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Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       08-15-2019, 9:50 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Can you send me the link, the car stuff I've seen doesn't look good
Let me see if I can find it again. It was on my phone news feed from Apple.

here is one I found with a google search:

https://www.housingwire.com/articles...ow-mba-reports

U.S. mortgage delinquency rate rises from 18-year low, MBA reports

Foreclosure inventory drops to lowest since 1995


Charge-Off and Delinquency Rates on Loans and Leases at Commercial Banks
https://www.federalreserve.gov/relea...f/delallsa.htm

Looks stable on this chart.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-15-2019, 10:36 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
I literally just told you.
Can you just send links to the econ measures you are referring to?
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-15-2019, 10:45 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Let me see if I can find it again. It was on my phone news feed from Apple.

here is one I found with a google search:

https://www.housingwire.com/articles...ow-mba-reports

U.S. mortgage delinquency rate rises from 18-year low, MBA reports

Foreclosure inventory drops to lowest since 1995


Charge-Off and Delinquency Rates on Loans and Leases at Commercial Banks
https://www.federalreserve.gov/relea...f/delallsa.htm

Looks stable on this chart.
That's certainly good news and probably a good measure for the middle class who can afford to own homes. Maybe the car delinquency is a better measure for the lower class who can't afford houses and don't pay cash for cars.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-15-2019, 10:46 AM Reply   
Here is some car loan data:
https://wolfstreet.com/2019/05/15/su...rket-in-years/
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       08-15-2019, 10:47 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Can you just send links to the econ measures you are referring to?
You can google as well as I can.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       08-15-2019, 10:48 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
That's certainly good news and probably a good measure for the middle class who can afford to own homes. Maybe the car delinquency is a better measure for the lower class who can't afford houses and don't pay cash for cars.
Middle class absolutely can not afford to pay cash for cars.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       08-15-2019, 10:50 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Wonder is things like car loan delinquency is a leading indicator? I would think that credit cards would be first hit. Then cars followed by housing.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-15-2019, 10:51 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Middle class absolutely can not afford to pay cash for cars.
Can the lower class afford to buy homes?
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-15-2019, 10:53 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Wonder is things like car loan delinquency is a leading indicator? I would think that credit cards would be first hit. Then cars followed by housing.
Maybe. Like most of these things its just a view into the bigger picture, not to be over emphasized but also not ignored.

https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/...-the-coal-mine
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-15-2019, 10:53 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
You can google as well as I can.
Sorry I thought you were saying that these are things you check regularly tho... I was taking you at your word and figured you could recommend some sites that you actually look at. My bad.

Here's an interesting graphic from the New York Fed's Liberty Street Economics Blog:

Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       08-15-2019, 11:58 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Can the lower class afford to buy homes?
Yes depending on where in the country. Much of the middle states have cheap old homes. Back in the clinton days they created loans to help lower income class get loans.

In california, if you qualify as lower income (in most bay area counties it is $102,000 a year family income), they give you zero interest down payment help of 3% and even closing cost grants.

So it really depends. Growing up in the midwest, it was actually cheaper to by a home than it was to rent.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       08-15-2019, 12:01 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Sorry I thought you were saying that these are things you check regularly tho... I was taking you at your word and figured you could recommend some sites that you actually look at. My bad.

Here's an interesting graphic from the New York Fed's Liberty Street Economics Blog:

Sorry. Thought you were being obtuse again. I don't check on the regular. Just those types of articles will catch my eye when reading my news feed and when I go to a specific progressive website they talk about those things. They still think they are for the middle class even though they are the elitists.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-15-2019, 12:35 PM Reply   
^^^^ I think that graphic on the growth of student loan defaults should be concerning. It's certainly a wedge that some pols are trying to exploit.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       08-15-2019, 12:39 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
^^^^ I think that graphic on the growth of student loan defaults should be concerning. It's certainly a wedge that some pols are trying to exploit.
I was just in the middle of thinking that myself. Student loans are a scam. The fact they made them non dischargeble screwed up the whole system and made price of education sky rocket. It certainly made availability of loans greater because they know they can get the money back. Now you have people getting $100,000 loans for underwater basket weaving and the schools don't care.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       08-15-2019, 12:41 PM Reply   
They also need to go back to tight credit card loan criteria. So much available credit made prices of good go up as well. Those things end up driving the wage gap.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       08-15-2019, 12:44 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
^^^^ I think that graphic on the growth of student loan defaults should be concerning. It's certainly a wedge that some pols are trying to exploit.
As far as a voting issue, excusing the debt is not the way. Neither is giving free education. Go back to tighter standards and those loans will fix themselves. Of course, then they will say poor people can not get an education again.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-16-2019, 1:53 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
As far as a voting issue, excusing the debt is not the way. Neither is giving free education. Go back to tighter standards and those loans will fix themselves. Of course, then they will say poor people can not get an education again.


From a personal responsibility perspective I don’t disagree with you. I hated the mortgage write down and relief programs of 10 years ago too. Seemed to be rewarding my neighbors for reckless financial behavior while penalizing me for being responsible.

But on a macro level, getting all of those mortgage defaulters back into the economy (and credit market) has probably been a good thing overall.

I don’t want to forgive the loans of doctors and lawyers who can afford to pay and would just be getting a windfall, but I can totally see how scraping off the nondischargeable scarlet letter of default from a whole generation of for-profit trade school borrowers could help the overall economy.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       08-16-2019, 2:40 AM Reply   
Just get rid of the unbankruptable rule and the loan problem will fix itself. Then we can focus on ways to get the public educated without relying on loans. We obviously need a public that is more educated, because no one really sees the effect of economic policy except on the most superficial level.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       08-18-2019, 5:40 PM Reply   
Hey wake, see how another one of your libtard candidates were Jonesin for endorsement at black churches as usual? I thought that only happened at redneck churches according to you. Problem for you and yours is the truth hurts: https://news.yahoo.com/kamala-harris...130204326.html
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       08-18-2019, 6:14 PM Reply   
https://www.salon.com/2019/08/17/blu...e-white-house/

Texas may not go blue for president next year (although I'll be casting my vote in Texas, so that's one more lol) but some pretty interesting stats regarding things at the state level

* In the last 8 years the GOP supermajority was reduced from 101-49 to 83-67
* 6 seats flipped in 2016, 12 more in 2018
* 9 flips needed for dems to take over in 2020
* in addition to the 12 flipped in 2018, 17 more districts were decided with margins of 1%
* 9 of those 17 went Beto over Cruz
* this is all despite a huge fundraising advantage for gop candidates
* also despite crazy levels of gerrymandering:

"Travis County, home to Austin, voted for Hillary Clinton over Donald Trump by nearly 39 points (66.3 to 27.4 percent), yet has been carved into six separate congressional districts — represented in Congress by five Republicans and one Democrat.

In 2018, Democrats won 47 percent of congressional votes in Texas, but hold a mere 13 of the 36 seats."
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       08-19-2019, 3:14 AM Reply   
Already voting democrat and you don't even know who the candidate is.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       08-19-2019, 3:15 AM Reply   
In 2020? You betcha. Although I suppose Trump could get primaried, but I don't see that happening.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       08-19-2019, 4:10 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by psudy View Post
Already voting democrat and you don't even know who the candidate is.
Commenting on that, yet ignoring all the posts saying that Trump is certain to win.
Old     (wombat2wombat)      Join Date: Sep 2018       08-19-2019, 10:45 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
I bet you keep wondering how many more burritos you are going to have to fold before they finally make you the CEO at Taco Bell.
Now that's funny AF! That's what I expect from you going forward
Old     (stevo8290)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-20-2019, 4:23 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
Just get rid of the unbankruptable rule and the loan problem will fix itself. Then we can focus on ways to get the public educated without relying on loans. We obviously need a public that is more educated, because no one really sees the effect of economic policy except on the most superficial level.

Not really a bad idea to get rid of the unbankruptable rule. But I'm not sure we need to keep college tracking the majority of students. Most of these kids end up in school until they are 24 or so. I think most people would be better of working for cheap in those formative years and gain skills and experience. It's a lie that everyone needs/deserves a "college education".
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       08-20-2019, 5:07 AM Reply   
I'm not claiming everyone needs to go to college. Even trade schools are hyper inflating under the current funding paradigm. Kids with a trade certificate like welding are coming out deep in debt. WRT kids being in school until they are 24, that doesn't mean much without context. Someone who is working to support themself and going to school part time until they are 24 doesn't strike me as a problem issue. Excessive number of courses before completing a degree would be a red flag for assistance. Using student loans for living expenses is another red flag.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-20-2019, 1:31 PM Reply   
Trumps cancelled his trip to Denmark because the PM refuses to sell him Greenland which wasn't for sale. Stable genius indeed.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-21-2019, 12:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Trumps cancelled his trip to Denmark because the PM refuses to sell him Greenland which wasn't for sale. Stable genius indeed.
The fact that even you are keying in on this red herring is more a testament to his genius than anything else. Nobody can change the conversation better than he can. It's almost like a superpower. So he can come up with wacky stuff like "buying greenland" when the news cycle isn't favoring him. No this story doesn't make him look smart, but it stops everyone from talking about the actual news for a while, AND makes you think about trump. Good for the brand!
Old     (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-21-2019, 3:16 AM Reply   
One thing I have noticed is that most president as they get into their 3rd/4th years really seem to age. I think of how Obama/Carter/Clinton looked at the end (which were 8 years). I am sure it is due to the unbelievable stress and pressure. So far no sign of that with Trump, although its only 2.5 years.I am just wondering if his previous business experiences and high power deals prepared him more for the pressure. Most of the presidents were career politicians and did not have intense jobs before their presidency. I am not claiming that makes him superior or anything, but just a thought I had looking at him and then some photos of Clinton this morning. Obviously everybody will look older after 8 years of intense pressure, but just a thought....
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       08-21-2019, 3:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
The fact that even you are keying in on this red herring is more a testament to his genius than anything else. Nobody can change the conversation better than he can. It's almost like a superpower. So he can come up with wacky stuff like "buying greenland" when the news cycle isn't favoring him. No this story doesn't make him look smart, but it stops everyone from talking about the actual news for a while, AND makes you think about trump. Good for the brand!
Yep. He is an enigma.

You’re getting sleeeeepy. Sleeeepy...
Old     (wombat2wombat)      Join Date: Sep 2018       08-21-2019, 4:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
The fact that even you are keying in on this red herring is more a testament to his genius than anything else. Nobody can change the conversation better than he can. It's almost like a superpower. So he can come up with wacky stuff like "buying greenland" when the news cycle isn't favoring him. No this story doesn't make him look smart, but it stops everyone from talking about the actual news for a while, AND makes you think about trump. Good for the brand!
Yeah Trumps a master. Almost like how the media stopped lying about Russia & changed the story to racist xenophobes who deserve to be punished for daring to vote for him. Damn bad Orange Man
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-21-2019, 4:18 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
Yep. He is an enigma.

You’re getting sleeeeepy. Sleeeepy...
LOL -- now THAT is funny.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-21-2019, 6:26 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
The fact that even you are keying in on this red herring is more a testament to his genius than anything else. Nobody can change the conversation better than he can. It's almost like a superpower. So he can come up with wacky stuff like "buying greenland" when the news cycle isn't favoring him. No this story doesn't make him look smart, but it stops everyone from talking about the actual news for a while, AND makes you think about trump. Good for the brand!
Not really, I haven't forgotten that he is crashing the economy or is a terrible human being. Luckily he followed up with more tweets a few hours later that the FED is incompetent and he considers himself king of the Jews to remind me. The thought that Trump is a genius playing 4d chess is laughable.
Old     (wombat2wombat)      Join Date: Sep 2018       08-21-2019, 6:31 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Not really, I haven't forgotten that he is crashing the economy or is a terrible human being. Luckily he followed up with more tweets a few hours later that the FED is incompetent and he considers himself king of the Jews to remind me. The thought that Trump is a genius playing 4d chess is laughable.
Except the facts & stats show another story. You're just reading the non stop propaganda machine. Russia failed, most people are tuning out the racist crap & the ONLY way they can beat Trump is with a bad economy. It isn't crashing & it's moronic for people wishing for it to happen so they can win an election.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       08-21-2019, 7:47 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Israel does not have the same constitution as we do and they actually have a law on the books that state that people who are party of the Defund Israel movement are not permitted to enter the country. The only reason they were debating them being able to come in was a favor to congress. I am indifferent about their decision not to let them in because those 2 people speak openly against Israel and are actively trying to destroy them.

Universities already ban right wing speakers so it does not matter if Mark approves or not.
How are they "actively trying to destroy them"?

When did being anti-Israel's government, become equated to being anti-Semitic? Does being opposed to the sitting US president equate to being anti-American? And I love how the evangelicals take up for the Jewish people, even though their belief system suggests that Jews are facing eternal damnation by not accepting Jesus as their savior. It seems that Jews and Muslims are on about the same rung of the ladder when it comes to "Christian" beliefs.

And I find it very ironic that Trump is so "supportive" of Israel while also going against the majority of US representatives and senators by being supportive of Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia doesn't let Jews into the country, but Trump is gung-ho on the arms deal he crafted with them.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       08-21-2019, 7:51 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
Hey wake, see how another one of your libtard candidates were Jonesin for endorsement at black churches as usual? I thought that only happened at redneck churches according to you. Problem for you and yours is the truth hurts: https://news.yahoo.com/kamala-harris...130204326.html
That's your problem, you cannot read above an elementary school level. Go back any read my original comment. I said it happens at both, dumbass.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       08-21-2019, 7:54 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
Just get rid of the unbankruptable rule and the loan problem will fix itself. Then we can focus on ways to get the public educated without relying on loans. We obviously need a public that is more educated, because no one really sees the effect of economic policy except on the most superficial level.
As long as the Federal government continues to be involved in the student loan business, I'm not sure we will see that happen. Maybe if they offer to privatize all of the loans, but then you would see the argument that college will only be affordable to the middle to upper classes (or at least the ability to finance the debt).
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       08-21-2019, 8:15 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
As long as the Federal government continues to be involved in the student loan business, I'm not sure we will see that happen. Maybe if they offer to privatize all of the loans, but then you would see the argument that college will only be affordable to the middle to upper classes (or at least the ability to finance the debt).
This is the same thing that happened with housing. Though it sounds nice, when you put money (especially guaranteed money) into a system; the prices always rise. Those who are giving the goods and services will always raise their prices to capture the available money.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-21-2019, 8:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wombat2wombat View Post
Except the facts & stats show another story. You're just reading the non stop propaganda machine. Russia failed, most people are tuning out the racist crap & the ONLY way they can beat Trump is with a bad economy. It isn't crashing & it's moronic for people wishing for it to happen so they can win an election.
Oh really? What stats would that be? Budget deficit at over $1T? $50b per month trade deficit? Medium house hold income 60k per year without socialized healthcare? What economic stats are you referring to?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       08-21-2019, 8:28 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
How are they "actively trying to destroy them"?

When did being anti-Israel's government, become equated to being anti-Semitic? Does being opposed to the sitting US president equate to being anti-American? And I love how the evangelicals take up for the Jewish people, even though their belief system suggests that Jews are facing eternal damnation by not accepting Jesus as their savior. It seems that Jews and Muslims are on about the same rung of the ladder when it comes to "Christian" beliefs.

And I find it very ironic that Trump is so "supportive" of Israel while also going against the majority of US representatives and senators by being supportive of Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia doesn't let Jews into the country, but Trump is gung-ho on the arms deal he crafted with them.
Being anti-Israels government is typically called anti Zionism. Zionism is the belief that the Jewish people have the right to self-determination. Anti-Zionism in which you are describing and that of your newly found democrat hate mongers are echoing. They are against the Jewish people self determining. That also is a tenant of the Islam faith is that the Jews are to be killed. You know that little religion that actively worked with Hitler during WW2 to help capture Jews. Matter of fact your little democrat brat pack are into the BDS movement which is lead by a muslim who does not want Israel to exist as it's own state. That is why they are trying to destroy Israel.

I love how you keep grasping straws at Christian, Jewish and Islamic faiths. You really need to be careful. I will call one of your little liberal states and tell them you are collecting straws. You may end up with a 3 to 5 year sentence in the state pen for that.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-21-2019, 9:02 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Being anti-Israels government is typically called anti Zionism
Only by idiots or people being disingenuous. It's very possible to support Israels right for self determination while opposing the government's policies.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       08-21-2019, 10:49 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
LOL -- now THAT is funny.
Yeah, remember? We conservatives joke about ourselves without melting because we don’t take ourselves too seriously.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       08-21-2019, 11:01 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
That's your problem, you cannot read above an elementary school level. Go back any read my original comment. I said it happens at both, dumbass.
Yeah and then you “fine tuned it” by lying and claiming “hillbilly churches proclaim Jesus was a gun-toting, brown man hating republican”. You just made that ish up like the village idiot that you are.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-21-2019, 12:52 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
Yeah and then you “fine tuned it” by lying and claiming “hillbilly churches proclaim Jesus was a gun-toting, brown man hating republican”. You just made that ish up like the village idiot that you are.


What happened to being able to joke about this stuff without melting down?

It’s called hyperbole. Everyone knows Jesus was a communist not a republican. “Follow me and you get life and epic amounts of free ish for eternity” sure doesn’t sound very republican to me.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       08-21-2019, 2:19 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
Yeah and then you “fine tuned it” by lying and claiming “hillbilly churches proclaim Jesus was a gun-toting, brown man hating republican”. You just made that ish up like the village idiot that you are.
I agreed that it was the black churches AND the hillbilly churches. Are you that freaking daft that you ignore I included both? Or is it you just cannot stand being wrong?
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       08-21-2019, 2:26 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Being anti-Israels government is typically called anti Zionism. Zionism is the belief that the Jewish people have the right to self-determination. Anti-Zionism in which you are describing and that of your newly found democrat hate mongers are echoing. They are against the Jewish people self determining. That also is a tenant of the Islam faith is that the Jews are to be killed. You know that little religion that actively worked with Hitler during WW2 to help capture Jews. Matter of fact your little democrat brat pack are into the BDS movement which is lead by a muslim who does not want Israel to exist as it's own state. That is why they are trying to destroy Israel.

I love how you keep grasping straws at Christian, Jewish and Islamic faiths. You really need to be careful. I will call one of your little liberal states and tell them you are collecting straws. You may end up with a 3 to 5 year sentence in the state pen for that.
Uh, no is not. Zionism has nothing to do with supporting a particular Israeli politician. Let's wait and see if you are claiming "Anti-Zionism" when Israel elects a more liberal Prime Minister.

What history books do you read? "Crap I Pull Out of My Ass to Make a Political Argument"? Hitler had much more help from Christians as opposed to this Nazi Muslim assistance you claim.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       08-21-2019, 2:35 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
This is the same thing that happened with housing. Though it sounds nice, when you put money (especially guaranteed money) into a system; the prices always rise. Those who are giving the goods and services will always raise their prices to capture the available money.
Not exactly. Lenders were overly aggressive with the ARM's. Monthly payment increased to amounts that many customers could no longer afford. If they would've locked more customers into FRM's, there would've been less defaults.
Old     (wombat2wombat)      Join Date: Sep 2018       08-21-2019, 2:57 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
What happened to being able to joke about this stuff without melting down?

It’s called hyperbole. Everyone knows Jesus was a communist not a republican. “Follow me and you get life and epic amounts of free ish for eternity” sure doesn’t sound very republican to me.
Wrong. No where does he preach soak the rich to spread the wealth. He said to shun all of it and turn all your love and attention back to god and love each other.

1 Timothy 6:17-19 ESV / 48 helpful votes

As for the rich in this present age, charge them not to be haughty, nor to set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly provides us with everything to enjoy. They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share, thus storing up treasure for themselves as a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is truly life.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-21-2019, 4:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wombat2wombat View Post
Wrong. No where does he preach soak the rich to spread the wealth.
Deuteronomy 15:7
If anyone is poor among your fellow Israelites in any of the towns of the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward them

Sounds like an edict to support wealth redistribution to me.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-21-2019, 5:27 PM Reply   
waitaminute... I thought the whole deal was to be saved not do do works? Poor folks can get to heaven, right?
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-21-2019, 5:29 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wombat2wombat View Post
Wrong. No where does he preach soak the rich to spread the wealth. He said to shun all of it and turn all your love and attention back to god and love each other.

1 Timothy 6:17-19 ESV / 48 helpful votes

As for the rich in this present age, charge them not to be haughty, nor to set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly provides us with everything to enjoy. They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share, thus storing up treasure for themselves as a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is truly life.
isn't heaven the ultimate land of medicare for all and obamaphones for everyone tho? Or will we still be rich and poor there?
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       08-22-2019, 3:00 AM Reply   
http://www.kake.com/story/40947797/p...abled-veterans
Old     (wombat2wombat)      Join Date: Sep 2018       08-22-2019, 3:43 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Oh really? What stats would that be? Budget deficit at over $1T? $50b per month trade deficit? Medium house hold income 60k per year without socialized healthcare? What economic stats are you referring to?
Go look homie, you're parroting our media, that is ALL you are going off of. Regardless of everything you mentioned, we are nowhere near economic collapse or recession. Inflation is coming that's for sure
Old     (wombat2wombat)      Join Date: Sep 2018       08-22-2019, 3:46 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Deuteronomy 15:7
If anyone is poor among your fellow Israelites in any of the towns of the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward them

Sounds like an edict to support wealth redistribution to me.
That's cause you're lacking reading. Where in any of that does it sound wealth distribution? Go read the rest of your bible, he's telling the poor not to be envious & tight fisted towards the wealthy. BECAUSE, god promises those will be punished & the meak will be in gods favor. I ain't religious, but I had a forced catholic education. You're just droning on & on about something you obviously know nothing about.
Old     (wombat2wombat)      Join Date: Sep 2018       08-22-2019, 3:47 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
isn't heaven the ultimate land of medicare for all and obamaphones for everyone tho? Or will we still be rich and poor there?
By far the dumbest thing to come out of your typing thus far. If you knew anything about what god supposedly promises you would know before that your left your finger tips how utterly moronic, obtuse it reads & is simply plain fabrication
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       08-22-2019, 5:16 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Only by idiots or people being disingenuous. It's very possible to support Israels right for self determination while opposing the government's policies.
The governments policies are protecting the Jewish people from being destroyed by all the countries that immediately surround them who have either A) have actaully attacked them for being Jews or B) have sworn to wipe them off the earth.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       08-22-2019, 5:20 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
Uh, no is not. Zionism has nothing to do with supporting a particular Israeli politician. Let's wait and see if you are claiming "Anti-Zionism" when Israel elects a more liberal Prime Minister.

What history books do you read? "Crap I Pull Out of My Ass to Make a Political Argument"? Hitler had much more help from Christians as opposed to this Nazi Muslim assistance you claim.
Try watching the history channel and reading on the topic. The catholic church turned a blind eye by the only reports and even that is 2 sides of a pan cake considering there were millions of christians killed by the Nazi's as well.

Further information: Nazi persecution of the Catholic Church in Poland
Further information: Nazi crimes against ethnic Poles
Priest wearing round-rimmed glasses
Polish Franciscan Maximillian Kolbe died at Auschwitz.

According to Norman Davies, the Nazi terror was "much fiercer and more protracted in Poland than anywhere in Europe."[91] Polish Catholic victims of the Third Reich numbered in the millions. Nazi ideology viewed ethnic Poles—the mainly Catholic ethnic majority of Poland—as subhuman. After their 1939 invasion of Poland, the Nazis instituted a policy of murdering (or suppressing) the ethnic-Polish elite (including Catholic religious leaders).[92] The Nazi plan for Poland was the nation's destruction, which necessitated attacking the Polish Church, (particularly in areas annexed by Germany).[93] About the brief period of military control from 1 September to 25 October 1939, Davies wrote: "According to one source, 714 mass executions were carried out, and 6,376 people, mainly Catholics, were shot. Others put the death toll in one town alone at 20,000. It was a taste of things to come."[94]

In Polish areas annexed by Nazi Germany, severe persecution began. The Nazis systematically dismantled the church, arresting its leaders, exiling its clergy and closing its churches, monasteries and convents. Germanization of the annexed regions began in December 1939, with deportations of men, women and children.[95] According to Richard J. Evans, in the Reichsgau Wartheland "numerous clergy, monks, diocesan administrators and officials of the Church were arrested, deported to the General Government, taken off to a concentration camp in the Reich, or simply shot. Altogether some 1700 Polish priests ended up at Dachau: half of them did not survive their imprisonment."[96] Among the clergy who died at Dachau were many of the 108 Polish Martyrs of World War II.[97]

Hans Frank said in 1940, "Poles may have only one master—a German. Two masters cannot exist side by side, and this is why all members of the Polish intelligentsia must be killed."[92] Thomas J. Craughwell wrote that from 1939 to 1945, an estimated 3,000 members of the Polish clergy (18 percent) were murdered; of these, 1,992 died in concentration camps.[98] According to the Encyclopædia Britannica, 1,811 Polish priests died in Nazi concentration camps.[99] Among the persecuted resisters was Irena Sendlerowa, head of the children's section of Żegota, who placed more than 2,500 Jewish children in convents, orphanages, schools, hospitals, and homes. Captured by the Gestapo in 1943, Sendlerowa was crippled by torture.[100]
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       08-22-2019, 5:23 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Deuteronomy 15:7
If anyone is poor among your fellow Israelites in any of the towns of the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward them

Sounds like an edict to support wealth redistribution to me.
You don't even know what you are talking about so there is that.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       08-22-2019, 5:24 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
waitaminute... I thought the whole deal was to be saved not do do works? Poor folks can get to heaven, right?
as you too, you don't know what you are talking about as well.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       08-22-2019, 5:26 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
isn't heaven the ultimate land of medicare for all and obamaphones for everyone tho? Or will we still be rich and poor there?
Good news is when you die, we will either bury you or burn you. People will either piss on your grave or they won't, but at the end of the day that will be the story of you. Don't waist it because your life clearly means nothing.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       08-22-2019, 5:37 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wombat2wombat View Post
That's cause you're lacking reading. Where in any of that does it sound wealth distribution? Go read the rest of your bible, he's telling the poor not to be envious & tight fisted towards the wealthy.
You have some serious reading comprehension problems. You are "waisting" our time with your BS.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       08-22-2019, 5:50 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
Not exactly. Lenders were overly aggressive with the ARM's. Monthly payment increased to amounts that many customers could no longer afford. If they would've locked more customers into FRM's, there would've been less defaults.
I possibly agree, however the standards were laxed in order to allow poorer people access to those loan vehicles. In states like california, the goal was just to get in a house and keep it for 2 years then flip it. It was a pyramid scheme. I knew it was over when a 20 year old receptionist and her boy friend were able to qualify and buy the display home for a housing development that cost over $500,000 at the time and they did not even have a job history and made under $20 an hour.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-22-2019, 7:20 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by womble2womble View Post
That's cause you're lacking reading. Where in any of that does it sound wealth distribution? Go read the rest of your bible, he's telling the poor not to be envious & tight fisted towards the wealthy. BECAUSE, god promises those will be punished & the meak will be in gods favor. I ain't religious, but I had a forced catholic education. You're just droning on & on about something you obviously know nothing about.
Ha ha ha, that's excellent thank you. What excellent advice god gives, hey you poor people, don't be tight fisted towards those rich guys. Trump logic. I can see why build the wall and lock her up resonates so well with the base, they are idiots.
Old     (wombat2wombat)      Join Date: Sep 2018       08-22-2019, 8:22 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Ha ha ha, that's excellent thank you. What excellent advice god gives, hey you poor people, don't be tight fisted towards those rich guys. Trump logic. I can see why build the wall and lock her up resonates so well with the base, they are idiots.
You are an idiot. Because you suffer from wealth envy and a retarded belief the rich should give it all away that must be gods message. I bet you give exactly sh*t fifty of your income to help the poor. The entire reason not to clench your fists towards the rich is envy. To let god judge them. I'm not arguing you're right or wrong on that matter, but you clearly don't know a f****ng thing about god, the bible or what any of it means. Being pious means ditching envy, can you understand those basics, Ralph? If you morons are going to try & invoke god into these arguments about the poor at least know what the hell you're talking about or leave god out cause you don't know W T F you're talking about or what his message was.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       08-22-2019, 8:28 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wombat2wombat View Post
You are an idiot. Because you suffer from wealth envy and a retarded belief the rich should give it all away that must be gods message. I bet you give exactly sh*t fifty of your income to help the poor. The entire reason not to clench your fists towards the rich is envy. To let god judge them. I'm not arguing you're right or wrong on that matter, but you clearly don't know a f****ng thing about god, the bible or what any of it means. Being pious means ditching envy, can you understand those basics, Ralph? If you morons are going to try & invoke god into these arguments about the poor at least know what the hell you're talking about or leave god out cause you don't know W T F you're talking about or what his message was.
Now, now, now.....don't get so worked up. It is hard to reason with people who follow a political system based rich vs poor, white vs dark. They might start calling you a racists because you don't live this way.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-22-2019, 8:33 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wombat2wombat View Post
You are an idiot. Because you suffer from wealth envy and a retarded belief the rich should give it all away that must be gods message. I bet you give exactly sh*t fifty of your income to help the poor. The entire reason not to clench your fists towards the rich is envy. To let god judge them. I'm not arguing you're right or wrong on that matter, but you clearly don't know a f****ng thing about god, the bible or what any of it means. Being pious means ditching envy, can you understand those basics, Ralph? If you morons are going to try & invoke god into these arguments about the poor at least know what the hell you're talking about or leave god out cause you don't know W T F you're talking about or what his message was.
Lol, triggered.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-22-2019, 8:37 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Now, now, now.....don't get so worked up. It is hard to reason with people who follow a political system based rich vs poor, white vs dark. They might start calling you a racists because you don't live this way.
Doesn't seem to be any nuance with the right winger WW crew. It's quite possible to believe in a free market system which rewards individual difference and results while still being bounded at the top and the bottom.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       08-22-2019, 8:46 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Doesn't seem to be any nuance with the right winger WW crew. It's quite possible to believe in a free market system which rewards individual difference and results while still being bounded at the top and the bottom.
Which is still different than race and class based politics........


Since you seem to be a student of economic systems and history of the world. Has socialism and communism ever created a system that did not have rich and poor? Why do they always fail? In our system, because there are rich people does that keep a poor person from getting rich?
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-22-2019, 8:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Which is still different than race and class based politics........


Since you seem to be a student of economic systems and history of the world. Has socialism and communism ever created a system that did not have rich and poor? Why do they always fail? In our system, because there are rich people does that keep a poor person from getting rich?
No, never. Vast majority are poor with a few fat cats at the top. Personally I think the failure is caused by the killing of the expression of individual differences and the passion to succeed.

It's why the vast majority of "the left" are not calling for communism or socialism but democratic socialism. I don't think it's possible to have a communist or socialist system without it being authoritarian.
Old     (wombat2wombat)      Join Date: Sep 2018       08-22-2019, 9:10 AM Reply   
Democratic socialism is nothing more than socialists taking your money by voting in lieu of authoritarian. The idiots always expose themselves why they to put lipstick on the pig that is socialism and call it something else.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       08-22-2019, 9:10 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
No, never. Vast majority are poor with a few fat cats at the top. Personally I think the failure is caused by the killing of the expression of individual differences and the passion to succeed.

It's why the vast majority of "the left" are not calling for communism or socialism but democratic socialism. I don't think it's possible to have a communist or socialist system without it being authoritarian.
I agree with your first sentence.

I absolutely disagree with your second statement. The call for redistribution of wealth is socialism. We have a certain amount of it already and you have a lot of it in the democrat controlled cities of the US. What has that done for the lower class of those population? The diffirential of wealth is actually increasing. You also have a growing number of young people who are choosing to not participate in society and doing their fair share. Socialism in theory only works when you have all parties willing to do what they can for the common good. That is why it always breaks down. Greater and greater portions of the public are not willing to work harder while others do not. I don't care how you dress it up. Authoritarian or by the vote (democratic). The wealth end up in the same place. The class differences get worse and it always has to go authoritarian at some point because that is the last bastion of control before it sinks.

http://www.aei.org/publication/class...tic-socialist/

Classic Thomas Sowell from 2012 on the fallacy of redistribution, some lessons for today’s democratic socialists

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...rities/566528/

Democratic Socialism Threatens Minorities
Old     (wombat2wombat)      Join Date: Sep 2018       08-22-2019, 9:10 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Lol, triggered.
Translation: I'm Ralph & just talk out my ass about stuff I know nothing about and when corrected call it triggered.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-22-2019, 10:35 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
I absolutely disagree with your second statement. The call for redistribution of wealth is socialism.
That's one aspect of socialism but socialism has a much larger implication than just wealth redistribution it includes collective ownership and dissolution of property rights. NOBODY in the american left is calling for state ownership of everything. That's just a right wing talking point.

Democratic socialism is a capitalist system which has some collective aspects to provide health, education and social security services. These services are funded through taxation. You have democratic socialism now, all we are talking about is the degree, how much taxation, how much collective services. To say that the democrats want socialism or communism is 100% untrue but it sure makes redneck nincompoops hate them.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-22-2019, 10:36 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by womble2womble View Post
Translation: I'm Ralph & just talk out my ass about stuff I know nothing about and when corrected call it triggered.
Quiet down, the adults are talking.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       08-22-2019, 11:06 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
That's one aspect of socialism but socialism has a much larger implication than just wealth redistribution it includes collective ownership and dissolution of property rights. NOBODY in the american left is calling for state ownership of everything. That's just a right wing talking point.

Democratic socialism is a capitalist system which has some collective aspects to provide health, education and social security services. These services are funded through taxation. You have democratic socialism now, all we are talking about is the degree, how much taxation, how much collective services. To say that the democrats want socialism or communism is 100% untrue but it sure makes redneck nincompoops hate them.
while that is certainly true, the countries that typically have these style of governments also have great protections to their markets and the people do not have very lavish lifestyles because there is little wealth generation across the board. If they allowed the US access to their markets we would crush them. They routinely pilfer off of our markets and inventions and bring them into their markets piece meal while we put in great amounts into R&D and recoupe the costs locally. If you are suggesting we limit the amount money in our system to provide social services, we certain could do that but the world would suffer and we certainly would lose our balance of power to the chinese who uses slave labor and state controlled industry.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-22-2019, 11:35 AM Reply   
Depends what you are optimizing for I guess, have you seen the 2019 World happiness report?
Finland, Norway, Demark, Iceland, all countries with a much higher tax rate and social safety net than the US.
Attached Images
 
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       08-22-2019, 12:05 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Depends what you are optimizing for I guess, have you seen the 2019 World happiness report?
Finland, Norway, Demark, Iceland, all countries with a much higher tax rate and social safety net than the US.
I don't know how you really measure those things. Almost all those nations have only a few narrow industries and are tiny compared to the US. They also have the luxury of not completing against the US worker. You ironically just picked out what I usually laugh at liberals for and that they are almost exclusively all white mono cultured countries.

For bonus points, let's go back to 1942 and ask the top people on that list where they wanted to live and their happiness factors.

My friend in germany seems happy enough. He only has to ride his bicycle 10 miles each way and get on a train after that to get to work. Can't afford to own a car over there nor a proper house, but he is happy. His son was made to be a painter as his career choice at the age of 17 because he did not do great in school. Nothing like being 17 and your life is decided for you because of the way you approached your childhood. Happiness is relative I guess.

Last edited by DeltaHoosier; 08-22-2019 at 12:08 PM.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       08-22-2019, 12:12 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Depends what you are optimizing for I guess, have you seen the 2019 World happiness report?
Finland, Norway, Demark, Iceland, all countries with a much higher tax rate and social safety net than the US.
I think what many of the American and possibly the world leftist don't really get. The society they want requires them to do a lot of hard work and they don't get much say about it. What they think they are getting is they get to sit at home playing xbox while someone else pays their bills. If they want to go to school they think they can take what they want and the other workers will pay for it.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-22-2019, 12:52 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
I think what many of the American and possibly the world leftist don't really get. The society they want requires them to do a lot of hard work and they don't get much say about it. What they think they are getting is they get to sit at home playing xbox while someone else pays their bills. If they want to go to school they think they can take what they want and the other workers will pay for it.
And yet the freedom to make life choices are higher in all these "socialist" countries than the US. Go figure.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       08-22-2019, 12:55 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Try watching the history channel and reading on the topic. The catholic church turned a blind eye by the only reports and even that is 2 sides of a pan cake considering there were millions of christians killed by the Nazi's as well.

Further information: Nazi persecution of the Catholic Church in Poland
Further information: Nazi crimes against ethnic Poles
Priest wearing round-rimmed glasses
Polish Franciscan Maximillian Kolbe died at Auschwitz.

According to Norman Davies, the Nazi terror was "much fiercer and more protracted in Poland than anywhere in Europe."[91] Polish Catholic victims of the Third Reich numbered in the millions. Nazi ideology viewed ethnic Poles—the mainly Catholic ethnic majority of Poland—as subhuman. After their 1939 invasion of Poland, the Nazis instituted a policy of murdering (or suppressing) the ethnic-Polish elite (including Catholic religious leaders).[92] The Nazi plan for Poland was the nation's destruction, which necessitated attacking the Polish Church, (particularly in areas annexed by Germany).[93] About the brief period of military control from 1 September to 25 October 1939, Davies wrote: "According to one source, 714 mass executions were carried out, and 6,376 people, mainly Catholics, were shot. Others put the death toll in one town alone at 20,000. It was a taste of things to come."[94]

In Polish areas annexed by Nazi Germany, severe persecution began. The Nazis systematically dismantled the church, arresting its leaders, exiling its clergy and closing its churches, monasteries and convents. Germanization of the annexed regions began in December 1939, with deportations of men, women and children.[95] According to Richard J. Evans, in the Reichsgau Wartheland "numerous clergy, monks, diocesan administrators and officials of the Church were arrested, deported to the General Government, taken off to a concentration camp in the Reich, or simply shot. Altogether some 1700 Polish priests ended up at Dachau: half of them did not survive their imprisonment."[96] Among the clergy who died at Dachau were many of the 108 Polish Martyrs of World War II.[97]

Hans Frank said in 1940, "Poles may have only one master—a German. Two masters cannot exist side by side, and this is why all members of the Polish intelligentsia must be killed."[92] Thomas J. Craughwell wrote that from 1939 to 1945, an estimated 3,000 members of the Polish clergy (18 percent) were murdered; of these, 1,992 died in concentration camps.[98] According to the Encyclopædia Britannica, 1,811 Polish priests died in Nazi concentration camps.[99] Among the persecuted resisters was Irena Sendlerowa, head of the children's section of Żegota, who placed more than 2,500 Jewish children in convents, orphanages, schools, hospitals, and homes. Captured by the Gestapo in 1943, Sendlerowa was crippled by torture.[100]
I see no mention of the Muslims assisting the Nazis in all of this. Damn dude, stay on topic.

Last edited by wake77; 08-22-2019 at 12:57 PM.
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