings without all the added hardware.
Old     (seattle)      Join Date: Mar 2002       01-06-2009, 7:57 AM Reply   
It's strange for me. I refused to even try the Roam until last summer. I actually hated it the first time I rode. I decided I'd force myself to ride it in an effort to clean up my form and edging. After riding it for a month or so I fell in love with the rubber band effect it has off the wake. It's my #1 board now and I rarely pull my standard board out of the rack unless it's really choppy. On the flip side I tried the Slingshot and got repeatedly worked. The snap was really unpredictable off the wake and I didn't like the fact that the tip and tail are really flexible yet the center seems really stiff. I gave up after knocking myself out on the damn thing!
Old     (bmartin)      Join Date: Jan 2007       01-06-2009, 9:22 AM Reply   
Flex works and so do solid core boards and it boils down to preferences and being willing to get used a different ride. Because I have old man knees I switched to SS because of the really soft landings and if it were not for the landings I would probably be still riding a traditional board. There is nothing like landing on a flex board. After you get used to flex, I do not think you give anything up on pop. Like most things, equipment only accounts for a small percentage of performance....most of it is in the skill, attitude, and practice of the user.
Old     (flexnwake)      Join Date: Oct 2007       01-06-2009, 12:14 PM Reply   
Andy Nintzel
"enter the angry flexers"

I wouldn't say angry but more or less passionate about what ride we want and sick of the old school...


Bmartin
"Like most things, equipment only accounts for a small percentage of performance....most of it is in the skill, attitude, and practice of the user."

That's one of the cleanest sentence's i've read on this post. Love it because its the truth...

Your either down with it or not.
Old     (ttrigo)      Join Date: Dec 2004       01-06-2009, 12:37 PM Reply   
SS changed the way I felt about this sport. I was all set to just give up riding altogether, as I felt I was not improving one bit. plus, my old board killed my knees when I would land in the flats.
I would recommend everyone to try one out if possible. give it a couple of sets. I was sold on it my first set, but I knew it would take a while to get used to the pop.
I can't see myself going back to a traditional board ever again.
Old     (jdwake1)      Join Date: Sep 2007       01-06-2009, 12:43 PM Reply   
I can't wait for my reflex to get in!!!
Old    Slingshot            01-06-2009, 4:03 PM Reply   
Flex is cool. It allows you to go just as big or bigger as a solid foam core board. The board stores the energy from the progressive edge cut, and when you hit the top of the wake, it releases that energy popping you into the air. The tip and tail are the most flexy part of the board so you land softer, plus you can pull off bad landings easier by leaning back and buttering out of them. Flex gives you more control of the wakeboard and saves your knees when you want to take huge jumps out into the flats. Now, some people are not going to be into the flex boards, and that's ok. Slingshot just wants to give the market something new and fresh to try. That's what we are all about, mixing it up, and it sounds like a lot of riders out there are becoming diehard flex fans.
Old     (flexnwake)      Join Date: Oct 2007       01-06-2009, 4:18 PM Reply   
Hey that's another good one! Nice one.

is sometimes hard to understand.... But it does look like its getting easier.

(Message edited by flexnwake on January 06, 2009)

(Message edited by flexnwake on January 06, 2009)
Old     (hayes)      Join Date: Aug 2007       01-06-2009, 5:38 PM Reply   
What about a slingshot pay it forward? I would definitely be interested in trying one out, but there are no dealers in my area.
Old     (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       01-06-2009, 8:59 PM Reply   
Soft landings was the number one reason for me searching out slingshot from the beginning and it will always boil down to the number one reason (if only one reason could be chosen)for staying with flex

--------------------------------------------------------

quote:

I'm sure most of the pros have ridden flex boards by now. I still don't see them jumping to convert their own boards into flex board models.




I am not so sure how many pros have ridden flex boards. I think many have not. Close to Randal's switch to Company he answered a question about riding flex with quite a negative response if you remember. I get the "feeling" from Nicola's interview about switching that she had never ridden one up to practically the very day of switching to company. I don't know how much companies frown on their riders riding other companies boards, but sometimes i get a sense that some would be unhappy to find out their riders rode another board, especially if someone caught it on camera... but i am just speculating here.

but with these statements i too in no way expect flex to "dominate" the industry, but i do feel it is here to stay and will influence the industry more to come... similar to the introduction of CT boots. it will take some time, but i think every company is gona bend... or rather flex at some point. It has taken CT boots 4 years to enter every company (including 2009 for the obrien boots becoming fully available). we are now emerging on the 3rd year of flex, but it will probably take a li'l longer than ct boots i think!
Old     (ttrigo)      Join Date: Dec 2004       01-07-2009, 9:12 AM Reply   
walt hayes - SS has always been very open about demo programs. I am sure Kyle from SS will get in touch with you about how you can get a demo. great customer service. right up there with CWB on the service aspect of things.
Old     (jdwake1)      Join Date: Sep 2007       01-07-2009, 9:23 AM Reply   
"I don't know how much companies frown on their riders riding other companies boards, but sometimes i get a sense that some would be unhappy to find out their riders rode another board, especially if someone caught it on camera... but i am just speculating here. "

Actually this is quite true ( atleast for loyal riders ) When I was working at McCormicks cable park Andrew adkinson was a frequent and one day someone was riding a flex obrien and he said " that looks like fun." But when the guy offered him to try it he said "I would get into trouble." Although he said it kinda joking I just think his morals held him back I'm guessing he's really loyal...
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       01-07-2009, 9:31 AM Reply   
I remember seeing in some old mag someone was riding some board, not hyperlite... I assume they were sponsored because they had Byerly bindings (when they were 100% hyperlite) and he just had the overlays inside out and had the board company written on them in Sharpie, thats pretty lame too....
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       01-07-2009, 9:51 AM Reply   
Just a year or two ago there was a write up about 4 top pros swapping boards for a set. It was Rusty, Andrew, Watson I think, and one other.

It happens.
Old     (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Minnesnowda       01-07-2009, 10:28 AM Reply   
Quote:

By Slingshot (flexnwake) on Tuesday, January 06, 2009 - 12:14 pm:

Andy Nintzel
"enter the angry flexers"

I wouldn't say angry but more or less passionate about what ride we want and sick of the old school...


Just to be clear I dont think Flexers are Angry, I just thought that this would be a heated convo-
Old     (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-07-2009, 10:39 AM Reply   
J-rod, I think A LOT of the whole "I'm sure most of the pros have ridden flex boards by now. I still don't see them jumping to convert their own boards into flex board models." is more in the hands of the manufacturer than them. I dont want to mention any names but I was told directly from a board company owner that one of the most prolific owner/riders of wakeboard history wanted a flex board for his pro model and marketing wasnt having it...so they went with a regular board.

Another good example of this is Moto X. When the 4 strokes were first coming around and competing on the Supercross circuit the #1 team rider got to pick between the 2 and 4 stroke, the second guy was stuck on the other for marketing purposes...regardless of what he wanted to ride. - Point being that even if a rider could perform better on a 2 or 4 stroke... it wasn't his decision so much as marketing's decision as to what his factory bike would be.

(Message edited by liquidmx on January 07, 2009)
Old    justinh            01-07-2009, 1:09 PM Reply   
Wait a minute, old-school isn't cool anymore. Crap! I just got my OG card last week.
Old     (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Minnesnowda       01-07-2009, 1:32 PM Reply   
Me too Justin
Old     (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-07-2009, 1:48 PM Reply   
Dude, how did you get them? Can you forward me an application?!!!! I have been trying FOREVER!
Old     (homedawg678)      Join Date: Jan 2007       01-07-2009, 2:45 PM Reply   
What's an OG card ?
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       01-07-2009, 2:52 PM Reply   
You'll know when you get one.... nothing more can be said.

(Message edited by sidekicknicholas on January 07, 2009)
Old     (flexnwake)      Join Date: Oct 2007       01-07-2009, 3:02 PM Reply   
I could re-phase old-school to traditional
Old     (homedawg678)      Join Date: Jan 2007       01-07-2009, 3:09 PM Reply   
Gaiz!!! Pweeese tell meeeeeeeee!
Old     (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-07-2009, 3:47 PM Reply   
Its kind of like Fight Club....1st rule!
Old     (jdwake1)      Join Date: Sep 2007       01-07-2009, 4:05 PM Reply   
he's 15 I don't know if he's seen fight club!
Old     (homedawg678)      Join Date: Jan 2007       01-07-2009, 4:18 PM Reply   
Not allowed

<_<

>_>

Sike. Never seen it though.

Reply
Share 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 7:24 AM.

Home   Articles   Pics/Video   Gear   Wake 101   Events   Community   Forums   Classifieds   Contests   Shop   Search
Wake World Home

 

© 2019 eWake, Inc.    
Advertise    |    Contact    |    Terms of Use    |    Privacy Policy    |    Report Abuse    |    Conduct    |    About Us